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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> on 2013/06/05 13:36:04 UTC
AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
I'm a little confused by recent threads on the upgrade logic. But I'd
like to ensure that this area is adequately tested and that we
understand how it behaves so we can better support users. So here are
some questions to flesh out the way it will work with AOO 4.0.
1) When an AOO 3.4.1 user profile customizations configured, what
happens when they install AOO 4.0?
2) If anything is not migrated are users given any warning, so this is
not a surprise? (Maybe we need something in the Release Notes at
least?)
3) Does this include custom spell checking word list? Old Extensions?
4) What happens to the old AOO 3.4.1 install directories? Is it
removed? Does that include extensions? other files? Is it totally
clean?
5) If extensions are not migrated, is there anything that helps the
user to know what extensions they need to reinstall? If not
automated, maybe we need something in the Release Notes to explain how
a user can make this list *before* they install AOO 4.0?
6) Does any of the above change if they are upgrading from AOO 3.4.0
or OOo 3.3.0 or earlier to AOO 4.0?
7) Once AOO 4.0 is installed, what happens if a user tries to install
an extension that has not updated addons.xcu? Is there an obvious
error message, directing the user to contact the extension developers?
8) Same for incompatible C++ extensions. Is the user given a
meaningful message that directs them to the extension author? Or will
they be confused and end up asking us for help?
9) Is there any easy way users can tell which extensions on the
Repository are compatible with AOO 4.0?
10) Are there any test extensions that QA can use to test the positive
and negative cases of #7 and #8 above?
11) Are there any other edge cases we need to think about? Maybe
future-proofing? What happens to a future incompatible AOO 5.0
extension when installed on AOO 4.0?
I'm happy to update the Release Notes if the developers can clarify
the expected behaviors here.
Thanks!
-Rob
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Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 5 June 2013 13:36, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm a little confused by recent threads on the upgrade logic. But I'd
> like to ensure that this area is adequately tested and that we
> understand how it behaves so we can better support users. So here are
> some questions to flesh out the way it will work with AOO 4.0.
>
> 1) When an AOO 3.4.1 user profile customizations configured, what
> happens when they install AOO 4.0?
>
> 2) If anything is not migrated are users given any warning, so this is
> not a surprise? (Maybe we need something in the Release Notes at
> least?)
>
> 3) Does this include custom spell checking word list? Old Extensions?
>
> 4) What happens to the old AOO 3.4.1 install directories? Is it
> removed? Does that include extensions? other files? Is it totally
> clean?
>
> 5) If extensions are not migrated, is there anything that helps the
> user to know what extensions they need to reinstall? If not
> automated, maybe we need something in the Release Notes to explain how
> a user can make this list *before* they install AOO 4.0?
>
> 6) Does any of the above change if they are upgrading from AOO 3.4.0
> or OOo 3.3.0 or earlier to AOO 4.0?
>
> 7) Once AOO 4.0 is installed, what happens if a user tries to install
> an extension that has not updated addons.xcu? Is there an obvious
> error message, directing the user to contact the extension developers?
>
> 8) Same for incompatible C++ extensions. Is the user given a
> meaningful message that directs them to the extension author? Or will
> they be confused and end up asking us for help?
>
> 9) Is there any easy way users can tell which extensions on the
> Repository are compatible with AOO 4.0?
>
> 10) Are there any test extensions that QA can use to test the positive
> and negative cases of #7 and #8 above?
>
> 11) Are there any other edge cases we need to think about? Maybe
> future-proofing? What happens to a future incompatible AOO 5.0
> extension when installed on AOO 4.0?
>
Good question, and a good idea to get it all in one thread.
How about downgrading 4.0 -> 3.4.1 when a user e.g. finds out an important
extension does not work in 4.0
rgds
jan I.
>
> I'm happy to update the Release Notes if the developers can clarify
> the expected behaviors here.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Rob
>
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>
>
Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by Roberto Galoppini <ro...@gmail.com>.
2013/6/7 Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>:
> On 05/06/2013 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> Is there any facility in the upgrade wizard to put some additional
>> text, to warn the user of what will happen and what they need to do,
>> so we can avoid problems? For example, what if we had a link to a web
>> page or wiki page where we explain? For example, the upgrade dialog
>> could say:
>>
>> "You currently have 3 extensions installed (A, B and C). These will
>> need to be reinstalled after the upgrade completes. Most extensions
>> are available from http://extensions.openoffice.org. More information
>> is here..."
>
>
> This seems a rather good solution, able to address the major concerns people
> have voiced here.
If this is something we care about we might give it a try to include
the necessary changes on the AOOE site. What I'm thinking about is to
manage OpenOffice 4 installations running on computers with OpenOffice
3 on board by informing end-users that the Extensions won't be
migrated but that at the address
http://extensions.openoffice.org/upgrade/400/[id-list] they will find
compatibility info, where [id-list] is the list of installed
Extensions.
Such page should be able to display all available info for those
Extensions, and more important versions compatible with AOO4. We'll
need to loop in Extensions' authors making easy for them to provide
such information.
How do you like that?
Roberto
> At least we would warn people before they notice the
> problem, and when they can still abort the installation. The "More
> information" page would ideally be a wiki page that can grow with user
> feedback, so that a conservative user may want to look at it a few days
> later and see if the extensions he's using have been updated.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
>
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Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 05/06/2013 Rob Weir wrote:
> Is there any facility in the upgrade wizard to put some additional
> text, to warn the user of what will happen and what they need to do,
> so we can avoid problems? For example, what if we had a link to a web
> page or wiki page where we explain? For example, the upgrade dialog
> could say:
>
> "You currently have 3 extensions installed (A, B and C). These will
> need to be reinstalled after the upgrade completes. Most extensions
> are available from http://extensions.openoffice.org. More information
> is here..."
This seems a rather good solution, able to address the major concerns
people have voiced here. At least we would warn people before they
notice the problem, and when they can still abort the installation. The
"More information" page would ideally be a wiki page that can grow with
user feedback, so that a conservative user may want to look at it a few
days later and see if the extensions he's using have been updated.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/5/13 2:57 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> here is what I know about some of the questions.
>>
>> On 05.06.2013 13:36, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> I'm a little confused by recent threads on the upgrade logic. But I'd
>>> like to ensure that this area is adequately tested and that we
>>> understand how it behaves so we can better support users. So here are
>>> some questions to flesh out the way it will work with AOO 4.0.
>>>
>>> 1) When an AOO 3.4.1 user profile customizations configured, what
>>> happens when they install AOO 4.0?
>>
>> For AOO 4.0 a new user profile will be created.
>> Currently (actual status of our code), nothing from an existing AOO
>> 3.4.x (or OOo 3.x) user profile will be migrated to the new AOO 4.0 user
>> profile.
>>
>> If we decide to solve issue 122397 we can decide what part of an
>> existing AOO 3.4.x resp. OOo 3.x user profile is migrated.
>>
>>>
>>> 2) If anything is not migrated are users given any warning, so this is
>>> not a surprise? (Maybe we need something in the Release Notes at
>>> least?)
>>>
>>
>> No warning is given to the user.
>>
>>> 3) Does this include custom spell checking word list? Old Extensions?
>>
>> I think the question is meant in context of question 1 and 2.
>> Thus, again nothing is currently migrated.
>> Via solving issue 122397 we can decide which extensions are migrated by
>> using a white list and a black list.
>>
>> Important note 1:
>> I have found code to migrate extensions - service
>> com.sun.star.migration.Extensions. But I currently do not know, if it
>> works or not. But, I know that in the migration configuration data a
>> white list and a black list for extensions can be specified.
>>
>> Important note 2:
>> Regarding word lists or word books we currently have for the migration
>> from OOo 2.x user profile to AOO 3.4.x/OOo 3.x a service named
>> com.sun.star.migration.Wordbooks. But I do not know, if it has something
>> to do with word lists/word books.
>>
>>>
>>> 4) What happens to the old AOO 3.4.1 install directories? Is it
>>> removed? Does that include extensions? other files? Is it totally
>>> clean?
>>
>> As far as I had experienced - I need to double-check it -, during
>> installation the user is asked, if the installation directory of a
>> former found version should be removed or not. The extensions which are
>> located inside the installation directory would be removed, too.
>> As far as I know the user profile of the former version will survive.
>> This needs to be doubled-checked, too.
>>
>>>
>>> 5) If extensions are not migrated, is there anything that helps the
>>> user to know what extensions they need to reinstall? If not
>>> automated, maybe we need something in the Release Notes to explain how
>>> a user can make this list *before* they install AOO 4.0?
>>>
>>
>> As far as I know, there exist no code to support the user in such a
>> scenario.
>>
>>> 6) Does any of the above change if they are upgrading from AOO 3.4.0
>>> or OOo 3.3.0 or earlier to AOO 4.0?
>>>
>>
>> Depending on what we decide for issue 122397.
>>
>>
>> Best regards, Oliver.
>>
>>> 7) Once AOO 4.0 is installed, what happens if a user tries to install
>>> an extension that has not updated addons.xcu? Is there an obvious
>>> error message, directing the user to contact the extension developers?
>
> well Ariel can explain in detail what is implemented but as far as I
> know the user get no error message and the toolbar is simply not viewed.
> That was the reason why we recommend to use a max-version dependency in
> general. Even if API don't change, implementation changes can trigger a
> different behaviour and can result in not working extensions.
>
> I recommend to use a max-version dependency in general, do some QA for a
> new version and release a new micro release if necessary with an
> increased max-version. This is the only way to ensure that your
> extension works.
>
>>>
>>> 8) Same for incompatible C++ extensions. Is the user given a
>>> meaningful message that directs them to the extension author? Or will
>>> they be confused and end up asking us for help?
>
> I am sure but I assume an error message that won't really help. To
> improve this a more complex rework and API changes would be necessary.
> It can be seen as a further design issue.
>
>>>
>>> 9) Is there any easy way users can tell which extensions on the
>>> Repository are compatible with AOO 4.0?
>
> no, I don't think so. It could help to check the min and max versions
> but I am not sure if this would be useful.
>
>>>
>>> 10) Are there any test extensions that QA can use to test the positive
>>> and negative cases of #7 and #8 above?
>
> we have test for extension but I don't know the current state. We have
> to check this and should include the tests in our automated tests
>
>>>
>>> 11) Are there any other edge cases we need to think about? Maybe
>>> future-proofing? What happens to a future incompatible AOO 5.0
>>> extension when installed on AOO 4.0?
>>>
>
> thinking about a new workflow and check of versions. Be more restrictive
>
The most common use case here will probably be dictionaries packaged
as extensions. There are many more languages supported via
dictionaries than we have UI translations, right?
As we saw with the 3.4.1 upgrade, profile issues caused users to lose
access to their dictionaries. This caused a lot of confusion, bad
word-of-mouth on social media, many duplicate BZ issues, posts on user
list and forums, etc.
So if there is something that we can do to improve the user experience
here, let's try. If users lose their dictionary access, without
advance warning or useful error message then we'll just get a repeat
of what occurred with 3.4.1. At the very least we can put something
into the Release Notes, but I assume only a minority would read
them...
Is there any facility in the upgrade wizard to put some additional
text, to warn the user of what will happen and what they need to do,
so we can avoid problems? For example, what if we had a link to a web
page or wiki page where we explain? For example, the upgrade dialog
could say:
"You currently have 3 extensions installed (A, B and C). These will
need to be reinstalled after the upgrade completes. Most extensions
are available from http://extensions.openoffice.org. More information
is here..."
-Rob
> Juergen
>
>>> I'm happy to update the Release Notes if the developers can clarify
>>> the expected behaviors here.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 6/5/13 2:57 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> here is what I know about some of the questions.
>
> On 05.06.2013 13:36, Rob Weir wrote:
>> I'm a little confused by recent threads on the upgrade logic. But I'd
>> like to ensure that this area is adequately tested and that we
>> understand how it behaves so we can better support users. So here are
>> some questions to flesh out the way it will work with AOO 4.0.
>>
>> 1) When an AOO 3.4.1 user profile customizations configured, what
>> happens when they install AOO 4.0?
>
> For AOO 4.0 a new user profile will be created.
> Currently (actual status of our code), nothing from an existing AOO
> 3.4.x (or OOo 3.x) user profile will be migrated to the new AOO 4.0 user
> profile.
>
> If we decide to solve issue 122397 we can decide what part of an
> existing AOO 3.4.x resp. OOo 3.x user profile is migrated.
>
>>
>> 2) If anything is not migrated are users given any warning, so this is
>> not a surprise? (Maybe we need something in the Release Notes at
>> least?)
>>
>
> No warning is given to the user.
>
>> 3) Does this include custom spell checking word list? Old Extensions?
>
> I think the question is meant in context of question 1 and 2.
> Thus, again nothing is currently migrated.
> Via solving issue 122397 we can decide which extensions are migrated by
> using a white list and a black list.
>
> Important note 1:
> I have found code to migrate extensions - service
> com.sun.star.migration.Extensions. But I currently do not know, if it
> works or not. But, I know that in the migration configuration data a
> white list and a black list for extensions can be specified.
>
> Important note 2:
> Regarding word lists or word books we currently have for the migration
> from OOo 2.x user profile to AOO 3.4.x/OOo 3.x a service named
> com.sun.star.migration.Wordbooks. But I do not know, if it has something
> to do with word lists/word books.
>
>>
>> 4) What happens to the old AOO 3.4.1 install directories? Is it
>> removed? Does that include extensions? other files? Is it totally
>> clean?
>
> As far as I had experienced - I need to double-check it -, during
> installation the user is asked, if the installation directory of a
> former found version should be removed or not. The extensions which are
> located inside the installation directory would be removed, too.
> As far as I know the user profile of the former version will survive.
> This needs to be doubled-checked, too.
>
>>
>> 5) If extensions are not migrated, is there anything that helps the
>> user to know what extensions they need to reinstall? If not
>> automated, maybe we need something in the Release Notes to explain how
>> a user can make this list *before* they install AOO 4.0?
>>
>
> As far as I know, there exist no code to support the user in such a
> scenario.
>
>> 6) Does any of the above change if they are upgrading from AOO 3.4.0
>> or OOo 3.3.0 or earlier to AOO 4.0?
>>
>
> Depending on what we decide for issue 122397.
>
>
> Best regards, Oliver.
>
>> 7) Once AOO 4.0 is installed, what happens if a user tries to install
>> an extension that has not updated addons.xcu? Is there an obvious
>> error message, directing the user to contact the extension developers?
well Ariel can explain in detail what is implemented but as far as I
know the user get no error message and the toolbar is simply not viewed.
That was the reason why we recommend to use a max-version dependency in
general. Even if API don't change, implementation changes can trigger a
different behaviour and can result in not working extensions.
I recommend to use a max-version dependency in general, do some QA for a
new version and release a new micro release if necessary with an
increased max-version. This is the only way to ensure that your
extension works.
>>
>> 8) Same for incompatible C++ extensions. Is the user given a
>> meaningful message that directs them to the extension author? Or will
>> they be confused and end up asking us for help?
I am sure but I assume an error message that won't really help. To
improve this a more complex rework and API changes would be necessary.
It can be seen as a further design issue.
>>
>> 9) Is there any easy way users can tell which extensions on the
>> Repository are compatible with AOO 4.0?
no, I don't think so. It could help to check the min and max versions
but I am not sure if this would be useful.
>>
>> 10) Are there any test extensions that QA can use to test the positive
>> and negative cases of #7 and #8 above?
we have test for extension but I don't know the current state. We have
to check this and should include the tests in our automated tests
>>
>> 11) Are there any other edge cases we need to think about? Maybe
>> future-proofing? What happens to a future incompatible AOO 5.0
>> extension when installed on AOO 4.0?
>>
thinking about a new workflow and check of versions. Be more restrictive
Juergen
>> I'm happy to update the Release Notes if the developers can clarify
>> the expected behaviors here.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: AOO 4.0 upgrade behaviors
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
here is what I know about some of the questions.
On 05.06.2013 13:36, Rob Weir wrote:
> I'm a little confused by recent threads on the upgrade logic. But I'd
> like to ensure that this area is adequately tested and that we
> understand how it behaves so we can better support users. So here are
> some questions to flesh out the way it will work with AOO 4.0.
>
> 1) When an AOO 3.4.1 user profile customizations configured, what
> happens when they install AOO 4.0?
For AOO 4.0 a new user profile will be created.
Currently (actual status of our code), nothing from an existing AOO
3.4.x (or OOo 3.x) user profile will be migrated to the new AOO 4.0 user
profile.
If we decide to solve issue 122397 we can decide what part of an
existing AOO 3.4.x resp. OOo 3.x user profile is migrated.
>
> 2) If anything is not migrated are users given any warning, so this is
> not a surprise? (Maybe we need something in the Release Notes at
> least?)
>
No warning is given to the user.
> 3) Does this include custom spell checking word list? Old Extensions?
I think the question is meant in context of question 1 and 2.
Thus, again nothing is currently migrated.
Via solving issue 122397 we can decide which extensions are migrated by
using a white list and a black list.
Important note 1:
I have found code to migrate extensions - service
com.sun.star.migration.Extensions. But I currently do not know, if it
works or not. But, I know that in the migration configuration data a
white list and a black list for extensions can be specified.
Important note 2:
Regarding word lists or word books we currently have for the migration
from OOo 2.x user profile to AOO 3.4.x/OOo 3.x a service named
com.sun.star.migration.Wordbooks. But I do not know, if it has something
to do with word lists/word books.
>
> 4) What happens to the old AOO 3.4.1 install directories? Is it
> removed? Does that include extensions? other files? Is it totally
> clean?
As far as I had experienced - I need to double-check it -, during
installation the user is asked, if the installation directory of a
former found version should be removed or not. The extensions which are
located inside the installation directory would be removed, too.
As far as I know the user profile of the former version will survive.
This needs to be doubled-checked, too.
>
> 5) If extensions are not migrated, is there anything that helps the
> user to know what extensions they need to reinstall? If not
> automated, maybe we need something in the Release Notes to explain how
> a user can make this list *before* they install AOO 4.0?
>
As far as I know, there exist no code to support the user in such a
scenario.
> 6) Does any of the above change if they are upgrading from AOO 3.4.0
> or OOo 3.3.0 or earlier to AOO 4.0?
>
Depending on what we decide for issue 122397.
Best regards, Oliver.
> 7) Once AOO 4.0 is installed, what happens if a user tries to install
> an extension that has not updated addons.xcu? Is there an obvious
> error message, directing the user to contact the extension developers?
>
> 8) Same for incompatible C++ extensions. Is the user given a
> meaningful message that directs them to the extension author? Or will
> they be confused and end up asking us for help?
>
> 9) Is there any easy way users can tell which extensions on the
> Repository are compatible with AOO 4.0?
>
> 10) Are there any test extensions that QA can use to test the positive
> and negative cases of #7 and #8 above?
>
> 11) Are there any other edge cases we need to think about? Maybe
> future-proofing? What happens to a future incompatible AOO 5.0
> extension when installed on AOO 4.0?
>
> I'm happy to update the Release Notes if the developers can clarify
> the expected behaviors here.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Rob
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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