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Posted to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> on 2004/05/11 17:29:39 UTC
Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Hi everyone
I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
it feels like a dump right now. The FOP team will most likely not be
able to maintain the project.
I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
thing.
Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
right?
Jeremias Maerki
Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
On 12.05.2004 15:39:18 Christian Geisert wrote:
<snip/>
> There are no other active committers?
I don't think so. Prove me wrong please!!!
<snip/>
> Well the other option is to go for FOP as toplevel project.
As Glen also mentioned this seems to be one option. Brainstorming: Batik
could be parked inside the XML Graphics umbrella until it becomes active
again at which time PMC representation would be readdressed. After all,
Batik is very important to us and having it in our vicinity could prove
useful even if we can't really maintain it.
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
There are no other active committers?
> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> it feels like a dump right now. The FOP team will most likely not be
> able to maintain the project.
Very likely.
> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> thing.
>
> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
Well the other option is to go for FOP as toplevel project.
Christian
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Glen Mazza wrote:
> I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
> participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
> Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
> concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
> months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
> are resolved.
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
Rude words. I've just checked my various folders but can't find anything.
Thomas - Have I dropped the ball on something? If so (or even if not
:>), could you let me know what your concerns are?
Glen - Thanks for pointing this out.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Glen Mazza wrote:
> I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
> participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
> Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
> concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
> months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
> are resolved.
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
Rude words. I've just checked my various folders but can't find anything.
Thomas - Have I dropped the ball on something? If so (or even if not
:>), could you let me know what your concerns are?
Glen - Thanks for pointing this out.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
Glen Mazza wrote:
> I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
> participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
> Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
> concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
> months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
> are resolved.
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
>
Thanks for bringing this to my (our?) attention. It would be good to for
us to find out what Thomas needs clarification on, as well.
I haven't spent much time researching current Batik issues, and--not
knowing much about the issues--haven't thought fit to comment too much
on the subject up 'til now.
> I think we should do this in an orderly fashion--take care of Xerces
> first, then Xalan, then FOP will be the third project to leave the
> nest. When it is our turn, we'll have a vote internally on the FOP-DEV
> list whether to form (a) our own TLP or (b) an XML Graphics one that
> will assume a future union with the Batik project.
>
> Glen
Although I like the thought of 'just do it(tm)"... it definitely makes
sense to get our ducks in a row before we proceed. The litmus (for me)
to move from xml.apache to xml graphics would be: will it decrease the
time for FOP 1.0 to be released? If so, the let's proceed. If not, then
there's no rush (IMHO).
Thanks for the clarity and the heads up, Glen. It's much appreciated.
Web Maestro Clay
Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
>> Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea,
>> Thomas,
>> when and if you can get back to the project?
>
>
> If we cannot keep Batik going - then leave it in XML while we sort it
> out.
>
I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
are resolved.
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
>>
>> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>> thing.
>>
>> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>> right?
>
>
> I'm a big one for "just do it" :>.
>
> I think the key thing is decide on Batik. If Batik looks too
> difficult, then let's just drop it for now. I'm sure it can be added
> into the XML Graphics TLP at such a time as it makes sense.
> Alternatively - if Vincent and whoever else is comfortable - then lets
> just move it in!
>
> Then it's just a matter of filling out PMC names, having all those
> people vote in a chair and presenting the resolution to the board.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
I think we should do this in an orderly fashion--take care of Xerces
first, then Xalan, then FOP will be the third project to leave the
nest. When it is our turn, we'll have a vote internally on the FOP-DEV
list whether to form (a) our own TLP or (b) an XML Graphics one that
will assume a future union with the Batik project.
Glen
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
>> Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea,
>> Thomas,
>> when and if you can get back to the project?
>
>
> If we cannot keep Batik going - then leave it in XML while we sort it
> out.
>
I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
are resolved.
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
>>
>> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>> thing.
>>
>> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>> right?
>
>
> I'm a big one for "just do it" :>.
>
> I think the key thing is decide on Batik. If Batik looks too
> difficult, then let's just drop it for now. I'm sure it can be added
> into the XML Graphics TLP at such a time as it makes sense.
> Alternatively - if Vincent and whoever else is comfortable - then lets
> just move it in!
>
> Then it's just a matter of filling out PMC names, having all those
> people vote in a chair and presenting the resolution to the board.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
I think we should do this in an orderly fashion--take care of Xerces
first, then Xalan, then FOP will be the third project to leave the
nest. When it is our turn, we'll have a vote internally on the FOP-DEV
list whether to form (a) our own TLP or (b) an XML Graphics one that
will assume a future union with the Batik project.
Glen
Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
>> Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea,
>> Thomas,
>> when and if you can get back to the project?
>
>
> If we cannot keep Batik going - then leave it in XML while we sort it
> out.
>
I'm assuming that both of you are aware that Thomas has suspended his
participation in Batik[1] until he gets some clarifications to the
Apache 2.0 License. Berin, is someone in the process of answering those
concerns? He's been the most active committer for the past several
months--so we should probably wait on Batik's status until these issues
are resolved.
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=batik-users&m=108366487432766&w=2
>>
>> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>> thing.
>>
>> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>> right?
>
>
> I'm a big one for "just do it" :>.
>
> I think the key thing is decide on Batik. If Batik looks too
> difficult, then let's just drop it for now. I'm sure it can be added
> into the XML Graphics TLP at such a time as it makes sense.
> Alternatively - if Vincent and whoever else is comfortable - then lets
> just move it in!
>
> Then it's just a matter of filling out PMC names, having all those
> people vote in a chair and presenting the resolution to the board.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
I think we should do this in an orderly fashion--take care of Xerces
first, then Xalan, then FOP will be the third project to leave the
nest. When it is our turn, we'll have a vote internally on the FOP-DEV
list whether to form (a) our own TLP or (b) an XML Graphics one that
will assume a future union with the Batik project.
Glen
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> it feels like a dump right now. The FOP team will most likely not be
> able to maintain the project.
If we cannot keep Batik going - then leave it in XML while we sort it out.
>
> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> thing.
>
> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
> right?
I'm a big one for "just do it" :>.
I think the key thing is decide on Batik. If Batik looks too difficult,
then let's just drop it for now. I'm sure it can be added into the XML
Graphics TLP at such a time as it makes sense. Alternatively - if
Vincent and whoever else is comfortable - then lets just move it in!
Then it's just a matter of filling out PMC names, having all those
people vote in a chair and presenting the resolution to the board.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
<much good stuff deleted>
> No changes for developers and users. Only minor changes for committers:
> Releases need to be approved by the PMC. Website remain where they are.
>
> You see. There are no big changes. The board simply wants the XML
> project to reestablish proper oversight over the projects. That's why we
> need to break down the XML project into smaller parts. The XML project
That was a great summary of the potential impacts.
On the subject of Batik - I'd be interested in the Batik committers
chiming in as to whether they would be happy to move under Graphics or
stay under XML. Either is doable, and neither is "wrong".
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Vincent
On 13.05.2004 10:14:11 Vincent Hardy wrote:
> Hi Jeremias,
>
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> >We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> >PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> >in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
> >right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> >when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> >help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> >it feels like a dump right now.
> >
> Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
> I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
> :-), but there are only so many hours in a day.
I know how you feel. I'm in a similar position. I'm simply trying to
deal with the facts as they present themselves.
> I hope someone else can
> step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>
> >The FOP team will most likely not be
> >able to maintain the project.
> >
> >
> Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>
> >I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> >means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> >two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> >thing.
> >
> >
> Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
> Batik are going to be pretty limited.
No, I don't think so, but Batik needs active committers to stay alive.
> >Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
> >all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
> >right?
> >
> >
> What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
> (apart from finding volunteers)?
The board resolution is pretty much finished, we just need to fill in
names. When the resolution is approved by us and passes in the board
meeting, we need to write a charter. We could already start with the
charter now. That's pretty much it.
> What will people need to do: set up a
> new project repositiory?
No. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. If the XML
Graphics PMC is realized we might one day create an additional
repository for joint operations.
> set-up/moderate mailing lists?
Nothing changes. We might choose to create an additional mailing list
for common discussions (much like general@xml.apache.org).
> And what do you
> expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
> and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
> etc..?
No changes for developers and users. Only minor changes for committers:
Releases need to be approved by the PMC. Website remain where they are.
You see. There are no big changes. The board simply wants the XML
project to reestablish proper oversight over the projects. That's why we
need to break down the XML project into smaller parts. The XML project
transforms into a federation of XML-related projects at the ASF,
basically a link collection, but also providing the old infrastructure
so we don't disrupt our "customer's" view of our projects. If a project
desires to become a full top-level project, that will be no problem, but
that's not the issue here.
--
Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Vincent
On 13.05.2004 10:14:11 Vincent Hardy wrote:
> Hi Jeremias,
>
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> >We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> >PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> >in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
> >right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> >when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> >help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> >it feels like a dump right now.
> >
> Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
> I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
> :-), but there are only so many hours in a day.
I know how you feel. I'm in a similar position. I'm simply trying to
deal with the facts as they present themselves.
> I hope someone else can
> step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>
> >The FOP team will most likely not be
> >able to maintain the project.
> >
> >
> Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>
> >I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> >means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> >two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> >thing.
> >
> >
> Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
> Batik are going to be pretty limited.
No, I don't think so, but Batik needs active committers to stay alive.
> >Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
> >all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
> >right?
> >
> >
> What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
> (apart from finding volunteers)?
The board resolution is pretty much finished, we just need to fill in
names. When the resolution is approved by us and passes in the board
meeting, we need to write a charter. We could already start with the
charter now. That's pretty much it.
> What will people need to do: set up a
> new project repositiory?
No. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. If the XML
Graphics PMC is realized we might one day create an additional
repository for joint operations.
> set-up/moderate mailing lists?
Nothing changes. We might choose to create an additional mailing list
for common discussions (much like general@xml.apache.org).
> And what do you
> expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
> and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
> etc..?
No changes for developers and users. Only minor changes for committers:
Releases need to be approved by the PMC. Website remain where they are.
You see. There are no big changes. The board simply wants the XML
project to reestablish proper oversight over the projects. That's why we
need to break down the XML project into smaller parts. The XML project
transforms into a federation of XML-related projects at the ASF,
basically a link collection, but also providing the old infrastructure
so we don't disrupt our "customer's" view of our projects. If a project
desires to become a full top-level project, that will be no problem, but
that's not the issue here.
--
Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>
Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Vincent
On 13.05.2004 10:14:11 Vincent Hardy wrote:
> Hi Jeremias,
>
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> >We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> >PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> >in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
> >right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> >when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> >help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> >it feels like a dump right now.
> >
> Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
> I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
> :-), but there are only so many hours in a day.
I know how you feel. I'm in a similar position. I'm simply trying to
deal with the facts as they present themselves.
> I hope someone else can
> step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>
> >The FOP team will most likely not be
> >able to maintain the project.
> >
> >
> Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>
> >I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> >means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> >two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> >thing.
> >
> >
> Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
> Batik are going to be pretty limited.
No, I don't think so, but Batik needs active committers to stay alive.
> >Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
> >all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
> >right?
> >
> >
> What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
> (apart from finding volunteers)?
The board resolution is pretty much finished, we just need to fill in
names. When the resolution is approved by us and passes in the board
meeting, we need to write a charter. We could already start with the
charter now. That's pretty much it.
> What will people need to do: set up a
> new project repositiory?
No. We will still use the XML project's infrastructure. If the XML
Graphics PMC is realized we might one day create an additional
repository for joint operations.
> set-up/moderate mailing lists?
Nothing changes. We might choose to create an additional mailing list
for common discussions (much like general@xml.apache.org).
> And what do you
> expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
> and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
> etc..?
No changes for developers and users. Only minor changes for committers:
Releases need to be approved by the PMC. Website remain where they are.
You see. There are no big changes. The board simply wants the XML
project to reestablish proper oversight over the projects. That's why we
need to break down the XML project into smaller parts. The XML project
transforms into a federation of XML-related projects at the ASF,
basically a link collection, but also providing the old infrastructure
so we don't disrupt our "customer's" view of our projects. If a project
desires to become a full top-level project, that will be no problem, but
that's not the issue here.
--
Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Jeremias,
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
>We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
>PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
>in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
>when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
>help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
>it feels like a dump right now.
>
Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
:-), but there are only so many hours in a day. I hope someone else can
step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>The FOP team will most likely not be
>able to maintain the project.
>
>
Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>thing.
>
>
Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
Batik are going to be pretty limited.
>Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>right?
>
>
What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
(apart from finding volunteers)? What will people need to do: set up a
new project repositiory? set-up/moderate mailing lists? And what do you
expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
etc..?
Thanks,
Vincent.
>Jeremias Maerki
>
>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
> We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
> PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
> in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
> help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
> it feels like a dump right now. The FOP team will most likely not be
> able to maintain the project.
If we cannot keep Batik going - then leave it in XML while we sort it out.
>
> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
> means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
> thing.
>
> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
> right?
I'm a big one for "just do it" :>.
I think the key thing is decide on Batik. If Batik looks too difficult,
then let's just drop it for now. I'm sure it can be added into the XML
Graphics TLP at such a time as it makes sense. Alternatively - if
Vincent and whoever else is comfortable - then lets just move it in!
Then it's just a matter of filling out PMC names, having all those
people vote in a chair and presenting the resolution to the board.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Jeremias,
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
>We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
>PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
>in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
>when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
>help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
>it feels like a dump right now.
>
Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
:-), but there are only so many hours in a day. I hope someone else can
step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>The FOP team will most likely not be
>able to maintain the project.
>
>
Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>thing.
>
>
Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
Batik are going to be pretty limited.
>Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>right?
>
>
What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
(apart from finding volunteers)? What will people need to do: set up a
new project repositiory? set-up/moderate mailing lists? And what do you
expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
etc..?
Thanks,
Vincent.
>Jeremias Maerki
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Jeremias,
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML Graphics idea a bit.
>We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the candidates for the new
>PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously, Batik is practically
>in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are practically unavailable
>right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
>when and if you can get back to the project? I know Vincent will try to
>help out on the transition of Batik into the XML Graphics umbrella, but
>it feels like a dump right now.
>
Sorry to see you interpret things this way. I'll do my best to help out.
I have spent enough of my life on Batik that I would not just dump it
:-), but there are only so many hours in a day. I hope someone else can
step up and represent Batik on the XML Graphics PMC.
>The FOP team will most likely not be
>able to maintain the project.
>
>
Yes, I agree we need someone who is more dedicated to Batik.
>I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as possible even if it
>means having more FOP people on it than Batik people. But having only
>two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems not to be a good
>thing.
>
>
Do people on the PMC need to be commiters? If so, then the options for
Batik are going to be pretty limited.
>Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas right now. After
>all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project sooner or later,
>right?
>
>
What do you think needs to happen for the formation of the new PMC
(apart from finding volunteers)? What will people need to do: set up a
new project repositiory? set-up/moderate mailing lists? And what do you
expect the changes to be for FOP and Batik, for commiters, developers
and users? For example, will there be web site changes, release changes
etc..?
Thanks,
Vincent.
>Jeremias Maerki
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
PMC = Project Management Committee
This body oversees the project and reports to the ASF's board of
directors.
And don't worry. Nobody intends to remove anything from Batik.
On 13.05.2004 09:23:07 Ricky Panaglucci wrote:
> hello,
> care to explain what PMC stands for?
>
> ricky
>
> ps: whatever, please keep batiks css engine
Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Glen Mazza wrote:
> Jeremias, the Batik project has been ignoring FOP's
> emails on this topic for so long that I think it's
> time that we give this up. My efforts on this issue
> were second only to yours, but at this stage I'm not
> that interested anymore in working with that project.
> I wish them well.
Then go with a FOP project and integrate Batik if and when it makes
sense :>.
>
> In the meantime, the decisions made by the Xerces and
> Xalan teams will decide whether or not the XML PMC
> will remain or be disbanded. (Perhaps best for FOP
> not to influence this one way or the other, but just a
> guess on my part here.) Once it's determined that the
> latter will actually occur, I am very much looking
> forward to our new FOP TLP. Until then, things are
> also fine working under the XML PMC.
The XML PMC will probably remain - but only as a holder for commons (+
potentially Batik) and anything else that comes up (potentially also as
a kick start for new XML ideas). I suspect we are also going to need
some people to look after web sites etc. I think it will be much cut down.
Having said that - I *really* want to move this along, so I'd encourage
you guys to make the break :>.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Jeremias, the Batik project has been ignoring FOP's
emails on this topic for so long that I think it's
time that we give this up. My efforts on this issue
were second only to yours, but at this stage I'm not
that interested anymore in working with that project.
I wish them well.
In the meantime, the decisions made by the Xerces and
Xalan teams will decide whether or not the XML PMC
will remain or be disbanded. (Perhaps best for FOP
not to influence this one way or the other, but just a
guess on my part here.) Once it's determined that the
latter will actually occur, I am very much looking
forward to our new FOP TLP. Until then, things are
also fine working under the XML PMC.
Thanks,
Glen
--- Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch> wrote:
>
> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas
> right now. After
> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project
> sooner or later,
> right?
>
> Jeremias Maerki
>
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Re: Batik and FOP - how to proceed
Posted by Ricky Panaglucci <hi...@yahoo.co.uk>.
hello,
care to explain what PMC stands for?
ricky
ps: whatever, please keep batiks css engine
--- Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>
wrote: > Hi everyone
>
> I'd like to make another attempt to push the XML
> Graphics idea a bit.
> We're at a stage where we'd have to gather the
> candidates for the new
> PMC. That's where it gets complicated. Obviously,
> Batik is practically
> in a stand-still. Both Vincent and Thomas are
> practically unavailable
> right now. How do we handle the Batik side for new
> PMC? Any idea, Thomas,
> when and if you can get back to the project? I know
> Vincent will try to
> help out on the transition of Batik into the XML
> Graphics umbrella, but
> it feels like a dump right now. The FOP team will
> most likely not be
> able to maintain the project.
>
> I'd personally have as many people on the new PMC as
> possible even if it
> means having more FOP people on it than Batik
> people. But having only
> two (or less) on the PMC from the Batik side seems
> not to be a good
> thing.
>
> Any ideas how to proceed? Opinions? I'm out of ideas
> right now. After
> all, we have to finish reorganizing the XML project
> sooner or later,
> right?
>
> Jeremias Maerki
>
>
>
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