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Posted to notifications@superset.apache.org by "Grahamwp (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org> on 2023/07/13 12:56:29 UTC

[GitHub] [superset] Grahamwp opened a new issue, #24688: SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers

Grahamwp opened a new issue, #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688

   When I make an SQL query with Superset, the resulting table seems to have some sort of autoscrolling features that barely work with either of my Windows screen readers, JAWS (my primary screen reader) and NVDA. They say the table has 55 rows (the number of rows in the query result) but I can barely scroll past four or five rows without either being told I'm at the bottom of the table or sometimes it autoscrolls to something like the 6th or 15th row. It barely works on NVDA and almost doesn't work at all with JAWS. I'm using the Superset instance at:
   https://superset.wmcloud.org/superset/sqllab/


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "wsxover (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

wsxover commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1747254184

> Libraries like react-virtualized and react-window can be configured to over-render rows so that there are some "next" and "previous" rows (not visible, but in the DOM) for screen readers.

Hmm. Depending on what exactly is going on that might be sufficient. But the symptoms Graham describe above sound more like react-virtualized getting confused by the navigation events JAWS and NVDA generate (jumping around, etc.) to me.

>So far as I understand, ARIA roles should be sufficient here (but maybe I'm mistaken).

As [MDN](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/Roles/table_role) repeats (no less than three times): "Using a native HTML table element whenever possible is strongly encouraged." And [Caniuse](https://caniuse.com/?search=aria-role) adds "Support for ARIA is rather complex and currently is not fully supported in any browser."

There's some info on JAWS support for ARIA in [JAWS-ARIA-Support.doc](https://support.freedomscientific.com/Content/Documents/Other/JAWS-ARIA-Support.doc) on Freedom Scientific's web site (note absence of any mention of tables). I haven't found similar documentation for NVDA. The [Accessibility Tree](https://developer.chrome.com/blog/full-accessibility-tree/) in Chrome DevTools may also help to figure out what JAWS' view of the faux table is (it uses the browser's accessibility API to get information about the web page).

I've no direct direct data on this, but in general terms using `div+aria` sounds iffy and I wouldn't personally have bet on it working correctly. Not that tables in HTML are that great, but they're a bit more of a known quantity. Especially when you go beyond the Big 4. JAWS in particular used to have heuristics to determine whether a table is a layout table or a data table, and a special "table mode" for navigating data tables, and this is the kind of thing I would have expected to break when not using a real table element.

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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "codeofdusk (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

codeofdusk commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1748028628

   > "Automatically set system focus to focusable elements" disabled
   
   This is the default (nvaccess/nvda#11190).


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "bvaughn (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

bvaughn commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1746857199

   > In visual user agents it is apparently trapping scroll events to then add the next rows into the DOM so they can be rendered
   
   Libraries like react-virtualized and react-window can be configured to over-render rows so that there are some "next" and "previous" rows (not visible, but in the DOM) for screen readers.
   
   > (if so I would recommend something that uses actual table markup instead of a bunch of div elements tweaked up to kinda sorta behave like one).
   >
   > That the result table is not accessible to screen readers is a rather critical problem IMO.
   
   So far as I understand, ARIA roles should be sufficient here (but maybe I'm mistaken).


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "rusackas (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

rusackas commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-2013088823

   Hi all... just wondering if there are any volunteers for this one. We'd love to see more volunteers on the [Accessibility project](https://github.com/orgs/Superset-Community-Partners/projects/1). 


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "codeofdusk (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

codeofdusk commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1748013570

   Also CCing @dbjorge and @madalynrose for ARIA expertise.


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "rusackas (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

rusackas closed issue #24688: SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "Simon818 (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

Simon818 commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1748026758

> The fix would require @bvaughn to figure out the events triggered by JAWS/NVDA and use those...

I can't speak to JAWS but when you have the option "Automatically set system focus to focusable elements" disabled. NVDA doesn't generate events at all. it is possible for NVDA's virtual cursor to be on a section of the page that isn't visually visible. I don't know a way around this besides simply rendering all rows in the DOM. I am also a bit skeptical about fudging an entire table structure with ARIA but I have technically seen it done in a way that is readable with NVDA, so i'm not going to definitively say it's impractical. My understanding is that when ARIA roles are defined properly, the controls should "look" like their given ARIA role and the screen reader may not even be able to tell the difference between that and native controls. The main problem I can foresee with tables is the complexity of maintaining the table itself, the headers, the rows, and the cells and having the ARIA line up well enough for screen readers to read them; however, if the framework claims to tak
e care of that we could at least test to see whether screen readers play nice with the tale as long as all rows are rendered. It seems like a reasonable initial step.

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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "Grahamwp (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

Grahamwp commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1747997303

   I don't personally know much about ARIA but I'd strongly recommend using a native HTML table here, for reliability and consistency, if nothing else. I asked a friend of mine who also uses a screen reader (primarily NVDA on Windows) and knows more about this sort of thing, @codeofdusk, and he very much agreed with me.


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "wsxover (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

wsxover commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-1746274788

   This is probably because the result table is using [React Virtualized](http://bvaughn.github.io/react-virtualized/) which only renders "visible" rows. As such only about 5 rows are going to be present in the DOM where a screen reader can get at them. In visual user agents it is apparently trapping scroll events to then add the next rows into the DOM so they can be rendered, but this seems to not be working with the navigation events the mentioned screen readers are using.
   
   The fix would require @bvaughn to figure out the events triggered by JAWS/NVDA and use those; or for Superset to switch to something other than React Virtualized as a framework (if so I would recommend something that uses actual table markup instead of a bunch of `div` elements tweaked up to kinda sorta behave like one).
   
   That the result table is not accessible to screen readers is a rather critical problem IMO.


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Re: [I] SQL results tables: apparent autoscrolling is inaccessible to screen readers [superset]

Posted by "rusackas (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>.

rusackas commented on issue #24688:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/24688#issuecomment-2657471260

   I think this issue is now out of date, since the results table is based on AG Grid, and thus the circumstances have changed. If there are accessibility issues with the upgraded component, I would advise opening a new issue, but we can also reopen this one and add fresh context. 


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