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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@apache.org> on 2005/10/09 10:13:50 UTC

Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

On Sunday 09 October 2005 01:43, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> I'm working on the classloader
> part so that a block can come with its own classes.

Curious to know what this is... or if it is a matter of lack of understanding 
of the OSGi classloader.

Is there any additional classloading needs that can't be satisfied with the 
OSGi classloader mechanism?? Would indeed be interesting to know for the 
Felix development as well.


Cheers
Niclas

Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Sunday 09 October 2005 19:33, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> So the answer to your question: We need this classloading only to load
> classes from within 2.2 blocks. 3.0 will make this 2.2 classloading stuff
> obsolete (hehe, my favorite word these days).

Ok. Cool. Got worried there for a while :o)

Thanks
Niclas

Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le 9 oct. 05, à 18:33, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> 
>> ...So what do others think about this roadmap?...
> 
> 
> Would you mind re-posting this roadmap question with a more prominent 
> subject line?
> I'm afraid people will miss it due to the more or less obscure topic 
> being discussed here ;-)

no, seperate thread started :-)

-- 
Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

                                        web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 9 oct. 05, à 18:33, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :

> ...So what do others think about this roadmap?...

Would you mind re-posting this roadmap question with a more prominent 
subject line?
I'm afraid people will miss it due to the more or less obscure topic 
being discussed here ;-)

-Bertrand


Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Poetz schrieb:
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> 
>>Shouldn't we make these decisions on this list in the public? Not every
>>committer was at the GT and took part in the discussions.
> 
> 
> Definitly! Therefore my note in my previous mail (
> * I/we know, it's unofficial so far as it hasn't been discussed on the mailing 
> list. ).
> 
Ah, it was below the marker for your signature ("--") so my mail reader
ignored this. So, sorry for the noise!

Carsten


-- 
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/

Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Shouldn't we make these decisions on this list in the public? Not every
> committer was at the GT and took part in the discussions.

Definitly! Therefore my note in my previous mail (
* I/we know, it's unofficial so far as it hasn't been discussed on the mailing 
list. ).

So what do others think about this roadmap?

 >>- Cocoon 2.2 will not use OSGi but will support blocks as far as possible:
 >>   - blocks protocol (= sitemap blocks)
 >>   - a block gets its own component manager that contains all local components
 >>     and gets the block component managers of all wired blocks as parent.
 >>   - we use M2 as build and deployment tool (needs some special M2 plug-ins
 >>     for the deployment part)
 >>   - blocks are *not* spread over different directories during deployment
 >>   - a block can contain classes in [block]/BLOCK-INF/classes that are added
 >>     to the context classloader
 >>
 >>   --> this means that everything, that real blocks promise, works except the
 >>       shielding of Java classes.
 >>
 >>- Cocoon 3.0 will use OSGi


-- 
Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

                                        web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------

	

	
		
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Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Shouldn't we make these decisions on this list in the public? Not every
committer was at the GT and took part in the discussions.

Carsten

Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 
>>On Sunday 09 October 2005 01:43, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm working on the classloader
>>>part so that a block can come with its own classes.
>>
>>
>>Curious to know what this is... or if it is a matter of lack of understanding 
>>of the OSGi classloader.
>>
>>Is there any additional classloading needs that can't be satisfied with the 
>>OSGi classloader mechanism?? Would indeed be interesting to know for the 
>>Felix development as well.
> 
> 
> At the GT we had some kind of agreement, at least after Daniels presentation on 
> blocks, that we go for a two-step roadmap to get 'real' blocks*:
> 
> - Cocoon 2.2 will not use OSGi but will support blocks as far as possible:
>    - blocks protocol (= sitemap blocks)
>    - a block gets its own component manager that contains all local components
>      and gets the block component managers of all wired blocks as parent.
>    - we use M2 as build and deployment tool (needs some special M2 plug-ins
>      for the deployment part)
>    - blocks are *not* spread over different directories during deployment
>    - a block can contain classes in [block]/BLOCK-INF/classes that are added
>      to the context classloader
> 
>    --> this means that everything, that real blocks promise, works except the
>        shielding of Java classes.
> 
> - Cocoon 3.0 will use OSGi
> 
> So the answer to your question: We need this classloading only to load classes 
> from within 2.2 blocks. 3.0 will make this 2.2 classloading stuff obsolete 
> (hehe, my favorite word these days).
> 


-- 
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/

Re: Classloading in blocks [was; Binaries for next releases]

Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Sunday 09 October 2005 01:43, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> 
>>I'm working on the classloader
>>part so that a block can come with its own classes.
> 
> 
> Curious to know what this is... or if it is a matter of lack of understanding 
> of the OSGi classloader.
> 
> Is there any additional classloading needs that can't be satisfied with the 
> OSGi classloader mechanism?? Would indeed be interesting to know for the 
> Felix development as well.

At the GT we had some kind of agreement, at least after Daniels presentation on 
blocks, that we go for a two-step roadmap to get 'real' blocks*:

- Cocoon 2.2 will not use OSGi but will support blocks as far as possible:
   - blocks protocol (= sitemap blocks)
   - a block gets its own component manager that contains all local components
     and gets the block component managers of all wired blocks as parent.
   - we use M2 as build and deployment tool (needs some special M2 plug-ins
     for the deployment part)
   - blocks are *not* spread over different directories during deployment
   - a block can contain classes in [block]/BLOCK-INF/classes that are added
     to the context classloader

   --> this means that everything, that real blocks promise, works except the
       shielding of Java classes.

- Cocoon 3.0 will use OSGi

So the answer to your question: We need this classloading only to load classes 
from within 2.2 blocks. 3.0 will make this 2.2 classloading stuff obsolete 
(hehe, my favorite word these days).

-- 
Reinhard


* I/we know, it's unofficial so far as it hasn't been discussed on the mailing list.

	

	
		
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