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Posted to user@vcl.apache.org by Dmitri Chebotarov <dc...@gmu.edu> on 2012/05/08 02:11:20 UTC
Re: Graduation
Hi,
May I ask what are the benefits of "graduation" for VCL?
How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?
I apologize if these are trivial questions.
Thanks.
--
Dmitri Chebotarov
Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers & Messaging
223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
Phone: (703) 993-6175
Fax: (703) 993-3404
On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:
>
> On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:
>
> > I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes
>
> Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…
>
> There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...
>
> --kevan
Re: Graduation
Posted by Aaron Peeler <fa...@ncsu.edu>.
My thoughts exactly. Thanks to each of you for your advice and mentoring.
Best Regards,
Aaron
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Josh Thompson <jo...@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
>>>>
>>>> I too think its time and support graduation to TLP. Kevan also represents my intention wrt to involvement.
>>>
>>> It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the project and make sure that there's a smooth transition. It's not clear to me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill. If so, great. If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.
>>
>> Thanks Alan.
>>
>> I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather not have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've mentored. Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.
>>
>> --kevan
>
> Kevan,
>
> I don't consider it shirking your responsibility to not continue on the PMC.
>
> Alan, Kevan, and Matt,
>
> We really appreciate your help to our project and community as our
> mentors. I doubt you had any idea your commitment to us as mentors
> would be for as long as it has been. Thanks for all the time and
> effort you have put into mentoring us in the Apache Way! It is
> totally understandable if you want to cut strings with us as soon as
> we graduate. We would appreciate any input you have in the few months
> after we graduate but understand if you want to limit that commitment.
>
> Josh
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Re: Graduation
Posted by Josh Thompson <jo...@ncsu.edu>.
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
>>>
>>> I too think its time and support graduation to TLP. Kevan also represents my intention wrt to involvement.
>>
>> It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the project and make sure that there's a smooth transition. It's not clear to me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill. If so, great. If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.
>
> Thanks Alan.
>
> I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather not have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've mentored. Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.
>
> --kevan
Kevan,
I don't consider it shirking your responsibility to not continue on the PMC.
Alan, Kevan, and Matt,
We really appreciate your help to our project and community as our
mentors. I doubt you had any idea your commitment to us as mentors
would be for as long as it has been. Thanks for all the time and
effort you have put into mentoring us in the Apache Way! It is
totally understandable if you want to cut strings with us as soon as
we graduate. We would appreciate any input you have in the few months
after we graduate but understand if you want to limit that commitment.
Josh
Re: Graduation
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
>>
>> I too think its time and support graduation to TLP. Kevan also represents my intention wrt to involvement.
>
> It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the project and make sure that there's a smooth transition. It's not clear to me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill. If so, great. If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.
Thanks Alan.
I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather not have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've mentored. Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.
--kevan
Re: Graduation
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>
>>
>> To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
>
> I too think its time and support graduation to TLP. Kevan also represents my intention wrt to involvement.
It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the project and make sure that there's a smooth transition. It's not clear to me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill. If so, great. If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.
Regards,
Alan
Re: Graduation
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
>
> To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
I too think its time and support graduation to TLP. Kevan also represents my intention wrt to involvement.
Matt Hogstrom
matt@hogstrom.org
A Day Without Nuclear Fusion Is a Day Without Sunshine
On May 8, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
Re: Graduation
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On May 8, 2012, at 10:33 AM, Andy Kurth wrote:
> Graduating will not and should not change the way VCL is used or how
> the community operates. Upon successful graduation, there are some
> administrative tasks that need to be done but the day-to-day community
> activity shouldn't change. I think this is the main point for the
> whole process. Once the community demonstrates that it is diverse,
> viable, and aligned with the ASF philosophy and policies, it graduates
> and continues to operate in the same manner.
Well put Aaron and Andy.
Process-wise -- currently the Apache Incubator PMC is performing oversight of the VCL project. After graduation as a Top Level Project, the VCL PMC will be in charge of this oversight. This reduces some administrative bureaucracy, but also increases the importance of the oversight provided by the VCL PMC (responsibilities they are already fulfilling). Incubation is not permanent and must end with either graduation or retirement. VCL is quite old by Incubation standards, but we've reached a good place.
To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.
--kevan
Re: Graduation
Posted by Andy Kurth <an...@ncsu.edu>.
Good explanation Aaron.
Regarding the benefits of graduating -- I don't know if there are any
tangible benefits but in my opinion there are some intangible
benefits:
- The Apache brand is pretty well-known and prestigious. They don't
accept just any old open-source project as an official project, let
alone as a podling. We will be in very good company with the other
ASF projects.
- Graduating and becoming a top-level project will help promote Apache
VCL. I'm hopeful that VCL adoption and the growth of our development
community will accelerate.
- We don't have to pack up and find a new home elsewhere :)
Graduating will not and should not change the way VCL is used or how
the community operates. Upon successful graduation, there are some
administrative tasks that need to be done but the day-to-day community
activity shouldn't change. I think this is the main point for the
whole process. Once the community demonstrates that it is diverse,
viable, and aligned with the ASF philosophy and policies, it graduates
and continues to operate in the same manner.
-Andy
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Aaron Peeler <fa...@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> Hi Dmitri,
>
> No apologies necessary. This is a good and important question.
>
> The graduation is the process in which a incubator project becomes a
> Top Level Project (TLP). The graduation means that a project has shown
> that it (as a community) understands the Apache Software Foundation's
> core principles.
> Also known as "The Apache Way".
> While this is not a complete official list, the principles include:
> * collaborative software development
> * commercial-friendly license
> * respective, honest, technical-based interaction
> * faithful implementation of standards
> * security as a mandatory feature
> See this for more info on how ASF works
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
>
> My slightly longer answer.
>
> Within Apache Software Foundation there is a entry path in which a
> project/community shows that it, (as a whole) can be self-sustaining
> and operates under The Apache Way.
>
> This entry path is through what is called the incubator and this is
> our current state.
>
> In incubator status, we as a community, learn the principles (The
> Apache way) by doing. With the assistance of our mentors, such as
> Kevan, Alan, and Matt. We learn the core principles mentioned above,
> how to grow a healthy and diverse community, how to properly cut
> releases through Apache software Foundation, handle intelectual
> property through the community contributions, and learn the principle
> of "meritocracy" (government by merit) through the process of inviting
> community members who have contributed and are interested to become
> committers and be part of the project governing process, etc.
>
> Once we have reached the incubator milestones, we can then proceed to
> graduate. Through the graduation process an incubator project either
> becomes a subproject of another ASF project or a top level project.
>
> If we fail to do these tasks or if the project fizzles out, then the
> incubator project retires from Apache Software foundation and is not
> supported by ASF.
>
> Hope this helps and others please feel free to comment.
> Most of this is my summation from:
>
> How ASF works and short history:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
> Incubator Graduation:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> What is Graduation?
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#introduction
>
> Roles of incubator
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
>
>
> Aaron
>
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Dmitri Chebotarov <dc...@gmu.edu> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> May I ask what are the benefits of "graduation" for VCL?
>> How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?
>>
>> I apologize if these are trivial questions.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> --
>> Dmitri Chebotarov
>> Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers & Messaging
>> 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
>> Phone: (703) 993-6175
>> Fax: (703) 993-3404
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:
>>>
>>> > I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes
>>>
>>> Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…
>>>
>>> There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...
>>>
>>> --kevan
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Peeler
> Program Manager
> Virtual Computing Lab
> NC State University
>
> All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
> are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
> Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Re: Graduation
Posted by Aaron Peeler <fa...@ncsu.edu>.
Hi Dmitri,
No apologies necessary. This is a good and important question.
The graduation is the process in which a incubator project becomes a
Top Level Project (TLP). The graduation means that a project has shown
that it (as a community) understands the Apache Software Foundation's
core principles.
Also known as "The Apache Way".
While this is not a complete official list, the principles include:
* collaborative software development
* commercial-friendly license
* respective, honest, technical-based interaction
* faithful implementation of standards
* security as a mandatory feature
See this for more info on how ASF works
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
My slightly longer answer.
Within Apache Software Foundation there is a entry path in which a
project/community shows that it, (as a whole) can be self-sustaining
and operates under The Apache Way.
This entry path is through what is called the incubator and this is
our current state.
In incubator status, we as a community, learn the principles (The
Apache way) by doing. With the assistance of our mentors, such as
Kevan, Alan, and Matt. We learn the core principles mentioned above,
how to grow a healthy and diverse community, how to properly cut
releases through Apache software Foundation, handle intelectual
property through the community contributions, and learn the principle
of "meritocracy" (government by merit) through the process of inviting
community members who have contributed and are interested to become
committers and be part of the project governing process, etc.
Once we have reached the incubator milestones, we can then proceed to
graduate. Through the graduation process an incubator project either
becomes a subproject of another ASF project or a top level project.
If we fail to do these tasks or if the project fizzles out, then the
incubator project retires from Apache Software foundation and is not
supported by ASF.
Hope this helps and others please feel free to comment.
Most of this is my summation from:
How ASF works and short history:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
Incubator Graduation:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
What is Graduation?
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#introduction
Roles of incubator
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
Aaron
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Dmitri Chebotarov <dc...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> May I ask what are the benefits of "graduation" for VCL?
> How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?
>
> I apologize if these are trivial questions.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Dmitri Chebotarov
> Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers & Messaging
> 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
> Phone: (703) 993-6175
> Fax: (703) 993-3404
>
>
> On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:
>>
>> > I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes
>>
>> Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…
>>
>> There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...
>>
>> --kevan
>
>
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Re: Graduation
Posted by Aaron Peeler <fa...@ncsu.edu>.
Hi Dmitri,
No apologies necessary. This is a good and important question.
The graduation is the process in which a incubator project becomes a
Top Level Project (TLP). The graduation means that a project has shown
that it (as a community) understands the Apache Software Foundation's
core principles.
Also known as "The Apache Way".
While this is not a complete official list, the principles include:
* collaborative software development
* commercial-friendly license
* respective, honest, technical-based interaction
* faithful implementation of standards
* security as a mandatory feature
See this for more info on how ASF works
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
My slightly longer answer.
Within Apache Software Foundation there is a entry path in which a
project/community shows that it, (as a whole) can be self-sustaining
and operates under The Apache Way.
This entry path is through what is called the incubator and this is
our current state.
In incubator status, we as a community, learn the principles (The
Apache way) by doing. With the assistance of our mentors, such as
Kevan, Alan, and Matt. We learn the core principles mentioned above,
how to grow a healthy and diverse community, how to properly cut
releases through Apache software Foundation, handle intelectual
property through the community contributions, and learn the principle
of "meritocracy" (government by merit) through the process of inviting
community members who have contributed and are interested to become
committers and be part of the project governing process, etc.
Once we have reached the incubator milestones, we can then proceed to
graduate. Through the graduation process an incubator project either
becomes a subproject of another ASF project or a top level project.
If we fail to do these tasks or if the project fizzles out, then the
incubator project retires from Apache Software foundation and is not
supported by ASF.
Hope this helps and others please feel free to comment.
Most of this is my summation from:
How ASF works and short history:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
Incubator Graduation:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
What is Graduation?
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#introduction
Roles of incubator
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
Aaron
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Dmitri Chebotarov <dc...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> May I ask what are the benefits of "graduation" for VCL?
> How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?
>
> I apologize if these are trivial questions.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Dmitri Chebotarov
> Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers & Messaging
> 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
> Phone: (703) 993-6175
> Fax: (703) 993-3404
>
>
> On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:
>>
>> > I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes
>>
>> Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…
>>
>> There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...
>>
>> --kevan
>
>
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.