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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Dominique Devienne <DD...@lgc.com> on 2002/12/17 19:03:32 UTC
FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
... which follows the SUN and MS bashing thread where this subject was
brushed on.
I'm just forwarding the news, no need to shoot/flame the messenger. Thanks,
--DD
From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
<http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839>
For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
(Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)
Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I find it rather amusing that you need Office 11 to have ACCESS to XML.
After all XML has been so restricted until now ;-).
Regardless, I hope (I think) Micorsoft REALLY makes Office XML compliant
such that it behaves nicely in Office. Currently you can save it as a
kinda XML format but its not usable in a server situation because of
Office's quirks, IE->Office quirks (oddly enough this works better with
Netscape 4.x+), and tendency to CRASH on non-insubstantial documents or
just take for flippin ever (in a way that just doesn't make sense if
they are parsing using any parser I've ever used).. If Microsoft
ACTUALLY does this, than after a short period I'll consider POI to be
kin to ECS (http://jakarta.apache.org/ecs/); however, I wouldn't
pre-reserve my copy just yet or start a big "Finally Microsoft embraces
open file formats yet"...
I sold my stock in MS a long time ago when I realized they had no
credibility (which made me rather uncomfortable as a relatively
conservative investor...my IBM stock did better anyhow when you count
the dividends).
-Andy
>>From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
>>
>>Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
>><http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839>
>>
>>For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
>>Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
>>easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
>>(Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)
>>
>>
>
>
>Lame... Since ages we got <http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/> which has (I'm
>sure), less bugs than MS' implementation of it...
>
> Pier
>
>
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 17/12/02 18:03 "Dominique Devienne" <DD...@lgc.com> wrote:
> ... which follows the SUN and MS bashing thread where this subject was
> brushed on.
> I'm just forwarding the news, no need to shoot/flame the messenger. Thanks,
> --DD
>
> From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
>
> Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
> <http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839>
>
> For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
> Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
> easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
> (Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)
Lame... Since ages we got <http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/> which has (I'm
sure), less bugs than MS' implementation of it...
Pier
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Brian Ewins <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>on 2002/12/17 10:22 AM, "Brian Ewins" <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>This is old news I but I just saw it today: there's a tool that can
>>convert word 2000 docs (saved as html) to an xml doc and an xsl-t script
>>to generate xsl:fo - and from there to PDF.
>>http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/fabgia/wh2fo/wh2fo.html
>>
>>Very nice trick.
>>
>>
>
>On OSX you can simply save as a PDF when you print the document. No XML
>needed. Get a Mac.
>
>=)
>
And I can do this in Windows too using Redmon to talk to Ghostscript, or
Distiller; theres a similar GS trick on Linux. However, I wouldn't want
to use wh2fo to make pdf from word docs, that's silly and misses the
usefulness of this trick - having separated the style from the content,
I can now use the style on /different/ content. This turns word into a
tool for wysiwyg authoring of xsl:fo stylesheets; or more likely, just
get you up and running with xsl:fo by generating the stylesheet for your
corporate docs.
- Baz
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Re: OSX
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2003/1/17 5:46 PM, "Brian McCallister" <br...@skife.org> wrote:
> Sun hasn't released a 1.4 JDK for OSX yet, but I use quite a few of the
> 1.4 features daily for work. Is there a ultra-sekret 1.4 JDK for OSX out
> that i am unaware of, or are all of the OSX'ers in Apache using 1.3?
There is a beta 1.4.x JDK...it has bugs, but I have been using it fairly
well for a while now...click the 'Join ADC' button and you can setup a free
account which will give you access...nice thing is that account works across
all of apple's various login pages on their site...
http://connect.apple.com
-jon
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OSX
Posted by Brian McCallister <br...@skife.org>.
On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 14:38, Peter Royal wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 02:13 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > Seems as if most of Jakarta use OS X now. Is it just that us X-junkies
> > are
> > loud and proud about it?
>
> I switched recently ( ~ 4mo ). It would be interesting to conduct an
> informal poll.
> -pete
Related to OSX - I am seriously considering moving I just have a concern
about JDK's.
Sun hasn't released a 1.4 JDK for OSX yet, but I use quite a few of the
1.4 features daily for work. Is there a ultra-sekret 1.4 JDK for OSX out
that i am unaware of, or are all of the OSX'ers in Apache using 1.3?
Thanks,
Brian
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Peter Royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 02:13 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Seems as if most of Jakarta use OS X now. Is it just that us X-junkies
> are
> loud and proud about it?
I switched recently ( ~ 4mo ). It would be interesting to conduct an
informal poll.
-pete
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
Conor MacNeill wrote:
>
> Could I please have site karma?
Done.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Conor MacNeill <co...@cortexebusiness.com.au>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
>
> Please update the site with your preferences.
>
Could I please have site karma?
Thanks
Conor
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/17 2:29 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
> It's fun? :)
+1! Finally something that isn't just about how much Sun sucks ass.
Although, it would be nice if they did do something someday that wasn't
blatantly stupid (if only you guys could read the JSR-154 list...).
> On a side note, Jakarta needs a Poll/Survey/Questionnaire project someday.
> Least it'd be cool.
I agree.
-jon
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
> >I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
> >
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
> >
> >Please update the site with your preferences.
> >
> >-jon
> >
> >
> >
> while I plan to site my preference. I merely am curious what the
> purpose it. (not a critique or whatever just pure curiosity)
It's fun? :)
On a side note, Jakarta needs a Poll/Survey/Questionnaire project someday.
Least it'd be cool.
Hen
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
>
>Please update the site with your preferences.
>
>-jon
>
>
>
while I plan to site my preference. I merely am curious what the
purpose it. (not a critique or whatever just pure curiosity)
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/17 2:54 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
> Hey Jon,
>
> Can people have two operating systems of choice for your page?
>
> Hen
If people have more than one preference. I would prefer to have it as the
primary preference of choice, but if you really have grey area, that is cool
as well.
-jon
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> >A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the issue
> >that people without access to jakarta-site2 are unable to commit changes.
> >
> >If people want to send in patches, or just vote inline, then I'm sure
> >people with access can add them. [I'm happy to do so for any I see].
> >
> >
>
> Ok, here it is:
>
> * MS Windows XP - Vadim Gritsenko (came with company's notebook)
> * Linux - Vadim Gritsenko (desktop)
Hey Jon,
Can people have two operating systems of choice for your page?
Hen
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
>A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the issue
>that people without access to jakarta-site2 are unable to commit changes.
>
>If people want to send in patches, or just vote inline, then I'm sure
>people with access can add them. [I'm happy to do so for any I see].
>
>
Ok, here it is:
* MS Windows XP - Vadim Gritsenko (came with company's notebook)
* Linux - Vadim Gritsenko (desktop)
Vadim
>Hen
>
>On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
>
>
>>I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
>>
>>Please update the site with your preferences.
>>
>>-jon
>>
>>--
>>StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
>>314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
>> http://studioz.tv/
>>
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/17 6:27 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
> If this is untrue, then why not give all Jakarta committers access to
> jakarta-site2 to encourage people to work on the site.
Anyone who asks for it gets it. Why it works that way, I don't know. It is
just how it has been done. Changing it is another discussion. Send a patch.
-jon
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> on 2002/12/17 1:15 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
>
> > A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the issue
> > that people without access to jakarta-site2 are unable to commit changes.
>
> I'm sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing that lame excuse over and over again,
> even though it is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED as being untrue for YEARS NOW.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html
What lame excuse? My email did not differ from that document with the
exception that I assumed that adding a line to this file might be
something that people would not either get cvs access for, or that they
would not want to deal with building the site themselves.
If this is untrue, then why not give all Jakarta committers access to
jakarta-site2 to encourage people to work on the site.
> > People who have accounts on apache.org can check in their changes to the
> > jakarta-site2 module directly. If you get an error such as "Access denied:
> > Insufficient Karma", then please send email to the general@jakarta.apache.org
> > mailing list and we will grant you the appropriate access. If you do not have
> > an account, then please feel free to send patches (against the .xml files and
> > not the .html files!) to the general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list.
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RE: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
I already have an account setup, but need Karma. Can you help me with
this?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:59 PM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [POLL] OS of choice
>
>
> on 2002/12/17 1:15 PM, "Henri Yandell"
> <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
>
> > A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the
> > issue that people without access to jakarta-site2 are
> unable to commit
> > changes.
>
> I'm sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing that lame excuse over
> and over again, even though it is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED as being
> untrue for YEARS NOW.
>
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html
> People who have accounts on apache.org can check in their changes to
> the jakarta-site2 module directly. If you get an error such as "Access
> denied: Insufficient Karma", then please send email to the
> general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list and we will grant you the
> appropriate access. If you do not have an account, then please feel
> free to send patches (against the .xml files and not the .html files!)
> to the general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list.
-jon
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/17 1:15 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
> A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the issue
> that people without access to jakarta-site2 are unable to commit changes.
I'm sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing that lame excuse over and over again,
even though it is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED as being untrue for YEARS NOW.
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html
> People who have accounts on apache.org can check in their changes to the
> jakarta-site2 module directly. If you get an error such as "Access denied:
> Insufficient Karma", then please send email to the general@jakarta.apache.org
> mailing list and we will grant you the appropriate access. If you do not have
> an account, then please feel free to send patches (against the .xml files and
> not the .html files!) to the general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list.
-jon
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the issue
that people without access to jakarta-site2 are unable to commit changes.
If people want to send in patches, or just vote inline, then I'm sure
people with access can add them. [I'm happy to do so for any I see].
Hen
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
>
> Please update the site with your preferences.
>
> -jon
>
> --
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> 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
> http://studioz.tv/
>
>
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Scarab
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Hi,
Can anyone tell me what the status of Scarab is, wrt using it for James?
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Danny Angus wrote:
>>Please update the site with your preferences.
>
>
> Jon,
> Server, desktop or what?
> d.
Ok, I updated site to include Henri Yandell and my config
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Quick stupid question. At once time Jon expressed the thought that
jakarta-site was the proper module to use (jakarta-site2/jakarta-site
are now
the same thing and once commit affects the other... I suppose this is
probably
a link, but I bet the windoze folks don't know what that is) and that
we'd eventually
migrate back to it and jakarta-site2 would go away.. Does having karma
to jakarta-site2
mean you do to jakarta-site and is this still the plan?
-Andy
Sam Ruby wrote:
> glens and jmitchell now have karma to jakarta-site2
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
glens and jmitchell now have karma to jakarta-site2
- Sam Ruby
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RE: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Glen Stampoultzis <tr...@iprimus.com.au>.
Me too please.
-- Glen Stampoultzis (glens@apache.org)
At 01:14 PM 18/12/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I would like to add my OS of choice. May I have Karma?
>
>
>--
>James Mitchell
>Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
>http://www.open-tools.org
>
>"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
>when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
>- Bjarne Stroustrup
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@apache.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 1:04 PM
> > To: Jakarta General List
> > Subject: RE: [POLL] OS of choice
> >
> >
> > Ahem.. I'd rather not say ;-)
> >
> > d.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> > > Sent: 18 December 2002 17:16
> > > To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [POLL] OS of choice
> > >
> > >
> > > on 2002/12/18 1:14 AM, "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jon,
> > > > Server, desktop or what?
> > > > d.
> > >
> > > What computer OS did you use to type that email from? =)
> > >
> > > -jon
> > >
> > > --
> > > StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
> > > 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
> > > http://studioz.tv/
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
> >
>
>
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RE: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
I would like to add my OS of choice. May I have Karma?
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 1:04 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: RE: [POLL] OS of choice
>
>
> Ahem.. I'd rather not say ;-)
>
> d.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> > Sent: 18 December 2002 17:16
> > To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [POLL] OS of choice
> >
> >
> > on 2002/12/18 1:14 AM, "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Jon,
> > > Server, desktop or what?
> > > d.
> >
> > What computer OS did you use to type that email from? =)
> >
> > -jon
> >
> > --
> > StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
> > 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
> > http://studioz.tv/
> >
> >
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RE: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Ahem.. I'd rather not say ;-)
d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> Sent: 18 December 2002 17:16
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [POLL] OS of choice
>
>
> on 2002/12/18 1:14 AM, "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Jon,
> > Server, desktop or what?
> > d.
>
> What computer OS did you use to type that email from? =)
>
> -jon
>
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Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/18 1:14 AM, "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> Jon,
> Server, desktop or what?
> d.
What computer OS did you use to type that email from? =)
-jon
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RE: [POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Please update the site with your preferences.
Jon,
Server, desktop or what?
d.
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[POLL] OS of choice
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers.
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html
Please update the site with your preferences.
-jon
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
> > on 2002/12/17 10:22 AM, "Brian Ewins" <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is old news I but I just saw it today: there's a tool that can
> > > convert word 2000 docs (saved as html) to an xml doc and an xsl-t script
> > > to generate xsl:fo - and from there to PDF.
> > > http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/fabgia/wh2fo/wh2fo.html
> > >
> > > Very nice trick.
> >
> > On OSX you can simply save as a PDF when you print the document. No XML
> > needed. Get a Mac.
>
> You'd be amazed how quickly you take this for granted. I quite happily
> tell people to send it to me in PDF format. Before I got a mac I used to
> view PDF as some proprietary, impossible to create nasty thing.
>
> Seems as if most of Jakarta use OS X now. Is it just that us X-junkies are
> loud and proud about it?
Yep. ;-)
--
Martin Cooper
>
> Hen
>
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> on 2002/12/17 10:22 AM, "Brian Ewins" <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
> > This is old news I but I just saw it today: there's a tool that can
> > convert word 2000 docs (saved as html) to an xml doc and an xsl-t script
> > to generate xsl:fo - and from there to PDF.
> > http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/fabgia/wh2fo/wh2fo.html
> >
> > Very nice trick.
>
> On OSX you can simply save as a PDF when you print the document. No XML
> needed. Get a Mac.
You'd be amazed how quickly you take this for granted. I quite happily
tell people to send it to me in PDF format. Before I got a mac I used to
view PDF as some proprietary, impossible to create nasty thing.
Seems as if most of Jakarta use OS X now. Is it just that us X-junkies are
loud and proud about it?
Hen
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/17 10:22 AM, "Brian Ewins" <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>
wrote:
> This is old news I but I just saw it today: there's a tool that can
> convert word 2000 docs (saved as html) to an xml doc and an xsl-t script
> to generate xsl:fo - and from there to PDF.
> http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/fabgia/wh2fo/wh2fo.html
>
> Very nice trick.
On OSX you can simply save as a PDF when you print the document. No XML
needed. Get a Mac.
=)
-jon
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11
Posted by Brian Ewins <Br...@i-documentsystems.com>.
This is old news I but I just saw it today: there's a tool that can
convert word 2000 docs (saved as html) to an xml doc and an xsl-t script
to generate xsl:fo - and from there to PDF.
http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/fabgia/wh2fo/wh2fo.html
Very nice trick.
Dominique Devienne wrote:
> ... which follows the SUN and MS bashing thread where this subject was
> brushed on.
>
> I'm just forwarding the news, no need to shoot/flame the messenger.
> Thanks, --DD
>
> From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
>
> Microsoft Office embraces XML _http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839_
>
> For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
>
> Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
>
> easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
>
> (Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)
>
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