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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> on 2012/07/19 16:43:16 UTC
[UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Hi there,
entering a color in the new color, with its hex code, has a rather
strange result. Try
- menu "Tools" -"Options..."
- on the "Options" dialog, select the on the tree "OpenOffice.org"
- "Colors"
- select a color and press the "Edit..." button (side comment: the color
picker should be available from the floating window that opens from
the toolbar!)
- enter some color in the "Hex #" edit field, for example AA
If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
the left.
AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170
Enter only A
A -> 00000A -> RGB 0,0,10
but the color picker shows RGB 160,160,160
Enter ABC
ABC -> 000ABC -> RGB o,10,188
the color picker shows 171,171,171
Which should be the expected behaviour?
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Andre, *
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 05:33:35PM +0200, Andre Fischer wrote:
> On 19.07.2012 16:43, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> >Hi there,
> >
> >entering a color in the new color, with its hex code, has a rather
> >strange result. Try
> >
> >- menu "Tools" -"Options..."
> >- on the "Options" dialog, select the on the tree "OpenOffice.org"
> > - "Colors"
> >- select a color and press the "Edit..." button (side comment: the color
> > picker should be available from the floating window that opens from
> > the toolbar!)
> >- enter some color in the "Hex #" edit field, for example AA
> >
> >If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
> >the left.
> >
> >AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
> >
> >but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170
>
> AA -> AAAAAA
>
> seems to me more natural then than AA -> 0000AA or AA -> AA0000 (or
> AA -> 00AA00)
>
> >
> >Enter only A
> >
> >A -> 00000A -> RGB 0,0,10
> >
> >but the color picker shows RGB 160,160,160
>
> this is unexpected. Following the previous case I would have expected
> A -> 0A0A0A
>
> >
> >Enter ABC
> >
> >ABC -> 000ABC -> RGB o,10,188
> >
> >the color picker shows 171,171,171
>
> urgh, I would expect an error message here
looking at other applications I have at hand:
- KDE color picker: only accepts 3 and 6 hex digits as valid, other
values are ignored (no warning/error box).
* AA -> not accepted, no error/warning
* aaa -> RGB 170, 170, 170
It means aaa -> AAAAAA
* abc -> RGB 170, 187, 204
It means abc -> AABBCC
* 123 -> 112233
* 1234 -> ignored
* yjr -> no error nor warning
- Gnome2 color picker: only accepts 3 and 6 hex digits as valid, other
values are ignored (no warning/error box)
* AA -> ignored
* aaa -> AAAAAA
* abc -> AABBCC
* 123 -> 112233
* 012 -> 001122
* 1234 -> ignored
* yjr -> ignored
* 1234567 -> ignored
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.
Hi Kevin,
Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> KG01 - See comments inline
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com> wrote:
>
>> [..]
>>> It depends on what we mean by "expected". I suspect the typical user
>>> does not touch hexadecimal. Programmers who are not web developers
>>> probably expect this to be treated like a number, i.e., they are
>>> entering the three least significant digits and it will be padded with
>>> zeros to the left. Some users, those who are web developers, might
>>> know (but it is not guaranteed) that CSS3 defines what this means:
>>>
>>> "The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a #
>>> immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters.
>>> The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form
>>> (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example,
>>> #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This ensures that white (#ffffff) can be
>>> specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies
>>> on the color depth of the display."
>>>
>>> See: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#rgb-color
>>
>> Thanks. I think we should stick to that definition.
>
> KG01 - Agreed. The W3 definition and rules should be supported. Perhaps
> our popup help and documentation should include a reference to the W3 material.
+1
>
>> Thus I suggest:
>> - Allow Field as Input (see comments from Regina)
>> - Ignore when not three or six valid hexadecimal signs
>
> KG01 - From a UX perspective, let's focus on error prevention vs error recovery.
Always good to do so.
>
>> - Apply HelpID
>> - Adapt Help entries
>>
>> I will write a task for it when discussion led to a consensus.
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> --
>>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>>> La Plata, Argentina
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Armin
>> --
>> ALG
>>
--
ALG
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG01 - See comments inline
On Jul 20, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com> wrote:
> [..]
>> It depends on what we mean by "expected". I suspect the typical user
>> does not touch hexadecimal. Programmers who are not web developers
>> probably expect this to be treated like a number, i.e., they are
>> entering the three least significant digits and it will be padded with
>> zeros to the left. Some users, those who are web developers, might
>> know (but it is not guaranteed) that CSS3 defines what this means:
>>
>> "The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a #
>> immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters.
>> The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form
>> (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example,
>> #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This ensures that white (#ffffff) can be
>> specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies
>> on the color depth of the display."
>>
>> See: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#rgb-color
>
> Thanks. I think we should stick to that definition.
KG01 - Agreed. The W3 definition and rules should be supported. Perhaps our popup help and documentation should include a reference to the W3 material.
> Thus I suggest:
> - Allow Field as Input (see comments from Regina)
> - Ignore when not three or six valid hexadecimal signs
KG01 - From a UX perspective, let's focus on error prevention vs error recovery.
> - Apply HelpID
> - Adapt Help entries
>
> I will write a task for it when discussion led to a consensus.
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> --
>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>> La Plata, Argentina
>
> Sincerely,
> Armin
> --
> ALG
>
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Armin Le Grand <Ar...@me.com>.
[..]
> It depends on what we mean by "expected". I suspect the typical user
> does not touch hexadecimal. Programmers who are not web developers
> probably expect this to be treated like a number, i.e., they are
> entering the three least significant digits and it will be padded with
> zeros to the left. Some users, those who are web developers, might
> know (but it is not guaranteed) that CSS3 defines what this means:
>
> "The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a #
> immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters.
> The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form
> (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example,
> #fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This ensures that white (#ffffff) can be
> specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies
> on the color depth of the display."
>
> See: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#rgb-color
Thanks. I think we should stick to that definition. Thus I suggest:
- Allow Field as Input (see comments from Regina)
- Ignore when not three or six valid hexadecimal signs
- Apply HelpID
- Adapt Help entries
I will write a task for it when discussion led to a consensus.
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> La Plata, Argentina
Sincerely,
Armin
--
ALG
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
<ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:17:37AM +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> KG01 - These examples, along with the behavior expectations may make
>> sense to a developer, however in 15 yrs of digital design, I've never
>> assumed a tool would resolve my hex input.
>>
>> I suspect we all agree that the colour picker UX needs work, I'm not
>> sure this fix would address the core issues.
>>
>> Regardless, from a UX perspective, the tool should prevent users from
>> having to refine or correct autocomplete. Furthermore, if a specific
>> syntax is required, then the input field and supporting instructional
>> text and examples should make the expected syntax obvious.
>
> The problem is: what is the expected behaviour? I didn't get an idea
> from the hex numbers I tried, and the documentation is missing/broken
> (another issue: F1 doesn't display the respective help page, and AFAIK
> the help wasn't updated).
>
It depends on what we mean by "expected". I suspect the typical user
does not touch hexadecimal. Programmers who are not web developers
probably expect this to be treated like a number, i.e., they are
entering the three least significant digits and it will be padded with
zeros to the left. Some users, those who are web developers, might
know (but it is not guaranteed) that CSS3 defines what this means:
"The format of an RGB value in hexadecimal notation is a ‘#’
immediately followed by either three or six hexadecimal characters.
The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is converted into six-digit form
(#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by adding zeros. For example,
#fb0 expands to #ffbb00. This ensures that white (#ffffff) can be
specified with the short notation (#fff) and removes any dependencies
on the color depth of the display."
See: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#rgb-color
Regards,
-Rob
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:17:37AM +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> KG01 - These examples, along with the behavior expectations may make
> sense to a developer, however in 15 yrs of digital design, I've never
> assumed a tool would resolve my hex input.
>
> I suspect we all agree that the colour picker UX needs work, I'm not
> sure this fix would address the core issues.
>
> Regardless, from a UX perspective, the tool should prevent users from
> having to refine or correct autocomplete. Furthermore, if a specific
> syntax is required, then the input field and supporting instructional
> text and examples should make the expected syntax obvious.
The problem is: what is the expected behaviour? I didn't get an idea
from the hex numbers I tried, and the documentation is missing/broken
(another issue: F1 doesn't display the respective help page, and AFAIK
the help wasn't updated).
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG01 - See comments inline.
On Jul 19, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Andre Fischer <af...@a-w-f.de> wrote:
> On 19.07.2012 16:43, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> entering a color in the new color, with its hex code, has a rather
>> strange result. Try
>>
>> - menu "Tools" -"Options..."
>> - on the "Options" dialog, select the on the tree "OpenOffice.org"
>> - "Colors"
>> - select a color and press the "Edit..." button (side comment: the color
>> picker should be available from the floating window that opens from
>> the toolbar!)
>> - enter some color in the "Hex #" edit field, for example AA
>>
>> If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
>> the left.
>>
>> AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
>>
>> but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170
>
> AA -> AAAAAA
>
> seems to me more natural then than AA -> 0000AA or AA -> AA0000 (or AA -> 00AA00)
>
KG01 - These examples, along with the behavior expectations may make sense to a developer, however in 15 yrs of digital design, I've never assumed a tool would resolve my hex input.
I suspect we all agree that the colour picker UX needs work, I'm not sure this fix would address the core issues.
Regardless, from a UX perspective, the tool should prevent users from having to refine or correct autocomplete. Furthermore, if a specific syntax is required, then the input field and supporting instructional text and examples should make the expected syntax obvious.
>>
>> Enter only A
>>
>> A -> 00000A -> RGB 0,0,10
>>
>> but the color picker shows RGB 160,160,160
>
> this is unexpected. Following the previous case I would have expected
> A -> 0A0A0A
>
>>
>> Enter ABC
>>
>> ABC -> 000ABC -> RGB o,10,188
>>
>> the color picker shows 171,171,171
>
> urgh, I would expect an error message here
>
KG01 - error prevention is better than error recovery
> -Andre
>
>>
>> Which should be the expected behaviour?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Andre Fischer <af...@a-w-f.de>.
On 19.07.2012 16:43, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> entering a color in the new color, with its hex code, has a rather
> strange result. Try
>
> - menu "Tools" -"Options..."
> - on the "Options" dialog, select the on the tree "OpenOffice.org"
> - "Colors"
> - select a color and press the "Edit..." button (side comment: the color
> picker should be available from the floating window that opens from
> the toolbar!)
> - enter some color in the "Hex #" edit field, for example AA
>
> If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
> the left.
>
> AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
>
> but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170
AA -> AAAAAA
seems to me more natural then than AA -> 0000AA or AA -> AA0000 (or AA
-> 00AA00)
>
> Enter only A
>
> A -> 00000A -> RGB 0,0,10
>
> but the color picker shows RGB 160,160,160
this is unexpected. Following the previous case I would have expected
A -> 0A0A0A
>
> Enter ABC
>
> ABC -> 000ABC -> RGB o,10,188
>
> the color picker shows 171,171,171
urgh, I would expect an error message here
-Andre
>
> Which should be the expected behaviour?
>
>
> Regards
>
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.
Hi Ariel,
Ariel Constenla-Haile schrieb:
> Hi there,
>
> entering a color in the new color, with its hex code, has a rather
> strange result. Try
>
> - menu "Tools" -"Options..."
> - on the "Options" dialog, select the on the tree "OpenOffice.org"
> - "Colors"
> - select a color and press the "Edit..." button (side comment: the color
> picker should be available from the floating window that opens from
> the toolbar!)
> - enter some color in the "Hex #" edit field, for example AA
>
> If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
> the left.
>
> AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
>
> but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170
>
> Enter only A
>
> A -> 00000A -> RGB 0,0,10
>
> but the color picker shows RGB 160,160,160
>
> Enter ABC
>
> ABC -> 000ABC -> RGB o,10,188
>
> the color picker shows 171,171,171
>
> Which should be the expected behaviour?
That part of the dialog is broken. Even if you enter a 6 digit value,
you do not get that color.
I expect, that if you enter a value, which would be valid in "three
digit hex" or in "six digit hex" syntax
[http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGColor12/], then this color is set. Non valid
entries should be indicated in the appearance of the field.
But I'm not sure, whether this field is intended to be an input field.
It might be, that only viewing the actual hex values was intended. The
old dialog, has no such field.
Kind regards
Regina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Andrea,
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 06:36:14PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> What I would expect is:
>
> ABC -> AABBCC
>
> This is the (unnatural for programmers, but popular) CSS shorthand
> hexadecimal notation used in web pages.
>
> And with fewer than three digits, convert to grayscale:
>
> AB -> ABABAB
>
> A -> 0A -> 0A0A0A
>
> With 4-5 digits, return an error.
>
> But like your following examples show, this is highly subjective
> (even though the three-digit pattern seems rather consistent).
>
> I think the proposal above makes sense because people used to handle
> hexadecimal color values are likely to use one hex value to mean a
> shade of grey or three hex digits for the shorthand hex notation.
After trying Gimp, KColorChooser and GColor2, the common behaviour is:
- only accept 3 and 6 hex digits
- 3 digits are interpreted as you propose:
012 -> 001122
123 -> 112233
- other number of digits (or invalid input, like yrj) is ignored, being
Gimp the only one that resets the field to the previous valid value.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [UI] ColorPicker - entering hex color code
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> If I enter AA, I would expect it to be #0000AA, that is, zeros added at
> the left.
> AA -> 0000AA -> RBG 0,0,170
> but the color picker shows RGB 170,170,170 ...
> Which should be the expected behaviour?
What I would expect is:
ABC -> AABBCC
This is the (unnatural for programmers, but popular) CSS shorthand
hexadecimal notation used in web pages.
And with fewer than three digits, convert to grayscale:
AB -> ABABAB
A -> 0A -> 0A0A0A
With 4-5 digits, return an error.
But like your following examples show, this is highly subjective (even
though the three-digit pattern seems rather consistent).
I think the proposal above makes sense because people used to handle
hexadecimal color values are likely to use one hex value to mean a shade
of grey or three hex digits for the shorthand hex notation.
Regards,
Andrea.