You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> on 2014/09/08 14:12:05 UTC
Where is the error.log gone?
Hi,
I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it has been removed OOTB?
Jacques
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 09/09/2014 10:27, Adrian Crum a écrit :
> Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques. That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be his
> personal project.
I surely not, it's only that Git is missing the ignore-on-commit svn feature and I dislike having to uncheck, take care of it each time I need to
commit :/
If you guys can't stand having desktop.ini in .gitignore file (it's a property in svn) I willl remove them, but seriously this is all completely
ridiculous!
Jacques
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/9/2014 9:12 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>
>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good,
>> well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going
>> too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques.
That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be
his personal project.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/9/2014 9:12 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>
> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
>
> Jacopo
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 09/09/2014 11:42, Adrian Crum a écrit :
> Jacques,
>
> You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not understanding our replies.
Thanks for clearing my brain :D
>
> You are saying:
>
> 1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
> 2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.
>
> Jacopo and I are saying:
>
> 1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to modify them on their local copy.
> 2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free to add them to their local copy.
> 3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of the trunk.
1) Seriously, *we had* the error.log before and I see no serious reasons and arguments in Jacopo's, Scott's and your answers to *remove it*. I find it
particularly handy when I want to quickly know the current issues (often minors) in a custom deployment. Without having to grep and such, just read a
short plain text file with all the errors collected in, no needs to look backward in zip files, etc.
2) Thank you for your permission of using my tools on my machine :)
Jacques
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> My answer was
>> >What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>> log4j2.xml will make it messy
>>
>> I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
>> the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
>> stand as an argument to me.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> Jacques,
>>>
>>> you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
>>>>>> we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>>>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
>>>>> (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
>>>>> maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
>>>>> trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
>>>>> that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
>>>>> clean.
>>>> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>>>> log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
>>>> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
>>>> like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
>>>> except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
>>>> would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
>>>> symptom.
>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
> default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
> the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.
>
Exactly: we shouldn't try to step in sys admin's shoes by trying to imagine and pre-configure OFBiz.
Keep it as simple as possible without pretending to understand other's needs.
Jacopo
> We also have to consider that not all development effort takes place in
> this project, but also at user sites. Would we help those organisations and
> their staff by leaving it out and having them take extra steps to get it in
> again?
>
> If you can't find consensus amongst your selfs, ask the community.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the
>> project
>>> and its community.
>>
>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>
>> Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.
We also have to consider that not all development effort takes place in
this project, but also at user sites. Would we help those organisations and
their staff by leaving it out and having them take extra steps to get it in
again?
If you can't find consensus amongst your selfs, ask the community.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the
> project
> > and its community.
>
> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>
> Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 12, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Yes, I like this option!
Jacopo
> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>> commented out sections for error.log
>>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>
>> And for whom
>>>
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>>>>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>
>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 12/09/2014 09:25, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
> about!
Though it seems Openhub only refers to comments in Java, we have a lot of comments in XML
It was just an example to explain why I'd like to follow Nicolas's suggestion and add explaining comments in log4j2.xml
Jacques
>
> Didn't know it existed. How OFBiz is perceived by others should be part of
> the considerations regarding future roadmaps and (short term) plans.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's
>> not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
>> well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search
>> online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred
>> over svn for this reason)
>>
>> And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation,
>> it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for
>> instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/
>> Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow
>>
>> But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of
>> error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>
>>> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
>>> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>>>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>>>> commented out sections for error.log
>>>>
>>>> Agreed?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> And for whom
>>>>
>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>>>>>>>> possible,
>>>>>>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>>>>>>> site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
about!
Didn't know it existed. How OFBiz is perceived by others should be part of
the considerations regarding future roadmaps and (short term) plans.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's
> not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
> well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search
> online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred
> over svn for this reason)
>
> And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation,
> it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for
> instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/
> Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow
>
> But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of
> error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
>> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>>> commented out sections for error.log
>>>
>>> Agreed?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>
>>> And for whom
>>>
>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>
>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>
>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>>>>>>> possible,
>>>>>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>>>>>> site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>>>>>
>>>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred
over svn for this reason)
And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation, it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for
instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow
But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!
Jacques
Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>> commented out sections for error.log
>>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>
>> And for whom
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>>>>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>
>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
But a JIRA issue of the improvement type with a patch might also do the
trick. Users can then decide whether they leave it as is, or implement the
patch and have more insight.
It helps the user.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>> commented out sections for error.log
>>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>
>> And for whom
>>>
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>>>>>> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>
>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
> commented out sections for error.log
>
> Agreed?
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
> And for whom
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>
>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>>>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>
>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>
>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>>>> and help uncover some other view.
>>>>
>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>>>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>
>>>> Nicolas
>>>>
>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
I would be in favor of adding more comments if it will help end users
configure their local copy.
But keep in mind those comments remove the necessity of adding the error
log to the trunk - since they will know how to enable it themselves.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 1:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
> Le 15/09/2014 14:29, Adrian Crum a écrit :
>> The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut
>> up about it.
>
> I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and
> assigned it to myself.
> My plan is to propose and alternative log4j2.xml with some inline
> comments (never hurt if maintained) and to put back error.log. This is
> in a patch submitted at OFBIZ-5287.
> Then I will to ask users (on user ML) to vote for putting back the
> error.log or not. This is called democracy and majority will tell us. I
> have not much hope, but I want to try.
>
> Jacques
>>
>> If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you
>> did making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and
>> sysadmins would have the log configurations they need.
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
>>> practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
>>> that is good enough for the majority of the users.
>>>
>>> I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
>>> prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
>>> So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
>>> implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
>>> operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone
>>> to go
>>> into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
>>> those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
>>> having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default
>>> that
>>> is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
>>> Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
>>> majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.
>>>
>>> That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is
>>> beside
>>> the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as
>>> well. It
>>> seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
>>> others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree the importance is in the arguments.
>>>>
>>>> You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log
>>>> settings in
>>>> a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have
>>>> pointed
>>>> out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being
>>>> forced
>>>> to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production
>>>> environment
>>>> using the OOTB settings.
>>>>
>>>> So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
>>>> argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not
>>>> in the
>>>> best interest of the community.
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>
>>>> On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
>>>>> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
>>>>> wonder
>>>>> whether you have the best interest of other community members and
>>>>> users at
>>>>> heart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits
>>>>> <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative
>>>>> impact on
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray
>>>>>> <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a
>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EVERYONE to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> spend time and money to get it back in?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>>>>>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>>>>>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure
>>>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can
>>>>>>>>> easily
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the
>>>>>>>>>> same way
>>>>>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is
>>>>>>>>>>> redundant and
>>>>>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few
>>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge
>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and
>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>>>>>>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error
>>>>>>>>>>> identification/reporting
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> costs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has
>>>>>>>>>>>> adopted
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc),
>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions ways;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it; you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 15/09/2014 16:13, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it to myself.
> Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you want to continue to waste our time on the error.log thing at least please create a new ticket for it. At least the release roadmap will be clean.
Good point
Jacques
>
> Jacopo
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it to myself.
Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you want to continue to waste our time on the error.log thing at least please create a new ticket for it. At least the release roadmap will be clean.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 15/09/2014 14:29, Adrian Crum a écrit :
> The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up about it.
I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it to myself.
My plan is to propose and alternative log4j2.xml with some inline comments (never hurt if maintained) and to put back error.log. This is in a patch
submitted at OFBIZ-5287.
Then I will to ask users (on user ML) to vote for putting back the error.log or not. This is called democracy and majority will tell us. I have not
much hope, but I want to try.
Jacques
>
> If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you did making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and sysadmins
> would have the log configurations they need.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
>> practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
>> that is good enough for the majority of the users.
>>
>> I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
>> prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
>> So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
>> implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
>> operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
>> into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
>> those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
>> having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
>> is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
>> Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
>> majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.
>>
>> That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
>> the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as well. It
>> seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
>> others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree the importance is in the arguments.
>>>
>>> You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
>>> a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
>>> out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
>>> to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
>>> using the OOTB settings.
>>>
>>> So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
>>> argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
>>> best interest of the community.
>>>
>>> Adrian Crum
>>> Sandglass Software
>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>
>>> On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>
>>>> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
>>>> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>>>>
>>>> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
>>>> wonder
>>>> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
>>>> heart.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>>>>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> EVERYONE to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> spend time and money to get it back in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>>>>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>>>>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>>>>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>>>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few
>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>>>>>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> costs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi All,
Before I open a vote for this, please check https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5771
Jacques
Le 17/09/2014 08:50, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> The first 'in person' hangout is at Apachecon 2014, in Budapest, Hungary.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Paul Piper <pp...@ilscipio.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 on my end as well. It would allow us to answer newcomer-questions and
>> also
>> make it easier to discuss important topics that have the tendency to get
>> heated.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655319.html
>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
The first 'in person' hangout is at Apachecon 2014, in Budapest, Hungary.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Paul Piper <pp...@ilscipio.com> wrote:
> +1 on my end as well. It would allow us to answer newcomer-questions and
> also
> make it easier to discuss important topics that have the tendency to get
> heated.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655319.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Paul Piper <pp...@ilscipio.com>.
+1 on my end as well. It would allow us to answer newcomer-questions and also
make it easier to discuss important topics that have the tendency to get
heated.
--
View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655319.html
Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Mike Bates <mi...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
This sounds like a great idea to me Jacopo. I want to come to the hang outs!
The recent argumentative tone on the list is certainly not ideal, but IMO it is at least evidence that there are many of us who care a lot about OFBiz and its future. So we have that in common!
To spend some time together in a google hangout (or similar) would help us remember that there are amazing human beings with quirks and strengths and weaknesses and the whole ball of wax behind those email messages.
So count me in, it sounds like fun!
Best regards,
Mike
On Sep 16, 2014, at 11:25 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems that the key contributors might benefit from a collaboration session with the whole multi-media support under the supervision of the chairperson to get a team strategy and reinforce the team spirit that is supposed to drive Apache projects.
>
> This is something I was considering since a long time, thanks for mentioning it.
> We could have monthly Google Hangouts (or similar technology) to meet and know each other
> I don't think we should discuss team strategies, tasks priorities, the future of the project or similar... these are topics that is better to discuss in the mailing list for a series of reasons (visibility, time zones, log history etc...).
> It could be in the form of a "virtual pizza" (my Italian hat on, but Jacques can have escargot ;-) ) where the participants have some food and can chit chat of light topics (possibly not OFBiz).
> After all these years in the OFBiz community it would be good to know each other from a different point of view... and maybe this will help to remove some of the friction that we experience in this community.
> We could give it a try... at least we will not be able to stub each other during the hangout.
>
> Jacopo
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>.
Even if you discuss substantial issues related to the project, you can
document the discussion in the mailing list and continue it there.
If you come up with something controversial, you might get more people
coming to the Hangout the next time.
Ron
On 16/09/2014 1:25 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems that the key contributors might benefit from a collaboration session with the whole multi-media support under the supervision of the chairperson to get a team strategy and reinforce the team spirit that is supposed to drive Apache projects.
> This is something I was considering since a long time, thanks for mentioning it.
> We could have monthly Google Hangouts (or similar technology) to meet and know each other
> I don't think we should discuss team strategies, tasks priorities, the future of the project or similar... these are topics that is better to discuss in the mailing list for a series of reasons (visibility, time zones, log history etc...).
> It could be in the form of a "virtual pizza" (my Italian hat on, but Jacques can have escargot ;-) ) where the participants have some food and can chit chat of light topics (possibly not OFBiz).
> After all these years in the OFBiz community it would be good to know each other from a different point of view... and maybe this will help to remove some of the friction that we experience in this community.
> We could give it a try... at least we will not be able to stub each other during the hangout.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> It seems that the key contributors might benefit from a collaboration session with the whole multi-media support under the supervision of the chairperson to get a team strategy and reinforce the team spirit that is supposed to drive Apache projects.
This is something I was considering since a long time, thanks for mentioning it.
We could have monthly Google Hangouts (or similar technology) to meet and know each other
I don't think we should discuss team strategies, tasks priorities, the future of the project or similar... these are topics that is better to discuss in the mailing list for a series of reasons (visibility, time zones, log history etc...).
It could be in the form of a "virtual pizza" (my Italian hat on, but Jacques can have escargot ;-) ) where the participants have some food and can chit chat of light topics (possibly not OFBiz).
After all these years in the OFBiz community it would be good to know each other from a different point of view... and maybe this will help to remove some of the friction that we experience in this community.
We could give it a try... at least we will not be able to stub each other during the hangout.
Jacopo
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>.
Where are the adults in this project?
This conversation has no business in a user forum.
If you need to vent or feel that a personal attack is required, do it on
Twitter or Facebook or better yet write yourself a memo and put it in a
drawer to read later (year or two).
If there is a serious technical disagreement where a consensus can not
be reached through the JIRA comment process, sort it out in a Project
Management Meeting and make a decision that is binding on the team. Then
stop the bickering and get on with it.
People who absolutely can not stay in business with an OFBiz suffering
from the results of the decision will have to fork the project.
It seems that the key contributors might benefit from a collaboration
session with the whole multi-media support under the supervision of the
chairperson to get a team strategy and reinforce the team spirit that is
supposed to drive Apache projects.
If the role of chairperson is contentious in gaining consensus on
mission and strategy, perhaps someone from the ASF might be a good
chairperson.
Ron
On 16/09/2014 4:01 AM, Paul Piper wrote:
> If i ever had any respect for you or your contributions, Anil, this would
> have certainly put an end to it. Jacques is the reason many of us contribute
> to the community and quite possibly the most friendly face around.
>
>
> Anil Patel-3 wrote
>> Interesting, message.
>>
>> I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if
>> Jacques was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
>>
>> Regards
>> Anil Patel
>>
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker <
>> mailinglist@
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without
>>> him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
>>>
>>> Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me
>>> to let himhave it.
>>>
>>> Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important
>>> subjects?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hans
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655274.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Paul Piper <pp...@ilscipio.com>.
If i ever had any respect for you or your contributions, Anil, this would
have certainly put an end to it. Jacques is the reason many of us contribute
to the community and quite possibly the most friendly face around.
Anil Patel-3 wrote
> Interesting, message.
>
> I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if
> Jacques was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
>
> Regards
> Anil Patel
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker <
> mailinglist@
> > wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without
>> him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
>>
>> Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me
>> to let himhave it.
>>
>> Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important
>> subjects?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hans
--
View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655274.html
Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up
about it.
If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you did
making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and sysadmins
would have the log configurations they need.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
> practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
> that is good enough for the majority of the users.
>
> I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
> prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
> So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
> implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
> operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
> into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
> those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
> having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
> is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
> Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
> majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.
>
> That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
> the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as well. It
> seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
> others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree the importance is in the arguments.
>>
>> You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
>> a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
>> out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
>> to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
>> using the OOTB settings.
>>
>> So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
>> argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
>> best interest of the community.
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>
>>> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
>>> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>>>
>>> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
>>> wonder
>>> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
>>> heart.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but
>>>>> that's
>>>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>>>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>>>>>>
>>>>> EVERYONE to
>>>>>
>>>>>> spend time and money to get it back in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>>>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>>>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>>>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> different.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>
>>>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few
>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>>>>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> costs
>>>>>
>>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>
>>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it but
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.
I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.
That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as well. It
seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> I agree the importance is in the arguments.
>
> You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
> a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
> out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
> to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
> using the OOTB settings.
>
> So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
> argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
> best interest of the community.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
>> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>>
>> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
>> wonder
>> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
>> heart.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but
>>>> that's
>>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>>>>>
>>>> EVERYONE to
>>>>
>>>>> spend time and money to get it back in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>>>>>
>>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> fix
>>>>
>>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>>>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> costs
>>>>
>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>
>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it but
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread
>>>>>>>>>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
I agree the importance is in the arguments.
You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings
in a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have
pointed out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is
being forced to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a
production environment using the OOTB settings.
So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in
the best interest of the community.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>
> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me wonder
> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
> heart.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but that's
>>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>>> EVERYONE to
>>>> spend time and money to get it back in?
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>>>> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>
>>>>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>>>>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>>>>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>> different.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>>>>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>>> fix
>>>>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>>>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>>>>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>>>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>>> costs
>>>>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>>>>> identification
>>>>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>>>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>>> it but
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back
>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
This is not just about the fact that changes can be made by anybody in
their own implementations. This is also a message to all prospective users
of OFBiz, and to the organisations who are trying to sell OFBiz as a
solution to their prospective customers.
'OFBiz doesn't have an error log OOTB' is a stupid message to convey to
those parties.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> I'm not trying to force anything, I didn't make the change. I'm just
> stating my opinion in this debate the same as you or anyone else. Even the
> change is not about forcing anyone into a specific workflow, the debate is
> about making sensible defaults for OFBiz. Changes can be made to suit
> anyone's needs in their respective checkouts.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 9:19 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
> >
> > But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides
> no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz
> errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the
> error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
> >>
> >> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a
> basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log
> files.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
> >>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> >>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
> identification
> >>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> >>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
> >>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> >>>
> >>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> >>>
> >>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
> >>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
> >>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On what basis?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I support reverting this regression.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> >>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
> error.log in
> >>>>>> log4j2.xml
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
> logging:
> >>>> it
> >>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than
> the
> >>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it
> but
> >>>> me or
> >>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
> since
> >>>> no
> >>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> >>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
> >>>> other;
> >>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have
> been
> >>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of
> this
> >>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
> but I
> >>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jacopo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
I'm not trying to force anything, I didn't make the change. I'm just stating my opinion in this debate the same as you or anyone else. Even the change is not about forcing anyone into a specific workflow, the debate is about making sensible defaults for OFBiz. Changes can be made to suit anyone's needs in their respective checkouts.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 9:19 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>
> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>
>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log files.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>
>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>
>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On what basis?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
>>>> it
>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>> me or
>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
>>>> no
>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>> other;
>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Nicolas Malin <ma...@librenberry.net>.
And in finaly, why not just adding this :
Index: framework/base/config/log4j2.xml
===================================================================
--- framework/base/config/log4j2.xml (révision 1625001)
+++ framework/base/config/log4j2.xml (copie de travail)
@@ -1,4 +1,8 @@
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
+<!-- This file contains few configuration and make more your self your
are a super man !
+ If isn't the case, for more configuration as example, see
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/AnotherBetterWayToConfigureLog4j2
+ Or use the web like
http://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/manual/configuration.html
+-->
<Configuration monitorInterval="60">
<Appenders>
<Console name="stdout" target="SYSTEM_OUT">
Le 15/09/2014 12:09, Adrian Crum a écrit :
> Jacques,
>
> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>
> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>
> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
> do so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>
>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>
>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>> investigating log files.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>>>> costs
>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>> identification
>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>
>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>
>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray
>>>> <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>>>>>>> it but
>>>>> me or
>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>> since
>>>>> no
>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>>> other;
>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
No one is being forced to configure their deployment - it is a process
(and cost) associated with EVERY OFBiz installation, regardless of the
outcome of this discussion.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 11:14 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
> spend time and money to get it back in?
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>
>> Jacques,
>>
>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>
>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>>
>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>
>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>
>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>
>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>
>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>> identification
>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>
>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>
>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:50 AM, Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com> wrote:
> ...
> Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important subjects?
Hans, I agree with you on this, there are more important subjects to deal with and this error.log story has gone too far.
Someone has to step back a bit, I guess...
Ok, if Jacques will commit the error.log configuration (or jacques.log) then I will do my best to stay busy with something else and ignore that commit.
Jacopo
>
> Regards,
> Hans
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
What a short sighted remark from someone who hasn't contributed to this
project as much as Jacques over the years. Not by a long shot.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:11 AM, Anil Patel <an...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> Interesting, message.
>
> I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if
> Jacques was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
>
> Regards
> Anil Patel
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without
> him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
> >
> > Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me
> to let himhave it.
> >
> > Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important
> subjects?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Hans
>
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Rupert Howell <ru...@provolve.com>.
Put that comment to a vote Anil. Let's see how many people you don't
even know that read and monitor these lists every day agree with you.
I quite liked the error log. I wasn't married to it - but it was
fairly handy to see if it was massive there was something amiss. If
there was a vote to keep it I'd probably vote yes.
>From an outsider looking in this thread is doing nothing to promote
the OFBiz "community spirit" and in fact highlights quite a serious
"My bat, My ball" mentality that is now intrinsic here. Something
handy was there for years then removed. Jacques questioned it and has
spent the last few days being taken apart and at times it's getting
personal.
Just put it to a vote.
Rupert Howell
Provolve Ltd.
Technopole
Kingston Crescent
Portsmouth
PO2 8FA
07909 685308
http://www.provolve.com
> On 16 Sep 2014, at 02:11, Anil Patel <an...@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting, message.
>
> I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if Jacques was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
>
> Regards
> Anil Patel
>
>
>> On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
>>
>> Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me to let himhave it.
>>
>> Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important subjects?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hans
>
Re: Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Anil Patel <an...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Interesting, message.
I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if Jacques was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
Regards
Anil Patel
On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
>
> Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me to let himhave it.
>
> Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important subjects?
>
> Regards,
> Hans
Please stop! was: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com>.
Gentlemen,
seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without
him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me
to let himhave it.
Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important
subjects?
Regards,
Hans
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but that's
>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>> EVERYONE to
>> > spend time and money to get it back in?
>> >
>> > Pierre Smits
>> >
>> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> > Services and Retail & Trade
>> > http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>> > adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Jacques,
>> >>
>> >> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> >> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>> >>
>> >> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> >> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>> different.
>> >>
>> >> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>> >> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>> >>
>> >> Adrian Crum
>> >> Sandglass Software
>> >> www.sandglass-software.com
>> >>
>> >> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>> fix
>> >>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>> >>>
>> >>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>> >>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>> >>>
>> >>> Jacques
>> >>>
>> >>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>> >>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>> >>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>> >>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>> >>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>> >>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>> >>>> investigating log files.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards
>> >>>> Scott
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>> costs
>> >>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>> >>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>> >>>>> identification
>> >>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>> >>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>> >>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>> OFBiz
>> >>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>> >>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> >>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> >>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> >>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On what basis?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards
>> >>>>>> Scott
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> >>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> >>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> >>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>> >>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> >>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>> >>>>>>>>> error.log in
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>> >>>>>>>> logging:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>> >>>>>>>> than the
>> >>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like
>> it but
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> me or
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>> >>>>>>>> since
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> no
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back
>> this
>> >>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better
>> than
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> other;
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>> >>>>>>>> have been
>> >>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>> >>>>>>>> of this
>> >>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>> >>>>>>>> but I
>> >>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Jacopo
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but that's
> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE
> to
> > spend time and money to get it back in?
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> > adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Jacques,
> >>
> >> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
> >> *force* everyone to do things your way.
> >>
> >> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
> >> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
> >>
> >> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
> >> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
> >>
> >> Adrian Crum
> >> Sandglass Software
> >> www.sandglass-software.com
> >>
> >> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
> fix
> >>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
> >>>
> >>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
> >>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
> >>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
> >>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
> >>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
> >>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
> >>>>
> >>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
> >>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
> >>>> investigating log files.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
> costs
> >>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> >>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
> >>>>> identification
> >>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> >>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
> >>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
> OFBiz
> >>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
> >>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
> scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On what basis?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> >>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
> >>>>>>>>> error.log in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
> >>>>>>>> logging:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
> >>>>>>>> than the
> >>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it
> but
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> me or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
> >>>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> no
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> >>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> other;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
> >>>>>>>> have been
> >>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
> >>>>>>>> of this
> >>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
> >>>>>>>> but I
> >>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jacopo
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but that's debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
> spend time and money to get it back in?
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>
>> Jacques,
>>
>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>
>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>>
>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>
>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>
>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>
>>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>>
>>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>>> investigating log files.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>>> identification
>>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>>
>>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>>
>>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
spend time and money to get it back in?
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> Jacques,
>
> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>
> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>
> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>
>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>
>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>
>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>> investigating log files.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>>> identification
>>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>>
>>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>>
>>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On what basis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>>> logging:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> me or
>>>>>
>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> no
>>>>>
>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> other;
>>>>>
>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
Jacques,
That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.
That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>
> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times
>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>
>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>> investigating log files.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>>> identification
>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>>
>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>>
>>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On what basis?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
>>>>>>> error.log in
>>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>>>>> logging:
>>>> it
>>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>>>>> than the
>>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>> me or
>>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>>>>> since
>>>> no
>>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>> other;
>>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>>>>> have been
>>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>>>>> of this
>>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
Jacques
Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>
> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log files.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>
>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>
>> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On what basis?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
>>> it
>>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>> me or
>>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
>>> no
>>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>> other;
>>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log files.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>
> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>
> - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
> systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
> - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On what basis?
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>>>> log4j2.xml
>>>>
>>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
>> it
>>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>> me or
>>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
>> no
>>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>> other;
>>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>>
>>>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 20000, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
- going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
- getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> On what basis?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I support reverting this regression.
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> > jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
> >> log4j2.xml
> >>
> >> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
> it
> >> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
> >> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
> me or
> >> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
> no
> >> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> >> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
> other;
> >> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> >>
> >>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >>
> >> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
> >> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
> >> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
> >> will not start to fight with you.
> >>
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On what basis?
Regards
Scott
On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I support reverting this regression.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>> log4j2.xml
>>
>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it
>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or
>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no
>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than other;
>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>
>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>>
>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>> will not start to fight with you.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
I support reverting this regression.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
> log4j2.xml
>
> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it
> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or
> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no
> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than other;
> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>
> > and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>
> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
> will not start to fight with you.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
If consensus can't be reached between the two of you, then a vote amongst
the community members would surely help find the direction we should follow.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappellato@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok, if you want, call a vote
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have
> been trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of
> this thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but
> I will not start to fight with you.
> >
> > You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there
> before. I call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its
> removing before you did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >>
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
ok, if you want, call a vote
Jacopo
On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will not start to fight with you.
>
> You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there before. I call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its removing before you did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?
>
> Jacques
>
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will not start to fight with you.
You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there before. I call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its removing before
you did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?
Jacques
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml
Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than other; for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will not start to fight with you.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Similar like not having a balance sheet and income statement in an
accounting statement and putting it of with 'you can use a grep-equivalent'
to retrieve the information on the financial health of the organisation to
report to the stakeholders.
An automated process to generate an error.log file has a better tco than
having an operator grep it daily from an other, more extensive log file to
report on errors.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> How so?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 8:42 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cost more time, more money...
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxmedia.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the
> same
> >> result.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> >> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> >> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> >> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >>>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors
> >> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
> >> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For
> >> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to
> understand
> >> the context of the error.
> >>>
> >>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
> >> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities,
> notably
> >> when in development step with a team.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for asking
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
> >>>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time
> was
> >> finished
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
> >> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
> >> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for
> modifications
> >> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> >>>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
> >> something about it
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
> >> already explained them
> >>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> >> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> >> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> >> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >>>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
> >> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
> >> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> Could
> >> you explain your reasons please?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
> >> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
> >> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Jacopo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Agreed?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> >>>>>>>> And for whom
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
> >> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal
> preferences.
> >>>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
> >> site.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
> >> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
> >> context explication of the reason to use it.
> >>>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
> >> simple and help uncover some other view.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
> >> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
> >> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
How so?
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 8:42 pm, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cost more time, more money...
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
> wrote:
>
>> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same
>> result.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
>> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
>> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors
>> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
>> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For
>> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
>> the context of the error.
>>>
>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
>> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
>> when in development step with a team.
>>>
>>> Thanks for asking
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
>> finished
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
>> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
>> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications
>> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
>> something about it
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
>> already explained them
>>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
>> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
>> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
>> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
>> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could
>> you explain your reasons please?
>>>>>
>>>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
>> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
>> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>> site.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
>> simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
>> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
>> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Cost more time, more money...
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
wrote:
> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same
> result.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors
> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For
> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
> the context of the error.
> >
> > To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
> when in development step with a team.
> >
> > Thanks for asking
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
> >>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
> finished
> >>>>
> >>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> >>>>>
> >>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications
> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> >>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
> something about it
> >>>
> >>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
> already explained them
> >>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> >>>
> >>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could
> you explain your reasons please?
> >>>
> >>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Jacopo
> >>>>
> >>>>> Agreed?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> >>>>>> And for whom
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
> >>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
> site.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
> context explication of the reason to use it.
> >>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
> simple and help uncover some other view.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Not only that, but many of the larger organisations I have worked for had
automated processes in place that emailed the daily error logs to specific
officers, so that not only first level sys admins had that information. And
this had all to do with certifications, CRG, etc. And cost of operations of
course.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
>
> Now consider this with no error.log
> You have to
> 1) login (how many machines?)
> 2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
> 3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a
> terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR"
> ofbiz.log > error.log"
> 4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
> 5) reiterate when things change...
>
> With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs
> opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update
> and search, etc.
>
> I guess you see my points?
>
> I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put
> back the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :
>
> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same
>> result.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>
>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor
>>>>> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean,
>>>>> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>>>>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>>>
>>>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors
>>>> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
>>>> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For
>>>> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
>>>> the context of the error.
>>>>
>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
>>> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
>>> when in development step with a team.
>>>
>>> Thanks for asking
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
>>>>>> finished
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
>>>>>>> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config
>>>>>> file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for
>>>>>> modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>>>>>
>>>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
>>>>> something about it
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
>>>>> already explained them
>>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
>>>>> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
>>>>> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>>>>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
>>>>> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
>>>>> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could
>>>>> you explain your reasons please?
>>>>>
>>>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
>>>>> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
>>>>> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>>>>>>>>>>> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>>>>>>>>>> site.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>>>>>>>>>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>>>>>>>>>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
>>>>>>>>>> simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
>>>>>>>>>> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
>>>>>>>>> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
I use ssh and terminal for all log research (until I need to dig deeply, in which case I download the logs and split the them into individual threads, again because context is so important). When I need to monitor logs for errors connect via ssh and use tail + grep, after a deployment for example.
I guess you have a different workflow, which is fine. I'm just surprised that so much value is placed in the error.log files since I personally find them to be almost useless and am glad to have them out of the way.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 9:16 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
>
> Now consider this with no error.log
> You have to
> 1) login (how many machines?)
> 2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
> 3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log > error.log"
> 4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
> 5) reiterate when things change...
>
> With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update and search, etc.
>
> I guess you see my points?
>
> I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put back the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same result.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.
>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when in development step with a team.
>>>
>>> Thanks for asking
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
>>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you explain your reasons please?
>>>>>
>>>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
Now consider this with no error.log
You have to
1) login (how many machines?)
2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log
> error.log"
4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
5) reiterate when things change...
With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update
and search, etc.
I guess you see my points?
I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put back the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/
Jacques
Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :
> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same result.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.
>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when in development step with a team.
>>
>> Thanks for asking
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>>>>>
>>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>>>
>>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
>>>>
>>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
>>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you explain your reasons please?
>>>>
>>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same result.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.
>
> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when in development step with a team.
>
> Thanks for asking
>
> Jacques
>
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>>>>
>>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>>
>>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
>>>
>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>>
>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you explain your reasons please?
>>>
>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>> Agreed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.
To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
when in development step with a team.
Thanks for asking
Jacques
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>>>
>>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>>
>>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
>>
>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>>
>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you explain your reasons please?
>>
>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>> Agreed?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>>> And for whom
>>>>>
>>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>>
>>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.
Regards
Scott
On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>>
>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>
>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>
> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
>
> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you explain your reasons please?
>
> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>
> Jacques
>
>
>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>> Agreed?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>> And for whom
>>>>
>>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>>
>>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
>
>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>
> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something about it
I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already explained them
If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside
tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in all places I would have to in future :/
I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you
explain your reasons please?
For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both
is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
Jacques
> Jacopo
>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>> And for whom
>>>
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>>
>>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>
So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
Jacopo
> Agreed?
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>> And for whom
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>>
>>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>>
>>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>>
>>>> Nicolas
>>>>
>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented
out sections for error.log
Agreed?
Jacques
Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> And for whom
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>
>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>>
>>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>>
>>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>>
>>> Nicolas
>>>
>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>
>> Jacques
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
And for whom
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
>
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>>
>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication of the reason to use it.
>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>>
>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>
> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>
> Jacques
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>
> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context
> explication of the reason to use it.
> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help uncover some other view.
>
> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>
> Nicolas
>
That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
Jacques
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Nicolas Malin <ma...@librenberry.net>.
Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains
few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context
explication of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
and help uncover some other view.
No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with
my own method to deploy them :)
Nicolas
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the project
> and its community.
This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Ok... Viewpoints are made clear.
But ask yourself this:
- What is better for the community, leaving it in or leaving it out?
Think of the default user, not of the exeption
- How much will it affect performance when left in or out?
In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the project
and its community.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> Jacques,
>
> You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
> understanding our replies.
>
> You are saying:
>
> 1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
> 2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.
>
> Jacopo and I are saying:
>
> 1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to
> modify them on their local copy.
> 2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free to
> add them to their local copy.
> 3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of
> the trunk.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> My answer was
>> >What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>> log4j2.xml will make it messy
>>
>> I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
>> the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
>> stand as an argument to me.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>
>>> Jacques,
>>>
>>> you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
>>>>>> we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
>>>>> (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
>>>>> maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
>>>>> trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
>>>>> that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
>>>>> clean.
>>>>>
>>>> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>>>> log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
>>>> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
>>>> like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
>>>> except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
>>>> would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
>>>> symptom.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
Jacques,
You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
understanding our replies.
You are saying:
1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.
Jacopo and I are saying:
1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to
modify them on their local copy.
2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free
to add them to their local copy.
3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of
the trunk.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> My answer was
> >What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
> log4j2.xml will make it messy
>
> I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
> the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
> stand as an argument to me.
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> Jacques,
>>
>> you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
>>>>> we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
>>>> (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
>>>> maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
>>>> trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
>>>> that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
>>>> clean.
>>> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>>> log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
>>> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
>>> like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
>>> except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
>>> would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
>>> symptom.
>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
My answer was
>What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will make it messy
I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not stand
as an argument to me.
Jacques
Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> Jacques,
>
> you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
>> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
>> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the symptom.
>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
Jacques,
you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
Jacopo
On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
>
> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the symptom.
>
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have
an extremely big issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the symptom.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Yes, I was maybe abusing there indeed. But note that I did not add a tool in the repo, only added something to ignore it. This should be transparent
to everybody.
Like for the desktop.ini entry in the .*ignore files I don't see a reason to not add a readymade patch for console.log. Again, it would be transparent
to everybody, but convenient for those who want it.
I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
Now about the error.log, I will re-add it. I think it makes sense and is not really complicating log4j2.xml.
Jacques
Le 09/09/2014 08:30, Adrian Crum a écrit :
> Jacopo,
>
> Thank you for mentioning the .svnignore and .gitignore commit - that bothers me too. We should be ignoring things in the repo, not our personal
> modifications.
>
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/9/2014 7:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [...] On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you
>>> are against multiplying them. [...]
>>
>> This is not what I wrote in my previous email; quoting here for your convenience:
>>
>> "The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer
>> to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences."
>>
>>> I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully you have not that
>>> much error in your instance.
>>>
>>> The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand
>>> then will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the repo, ready to use...
>>
>> Please, don't do this: let's all try to keep the public repo as clean as possible without adding stuff to facilitate our personal workflow; for
>> example, the commit you did yesterday to .svnignore and .gitignore is really ugly (your commit message was "I found convenient to have an icon in
>> Windows File explorer for my local OFBiz checkouts, must ignore it"): I didn't comment because I don't want to be too peaky but in my opinion it is
>> a symptom of a wrong concept of the repository. I have plenty of tools and scripts in my local environment that are useful to me but not a good fit
>> for the project and I don't put them in the repository just because it will be easier for me to find them there every time I do a checkout.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
Jacopo,
Thank you for mentioning the .svnignore and .gitignore commit - that
bothers me too. We should be ignoring things in the repo, not our
personal modifications.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/9/2014 7:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>
> On Sep 9, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> [...] On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are against multiplying them. [...]
>
> This is not what I wrote in my previous email; quoting here for your convenience:
>
> "The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences."
>
>> I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully you have not that much error in your instance.
>>
>> The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand then will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the repo, ready to use...
>
> Please, don't do this: let's all try to keep the public repo as clean as possible without adding stuff to facilitate our personal workflow; for example, the commit you did yesterday to .svnignore and .gitignore is really ugly (your commit message was "I found convenient to have an icon in Windows File explorer for my local OFBiz checkouts, must ignore it"): I didn't comment because I don't want to be too peaky but in my opinion it is a symptom of a wrong concept of the repository. I have plenty of tools and scripts in my local environment that are useful to me but not a good fit for the project and I don't put them in the repository just because it will be easier for me to find them there every time I do a checkout.
>
> Jacopo
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 9, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> [...] On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are against multiplying them. [...]
This is not what I wrote in my previous email; quoting here for your convenience:
"The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences."
> I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully you have not that much error in your instance.
>
> The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand then will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the repo, ready to use...
Please, don't do this: let's all try to keep the public repo as clean as possible without adding stuff to facilitate our personal workflow; for example, the commit you did yesterday to .svnignore and .gitignore is really ugly (your commit message was "I found convenient to have an icon in Windows File explorer for my local OFBiz checkouts, must ignore it"): I didn't comment because I don't want to be too peaky but in my opinion it is a symptom of a wrong concept of the repository. I have plenty of tools and scripts in my local environment that are useful to me but not a good fit for the project and I don't put them in the repository just because it will be easier for me to find them there every time I do a checkout.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Thanks Taher,
I'm aware of those and I sometimes indeed use msysgit for some exotic git commands (there are so much), though I prefer to use TortoiseGit in much cases.
Scite is also fast and includes regex of course, I can use also Eclipse for that and Putty for SSH (I even recently found Windows has an excellent VPN
client embedded)...
What I want to emphasize is no, Windows users are not idiots, and no, I don't want to learl Vim :p
Jacques
Le 09/09/2014 07:39, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> Hi Jaques,
>
> I am not sure if this is helpful for your comments below .. but i know of
> multiple software packages (git for windows which has msysgit for example)
> that provide native linux tools on windows including grep and ssh (for
> local and remote work).
>
> Furthermore you can still download powerful text editors on windows. Vim
> for example, is extremely fast with massive text files which we opened in
> the past and regex through that thing is a breeze.
>
> So I guess I'm trying to emphasize that the OS choice is not a big issue
> with proper tools.
>
> Taher Alkhateeb
> On Sep 9, 2014 8:08 AM, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Le 08/09/2014 23:31, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>
>>> On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
>>>> I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>> I spend a lot of time debugging production instances and I never use it,
>>> so I'd prefer if it wasn't there as well. Using grep to list errors is a
>>> simple alternative that doesn't require additional files. Individual
>>> errors are often worthless without the surrounding INFO and DEBUG
>>> information IMO.
>>>
>> I had also my share of reading myself blind at production logs and I must
>> admit I then rarely used the error.log, but indeed greped. Let me list the
>> cases I found error.Log useful, first I must say my platform of choice is
>> Windows.
>> When in development and test phase, using either File Explorer on Windows
>> (development) or WinSCP on servers (test). It's then the fastest way to get
>> an idea on what is going wrong. The same applies with OFBiz demos on the
>> OFBiz-VM at the ASF. Once the file (error.log) is open (I use Scite as
>> local text editor) either from File Explorer or WinSCP, it's a breeze to
>> refresh it, because normally this file is lighter than ofbiz.log (else you
>> have a big problem).
>>
>> Also we removed console.log. In some cases I found it very convenient. On
>> the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down
>> the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are against
>> multiplying them. I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding
>> error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully
>> you have not that much error in your instance.
>>
>> The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want
>> it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand then
>> will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the
>> repo, ready to use...
>>
>> What others think?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jaques,
I am not sure if this is helpful for your comments below .. but i know of
multiple software packages (git for windows which has msysgit for example)
that provide native linux tools on windows including grep and ssh (for
local and remote work).
Furthermore you can still download powerful text editors on windows. Vim
for example, is extremely fast with massive text files which we opened in
the past and regex through that thing is a breeze.
So I guess I'm trying to emphasize that the OS choice is not a big issue
with proper tools.
Taher Alkhateeb
On Sep 9, 2014 8:08 AM, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
wrote:
>
> Le 08/09/2014 23:31, Scott Gray a écrit :
>
>> On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
>>>>
>>> I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>> I spend a lot of time debugging production instances and I never use it,
>> so I'd prefer if it wasn't there as well. Using grep to list errors is a
>> simple alternative that doesn't require additional files. Individual
>> errors are often worthless without the surrounding INFO and DEBUG
>> information IMO.
>>
>
> I had also my share of reading myself blind at production logs and I must
> admit I then rarely used the error.log, but indeed greped. Let me list the
> cases I found error.Log useful, first I must say my platform of choice is
> Windows.
> When in development and test phase, using either File Explorer on Windows
> (development) or WinSCP on servers (test). It's then the fastest way to get
> an idea on what is going wrong. The same applies with OFBiz demos on the
> OFBiz-VM at the ASF. Once the file (error.log) is open (I use Scite as
> local text editor) either from File Explorer or WinSCP, it's a breeze to
> refresh it, because normally this file is lighter than ofbiz.log (else you
> have a big problem).
>
> Also we removed console.log. In some cases I found it very convenient. On
> the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down
> the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are against
> multiplying them. I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding
> error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully
> you have not that much error in your instance.
>
> The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want
> it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand then
> will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the
> repo, ready to use...
>
> What others think?
>
> Jacques
>
>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 08/09/2014 23:31, Scott Gray a écrit :
> On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
>> I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
>>
>> Jacopo
> I spend a lot of time debugging production instances and I never use it, so I'd prefer if it wasn't there as well. Using grep to list errors is a simple alternative that doesn't require additional files. Individual errors are often worthless without the surrounding INFO and DEBUG information IMO.
I had also my share of reading myself blind at production logs and I must admit I then rarely used the error.log, but indeed greped. Let me list the
cases I found error.Log useful, first I must say my platform of choice is Windows.
When in development and test phase, using either File Explorer on Windows (development) or WinSCP on servers (test). It's then the fastest way to get
an idea on what is going wrong. The same applies with OFBiz demos on the OFBiz-VM at the ASF. Once the file (error.log) is open (I use Scite as local
text editor) either from File Explorer or WinSCP, it's a breeze to refresh it, because normally this file is lighter than ofbiz.log (else you have a
big problem).
Also we removed console.log. In some cases I found it very convenient. On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down
the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are against multiplying them. I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding error
should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully you have not that much error in your instance.
The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand then
will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the repo, ready to use...
What others think?
Jacques
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
>
> I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
>
> Jacopo
I spend a lot of time debugging production instances and I never use it, so I'd prefer if it wasn't there as well. Using grep to list errors is a simple alternative that doesn't require additional files. Individual errors are often worthless without the surrounding INFO and DEBUG information IMO.
Regards
Scott
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
Jacopo
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 08/09/2014 14:20, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Sep 8, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
>>
>> It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it has been removed OOTB?
> The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences.
Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
Jacques
>
> Jacopo
>
>> Jacques
>
>
Re: Where is the error.log gone?
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 8, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
>
> It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it has been removed OOTB?
The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences.
Jacopo
>
> Jacques