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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com> on 2012/10/03 11:13:43 UTC
Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
Thanks, Om, for taking the initiative on this matter!
I still doubt, though, that this designing and skinning tool, you are
proposing, can be created by one person alone. If the Adobe Catalyst
team couldn't finish Flash Catalyst within 4 years of development, how
could you possibly do that just on your own?
The way I see it: The Flash Catalyst development should be
reopened and splited up into an open source project and into a
commercial project. The open source project should be hosted
on Github and codenamed Adobe Thermo again [1] - just like
Adobe Brackets [2]. Further, the commercial product, called Flash
Catalyst again, should reenter the Adobe Creative Suite product
line in CS7.
In case that Adobe blocks those affords then, maybe, the
Spoon project would have some financial resources left to
start this initiative. Thoughts?
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] https://github.com/adobe/thermo
[2] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
On Oct 2, 2012, at 9:56 PM, Om wrote:
> I am very interested in building the design view as an AIR app. Lets talk
> design/architecture now.
>
> Here is a brain-dead architecture design of the AIR app, that lets the user
> interactively drag and drop components, apply layouts, change labels/titles
> etc.
>
> Conceptually, this is simple enough. This contains the following
> components:
>
> 1. Components list: We read the list of available components from a
> manifest file and populate a toolbox on the side.
> 2. Design area: This would be a container where we will draw the objects
> 3. Interactive layer: Any object or group of objects in the design area
> can be selected, resized, rotated, constrained.
> 4. Properties area: Properties such as: styles, skins, layout of selected
> components could be changed here.
> 5. Skins could be created/edited in the same way. They could also be
> applied onto their corresponding Host Components as well.
> 6. Generate MXML: This is the part that I am unclear. My first thought
> is to walk through the flash player display hierarchy and create an XML
> containing all the components in the screen along with their properties and
> styles. Feed this primitive XML into Falcon (lots of hand-waving here)
> which spits out MXML. This MXML can be edited in the IDE.
>
> Bonus features:
> 1. Hooking up to Data services
> 2. Round-tripping between Design View <=> IDE
> 3. Writing Eclipse/IDEA plugins as wrappers around this AIR app so that it
> can be integrated into IDEs.
>
> I *know* I am missing something obvious above. Please provide your
> feedback so that we can iteratively fill out the design.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:20 PM, <te...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>>
>>
>> You are welcome to open a JIRA ticket for Apache Flex and try to see if
>>> you
>>> can define requirements in priority order. Remember that this is a
>>> volunteer organization so you can't just say "replicate DV". What are the
>>> most important aspects of DV? Is one of them IDE integration? If so,
>>> why?
>>> An AIR DV could certainly launch an ant script to build your changes.
>>>
>>>
>> Just reiterating on something I said in a previous post to this; If a
>> project could start, start small with a prototype only doing the basic.
>> Then slowly add functionality. This would be very important for an endeavor
>> like a DesignView.
>>
>> I have written Eclipse plugins before, I have no idea how to write an IDEA
>> plugin, I looked and saw I would have to learn a very different framework.
>>
>> With the new compiler and it's AST and definitions, it would make
>> something like this a whole lot easier, and I'm speaking from 2 weeks
>> experience with the code.
>>
>> I want to mention one more thing here. Acting as a developer of something
>> like a design view, there is a huge overwhelming fear that it could lose
>> interest and get abandoned purely out of volunteers moving, or working on
>> other things. Loosing traction on a project like this when you spent time
>> developing it and know you could have been doing something else is always
>> in developers minds.
>>
>> So add the risk factor as well. For years I have heard Flex developers say
>> they use it all the time to others saying it was a waste of time and time
>> should have been spent on the more important features.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> PS On the plus side with an AIR implementation, being written with Flex
>> would be a boost to the whole project because you would be using the
>> framework components and creating new ones purely out of the need for the
>> new functionality. It could almost act as a live garden of growth for the
>> framework.
>>
>>
>>
Re: New wiki entry clarifying relationship between Apache Flex and
Adobe? (was: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:46 PM, sébastien Paturel
<se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Someone could write a new wiki entry to explain once and for all in what and
> how Adobe is contributing to flex
> and clarifying in what and how Adobe is publicly engaged (get the link to
> the flash player and AIR Roadmap) and things like
> "Adobe has made no promises about FXG support into the future."
> should be compiled in this page....
Note that IMO (and with my incubation mentor hat on) such statements
do not belong on the Apache Flex website or wiki. Links to statements
that Adobe and others make about Flex are fine, but I'd stop there.
Like any other company, Adobe cannot "participate" in an Apache
project, cannot be a member of the foundation etc., that's different
from other foundations where companies do have a voice, here they
don't.
We're extremely thankful for the support that companies provide to our
projects by paying people to work on them, and for some of them [1] by
sponsoring the foundation, but as funny as it might seem this does not
provide those companies with a voice in our projects.
Whoever participates in an Apache project does so as an individual,
they do not represent their company. It's a fine line, as many of us
are participating in Apache projects as part of our paid work, but
this (somewhat extreme, and a bit unusual) independence with respect
to companies is key to Apache's long-term success, as that makes
Apache a very neutral place for people to collaborate.
-Bertrand
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html
New wiki entry clarifying relationship between Apache Flex and Adobe?
(was: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
"I would expect / hope that adobe is a partner of apache flex"
To easily answer to this recurrent question or reaction,
Someone could write a new wiki entry to explain once and for all in what
and how Adobe is contributing to flex
and clarifying in what and how Adobe is publicly engaged (get the link
to the flash player and AIR Roadmap) and things like
"Adobe has made no promises about FXG support into the future."
should be compiled in this page.
In one word: clarify what Adobe do for Apache Flex, and what it does
not. What Adobe has promised and what it has not.
Maybe there's already a page like that?
Le 05/10/2012 18:29, Alex Harui a écrit :
>
>
> On 10/5/12 7:00 AM, "Charles Monteiro" <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would expect / hope that adobe is a partner of apache flex
> Adobe is investing in Apache Flex, otherwise I and others wouldn't be paid
> to be involved.
>
>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/5/12 7:00 AM, "Charles Monteiro" <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would expect / hope that adobe is a partner of apache flex
Adobe is investing in Apache Flex, otherwise I and others wouldn't be paid
to be involved.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@gmail.com>.
I would expect / hope that adobe is a partner of apache flex
On Oct 5, 2012 9:52 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No war between HTML5 and AIR here.
> You already can run on AIR.
> The fact that Flex don't run on HTML5 at all (even with lightweight
> version) is a big drawback in the framework war.
> And AIR is not safe for long term future for Apache Flex because of Adobe
> dependency.
> And i don't see why is would be hard to do both.
> The objective is to be multiplatform framework, unless its pointless.
>
>
> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>
>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>
>> I want to run on AIR.
>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
>>> get
>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>
>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>
>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masuland>
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>
>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>> soon as
>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>> designer
>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>> web, so
>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>> View
>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>
>>>>> opensource
>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>> could
>>>>> handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>> workflow
>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice
>>>>> as
>>>>> well).
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>> >
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
No war between HTML5 and AIR here.
You already can run on AIR.
The fact that Flex don't run on HTML5 at all (even with lightweight
version) is a big drawback in the framework war.
And AIR is not safe for long term future for Apache Flex because of
Adobe dependency.
And i don't see why is would be hard to do both.
The objective is to be multiplatform framework, unless its pointless.
Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>
> I want to run on AIR.
> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could get
>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>> option because of code dependencies.
>>
>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>
>>
>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>
>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>
>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>
>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as
>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer
>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>
>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so
>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>
>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
>>>> AIR App)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>> the application.
>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>> opensource
>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could
>>>> handle.
>>>>
>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>
>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow
>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as
>>>> well).
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>> --
>>>> Alex Harui
>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design
View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Great news, thanks Alex :)
Le 05/10/2012 16:27, Alex Harui a écrit :
> FalconJS is not under development. A prototype was built several months
> ago, but no serious work has been done on it since. I should be able to
> start on its legal review next week.
>
>
> On 10/5/12 7:06 AM, "filippo dipisa" <fi...@dipisa.net> wrote:
>
>> FOr what I understand falco js is still under development and there is just
>> one resource on it so don't hope on it.
>> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>> Here there is a good solution if you want to use as to create js apps
>>
>> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 October 2012 14:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
>>> is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
>>> donated, it shoudl be next?
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>>>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>>>
>>>> I want to run on AIR.
>>>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
>>>>> get
>>>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>>>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masul
>>>>>> and>
>>>>>>
> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>>>> soon as
>>>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>>>> designer
>>>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>>>> web, so
>>>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>>>> View
>>>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> opensource
>>>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>>>> workflow
>>>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.
>>>>>>> adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www
>>>>>>> .adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 10/5/2012 7:20 PM, Charles Monteiro wrote:
> Not getting this air is very much cross platform , running on desktops ,
> android , ios, it seems win surface rtf
>
It depends on your delivery mechanism. If you need "Cross platform"
browser based apps that have to work on an iPad or iPhone; then Flash is
out. I assumed the original poster was referring to browser based apps
/ web sites.
I agree with your sentiment that AIR can be great for cross platform
"native" apps.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design View
AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@gmail.com>.
Not getting this air is very much cross platform , running on desktops ,
android , ios, it seems win surface rtf
On Oct 5, 2012 12:21 PM, "FORMER 03 | Robert Brendler" <
robert.brendler@former03.de> wrote:
> I'd also like to drop some comment on this ...
>
> I don't know how it is with you guys, but most of the projects I am
> getting nowadays are required to be cross platform ... or better said ...
> "can you make it run on my iPad? do I really need another app for it, I
> already got like 3 million of them" ... Although I really enjoy working
> with Flex, I usually switch to html-js-css when it comes to the
> cross-platform or code-once topic, which is a step back in terms of comfort
> and speed for my development, but that is what the client wants and pays
> for. You should not blame Adobe for not continuing flex and catalyst but
> rather Mr. Jobs for declaring war on flash, and lets be honest thats a fact
> that we are facing a couple of years already, get over it. As a replacement
> I found jquery-ui to be not that bad. It gives you the "small subset" of
> flex and is available now, even with some ui effects.
>
> On the other hand if there is a project that depends on the strengths of
> flash (effects, rendering, ...) or if I am in an enterprise project that
> only runs in an enclosed environment, where there is a company that can
> dictate their employees which tool to use, I go back to flex. But in these
> cases there is no need for a conversion to js, it probably wouldn't bring
> an advantage cause it won't run as fast or make any difference other than
> the used technology, correct me if I'm wrong. And in case they still want
> something to play for their ipads I do a little html web interface that
> talks to the same services, those kind of clients usually can afford it.
>
> The only thing I could imagine that really needs both performant rendering
> and cross-platform compatibility are games ... but if you wanna walk down
> that path you are better off with C/C++ anyway.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> On 05.10.2012 16:27, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>> FalconJS is not under development. A prototype was built several months
>> ago, but no serious work has been done on it since. I should be able to
>> start on its legal review next week.
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/12 7:06 AM, "filippo dipisa" <fi...@dipisa.net> wrote:
>>
>> FOr what I understand falco js is still under development and there is
>>> just
>>> one resource on it so don't hope on it.
>>> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>>> Here there is a good solution if you want to use as to create js apps
>>>
>>> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 October 2012 14:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
>>>> is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
>>>> donated, it shoudl be next?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>>>>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to run on AIR.
>>>>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe
>>>>> could
>>>>>
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>>>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>>>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make
>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my
>>>>>> side!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/******masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland>
>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/**masul<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masul>
>>>>>>> and>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/**masuland<http://www.linkedin.**
>> com/in/masuland <http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq
>>>>>>>> mockups
>>>>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>>>>> soon as
>>>>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>>>>> designer
>>>>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>>>>> web, so
>>>>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me
>>>>>>>> shift
>>>>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>>>>> View
>>>>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but
>>>>>>>>> functional
>>>>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to
>>>>>>>>> Skin
>>>>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as
>>>>>>>>> soon
>>>>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being
>>>>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the
>>>>>>>>> stuff
>>>>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> opensource
>>>>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to
>>>>>>>> implement.
>>>>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it
>>>>>>>> remains
>>>>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>>>>> workflow
>>>>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a
>>>>>>>> choice
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/******flex/whitepapers/roadmap.**html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.
>>>>>>>> adobe.com/devnet/**flex/**whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/**devnet/**flex/whitepapers/**roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>> <http://www
>>>>>>>> .adobe.com/devnet/flex/**whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
> --
> _____ FORMER 03 GmbH
> _____ infanteriestraße 19 haus 6
> _____ 80797 muenchen
>
> _____ robert.brendler@former03.de
> _____ www.former03.de
>
> _____ fon 089.322112.28
> _____ fax 089.322112.11
>
> _____ geschäftsführer
> _____ sebastian fiedler
> _____ gert zellentin
>
> _____ handelsregister
> _____ HRB München 148468
>
> _____ steuer
> _____ ust.-id DE 229107876
>
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design
View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by FORMER 03 | Robert Brendler <ro...@former03.de>.
I'd also like to drop some comment on this ...
I don't know how it is with you guys, but most of the projects I am
getting nowadays are required to be cross platform ... or better said
... "can you make it run on my iPad? do I really need another app for
it, I already got like 3 million of them" ... Although I really enjoy
working with Flex, I usually switch to html-js-css when it comes to the
cross-platform or code-once topic, which is a step back in terms of
comfort and speed for my development, but that is what the client wants
and pays for. You should not blame Adobe for not continuing flex and
catalyst but rather Mr. Jobs for declaring war on flash, and lets be
honest thats a fact that we are facing a couple of years already, get
over it. As a replacement I found jquery-ui to be not that bad. It gives
you the "small subset" of flex and is available now, even with some ui
effects.
On the other hand if there is a project that depends on the strengths of
flash (effects, rendering, ...) or if I am in an enterprise project that
only runs in an enclosed environment, where there is a company that can
dictate their employees which tool to use, I go back to flex. But in
these cases there is no need for a conversion to js, it probably
wouldn't bring an advantage cause it won't run as fast or make any
difference other than the used technology, correct me if I'm wrong. And
in case they still want something to play for their ipads I do a little
html web interface that talks to the same services, those kind of
clients usually can afford it.
The only thing I could imagine that really needs both performant
rendering and cross-platform compatibility are games ... but if you
wanna walk down that path you are better off with C/C++ anyway.
Cheers,
Rob
On 05.10.2012 16:27, Alex Harui wrote:
> FalconJS is not under development. A prototype was built several months
> ago, but no serious work has been done on it since. I should be able to
> start on its legal review next week.
>
>
> On 10/5/12 7:06 AM, "filippo dipisa" <fi...@dipisa.net> wrote:
>
>> FOr what I understand falco js is still under development and there is just
>> one resource on it so don't hope on it.
>> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>> Here there is a good solution if you want to use as to create js apps
>>
>> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 October 2012 14:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
>>> is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
>>> donated, it shoudl be next?
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>>>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>>>
>>>> I want to run on AIR.
>>>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
>>>>> get
>>>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>>>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masul
>>>>>> and>
>>>>>>
> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>>>> soon as
>>>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>>>> designer
>>>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>>>> web, so
>>>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>>>> View
>>>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> opensource
>>>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>>>> workflow
>>>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.
>>>>>>> adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www
>>>>>>> .adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
--
_____ FORMER 03 GmbH
_____ infanteriestraße 19 haus 6
_____ 80797 muenchen
_____ robert.brendler@former03.de
_____ www.former03.de
_____ fon 089.322112.28
_____ fax 089.322112.11
_____ geschäftsführer
_____ sebastian fiedler
_____ gert zellentin
_____ handelsregister
_____ HRB München 148468
_____ steuer
_____ ust.-id DE 229107876
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design
View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
FalconJS is not under development. A prototype was built several months
ago, but no serious work has been done on it since. I should be able to
start on its legal review next week.
On 10/5/12 7:06 AM, "filippo dipisa" <fi...@dipisa.net> wrote:
> FOr what I understand falco js is still under development and there is just
> one resource on it so don't hope on it.
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
> Here there is a good solution if you want to use as to create js apps
>
> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>
>
>
> On 5 October 2012 14:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
>> is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
>> donated, it shoudl be next?
>>
>>
>> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>>
>>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>>
>>> I want to run on AIR.
>>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
>>>> get
>>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>>
>>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masul
>>>>> and>
>>>>>
<http://www.linkedin.**com/in/masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>>>>>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>>> soon as
>>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>>> designer
>>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>>> web, so
>>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>>> View
>>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> opensource
>>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>>> workflow
>>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.
>>>>>> adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www
>>>>>> .adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design View
AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by filippo dipisa <fi...@dipisa.net>.
FOr what I understand falco js is still under development and there is just
one resource on it so don't hope on it.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Here there is a good solution if you want to use as to create js apps
http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
On 5 October 2012 14:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
> is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
> donated, it shoudl be next?
>
>
> Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
>
>> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
>> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>>
>> I want to run on AIR.
>> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
>>> get
>>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>>> option because of code dependencies.
>>>
>>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>>
>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/****masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masuland>
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.**com/in/masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>>
>>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As
>>>>> soon as
>>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a
>>>>> designer
>>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the
>>>>> web, so
>>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design
>>>>> View
>>>>> AIR App)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>>> the application.
>>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>>>>
>>>>> opensource
>>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it
>>>>> could
>>>>> handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop
>>>>> workflow
>>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice
>>>>> as
>>>>> well).
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/****flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>> <**http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>>> >
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
Any news about FalconJS donation? (was: Financing the Design View
AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Following the HTML5 targetting discussion
is there any news about the FalconJS donation, as we now have Falcon
donated, it shoudl be next?
Le 05/10/2012 15:46, Charles Monteiro a écrit :
> I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
> html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
>
> I want to run on AIR.
> On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could get
>> Catalyst back from the dead.
>> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
>> option because of code dependencies.
>>
>> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
>> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>>
>>
>> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>>
>>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely Yours,
>>>
>>> Sebastian Mohr
>>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>>
>>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as
>>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer
>>>> to have it pimped.
>>>>
>>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so
>>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>>
>>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
>>>> AIR App)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>>> the application.
>>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>>> opensource
>>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could
>>>> handle.
>>>>
>>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>>
>>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow
>>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as
>>>> well).
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>>> --
>>>> Alex Harui
>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>
>>>>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@gmail.com>.
I'm wondering if most in this group are more interested about targeting
html5 than air because it seems to me it would be hard to do both well.
I want to run on AIR.
On Oct 5, 2012 9:38 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could get
> Catalyst back from the dead.
> They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
> option because of code dependencies.
>
> Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
> Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
>
>
> Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
>
>> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
>> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely Yours,
>>
>> Sebastian Mohr
>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**masuland<http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>>
>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>>
>>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups
>>> and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as
>>> the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer
>>> to have it pimped.
>>>
>>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at
>>> hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the
>>> designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so
>>> I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the
>>> environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major
>>> breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift
>>> allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>>
>>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
>>> AIR App)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <
>>> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin
>>>> the application.
>>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>>
>>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>>
>>>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to
>>> opensource
>>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement.
>>> For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could
>>> handle.
>>>
>>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it
>>> down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains
>>> valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>>
>>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different
>>> way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow
>>> and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as
>>> well).
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>> --
>>> Alex Harui
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
I agree with others that you should abandone the idea that Adobe could
get Catalyst back from the dead.
They have been pretty clear about it, and the open sourcing is not an
option because of code dependencies.
Your only chance to see catalyst come back from Adobe, is to make Apache
Flex te best framework for HTML5 runtime!
Le 04/10/2012 00:48, Sebastian Mohr a écrit :
> @christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
> Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
>
>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>
>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer to have it pimped.
>>
>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>
>> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
>> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>>
>>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the application.
>>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>>
>>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>>
>> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to opensource
>> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement. For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could handle.
>>
>> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>>
>> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as well).
>>
>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>
>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
@christofer dutz ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. +1 from my side!
Flash Catalyst CS5.5 is a charm for interaction designers like me.
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, christofer.dutz@c-ware.de wrote:
> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>
> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer to have it pimped.
>
> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>
> It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
> An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
>
>
>
>
> On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>>
>> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
>> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
>> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the application.
>> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
>> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
>> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>>
>> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
>> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>>
> It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to opensource
> it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement. For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could handle.
>
> The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains valid in a world of dynamic UI.
>
> It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as well).
>
> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
I think it's a good long term investment. There is a lot already invested
in it. FXG is more like SVG 4.0. Also, there has been work done on the
compiler that produces optimized FXG. FXG is Flex' friend.
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Yvon Sauvageau <ys...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Don't convert your FXG to SVG for real though. The last time I tried SVG
> in FB 4.6, I got compile warnings that basically told me that SVG was a
> thing of the past and that I should use FXG.
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 5, 2012 14:34:04 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
>
> On 10/5/2012 9:44 AM, sébastien Paturel wrote:
> >
> > by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
> > answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
>
> There has been some talk about that in the past. The general gist--as
> I understand it--was that they decided it would be better to create
> something which was closer to the Flash Player rending model.
>
> FXG and SVG are very close; as I understand it. I thought the Flex
> compiler supported SVG too? It may be an interesting experiment to
> convert all the FXG elements (and related skins) to SVG.
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
Posted by Yvon Sauvageau <ys...@yahoo.com>.
Don't convert your FXG to SVG for real though. The last time I tried SVG in FB 4.6, I got compile warnings that basically told me that SVG was a thing of the past and that I should use FXG.
-----Original message-----
From: Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 5, 2012 14:34:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
On 10/5/2012 9:44 AM, sébastien Paturel wrote:
>
> by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
> answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
There has been some talk about that in the past. The general gist--as
I understand it--was that they decided it would be better to create
something which was closer to the Flash Player rending model.
FXG and SVG are very close; as I understand it. I thought the Flex
compiler supported SVG too? It may be an interesting experiment to
convert all the FXG elements (and related skins) to SVG.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
> On 10/5/2012 9:44 AM, sébastien Paturel wrote:
>
>>
>> by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
>> answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
>>
>
> There has been some talk about that in the past. The general gist--as I
> understand it--was that they decided it would be better to create something
> which was closer to the Flash Player rending model.
>
> FXG and SVG are very close; as I understand it. I thought the Flex
> compiler supported SVG too? It may be an interesting experiment to convert
> all the FXG elements (and related skins) to SVG.
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Yes FXG is practically interchangeable with SVG markup. However, converting
FXG to SVG would be counterproductive. FXG enjoys optimizations on the
compiler that SVG does not, so it will always run more efficiently. At
least that is my understanding.
-omar
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 10/5/2012 9:44 AM, sébastien Paturel wrote:
>
> by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
> answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
There has been some talk about that in the past. The general gist--as
I understand it--was that they decided it would be better to create
something which was closer to the Flash Player rending model.
FXG and SVG are very close; as I understand it. I thought the Flex
compiler supported SVG too? It may be an interesting experiment to
convert all the FXG elements (and related skins) to SVG.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex?
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
But it seems that theres very little differences between the two.
IMO Adobe will drop FXG sooner or later.
Why should they keep with it if they don't keep Flex in their main strategy?
I think we will have to get back to an SVG based solution (with SVG
extension ?)
Le 05/10/2012 17:47, Alex Harui a écrit :
>
>
> On 10/5/12 6:44 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> After Alex mentioned FXG, one important question comes to light:
>> should Apache Flex keep use FXG as skining tool?
> For now, yes.
>> as FXG is tightly linked to Adobe and its tools, can we count on Adobe
>> to continue to maintain the use of it? especially in Creative suite tools?
> Adobe has made no promises about FXG support into the future.
>> by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
>> answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
> I wasn't involved in that decision, but I think I recall overhearing some
> discussions about the mapping of SVG to Flash display objects. FXG files
> can be compiled very well into Flash SWF DefineXXX.
>
>
Re: Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex? (was: Financing
the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/5/12 6:44 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After Alex mentioned FXG, one important question comes to light:
> should Apache Flex keep use FXG as skining tool?
For now, yes.
> as FXG is tightly linked to Adobe and its tools, can we count on Adobe
> to continue to maintain the use of it? especially in Creative suite tools?
Adobe has made no promises about FXG support into the future.
>
> by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
> answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
I wasn't involved in that decision, but I think I recall overhearing some
discussions about the mapping of SVG to Flash display objects. FXG files
can be compiled very well into Flash SWF DefineXXX.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Is FXG a good long term choice for Apache Flex? (was: Financing the
Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App))
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
After Alex mentioned FXG, one important question comes to light:
should Apache Flex keep use FXG as skining tool?
as FXG is tightly linked to Adobe and its tools, can we count on Adobe
to continue to maintain the use of it? especially in Creative suite tools?
by the way, why Adobe chose to use new FXG, instead of SVG? (i bet the
answer as already been given a few times, sorry for asking again)
Alex, can you please enlighten us on that subject?
Thanks
Le 03/10/2012 19:37, Alex Harui a écrit :
>
>
> On 10/3/12 10:21 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>>
>> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups and
>> deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as the
>> component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer to
>> have it pimped.
> I rarely ever "finish" an app, but that would be my preferred workflow as
> well.
>> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at hand that
>> was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the designer skin a
>> running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so I didn't have give
>> away the code of the application itself or setup the environment at the
>> designers office. This workflow was the major breakthrough for me and was one
>> of the major things that made me shift allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>>
> I doubt you need Catalyst to implement this workflow. What would really be
> the best way to implement it? Wouldn't it be using PS/FF and exporting to
> FXG and then having a way to inject FXG into your app? That sounds much
> more possible.
>
Re: AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View
AIR App)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/3/12 10:21 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Well isn't it usually that way around?
>
> I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups and
> deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as the
> component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer to
> have it pimped.
I rarely ever "finish" an app, but that would be my preferred workflow as
well.
>
> Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at hand that
> was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the designer skin a
> running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so I didn't have give
> away the code of the application itself or setup the environment at the
> designers office. This workflow was the major breakthrough for me and was one
> of the major things that made me shift allmost entirely to the Flex road.
>
I doubt you need Catalyst to implement this workflow. What would really be
the best way to implement it? Wouldn't it be using PS/FF and exporting to
FXG and then having a way to inject FXG into your app? That sounds much
more possible.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
AW: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR
App)
Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Well isn't it usually that way around?
I create some general UI scetches using some tools like blamiq mockups and deal with negoitating the functionallity with my customers. As soon as the component works as desired I go "pimp my app" and give it to a designer to have it pimped.
Using Catalyst this was really easy (As soon as you had a desiger at hand that was used to it and it's concepts). I was even able to let the designer skin a running application deployed by me somewhere on the web, so I didn't have give away the code of the application itself or setup the environment at the designers office. This workflow was the major breakthrough for me and was one of the major things that made me shift allmost entirely to the Flex road.
It's a real pitty to have it dropped and wasted :-(
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 18:18
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>
> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that
> allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional
> developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the application.
> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market
> were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon
> as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
> sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
> concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
> that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
> animated transitions, ...) :-)
>
> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and
> if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>
It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to opensource
it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement. For example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could handle.
The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it down into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains valid in a world of dynamic UI.
It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different way than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow and you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as well).
[1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR
App)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/3/12 7:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>
> I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that allowed me
> to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional developer Skin) and
> having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the application.
> Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market were all
> even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon as the designers
> got the hang of it, the results were pretty sattisfying and I had what I was
> allways dreaming about: Being able to concentrate on the functionality and
> have a designer do all the stuff that sells the application (cool buttons,
> even greater effects and animated transitions, ...) :-)
>
> I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and if they
> did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>
It is essentially "dropped". See [1]. There are no plans to opensource
it. It too had a lot of "baggage" that made it difficult to implement. For
example, it really wasn't extensible as to what components it could handle.
The principle behind it (that you can take designer art and break it down
into components) is compelling, but I question whether it remains valid in a
world of dynamic UI.
It is also interesting to note that you used it in completely different way
than it was intended. It was for a design-first-then-develop workflow and
you did it the other way (which is what I do when I have a choice as well).
[1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR
App)
Posted by Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>.
I'm not throwing a recommendation for anything in particular, but I
believe a UI design tool for Apache Flex is critical to its future. Yes,
you can edit .CSS and .MXML/.AS files, build, deploy and view your
changes. But that round trip takes time and professional graphic designers
are generally not used to working like that. Further, it encourages
merging design and business logic when ideally you want them separated.
Apple now uses something it calls "Storyboards" (more advanced nibs) which
makes it very easy to separate the design from the function. Apple's UI
Designer plugin to Xcode needs more work to allow for complete styling,
but it does provide this separation where the description of the UI is
independent of the code. An iOS universal app can be a single executable
with multiple Storyboards using the same classes for iPhone and iPad but
uses them in different ways depending on which Storyboard is loaded.
I point this out because I feel mobile computing is really where Flex's
strength lies. You can write a Flex app to run on both Android and iOS
devices. I'm betting Windows 8 mobile won't be far behind. Imagine just
having one App that runs on all those devices. But each device has its own
look and feel. It would be better, and easier, for designers to create
those styles and themes independently from the app code and just bundle
them for each target device. Doing this requires a UI design tool graphic
designers can use that doesn't require compilation, code changes, etc.
While Apache isn't the place to develop such a tool, a company, group, or
individual could do that and provide the product - either commercially or
contribute it to Apache. Adobe could do it, sure (not saying they will),
but if this is something you want and if you believe Flex can be great on
mobile, than go for it.
Peter Ent
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems
On 10/3/12 10:38 AM, "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de"
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
>
>I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that allowed
>me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional developer
>Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the
>application. Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the
>market were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as
>soon as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty
>sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to
>concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff
>that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and
>animated transitions, ...) :-)
>
>I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and if
>they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.com]
>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 11:30
>An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Betreff: Re: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR
>App)
>
>Sebastian,
>
>No offense but sometimes I think you over think problems. Apache is not
>an enterprise in respect to each project.
>
>Having the same perspective about a project like FlashCatalyst and
>expecting that from Apache Flex is going to keep you up at night. This
>project would be iterative.
>
> From the looks of it I can count more than 3 people that seem to be
>interested in this project and we have only talked about it for a day.
>
>IMO I think you should just give the FC thing a rest and save your energy
>for things that actually could manifest.
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Thanks, Om, for taking the initiative on this matter!
>>
>> I still doubt, though, that this designing and skinning tool, you are
>> proposing, can be created by one person alone. If the Adobe Catalyst
>> team couldn't finish Flash Catalyst within 4 years of development, how
>> could you possibly do that just on your own?
>>
>> The way I see it: The Flash Catalyst development should be reopened
>> and splited up into an open source project and into a commercial
>> project. The open source project should be hosted on Github and
>> codenamed Adobe Thermo again [1] - just like Adobe Brackets [2].
>> Further, the commercial product, called Flash Catalyst again, should
>> reenter the Adobe Creative Suite product line in CS7.
>>
>> In case that Adobe blocks those affords then, maybe, the Spoon project
>> would have some financial resources left to start this initiative.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Sincerely Yours,
>>
>> Sebastian Mohr
>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/adobe/thermo
>> [2] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
>>
>>
>> --
>Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>http://www.teotigraphix.com
>http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
AW: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Oh ... let me thow in a little more weight for the Catalyst ;-)
I invested quite some time in setting up a project structure that allowed me to concentrate on developing (Using an ugly but functional developer Skin) and having professional Designers use Catalyst to Skin the application. Unfortunately it seemed that the designers available on the market were all even less "finished" than the Catalyst project, but as soon as the designers got the hang of it, the results were pretty sattisfying and I had what I was allways dreaming about: Being able to concentrate on the functionality and have a designer do all the stuff that sells the application (cool buttons, even greater effects and animated transitions, ...) :-)
I would be really happy if Adobe didn't entirely drop this tool, and if they did, If they would somehow open-source it.
Chris
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2012 11:30
An: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR App)
Sebastian,
No offense but sometimes I think you over think problems. Apache is not an enterprise in respect to each project.
Having the same perspective about a project like FlashCatalyst and expecting that from Apache Flex is going to keep you up at night. This project would be iterative.
From the looks of it I can count more than 3 people that seem to be interested in this project and we have only talked about it for a day.
IMO I think you should just give the FC thing a rest and save your energy for things that actually could manifest.
Mike
Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
> Thanks, Om, for taking the initiative on this matter!
>
> I still doubt, though, that this designing and skinning tool, you are
> proposing, can be created by one person alone. If the Adobe Catalyst
> team couldn't finish Flash Catalyst within 4 years of development, how
> could you possibly do that just on your own?
>
> The way I see it: The Flash Catalyst development should be reopened
> and splited up into an open source project and into a commercial
> project. The open source project should be hosted on Github and
> codenamed Adobe Thermo again [1] - just like Adobe Brackets [2].
> Further, the commercial product, called Flash Catalyst again, should
> reenter the Adobe Creative Suite product line in CS7.
>
> In case that Adobe blocks those affords then, maybe, the Spoon project
> would have some financial resources left to start this initiative.
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] https://github.com/adobe/thermo
> [2] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
>
>
> --
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Financing the Design View AIR App (Was: Re: Design View AIR
App)
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Sebastian,
No offense but sometimes I think you over think problems. Apache is
not an enterprise in respect to each project.
Having the same perspective about a project like FlashCatalyst and
expecting that from Apache Flex is going to keep you up at night. This
project would be iterative.
From the looks of it I can count more than 3 people that seem to be
interested in this project and we have only talked about it for a day.
IMO I think you should just give the FC thing a rest and save your
energy for things that actually could manifest.
Mike
Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
> Thanks, Om, for taking the initiative on this matter!
>
> I still doubt, though, that this designing and skinning tool, you are
> proposing, can be created by one person alone. If the Adobe Catalyst
> team couldn't finish Flash Catalyst within 4 years of development, how
> could you possibly do that just on your own?
>
> The way I see it: The Flash Catalyst development should be
> reopened and splited up into an open source project and into a
> commercial project. The open source project should be hosted
> on Github and codenamed Adobe Thermo again [1] - just like
> Adobe Brackets [2]. Further, the commercial product, called Flash
> Catalyst again, should reenter the Adobe Creative Suite product
> line in CS7.
>
> In case that Adobe blocks those affords then, maybe, the
> Spoon project would have some financial resources left to
> start this initiative. Thoughts?
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] https://github.com/adobe/thermo
> [2] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
>
>
> --
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com