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Posted to dev@texera.apache.org by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org> on 2025/10/17 05:09:29 UTC
[I] disallowing sorting on binary type. [texera]
carloea2 opened a new issue, #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922
### Task Summary
Add a frontend message explaining sorting on binary attributes is not supported and mention brief options such as extracting sortable features from them beforehand.
### Priority
P2 – Medium
### Task Type
- [ ] Code Implementation
- [ ] Documentation
- [ ] Refactor / Cleanup
- [ ] Testing / QA
- [ ] DevOps / Deployment
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3449437334
After reviewing other platforms, I agree we should enable sorting on binary attributes, KNIME supports it, and it should be a small change on our side.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aglinxinyuan (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aglinxinyuan commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414079208
See the following workflow:
<img width="796" height="796" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/da66ed3f-37fd-4b7b-a303-ee6d15fd1be9" />
<img width="1380" height="985" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/c62d57fb-1344-4274-b89b-ce9ab513bbf1" />
Binary is simply the type used to decode the bytes. For example, if I have the characters '1', '2', and '3', and decode them using the binary type, I get the bytes 31, 32, and 33 in hex. However, I should still be able to sort them and later decode them as strings if needed.
My point is that the type used to decode the data should not affect the ability to sort the data, since we might choose a different decoding method later.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414270154
Yes, I think that is also unexpected for some users, and it may cause confusion for real users, example;
An user has a CSV with a column containing scientific notation numbers mixed with normal floats, if in my python code I sort with pandas default, then pandas will cast automatically to float, and the sort will be right.
In texera, now, when reading my CSV, then sorting by that column, the sort will be as strings resulting in a totally different output as in my python code, and since there is no hint in the UI that the column is string the user will have a bad experience.
//// Extra question
In Python, bytes are sequences of unsigned integers 0..255, and binary sequences compare lexicographically by those numeric byte values.
On the JVM (Java/Scala), byte/Byte is signed 8-bit two’s-complement (-128..127).
Is not this another source of problems when sorting bytes? I know similar things can apply to strings but managing bytes is more complex which means for users needing bytes sorting we should provide more Params on how to cast and manage the bytes, right?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aglinxinyuan (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aglinxinyuan commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414152431
> I want to confirm if the next behavior is what an avg user will expect, if I input 1, 2, 10 then the sort result is 1, 10, 2, is this desired for the avg user, will this not lead to confusion or even errors if the user do not notice they are using binary type?
>
> <img width="1666" height="905" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/b674dfa7-ee77-41a5-af59-b855b22b7608" />
User should know they are using binary type. We don't want to drop the support of something because user might make mistake. The same claim is also true for int and string. For example, what if user input 1, 2, 10 as string? Is the sorting result 1,10,2 unexpected?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aicam (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aicam commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3452663458
> In this case, I suggest we support sorting on binary attributes. [@aglinxinyuan](https://github.com/aglinxinyuan) [@aicam](https://github.com/aicam) [@carloea2](https://github.com/carloea2) please share your thoughts so that we can finish this issue.
I agree
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "chenlica (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
chenlica commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3416501598
Each perspective has its own merits. To help us decide a design, can we evaluate existing systems and see their design decision?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3433922148
Knime allows binary sorting:
<img width="1919" height="1020" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/fbfb2c84-fc74-457d-91ca-3ae829a0621d" />
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "Yicong-Huang (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
Yicong-Huang closed issue #3922: disallowing sorting on binary type
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aglinxinyuan (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aglinxinyuan commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414282841
All the potential issues you described have nothing to do with sorting — they’re more about how to propagate the type correctly before sorting it.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "chenlica (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
chenlica commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3434940404
How about RapidMiner?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aglinxinyuan (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aglinxinyuan commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3413918283
Why do we disallow sort for binary?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aicam (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aicam commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3416425170
My understanding is both of the perspectives are right:
- @carloea2 is correct because sorting binary and bytes are meaningless and user may end up using the operator in wrong way
- @aglinxinyuan is correct because we should not intervene in user experience and give them full flexibility
my suggestion is when user select an attribute that is binary, we show them a small warning like this:
``` The selected attribute is binary type and will be sorted as bytes ```
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414055395
What do you mean with sorting 1,2,3 as binary? are not they sorted as long or other types?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "chenlica (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
chenlica commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3449428960
In this case, I suggest we support sorting on binary attributes. @aglinxinyuan @aicam @carloea2 please share your thoughts so that we can finish this issue.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3449369042
Hello good night,
I think RapidMiner does not have binary array data type: https://docs.rapidminer.com/9.8/studio/getting-started/important-terms.html#data-types
Also once the tables are loaded they do not restrict the sort based on any data type.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3413979549
In the PR of https://github.com/apache/texera/pull/3774 we were talking about sorting on binary attrs. The decision was based on the fact that the order may be different for every user, what do you think?
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "aglinxinyuan (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
aglinxinyuan commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414050824
I do have the need to sort binary. For example, I can have number 1, 2, 3, and I want to sort them as binary. We don't need to limit the possibility of use cases.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414329628
You can't say they have nothing to do with sorting if in the end they affect the sorting, right?
I think we will not reach an agreement, if @chenlica agrees with you then I will close this issue and add binary sorting for the scala version.
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Re: [I] disallowing sorting on binary type [texera]
Posted by "carloea2 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.
carloea2 commented on issue #3922:
URL: https://github.com/apache/texera/issues/3922#issuecomment-3414143285
I want to confirm if the next behavior is what an avg user will expect, if I input 1, 2, 10 then the sort result is 1, 10, 2, is this desired for the avg user, will this not lead to confusion or even errors if the user do not notice they are using binary type?
<img width="1666" height="905" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/b674dfa7-ee77-41a5-af59-b855b22b7608" />
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