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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2007/04/03 03:24:00 UTC
[all] Going TLP?
I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
that that I think are critical.
Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
work.
Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 4/3/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
+1
Niall
> Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>.
+1
Henri Yandell wrote:
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
> Hen
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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--
Dennis Lundberg
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
+1 for c.a.o, since I think it is right thing for commons.
<Jakarta PMC Chair hat on>
I really regret this step is necessary and is the beginning of the end of Jakarta. Even though this
process started earlier than this proposal, this process will make the end of Jakarta unavoidable. I
always hoped flattening commons would be the new Jakarta, but the thought crossed my mind I could
well be the last Jakarta PMC Chair.
Please understand that this proposal is *not* about Jakarta, but about commons, so instead of voting
-1 on this proposal to prevent Jakarta to end, I prefer that everyone will continue to keep involved
at Jakarta to move Jakarta to it's new role, whatever that may be. There are still a lot of projects
that here that need your expertise, experience and spirit.
</Jakarta PMC Chair hat on>
Mvgr,
Martin
Henri Yandell wrote:
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
> Hen
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Henri Yandell" <fl...@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
>My long term thinking for how this would be handled is:
>Multiple PMCs, one website. So we'd have Java Commons, Ruby Commons,
>BobsYourUncle Commons PMCs, and they'd all share a commons.apache.org
>website.
>Does that make you less wary of our stepping into the
>commons.apache.org shoes to start with?
Yes. +1 to commons.apache.org. Death to Jakarta. :-)
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux, |gls
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person |eau
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy |rwc
|m k
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/4/07, Henning P. Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de> wrote:
> "Henri Yandell" <fl...@gmail.com> writes:
> >So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
> +1 to that, -0 to the name.
>
> "commons" is too generic. There is already an XML commons and I could
We already have the Commons brand within Java. XML and DB and WS
Commons are but duplicates and Java based... maybe once we're a TLP we
can make overtures for them to join - we're largely 'Struts, Tomcat
and some other original bits Commons' right now. Maybe the trick is
less about language and more about a common place for other
communities to interact.
> imagine that at some point we might sprout commons for other
> languages, too (however this was suggested again and again and never
> materialized, so this might be moot).
I agree - and think it'll be moot until it happens. We've no real idea
how it would develop and if we need to restructure internally when
that time comes, maybe.
> "Java Commons" would be fine with me, it will be shortened to
> "commons" anyway.
>From your other email:
> Which in reality means, that on the PMC you will have people that care
> for Java components and others that care for Ruby components. Again
> you have a group that is not a community.
>
> Communities need adhesion. Ours is "Java" and "Java related components".
Possibly. It's all about community overlap and the question will be
whether if we have a Ruby component - it overlaps with a large enough
part of the community. I admit, I doubt it would unless it's a Java
focused one.
However, JRuby is up and coming and we have the new JSR scripting
stuff, so it might be something that is squarely in the Java camp by
then.
My long term thinking for how this would be handled is:
Multiple PMCs, one website. So we'd have Java Commons, Ruby Commons,
BobsYourUncle Commons PMCs, and they'd all share a commons.apache.org
website.
Does that make you less wary of our stepping into the
commons.apache.org shoes to start with?
Setting a public website up as 'Java Commons' seems like a dangerous
thing to do.
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Henri Yandell" <fl...@gmail.com> writes:
>I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
>have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
>end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
>Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
>general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
>that that I think are critical.
>Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
>are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
>term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
>care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
>small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
>community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
>that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
>work.
>Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
>and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
>things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
+1 to that, -0 to the name.
"commons" is too generic. There is already an XML commons and I could
imagine that at some point we might sprout commons for other
languages, too (however this was suggested again and again and never
materialized, so this might be moot).
"Java Commons" would be fine with me, it will be shortened to
"commons" anyway.
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux, |gls
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person |eau
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy |rwc
|m k
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH - RG Fuerth, HRB 7350 |a s
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Buckenhof. Geschaeftsfuehrer: Henning Schmiedehausen |n
"Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Just for people's info, I posted the vote to general@ yesterday.
On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Jochen asked that too:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-commons-dev/200704.mbox/%3ce75283b10704031231w7df2cabck21f07c99d37c20d0@mail.gmail.com%3e
My reply was:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-commons-dev/200704.mbox/%3c31cc37360704031335u3586efdeub65591aa92d2c5d7@mail.gmail.com%3e
In terms of your direct questions, I don't think moving gives us
anything we don't have now in terms of being able to attract more
users/contributors, improve quality or to releasing components more
frequently. It would improve visibility a bit.
Hen
On 5/2/07, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Sorry for the dumb question, I may have missed an important thread, but
> what do we gain exactly by moving to a TLP ? What will be different ? I
> can see the external aspects like a new web site, new mailing lists and
> the loss of the Jakarta brand, but I doubt we are moving just for this.
> Will this new structure help us attract more users or more contributors,
> and how ? Will we release more components, more frequently ? Will this
> improve the quality and the visibility of the projects ?
>
> Thank you for enlightening me.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
>
>
> Henri Yandell a écrit :
> > I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> > have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> > end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> > Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> > general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> > that that I think are critical.
> >
> > Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> > are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> > term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
> >
> > Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> > care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> > small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> > community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> > that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> > work.
> >
> > Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> > and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> > things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
> >
> > So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Sorry for the dumb question, I may have missed an important thread, but
what do we gain exactly by moving to a TLP ? What will be different ? I
can see the external aspects like a new web site, new mailing lists and
the loss of the Jakarta brand, but I doubt we are moving just for this.
Will this new structure help us attract more users or more contributors,
and how ? Will we release more components, more frequently ? Will this
improve the quality and the visibility of the projects ?
Thank you for enlightening me.
Emmanuel Bourg
Henri Yandell a écrit :
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 4/4/07, Henning P. Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de> wrote:
> "Henri Yandell" <fl...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >On 4/2/07, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> +1 for only Java components (flame away, this is just my HO)
>
> >Yep - though in reality this means:
>
> >"We'll do whatever the community wants to do. If someone proposes a
> >Ruby library and we have a community interested in creating and
> >supporting a Ruby library, then it would of course be strongly
> >considered. "
>
> Which in reality means, that on the PMC you will have people that care
> for Java components and others that care for Ruby components. Again
> you have a group that is not a community.
>
> Communities need adhesion. Ours is "Java" and "Java related components".
>
+1, not as any sort of exclusionary or negative sense, but because the
"Java" bit is what binds the community, IMO.
Phil
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Henri Yandell" <fl...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 4/2/07, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> +1 for only Java components (flame away, this is just my HO)
>Yep - though in reality this means:
>"We'll do whatever the community wants to do. If someone proposes a
>Ruby library and we have a community interested in creating and
>supporting a Ruby library, then it would of course be strongly
>considered. "
Which in reality means, that on the PMC you will have people that care
for Java components and others that care for Ruby components. Again
you have a group that is not a community.
Communities need adhesion. Ours is "Java" and "Java related components".
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux, |gls
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person |eau
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy |rwc
|m k
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH - RG Fuerth, HRB 7350 |a s
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Buckenhof. Geschaeftsfuehrer: Henning Schmiedehausen |n
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
A group of people that care about the same things under one umbrella, with it's own power of making
decisions. Jakarta isn't that, c.a.o will for commons.
Mvgr,
Martin
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> I've got a question: If we have commons.apache.org, what will be the
> difference to jakarta.apache.org, apart from the missing projects? Why
> do we expect that c.a.p will work, although we assume that j.a.p
> didn't?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jochen
>
>
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/3/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got a question: If we have commons.apache.org, what will be the
> difference to jakarta.apache.org, apart from the missing projects? Why
> do we expect that c.a.p will work, although we assume that j.a.p
> didn't?
I had three answers to this in my first email, here's a
rewording/summary to see if I can explain them better:
1: The inactive parts of Jakarta is a millstone around the neck of the
active parts. Trying to reorganize such things is a battle that I
don't think is worth fighting (so your missing projects difference
above).
2: Even if Jakarta does flatten down somewhat, it'll still have a huge
umbrella type PMC who care for the name and history, but aren't
involved in the remaining projects. So a c.a.p will have a much more
focused PMC.
3: I believe that hanging around is just keeping the old broken system
alive, us moving to c.a.p would be a big step in driving a Jakata
solution along.
The other solution is the 'promote all of Commons up to Jakarta
Subprojects, and groupings and all that jazz' that we talked over a
year ago; but I just don't think that's going to happen.
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
I've got a question: If we have commons.apache.org, what will be the
difference to jakarta.apache.org, apart from the missing projects? Why
do we expect that c.a.p will work, although we assume that j.a.p
didn't?
Thanks,
Jochen
--
My cats know that I am a loser who goes out for hunting every day
without ever returning as much as a single mouse. Fortunately, I've
got a wife who's a real champ: She leaves the house and returns within
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/2/07, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip/>
>
> > +0 for waiting to do this until we have a clear idea of where the rest
> > of the Jakarta subprojects are going.
>
> Once we go TLP, I imagine a few would head in our direction, whereas
> until we go TLP there won't be much of a decision made either way. I
> know I plan to suggest that the RDC taglib moves to Commons so it can
> be with SCXML (they're fairly tied aren't they?),
<snap/>
They're now decoupled (once we extracted the SCXML codebase out to
Commons). There is a dependency on Commons SCXML (the RDC taglib uses
it as one of the strategies to manage dialogs in speech applications).
Having said that, the RDC taglib is:
* Fairly small
* A library with a well-defined scope
* Mostly in Java, the rest is JSP tag files
As you said, its going to be influenced by what goes in the
resolution. Is the proposed TLP strictly Java only? Is a JSP taglib a
Java library? Probably more Java than Ruby. Its for all of us to
decide these things, and make it part of the resolution. If it fits,
it should come.
> and then the other
> parts of Taglibs can be put gently to sleep (unsure on JSTL).
>
<snip/>
Doesn't look like there is any new JSTL development planned here. I do
intend to go through the RDC bugzilla and a couple of enhancement
requests in there, its not high priority ATM.
-Rahul
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 4/3/07, Oliver Zeigermann <ol...@zeigermann.de> wrote:
> +1 to all said. I could even help.
>
> -0 to waiting until we have a clear idea about the rest of Jakarta as
> this is likely to never happen. Maybe a clearer idea will form after
> commons leaves Jakarta.
>
I guess that's one way to force the issue ;-)
Agree with the reasoning, though, so am +0 on moving ahead.
Phil
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Oliver Zeigermann <ol...@zeigermann.de>.
+1 to all said. I could even help.
-0 to waiting until we have a clear idea about the rest of Jakarta as
this is likely to never happen. Maybe a clearer idea will form after
commons leaves Jakarta.
Oliver
2007/4/3, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>:
> On 4/2/07, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
> > >
> >
> > +1
> > We have talked about this lots of times before and some discussions
> > have had us breaking commons itself apart into pieces. My +1 is for
> > the whole of commons as an Apache TLP.
> >
> > To answer some other questions that have come up before and will resurface:
> >
> > +1 for only Java components (flame away, this is just my HO)
>
> Yep - though in reality this means:
>
> "We'll do whatever the community wants to do. If someone proposes a
> Ruby library and we have a community interested in creating and
> supporting a Ruby library, then it would of course be strongly
> considered. "
>
> The argument here is going to be in what we put in our resolution. Do
> we explicitly state Java, or do we leave things language agnostic and
> rely on the fact that it is our community, and generally our community
> is going to want to do Java and Java related things.
>
> > +1 for bringing sandbox along
>
> And dormant.
>
> > +1 for welcoming small components from other Jakarta subprojects
>
> > +0 for waiting to do this until we have a clear idea of where the rest
> > of the Jakarta subprojects are going.
>
> Once we go TLP, I imagine a few would head in our direction, whereas
> until we go TLP there won't be much of a decision made either way. I
> know I plan to suggest that the RDC taglib moves to Commons so it can
> be with SCXML (they're fairly tied aren't they?), and then the other
> parts of Taglibs can be put gently to sleep (unsure on JSTL).
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/2/07, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
> >
>
> +1
> We have talked about this lots of times before and some discussions
> have had us breaking commons itself apart into pieces. My +1 is for
> the whole of commons as an Apache TLP.
>
> To answer some other questions that have come up before and will resurface:
>
> +1 for only Java components (flame away, this is just my HO)
Yep - though in reality this means:
"We'll do whatever the community wants to do. If someone proposes a
Ruby library and we have a community interested in creating and
supporting a Ruby library, then it would of course be strongly
considered. "
The argument here is going to be in what we put in our resolution. Do
we explicitly state Java, or do we leave things language agnostic and
rely on the fact that it is our community, and generally our community
is going to want to do Java and Java related things.
> +1 for bringing sandbox along
And dormant.
> +1 for welcoming small components from other Jakarta subprojects
> +0 for waiting to do this until we have a clear idea of where the rest
> of the Jakarta subprojects are going.
Once we go TLP, I imagine a few would head in our direction, whereas
until we go TLP there won't be much of a decision made either way. I
know I plan to suggest that the RDC taglib moves to Commons so it can
be with SCXML (they're fairly tied aren't they?), and then the other
parts of Taglibs can be put gently to sleep (unsure on JSTL).
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the end should be nigh for Jakarta (those on private@ will
> have seen a thread in which I side-topic'd with the feeling that the
> end should be nigh for Jakarta). Previously I've suggested that
> Commons should flatten into Jakarta and that Jakarta should become a
> general 'Java components' project; however there are some negatives to
> that that I think are critical.
>
> Firstly, it leaves the future Jakarta with a lot of dead projects that
> are going nowhere. That's not going to change in the short to medium
> term, so it just becomes a millstone for the project's neck.
>
> Secondly, the Jakarta PMC will always remain a big group of people who
> care about the brand name and the various legacies, rather than a
> small focused PMC. I think this isn't desirable for any active
> community that are a part of Jakarta currently - trying to have a PMC
> that are acting as one community when not being one community doesn't
> work.
>
> Thirdly, I think by being here we are helping to delay the inevitable
> and keeping the old, broken umbrella going. Moving to TLP will help
> things move along, and will provide a place for things to move to.
>
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
>
+1
We have talked about this lots of times before and some discussions
have had us breaking commons itself apart into pieces. My +1 is for
the whole of commons as an Apache TLP.
To answer some other questions that have come up before and will resurface:
+1 for only Java components (flame away, this is just my HO)
+1 for bringing sandbox along
+1 for welcoming small components from other Jakarta subprojects
+0 for waiting to do this until we have a clear idea of where the rest
of the Jakarta subprojects are going.
Phil
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
+1 to you :)
Mvgr,
Martin
Torsten Curdt wrote:
>
> On 06.05.2007, at 19:51, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> On 5/1/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and secondly,
>>> > > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
>>> >
>>> > As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one who is
>>> > pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
>>>
>>> A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
>>> very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else wants
>>> to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
>>
>> No one interested in volunteering as Commons chair?
>
> I would also do it
>
> (How come I am not in the list? Did I miss the call?)
>
> cheers
> --
> Torsten
>
>
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
+1 for doing it.
+1 for either Hen or Torsten as chair
Will add humble self to list (of members)
Phil
On 5/6/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/6/07, Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 06.05.2007, at 19:51, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >
> > > On 5/1/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and
> > >> secondly,
> > >> > > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
> > >> >
> > >> > As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one
> > >> who is
> > >> > pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
> > >>
> > >> A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
> > >> very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else
> > >> wants
> > >> to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
> > >
> > > No one interested in volunteering as Commons chair?
> >
> > I would also do it
>
> You've got my +1 :)
>
> > (How come I am not in the list? Did I miss the call?)
>
> Yep. Though when I do the vote on general I'll include a "Please add
> your name to the list if you're a commons developer and not listed
> yet".
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 5/6/07, Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 06.05.2007, at 19:51, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> > On 5/1/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and
> >> secondly,
> >> > > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
> >> >
> >> > As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one
> >> who is
> >> > pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
> >>
> >> A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
> >> very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else
> >> wants
> >> to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
> >
> > No one interested in volunteering as Commons chair?
>
> I would also do it
You've got my +1 :)
> (How come I am not in the list? Did I miss the call?)
Yep. Though when I do the vote on general I'll include a "Please add
your name to the list if you're a commons developer and not listed
yet".
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>.
On 06.05.2007, at 19:51, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 5/1/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and
>> secondly,
>> > > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
>> >
>> > As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one
>> who is
>> > pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
>>
>> A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
>> very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else
>> wants
>> to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
>
> No one interested in volunteering as Commons chair?
I would also do it
(How come I am not in the list? Did I miss the call?)
cheers
--
Torsten
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 5/1/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and secondly,
> > > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
> >
> > As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one who is
> > pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
>
> A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
> very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else wants
> to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
No one interested in volunteering as Commons chair?
Otherwise I'll go ahead and kick off a vote on Monday on general@jakarta.
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 5/1/07, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and secondly,
> > anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
>
> As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one who is
> pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
A bunch of projects do a one year term, which I think is probably a
very healthy thing. I'm happy to do the chair bit if no one else wants
to, but I'll happily support anyone if they're interested.
Hen
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 5/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> (http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and secondly,
> anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
As you are one of the most active persons here and also the one who is
pushing this forward: How about yourself? :-)
Jochen
--
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without ever returning as much as a single mouse. Fortunately, I've
got a wife who's a real champ: She leaves the house and returns within
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Re: [all] Going TLP?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/2/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So with that said - I'd like to propose that we move to commons.apache.org.
Apologies for the delay. I a) wanted to back off and see what effect
the proposal had on Jakarta, b) was on semi-vacation and c) was
subsequently ill.
We've three steps left (or two depending on how we choose to do them):
1) Signing up as initial members of the proposed Commons project
2) Volunteering/choosing a chair
3) Voting on general@jakarta [I figure people can be signing up during
that too].
So, firstly, feel free to go ahead and add your name to the resolution
(http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution) and secondly,
anyone want to volunteer to chair things?
Hen
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