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Posted to user@guacamole.apache.org by Support <ad...@e-blokos.com> on 2020/01/23 12:17:00 UTC
Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Does anybody know if there is a chance
that guacamole will work with Network Vector Rendering (NVR) from S2?
it looks like a very promising technology for clientless secure remote
browser.
https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/
David
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Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Support <ad...@e-blokos.com>.
On 1/26/2020 3:50 AM, Nick Couchman wrote:
>
> Sounds great What your advice, what is the best for Linux, XenApp
> or VmWare?
>
>
> Don't use Flash. It's being discontinued in the Chrome engine (which
> powers Chrome plus Microsoft's new version of Edge) in December 2020,
> and I wouldn't waste a lot of time setting up a solution to try to
> accelerate a technology that's going away in 11 months.
>
> But, I understand that sometimes you must support it, and I don't know
> that I can offer any advice as to what is best. It depends on what
> you're trying to do, what is supported by the Flash content you're
> trying to view, etc. I always try to go the Linux route, first, and
> I'm wary of both Citrix (seems to have an on-again-off-again
> relationship with Open Source technology) and VMware
> ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), but, again, it depends. Without knowing exactly
> what you're doing and what you're trying to support, I can't really
> offer much.
>
> -Nick
We developed a 12 years project in Flash and for don't want to reinvent
the wheel again and again. More, JS does not cover very important
functions used in Actionscript (remote SharedObject, NetGroup, Multicast
etc). Also, Adobe is working since 5 years to migrate Flash API into
Webassembly. There are other promising project like Ruffle.
Yes, I think Citrix is the way to go.
David
--
E-BLOKOS
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Nick Couchman <vn...@apache.org>.
> Sounds great What your advice, what is the best for Linux, XenApp or
> VmWare?
>
Don't use Flash. It's being discontinued in the Chrome engine (which
powers Chrome plus Microsoft's new version of Edge) in December 2020, and I
wouldn't waste a lot of time setting up a solution to try to accelerate a
technology that's going away in 11 months.
But, I understand that sometimes you must support it, and I don't know that
I can offer any advice as to what is best. It depends on what you're
trying to do, what is supported by the Flash content you're trying to view,
etc. I always try to go the Linux route, first, and I'm wary of both
Citrix (seems to have an on-again-off-again relationship with Open Source
technology) and VMware ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), but, again, it depends. Without
knowing exactly what you're doing and what you're trying to support, I
can't really offer much.
-Nick
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Support <ad...@e-blokos.com>.
On 1/24/2020 7:04 AM, Nick Couchman wrote:
>
> ok understood, but how a clientless isolated remote browser can
> for example work in case of
> an application that grab audio/video hardware input and broadcast
> the stream to a server?
>
>
> Guacamole uses browser's native audio support and tunnels the audio
> connection from the remote system over its own protocol, rendering it
> on the browser side. In RDP this happens using the native audio
> channels built in to RDP - guacd translates between those and the
> Guacamole protocol - and in VNC it is handled by connecting the
> Guacamole protocol audio channels to a Pulse audio endpoint.
>
> > Is guacamole is ok for Flash redirection?
>
> Guacamole should redirect Flash content perfectly fine. It does not
> contain any built-in support for accelerating the Flash content. I
> know XenApp and VMware both support that, though I'm not sure exactly
> how they "accelerate" it. But, given the proper hardware for guacd and
> a sufficient connection, Guacamole should handle it fine.
>
> -Nick
Sounds great What your advice, what is the best for Linux, XenApp or VmWare?
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Nick Couchman <vn...@apache.org>.
> ok understood, but how a clientless isolated remote browser can for
> example work in case of
> an application that grab audio/video hardware input and broadcast the
> stream to a server?
>
Guacamole uses browser's native audio support and tunnels the audio
connection from the remote system over its own protocol, rendering it on
the browser side. In RDP this happens using the native audio channels
built in to RDP - guacd translates between those and the Guacamole protocol
- and in VNC it is handled by connecting the Guacamole protocol audio
channels to a Pulse audio endpoint.
> Is guacamole is ok for Flash redirection?
Guacamole should redirect Flash content perfectly fine. It does not
contain any built-in support for accelerating the Flash content. I know
XenApp and VMware both support that, though I'm not sure exactly how they
"accelerate" it. But, given the proper hardware for guacd and a sufficient
connection, Guacamole should handle it fine.
-Nick
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Support <ad...@e-blokos.com>.
> Well, my knowledge about guacamole is also 5mn ;)
> I'm trying to be more clear concerning what I'm looking for (maybe
> it does not exist?)
> - control a web browser inside a browser in HTML5 which works
> exactly as the current browser used by the current client natively
> and locally,
> with hardware and plugin/extension capabilities. This concept is
> to avoid clients to have device compatibilities and technology
> issues, and facilitate
> the web or non web application development and distribution
> without to have an IT client installation and update nightmare.
>
>
> If you're trying to use Guacamole as a sort of alternative to NVR,
> this should be possible - you can set up some sort of remote system
> with RDP or VNC that runs nothing but a web browser, and users can log
> into that system via Guacamole, and use the browser on the remote
> system. I actually considered using this at a company I worked for
> previously as a way of isolating internal company systems from the
> Internet. I never quite went that route, and have since moved on to a
> different location, but it makes a very interesting use case for a
> sort of Internet quarantine area. You do have to consider how it may
> impact multimedia utilization and how robust an experience that will
> be - Guacamole is certainly capable of handling that type of traffic,
> but, depending on number of users and amount of multimedia data, may
> need substantial resources to process that.
>
> If you're trying to use Guacamole behind NVR, then I'm not sure if it
> will work or how well. I would imagine it would be fine, but hard to
> say for sure without trying it out.
>
> Hopefully that helps or gets at the questions you were asking - feel
> free to respond with more specific questions and we'll see what we can
> figure out!
>
> -Nick
ok understood, but how a clientless isolated remote browser can for
example work in case of
an application that grab audio/video hardware input and broadcast the
stream to a server?
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Nick Couchman <vn...@apache.org>.
>
> Well, my knowledge about guacamole is also 5mn ;)
> I'm trying to be more clear concerning what I'm looking for (maybe it does
> not exist?)
> - control a web browser inside a browser in HTML5 which works exactly as
> the current browser used by the current client natively and locally,
> with hardware and plugin/extension capabilities. This concept is to avoid
> clients to have device compatibilities and technology issues, and facilitate
> the web or non web application development and distribution without to
> have an IT client installation and update nightmare.
>
>
If you're trying to use Guacamole as a sort of alternative to NVR, this
should be possible - you can set up some sort of remote system with RDP or
VNC that runs nothing but a web browser, and users can log into that system
via Guacamole, and use the browser on the remote system. I actually
considered using this at a company I worked for previously as a way of
isolating internal company systems from the Internet. I never quite went
that route, and have since moved on to a different location, but it makes a
very interesting use case for a sort of Internet quarantine area. You do
have to consider how it may impact multimedia utilization and how robust an
experience that will be - Guacamole is certainly capable of handling that
type of traffic, but, depending on number of users and amount of multimedia
data, may need substantial resources to process that.
If you're trying to use Guacamole behind NVR, then I'm not sure if it will
work or how well. I would imagine it would be fine, but hard to say for
sure without trying it out.
Hopefully that helps or gets at the questions you were asking - feel free
to respond with more specific questions and we'll see what we can figure
out!
-Nick
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Support <ad...@e-blokos.com>.
On 1/23/2020 5:31 AM, Nick Couchman wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:17 AM Support <admin@e-blokos.com
> <ma...@e-blokos.com>> wrote:
>
> Does anybody know if there is a chance
> that guacamole will work with Network Vector Rendering (NVR) from S2?
> it looks like a very promising technology for clientless secure
> remote
> browser.
> https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/
>
>
> Based on a quick look at that website, it looks like they are
> essentially rendering the web page for you on the remote side, then
> pushing images of the pages over to your browser. This seems very
> similar to what many people have requested in supporting the HTTP(S)
> protocol within Guacamole, and something we have decided not to
> implement, because it is more along the lines of (reverse) proxy than
> of a remote desktop client.
>
> When you say "Guacamole will work with NVR," it's hard to know exactly
> what you mean - you could certainly put Guacamole alongside NVR or
> implement a custom Guacamole-based web application that integrates
> with it, but the question is a little vague. If you mean, can you
> access Guacamole through NVR such that the web page that NVR is
> rendering and pushing is the Guacamole web application, that would be
> something you'd have to take up with the NVR support folks, as it's
> going to depend on whether they support it or not. I don't know of
> any reason that it would not work, but, my familiarity with NVR is
> just about to approach five minutes :-).
>
> -Nick
Well, my knowledge about guacamole is also 5mn ;)
I'm trying to be more clear concerning what I'm looking for (maybe it
does not exist?)
- control a web browser inside a browser in HTML5 which works exactly as
the current browser used by the current client natively and locally,
with hardware and plugin/extension capabilities. This concept is to
avoid clients to have device compatibilities and technology issues, and
facilitate
the web or non web application development and distribution without to
have an IT client installation and update nightmare.
David
Re: Network Vector Rendering (NVR)
Posted by Nick Couchman <vn...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:17 AM Support <ad...@e-blokos.com> wrote:
> Does anybody know if there is a chance
> that guacamole will work with Network Vector Rendering (NVR) from S2?
> it looks like a very promising technology for clientless secure remote
> browser.
> https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/
>
>
Based on a quick look at that website, it looks like they are essentially
rendering the web page for you on the remote side, then pushing images of
the pages over to your browser. This seems very similar to what many
people have requested in supporting the HTTP(S) protocol within Guacamole,
and something we have decided not to implement, because it is more along
the lines of (reverse) proxy than of a remote desktop client.
When you say "Guacamole will work with NVR," it's hard to know exactly what
you mean - you could certainly put Guacamole alongside NVR or implement a
custom Guacamole-based web application that integrates with it, but the
question is a little vague. If you mean, can you access Guacamole through
NVR such that the web page that NVR is rendering and pushing is the
Guacamole web application, that would be something you'd have to take up
with the NVR support folks, as it's going to depend on whether they support
it or not. I don't know of any reason that it would not work, but, my
familiarity with NVR is just about to approach five minutes :-).
-Nick