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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> on 2005/11/26 04:33:38 UTC
Tapestry lists alive?
Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9 hours...
Geoff
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Javier Molina <nu...@myrealbox.com>.
There might still be a problem somewhere, I got something like this in
reply to two of my messages a few days ago:
----
MDaemon has identified your message as spam. It will not be delivered.
From : tapestry-user-return-29038-gs=smm.de@jakarta.apache.org
To : gs@smm.de
Subject : [***SPAM***][Score/Req.: 07.3/5.0] Re: Upload progress bar?
Message-ID: <dm...@sea.gmane.org>
Yes, score=7.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_80,RCVD_BY_IP, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO
autolearn=no version=3.0.2
*******
* 0.1 RCVD_BY_IP Received by mail server with no name * 1.2
RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO * 6.0
BAYES_80 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 80 to 95% * [score: 0.9369]
: Message contains [1] file attachments
----
The attachment it mentions comes with this notification, my original
message had no attachments.
I'm posting through gmane.
Geoff Longman escribió:
> Cool. Thought I was losing it there.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 11/25/05, Cliff Zhao <zh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Me too.
>>But got yours.
>>
>>
>>On 11/25/05, Geoff Longman <glongman@gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>>>Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
>>>hours...
>>>
>>>Geoff
>>>--
>>>The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
>>>Get help with Spindle:
>>>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
>>>Announcement Feed:
>>>http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
>>>Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
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Spindle
Posted by Tony Herstell <to...@cambridgesoftware.co.nz>.
Is the Spindle going to be coming out for Tap 4.x?
I use MyEclipse and go with what they supply, and found Spindle useful.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 24/11/2005
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Cool. Thought I was losing it there.
Geoff
On 11/25/05, Cliff Zhao <zh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Me too.
> But got yours.
>
>
> On 11/25/05, Geoff Longman <glongman@gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
> > hours...
> >
> > Geoff
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Get help with Spindle:
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> > Announcement Feed:
> > http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> > Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Get help with Spindle:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
Announcement Feed:
http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Cliff Zhao <zh...@gmail.com>.
Me too.
But got yours.
On 11/25/05, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
> hours...
>
> Geoff
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Ron Piterman <rp...@gmx.net>.
Gareth wrote:
> Ah,
>
> I'm pleased to see that there are people using this mailing list - LoL
>
> I'm trying to get started with Tapestry, and have so far written everything by
> hand, have completed the example / tutorial on the tapestry webpage, and have
> attempted building a few pages of my own, but I have realised when looking at
> the library example, that the login deals with the visit object etc about which
> I had not looked (because it wasnt in the tutorial). I was just about set to
> build a little example that logged someone in (checking against a dbase using
> hibernate + Spring), when I came across a post comparing Tapestry VS. JSF on
> the Serverside webpage. This indicated that the visit object and global (think
> that was the one) were on the cards for being deprecated in favour of something
> else.
>
> Could someone please comment of the deprecation issue, thanks.
in tapestry 4 they both still exist, there is however another
application state objects "repository" using (like everything in T4)
hivemind. read about server state in the user guide.
>
> Also, I have come across spindle, a plugin for eclipse (my fav. editor), and I
> noticed it will work with eclipse 3.1, but only supports tapestry 3... because
> of the major changes (I read) between 3 and 4, and my unwillingness to learn
> and write something only to have to change it, I am using tapestry 4, so my
> question is, will spindle be updated to support tapestry 4, and if so when.
>
ask Geoff. Currently there is spindle for 3.0 only.
> I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article that
> essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted on a large
> scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to it, I
> can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical, but is
> this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would help
> 1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form submission and
> logging in for instance.
There are exelent books around which explain everything in great detail.
(wiki->t4->howtos)
Also there are some excelent tutorials - look in the wiki, there are
some links there.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gareth Deli
> g01z@yahoo.co.uk
>
> --- Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
>>hours...
>>
>>Geoff
>>--
>>The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
>>Get help with Spindle:
>>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
>>Announcement Feed:
>>http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
>>Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
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>
>
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Thomas Christensen <tc...@nordija.com>.
Hi Gareth
On 26/11/2005, at 14.37, Gareth wrote:
> I was just about set to
> build a little example that logged someone in (checking against a
> dbase using
> hibernate + Spring), when I came across a post comparing Tapestry
> VS. JSF on
> the Serverside webpage. This indicated that the visit object and
> global (think
> that was the one) were on the cards for being deprecated in favour
> of something
> else.
>
> Could someone please comment of the deprecation issue, thanks.
In version Tapestry version 4, the visit and global objects can be
injected into your page class so instead of accessing visit using
getVisit() you will access it through you own defined method. Global
accessible objects should be injected as well, such as spring
services etc.
Furthermore, you can define as many "visit/global" types of objects
you want using hivemind and apparently extend the scope to be other
than "session" (don't know how exactly).
Cheers
Thomas
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gareth Deli
> g01z@yahoo.co.uk
>
> --- Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
>> hours...
>>
>> Geoff
>> --
>> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
>> Get help with Spindle:
>> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
>> Announcement Feed:
>> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
>> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-
>> help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
> new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
Yes, there is quite a bit of ajax support for tapestry at
http://tacos.sourceforge.net.
What you are asking for, specificially with event listeners on select/etc/
fields isn't in the currently available release, but if you checkout the
project from cvs and use "AjaxFieldObserver" you can get what you want. (As
long as what you want coincides with what the component can do ;) )
You may have to spend some time with the demo to become familiar with it, as
the website documentation doesn't reflect what is currently in cvs...We plan
on releasing in the next few days, as soon as we're done ironing out a few
last things...
jesse
On 11/26/05, Gareth <g0...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if it is possible to integrate AJAX techniques
> with the tapestry approach? This is something which we have used
> to great effect where I currently work where for instance we have a
> multitude
> of linked dropdowns where the choices of 1 affects another and so on, and,
> with
> lots of items on the page, it is clearly more efficient to just reload the
> list
> from the server using a combination of AJAX and Javascript.
>
> For this scenario, I am concerned that if this solution were not
> available, the
> performance would be significantly affected.
>
> Is there an alternative solution which would work with tapestry if AJAX is
> not
> compatible?
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts they would be prepared to share?
>
> Thanks :-)
>
> Gareth Deli.
> g01z@yahoo.co.uk
>
>
>
> --- John Coleman <jo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article
> that
> > > essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted
> on a
> > large
> > > scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to
> it,
> > I
> > > can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical,
> but
> > is
> > > this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would
> help
> > > 1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form
> submission
> > and
> > > logging in for instance.
> >
> > I think Tapestry is unlikely to be adopted large scale simply because it
> is
> > not a Sun standard and isn't a natural progression from the existing
> > JSP/Struts domination. But look at the popularity of Struts, it's not
> Sun
> > and also takes a while to master. And I'd like to know what practical
> > expereince these Tapestry critics have - IMHO don't bash it until you've
> had
> > a good go at it and compared it to more conventional means of
> production. It
> > took our developers a few weeks to get up to speed with Tapestry, it is
> > harder, but they really like it, and going back to Struts and JSPs now
> can't
> > be taken so seriously. Furthermore the code they produce is of much
> higher
> > quality than when you work so close to the servlet. With Tapestry we
> find
> > module tested code can be released to the client for a play with little
> more
> > than a look over. With prior projects on JSPs/Struts we need a system
> tester
> > to really bash the app hard for a long time to get out all the bugs, of
> > which there would always be plenty. We are seeing shorter times from
> > conception to result, and less cycles of test and fix.
> >
> > What would help Tapestry is for tools like Spindle and Palette to get up
> > with version 4, as v4 contains many radical improvements, it's easier to
> > use. We need more RAD tools, and I'd like to see some kind of component
> > generator for hooking up to ORMs easily, maybe a form designer. I
> remember
> > how easy it was to write neat, but feature rich GUIs using MS Access.
> With a
> > COM like Tapestry, this should be a realistic possibility.
> >
> > Sun have already adopted ideas out of Hibernate for EJB3, and facelets
> is
> > similar to Tapestry. But how long does it take to learn JSF and facelets
> > anyway? And at the moment Tapestry seems to be more established than
> JSF.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
> Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Gareth <g0...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Does anyone know if it is possible to integrate AJAX techniques
with the tapestry approach? This is something which we have used
to great effect where I currently work where for instance we have a multitude
of linked dropdowns where the choices of 1 affects another and so on, and, with
lots of items on the page, it is clearly more efficient to just reload the list
from the server using a combination of AJAX and Javascript.
For this scenario, I am concerned that if this solution were not available, the
performance would be significantly affected.
Is there an alternative solution which would work with tapestry if AJAX is not
compatible?
Does anyone have any thoughts they would be prepared to share?
Thanks :-)
Gareth Deli.
g01z@yahoo.co.uk
--- John Coleman <jo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article that
> > essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted on a
> large
> > scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to it,
> I
> > can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical, but
> is
> > this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would help
> > 1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form submission
> and
> > logging in for instance.
>
> I think Tapestry is unlikely to be adopted large scale simply because it is
> not a Sun standard and isn't a natural progression from the existing
> JSP/Struts domination. But look at the popularity of Struts, it's not Sun
> and also takes a while to master. And I'd like to know what practical
> expereince these Tapestry critics have - IMHO don't bash it until you've had
> a good go at it and compared it to more conventional means of production. It
> took our developers a few weeks to get up to speed with Tapestry, it is
> harder, but they really like it, and going back to Struts and JSPs now can't
> be taken so seriously. Furthermore the code they produce is of much higher
> quality than when you work so close to the servlet. With Tapestry we find
> module tested code can be released to the client for a play with little more
> than a look over. With prior projects on JSPs/Struts we need a system tester
> to really bash the app hard for a long time to get out all the bugs, of
> which there would always be plenty. We are seeing shorter times from
> conception to result, and less cycles of test and fix.
>
> What would help Tapestry is for tools like Spindle and Palette to get up
> with version 4, as v4 contains many radical improvements, it's easier to
> use. We need more RAD tools, and I'd like to see some kind of component
> generator for hooking up to ORMs easily, maybe a form designer. I remember
> how easy it was to write neat, but feature rich GUIs using MS Access. With a
> COM like Tapestry, this should be a realistic possibility.
>
> Sun have already adopted ideas out of Hibernate for EJB3, and facelets is
> similar to Tapestry. But how long does it take to learn JSF and facelets
> anyway? And at the moment Tapestry seems to be more established than JSF.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
___________________________________________________________
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by John Coleman <jo...@ntlworld.com>.
Hi,
> I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article that
> essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted on a
large
> scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to it,
I
> can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical, but
is
> this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would help
> 1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form submission
and
> logging in for instance.
I think Tapestry is unlikely to be adopted large scale simply because it is
not a Sun standard and isn't a natural progression from the existing
JSP/Struts domination. But look at the popularity of Struts, it's not Sun
and also takes a while to master. And I'd like to know what practical
expereince these Tapestry critics have - IMHO don't bash it until you've had
a good go at it and compared it to more conventional means of production. It
took our developers a few weeks to get up to speed with Tapestry, it is
harder, but they really like it, and going back to Struts and JSPs now can't
be taken so seriously. Furthermore the code they produce is of much higher
quality than when you work so close to the servlet. With Tapestry we find
module tested code can be released to the client for a play with little more
than a look over. With prior projects on JSPs/Struts we need a system tester
to really bash the app hard for a long time to get out all the bugs, of
which there would always be plenty. We are seeing shorter times from
conception to result, and less cycles of test and fix.
What would help Tapestry is for tools like Spindle and Palette to get up
with version 4, as v4 contains many radical improvements, it's easier to
use. We need more RAD tools, and I'd like to see some kind of component
generator for hooking up to ORMs easily, maybe a form designer. I remember
how easy it was to write neat, but feature rich GUIs using MS Access. With a
COM like Tapestry, this should be a realistic possibility.
Sun have already adopted ideas out of Hibernate for EJB3, and facelets is
similar to Tapestry. But how long does it take to learn JSF and facelets
anyway? And at the moment Tapestry seems to be more established than JSF.
John
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Thomas Christensen <tc...@nordija.com>.
Hi Gareth
On 26/11/2005, at 14.37, Gareth wrote:
> I was just about set to
> build a little example that logged someone in (checking against a
> dbase using
> hibernate + Spring), when I came across a post comparing Tapestry
> VS. JSF on
> the Serverside webpage. This indicated that the visit object and
> global (think
> that was the one) were on the cards for being deprecated in favour
> of something
> else.
>
> Could someone please comment of the deprecation issue, thanks.
In version Tapestry version 4, the visit and global objects can be
injected into your page class so instead of accessing visit using
getVisit() you will access it through you own defined method. Global
accessible objects should be injected as well, such as spring
services etc.
Furthermore, you can define as many "visit/global" types of objects
you want using hivemind and apparently extend the scope to be other
than "session" (don't know how exactly).
Cheers
Thomas
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gareth Deli
> g01z@yahoo.co.uk
>
> --- Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
>> hours...
>>
>> Geoff
>> --
>> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
>> Get help with Spindle:
>> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
>> Announcement Feed:
>> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
>> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-
>> help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
> new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Gareth <g0...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Ah,
I'm pleased to see that there are people using this mailing list - LoL
I'm trying to get started with Tapestry, and have so far written everything by
hand, have completed the example / tutorial on the tapestry webpage, and have
attempted building a few pages of my own, but I have realised when looking at
the library example, that the login deals with the visit object etc about which
I had not looked (because it wasnt in the tutorial). I was just about set to
build a little example that logged someone in (checking against a dbase using
hibernate + Spring), when I came across a post comparing Tapestry VS. JSF on
the Serverside webpage. This indicated that the visit object and global (think
that was the one) were on the cards for being deprecated in favour of something
else.
Could someone please comment of the deprecation issue, thanks.
Also, I have come across spindle, a plugin for eclipse (my fav. editor), and I
noticed it will work with eclipse 3.1, but only supports tapestry 3... because
of the major changes (I read) between 3 and 4, and my unwillingness to learn
and write something only to have to change it, I am using tapestry 4, so my
question is, will spindle be updated to support tapestry 4, and if so when.
I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article that
essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted on a large
scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to it, I
can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical, but is
this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would help
1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form submission and
logging in for instance.
Thanks
Gareth Deli
g01z@yahoo.co.uk
--- Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
> hours...
>
> Geoff
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
___________________________________________________________
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Re: Tapestry lists alive?
Posted by Gareth <g0...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Ah,
I'm pleased to see that there are people using this mailing list - LoL
I'm trying to get started with Tapestry, and have so far written everything by
hand, have completed the example / tutorial on the tapestry webpage, and have
attempted building a few pages of my own, but I have realised when looking at
the library example, that the login deals with the visit object etc about which
I had not looked (because it wasnt in the tutorial). I was just about set to
build a little example that logged someone in (checking against a dbase using
hibernate + Spring), when I came across a post comparing Tapestry VS. JSF on
the Serverside webpage. This indicated that the visit object and global (think
that was the one) were on the cards for being deprecated in favour of something
else.
Could someone please comment of the deprecation issue, thanks.
Also, I have come across spindle, a plugin for eclipse (my fav. editor), and I
noticed it will work with eclipse 3.1, but only supports tapestry 3... because
of the major changes (I read) between 3 and 4, and my unwillingness to learn
and write something only to have to change it, I am using tapestry 4, so my
question is, will spindle be updated to support tapestry 4, and if so when.
I was a little concerned about the comment in the serverside article that
essentially said that tapestry does not look like it will be adopted on a large
scale, simply because of the steep learning curve... as someone new to it, I
can certainly agree that the learning curve is pretty much vertical, but is
this something that is on the cards to change? One thing that would help
1000000% is to have more tutorials, taking people through form submission and
logging in for instance.
Thanks
Gareth Deli
g01z@yahoo.co.uk
--- Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haven't seen any mail from the user or developer lists in at least 9
> hours...
>
> Geoff
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
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