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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Christian Kreutz <sc...@gmx.de> on 2004/06/27 14:49:46 UTC
Usability: Document Structure
Hello list!
Just some small recommendations in terms of usability.
Tell me what you think.
Our clients often get confused not knowing where they are in authoring mode.
I think a precise information would help:
You are here: Home > Company > Profile
I know there is not much space left in the menue bar, but not all pubs use
breadcrumbs and I think it would give the user a necessary overview.
Also when creating a new document I would recommend a user-friendly
description. How should a non-experience user understand Parent ID or
Document ID?
Instead of parent ID, I would write: You are creating a document on this
level: Home > Company > Profile > New Document
And I had difficulties in introductions to explain new users the difference
between document id and navigation title?
Wouldn't it be better to work only with the navigation field (as required
fields) and document id takes the same value when document id is not filled
out?
I know these problems might sound a bit fussy but a good CMS should first be
unnderstood by non-experienced users.
Regards
Christian
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AW: AW: Usability: Document Structure
Posted by Christian Kreutz <sc...@gmx.de>.
>
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
> >> Thanks for the explanation but I understood this all before. I
> >> thought about a non-experienced user for whom a CMS is build as I
> >> undstand it. They don't understand either Node ID or
> Document ID as I
> >> experienced it.
> >
> >
> > OK, we could use something like "URL step" or "URL snippet"?
>
> the creator screen could also have a graphic to illustrate
> what it is.
> or a help tooltip.
Sounds great!!!
>
> --
> Gregor J. Rothfuss
> Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
> http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
>
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Re: AW: Usability: Document Structure
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Thanks for the explanation but I understood this all before.
>> I thought about a non-experienced user for whom a CMS is build as I
>> undstand it. They don't understand either Node ID or Document ID as I
>> experienced it.
>
>
> OK, we could use something like "URL step" or "URL snippet"?
the creator screen could also have a graphic to illustrate what it is.
or a help tooltip.
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: AW: Usability: Document Structure
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Christian Kreutz wrote:
[...]
>>This requires the use of a hierarchic site structure
>>with a generic way of breadcrumb generation. Including it in
>>the core would narrow down the choices of site structures,
>>therefore I'm -1.
>
> I thought it is easy becasuse it exists already in the site info and
> relates
> to sitetree.xml. Anyway I found a way around and use breadcrumb in
> authoring mode.
The sitetree is used only by specific publications. At the
moment, the sitetree concept is entangled with the publication
API, but this will not be the case in 1.4.
[...]
> Thanks for the explanation but I understood this all before.
> I thought about a non-experienced user for whom a CMS is build as I
> undstand it.
> They don't understand either Node ID or Document ID as I experienced it.
OK, we could use something like "URL step" or "URL snippet"?
-- Andreas
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AW: Usability: Document Structure
Posted by Christian Kreutz <sc...@gmx.de>.
> Christian Kreutz wrote:
> > Hello list!
> >
> > Just some small recommendations in terms of usability.
> > Tell me what you think.
> >
> > Our clients often get confused not knowing where they are
> in authoring
> > mode. I think a precise information would help: You are
> here: Home >
> > Company > Profile I know there is not much space left in the menue
> > bar, but not all pubs use breadcrumbs and I think it would give the
> > user a necessary overview.
>
> This requires the use of a hierarchic site structure
> with a generic way of breadcrumb generation. Including it in
> the core would narrow down the choices of site structures,
> therefore I'm -1.
I thought it is easy becasuse it exists already in the site info and
relates
to sitetree.xml. Anyway I found a way around and use breadcrumb in
authoring mode.
>
> > Also when creating a new document I would recommend a user-friendly
> > description. How should a non-experience user understand
> Parent ID or
> > Document ID?
> >
> > Instead of parent ID, I would write: You are creating a document on
> > this
> > level: Home > Company > Profile > New Document
>
> In the default publication, this would certainly make sense.
Yes that is what I thought of.
>
> > And I had difficulties in introductions to explain new users the
> > difference between document id and navigation title?
>
> The document ID has a well-defined meaning to identify a
> document in the URL space of a publication. It has to comply
> some restrictions, depending on the document builder
> implementation you use.
>
> BTW, the term "document ID" is wrong in the "create document"
> screen. What you enter here is the node ID. When you use a
> site tree, the node ID is required to be unique among its
> siblings to guarantee globally unique document IDs.
>
> The actual document ID is the absolute ID of the document
> (e.g., /home/company/profile/new_document).
>
> The navigation title is just a "human-readable" string you
> assign to a document to be used in the site navigation.
Thanks for the explanation but I understood this all before.
I thought about a non-experienced user for whom a CMS is build as I
undstand it.
They don't understand either Node ID or Document ID as I experienced it.
>
> > Wouldn't it be better to work only with the navigation field (as
> > required
> > fields) and document id takes the same value when document
> id is not filled
> > out?
>
> No, as the document ID has to comply certain restrictions.
> In your publication, you could generate (e.g. random)
> document IDs instead. But it is recommended to leave this up
> to the user to end up with a human-readable URL space.
I thought about generating it randomly too but then
I rejected it because search engines index also the file name for
keywords.
Thanks for your help.
>
> I hope things have become a bit clearer now.
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
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Re: Usability: Document Structure
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Christian Kreutz wrote:
> Hello list!
>
> Just some small recommendations in terms of usability.
> Tell me what you think.
>
> Our clients often get confused not knowing where they are in authoring mode.
> I think a precise information would help:
> You are here: Home > Company > Profile
> I know there is not much space left in the menue bar, but not all pubs use
> breadcrumbs and I think it would give the user a necessary overview.
This requires the use of a hierarchic site structure
with a generic way of breadcrumb generation. Including it in
the core would narrow down the choices of site structures,
therefore I'm -1.
> Also when creating a new document I would recommend a user-friendly
> description. How should a non-experience user understand Parent ID or
> Document ID?
>
> Instead of parent ID, I would write: You are creating a document on this
> level: Home > Company > Profile > New Document
In the default publication, this would certainly make sense.
> And I had difficulties in introductions to explain new users the difference
> between document id and navigation title?
The document ID has a well-defined meaning to identify a document
in the URL space of a publication. It has to comply some restrictions,
depending on the document builder implementation you use.
BTW, the term "document ID" is wrong in the "create document" screen.
What you enter here is the node ID. When you use a site tree, the
node ID is required to be unique among its siblings to guarantee
globally unique document IDs.
The actual document ID is the absolute ID of the document (e.g.,
/home/company/profile/new_document).
The navigation title is just a "human-readable" string you assign to a
document to be used in the site navigation.
> Wouldn't it be better to work only with the navigation field (as required
> fields) and document id takes the same value when document id is not filled
> out?
No, as the document ID has to comply certain restrictions.
In your publication, you could generate (e.g. random) document
IDs instead. But it is recommended to leave this up to the user
to end up with a human-readable URL space.
I hope things have become a bit clearer now.
-- Andreas
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