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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by "dbarrettnj@netscape.net" <db...@netscape.net> on 2012/12/16 16:50:24 UTC
Unsubsribe -is- broken
The unsubsribe does not work. This is first of all obvious from the number of complaints to the list. It is beside the point that the process sometimes or even usually works. Counting the number of people it works for is pointless. Instead count the number who have complained.
The first unsubsribe email works, at least to the point where one receives the auto confirm.
That there even is a confirm is madness. It is also quite possibly illegal as removing oneself from auto mailers has been regulated. From the moment a user wishes to absent themselves from this list and going forward you are spam.
Of course, like all spam the response is "well you signed up". That doesn't change the fact that you're spamming.
The auto generated response contains the instruction to reply. When one does (and the process fails) the result is a parse error at the server resulting in a auto generated help response.
My mailer flags the email address on the help page as invalid. I will not defend my mailer, but simply point out it is vastly deployed.
It is too much to hope for, I know, that after so many months of complaints anyone will take the issue seriously. However it is an issue and further more it seems to be unique to this list. I monitor several other lists with similar infrastructure and there is never a complaint.
If someone is willing to do more than shrug I have the following suggestions, in order of likelihood of success.
1 lose the two part process notification is enough it's free to sign up.
2. revamp the confirm message and inductions.
3. provide a backup html solution.
Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM, dbarrettnj@netscape.net
<db...@netscape.net> wrote:
> That there even is a confirm is madness.
No. Imagine if the process had no confirmation and if troublemakers
could just read the list, compile a list of messages, and procees to
unsubscribe everyone, one by one.
The purpose of the confirmation e-mail for mailing list request is
obvious: to confirm that is the actual owner of the account who is
requesting administrative actions on his account.
Imagine if your bank provided a hotline for closing your bank account
that would just ask "enter your account number to close it", and then
you dialed the number and the result would be "ok, your bank account
has been closed". Now think of the abuse that would cause if anyone
could dial and close other people´s bank accounts.
What you´re asking for is the same.
In e-mail, the only way -actually the simpler one- to confirm a web
request actually originates from a given email address´ owner is to
send a confirmation email to that address.
FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell
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Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM, dbarrettnj@netscape.net
<db...@netscape.net> wrote:
> The first unsubsribe email works, at least to the point where one receives the auto confirm.
>
> That there even is a confirm is madness. It is also quite possibly illegal as removing oneself from auto mailers has been regulated
I notice you are using a netscape.net email address. I have one of
those. At the time AOL moved Netscape.net to @aim.com it ceased
offering new @netscape.net email addresses but kept the old
netscape.net addresses working as aliases, plus it assigned @aim.com
aliases to every @netscape.net user.
The end result -try it by emailing yourself yourself- is that in your
case dbarrettnj@netscape.net dbarrettnj@aim.com and even
dbarrettnj@aol.com -if not taken previously by some aol user- all end
up in the same mailbox. The problem arises when you compose replies,
and whether you do so from the web interface or an IMAP/SMTP client.
It depends of what address you use to log-in. You should use
username@netscape.net in the screen name log-in page.
The trick, if you want your replies to contain @netscape.net as origin
address is to configure your smtp server as smtp.aim.com with
[username@netscape.net] as log-in user name (not just "username").
Otherwise the reply might come out as from @aim.com
Perhaps that is causing trouble for you ?
FC
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Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Volker Holfeld <vo...@nicsys.de>.
Am 17.12.2012 um 18:10 schrieb Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Maurice Howe <ma...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>> Many of us have multiple USERIDs that we funnel into a single email account
>> so that we don't have to hop around to different log-ons. Maybe *THAT*
>> could be a reason that UNSUBSCRIBE requests fail. For example, "Maurice" is
>> a sub-account to my primary RoadRunner acct, "MHowe001" (which I almost
>> never use).
>
> Exactly, the reply has to come from the address you used to subscribe,
> NOT from the address where that secondary account ends into.
>
> That is easy to solve if you´re using a modern SMTP email client like
> Mozilla´s Thunderbird... just configure your secondary email account
> as a new pop3 acount on the program, but leave the pop3 server empty
> or with bogus info, but the smtp server with the right info (smtp
> server and username), the result is that you end up with an account
> setup on the program configured so that can it send email -using that
> secondary email address- correctly, but cannot receive it (the email
> ends up in your primary account anyway, you´re just configuring it on
> TBird for outbound messages only).
>
> For instance, I have a dozen different email addresses configured on
> TBird as "outbound only" (smtp server correctly configured, pop3
> server setup as 127.0.01 which never connects ;), while email
> addressed to all those accounts ends up in my @gmail.com ...
>
> Not sure if I made my point clear. It´s harder to explain it than to
> do it.... :)
> FC
With an IMAP server it is very easy too, with ThunderBird identities. There is a button "Identities…" at the lower right corner of the main account settings page. From there you can configure as many virtual identities as you need (one for each alias which routes mails to your account). When you compose a mail ThunderBird tries to guess the identity from which the mail will be sent or you have the choice to select one from the list. Each identity may have extra IMAP folders for SPAM, Sent, etc. which is pretty cool :-).
But for those who do not even know from which account they subscribed: Please display all header information for a line like this:
Return-Path: <us...@openoffice.apache.org>
You will see your mail address used when subscribing to the list (Sorry if that has been answered, but I did not follow the whole thread :-)…).
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Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Maurice Howe <ma...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
> Many of us have multiple USERIDs that we funnel into a single email account
> so that we don't have to hop around to different log-ons. Maybe *THAT*
> could be a reason that UNSUBSCRIBE requests fail. For example, "Maurice" is
> a sub-account to my primary RoadRunner acct, "MHowe001" (which I almost
> never use).
Exactly, the reply has to come from the address you used to subscribe,
NOT from the address where that secondary account ends into.
That is easy to solve if you´re using a modern SMTP email client like
Mozilla´s Thunderbird... just configure your secondary email account
as a new pop3 acount on the program, but leave the pop3 server empty
or with bogus info, but the smtp server with the right info (smtp
server and username), the result is that you end up with an account
setup on the program configured so that can it send email -using that
secondary email address- correctly, but cannot receive it (the email
ends up in your primary account anyway, you´re just configuring it on
TBird for outbound messages only).
For instance, I have a dozen different email addresses configured on
TBird as "outbound only" (smtp server correctly configured, pop3
server setup as 127.0.01 which never connects ;), while email
addressed to all those accounts ends up in my @gmail.com ...
Not sure if I made my point clear. It´s harder to explain it than to
do it.... :)
FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell
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RE: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Maurice Howe <ma...@stny.rr.com>.
Many of us have multiple USERIDs that we funnel into a single email account
so that we don't have to hop around to different log-ons. Maybe *THAT*
could be a reason that UNSUBSCRIBE requests fail. For example, "Maurice" is
a sub-account to my primary RoadRunner acct, "MHowe001" (which I almost
never use).
Maurice D. Howe
General MacArthur Honor Guard Assn
616 Lacey Drive
Endwell, NY 13760
607-754-0469
Maurice@stny.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob [mailto:Bob@metheating.com]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 11:28 AM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: RE: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Is spelling an issue?
"unsubscribe" NOT unsubscribe
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Junge [mailto:peter.junge@gmx.org]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 PM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Unsubscribing *does* work. As a moderator I have been helping several of
those subscribers who complained and it always turned out that they did
something wrong. The most common error is trying to unsubscribe with a
different email address than that one which is on the list. Furthermore, the
moderators are using exactly the same method.
Nonetheless, I have just tested the whole cycle with subscribing and
unsubscribing an email address and it worked like a charm.
Confirming unsubscribing *is* absolutely necessary. It's easy to spoof email
addresses, even Google Mail has this feature. This is like a postcard. I may
send a postcard with your name on it as a prank and email works in the same
way.
Best regards,
Peter
On 12/16/2012 11:50 PM, dbarrettnj@netscape.net wrote:
>
> The unsubsribe does not work. This is first of all obvious from the
number of complaints to the list. It is beside the point that the process
sometimes or even usually works. Counting the number of people it works for
is pointless. Instead count the number who have complained.
>
> The first unsubsribe email works, at least to the point where one receives
the auto confirm.
>
> That there even is a confirm is madness. It is also quite possibly
illegal as removing oneself from auto mailers has been regulated. From the
moment a user wishes to absent themselves from this list and going forward
you are spam.
>
> Of course, like all spam the response is "well you signed up". That
doesn't change the fact that you're spamming.
>
> The auto generated response contains the instruction to reply. When one
does (and the process fails) the result is a parse error at the server
resulting in a auto generated help response.
>
> My mailer flags the email address on the help page as invalid. I will not
defend my mailer, but simply point out it is vastly deployed.
>
> It is too much to hope for, I know, that after so many months of
complaints anyone will take the issue seriously. However it is an issue and
further more it seems to be unique to this list. I monitor several other
lists with similar infrastructure and there is never a complaint.
>
> If someone is willing to do more than shrug I have the following
suggestions, in order of likelihood of success.
> 1 lose the two part process notification is enough it's free to sign
up.
> 2. revamp the confirm message and inductions.
> 3. provide a backup html solution.
>
>
>
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RE: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Bob <Bo...@metheating.com>.
Is spelling an issue?
"unsubscribe" NOT unsubscribe
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Junge [mailto:peter.junge@gmx.org]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 PM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Unsubscribing *does* work. As a moderator I have been helping several of those subscribers who complained and it always turned out that they did something wrong. The most common error is trying to unsubscribe with a different email address than that one which is on the list. Furthermore, the moderators are using exactly the same method.
Nonetheless, I have just tested the whole cycle with subscribing and unsubscribing an email address and it worked like a charm.
Confirming unsubscribing *is* absolutely necessary. It's easy to spoof email addresses, even Google Mail has this feature. This is like a postcard. I may send a postcard with your name on it as a prank and email works in the same way.
Best regards,
Peter
On 12/16/2012 11:50 PM, dbarrettnj@netscape.net wrote:
>
> The unsubsribe does not work. This is first of all obvious from the number of complaints to the list. It is beside the point that the process sometimes or even usually works. Counting the number of people it works for is pointless. Instead count the number who have complained.
>
> The first unsubsribe email works, at least to the point where one receives the auto confirm.
>
> That there even is a confirm is madness. It is also quite possibly illegal as removing oneself from auto mailers has been regulated. From the moment a user wishes to absent themselves from this list and going forward you are spam.
>
> Of course, like all spam the response is "well you signed up". That doesn't change the fact that you're spamming.
>
> The auto generated response contains the instruction to reply. When one does (and the process fails) the result is a parse error at the server resulting in a auto generated help response.
>
> My mailer flags the email address on the help page as invalid. I will not defend my mailer, but simply point out it is vastly deployed.
>
> It is too much to hope for, I know, that after so many months of complaints anyone will take the issue seriously. However it is an issue and further more it seems to be unique to this list. I monitor several other lists with similar infrastructure and there is never a complaint.
>
> If someone is willing to do more than shrug I have the following suggestions, in order of likelihood of success.
> 1 lose the two part process notification is enough it's free to sign up.
> 2. revamp the confirm message and inductions.
> 3. provide a backup html solution.
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Unsubsribe -is- broken
Posted by Peter Junge <pe...@gmx.org>.
Unsubscribing *does* work. As a moderator I have been helping several of
those subscribers who complained and it always turned out that they did
something wrong. The most common error is trying to unsubscribe with a
different email address than that one which is on the list. Furthermore,
the moderators are using exactly the same method.
Nonetheless, I have just tested the whole cycle with subscribing and
unsubscribing an email address and it worked like a charm.
Confirming unsubscribing *is* absolutely necessary. It's easy to spoof
email addresses, even Google Mail has this feature. This is like a
postcard. I may send a postcard with your name on it as a prank and
email works in the same way.
Best regards,
Peter
On 12/16/2012 11:50 PM, dbarrettnj@netscape.net wrote:
>
> The unsubsribe does not work. This is first of all obvious from the number of complaints to the list. It is beside the point that the process sometimes or even usually works. Counting the number of people it works for is pointless. Instead count the number who have complained.
>
> The first unsubsribe email works, at least to the point where one receives the auto confirm.
>
> That there even is a confirm is madness. It is also quite possibly illegal as removing oneself from auto mailers has been regulated. From the moment a user wishes to absent themselves from this list and going forward you are spam.
>
> Of course, like all spam the response is "well you signed up". That doesn't change the fact that you're spamming.
>
> The auto generated response contains the instruction to reply. When one does (and the process fails) the result is a parse error at the server resulting in a auto generated help response.
>
> My mailer flags the email address on the help page as invalid. I will not defend my mailer, but simply point out it is vastly deployed.
>
> It is too much to hope for, I know, that after so many months of complaints anyone will take the issue seriously. However it is an issue and further more it seems to be unique to this list. I monitor several other lists with similar infrastructure and there is never a complaint.
>
> If someone is willing to do more than shrug I have the following suggestions, in order of likelihood of success.
> 1 lose the two part process notification is enough it's free to sign up.
> 2. revamp the confirm message and inductions.
> 3. provide a backup html solution.
>
>
>
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