You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@lucene.apache.org by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> on 2006/11/06 15:24:27 UTC
Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Hi guys,
I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration module.
The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use Lucene ;-)
http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might infringe
the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
this subject).
Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
Emmanuel
PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is not
the case already (PMC or whatever)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
Thanks Doug,
I've decided to renamed the project. As the French people said when a
king use to die: Hibernate Lucene is dead, Long life to Hibernate Search :-)
Keep up the good work guys.
Emmanuel
Doug Cutting wrote:
> Here's my understanding. Lucene is a trademark of Apache. In the
> context of search technology, Lucene should only be used to refer to
> Apache Lucene, and that must be unambiguous. Thus if there's a chance
> that someone might think you're talking about "JBoss Lucene" then you
> must make it clear that you're really referring to Apache's Lucene.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#Marks
>
> Apache's Trademark policy isn't totally spelled out, but there's been
> a proposal to follow Eclipse's guidelines:
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/legal/logo_guidelines.php
>
> Under these guidelines, a product named "Hibernate Lucene" would not
> be permitted, but "Hibernate for Lucene" would.
>
> Doug
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
>> I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
>> module.
>> The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
>> capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
>> Lucene ;-)
>> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
>>
>>
>> I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
>> infringe the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
>> http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
>> trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
>> But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
>> Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
>> this subject).
>>
>> Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
>> your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
>> choice was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>
>> PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is
>> not the case already (PMC or whatever)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Here's my understanding. Lucene is a trademark of Apache. In the
context of search technology, Lucene should only be used to refer to
Apache Lucene, and that must be unambiguous. Thus if there's a chance
that someone might think you're talking about "JBoss Lucene" then you
must make it clear that you're really referring to Apache's Lucene.
http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#Marks
Apache's Trademark policy isn't totally spelled out, but there's been a
proposal to follow Eclipse's guidelines:
http://www.eclipse.org/legal/logo_guidelines.php
Under these guidelines, a product named "Hibernate Lucene" would not be
permitted, but "Hibernate for Lucene" would.
Doug
Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration module.
> The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
> capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use Lucene
> ;-)
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
>
> I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might infringe
> the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
> Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> this subject).
>
> Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
> your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
> was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
>
> Emmanuel
>
> PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is not
> the case already (PMC or whatever)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
Cool thanks.
Shay Banon wrote:
>
> Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion
> about
> Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something that
> needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
> http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
>
> Cheers,
> Shay
>
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >
> > I forgot a couple of things.
> > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> >
> > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> >> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> >> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> >> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> >> its design.
> >>
> >> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> >> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> >> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> >> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> >> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> >> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> >> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> Hibernate
> >> CUD operations.
> >>
> >> 2. Metadata
> >> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> >> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
> >> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> >>
> >> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> >> EntityManager)
> >> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> >> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> database,
> >> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> >> Compass search.
> >> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> >> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> >>
> >> 4. Not too much abstraction
> >> From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> >> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> >> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> >> infrastructure.
> >> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the
> abstraction as
> >> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> >> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> >>
> >>
> >> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> and for the future (but flexible)
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> Emmanuel
> >>
> >> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Emanuael,
> >> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Lukas
> >> >
> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> >> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> >> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > Hi Lukas,
> >> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> >> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> >> > let's move this discussion here
> >> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> >> list
> >> > if you want to).
> >> >
> >> > Emmanuel
> >> >
> >> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> >> > >
> >> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> >> > hibernate
> >> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> >> > > (*stake-holder*
> >> > > functionality). I have heard of
> >> > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> introduces
> >> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> >> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> >> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> code,
> >> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> >> > difference
> >> > > between your approach and comapss?
> >> > >
> >> > > Many thanks,
> >> > > Lukas
> >> > >
> >> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi guys,
> >> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> >> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> integration
> >> > > module.
> >> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> >> search
> >> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
> >> > Lucene
> >> > > > ;-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> >> > infringe
> >> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> >> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> >> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> >> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> >> of the
> >> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent
> >> on
> >> > > > this subject).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> >> use of
> >> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> >> choice
> >> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Emmanuel
> >> > > >
> >> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> >> > is not
> >> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
> Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Lukas Vlcek <lu...@gmail.com>.
Thank you all for your time and writing!
This will really help me.
Lukas
On 11/21/06, adasal <ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for link and your write up.
>
> On 19/11/06, Shay Banon <ki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion
> > about
> > Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something
> that
> > needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
> > http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Shay
> >
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > >
> > > I forgot a couple of things.
> > > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index,
> and
> > > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe
> there
> > > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your
> index
> > > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database
> backed
> > > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> > >
> > > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> > >
> > > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> > >> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> > >> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> > >> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> > >> its design.
> > >>
> > >> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> > >> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> > >> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> > >> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different
> set
> > >> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> > >> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Queryinterface,
> > >> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> > Hibernate
> > >> CUD operations.
> > >>
> > >> 2. Metadata
> > >> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations,
> so
> > >> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain
> model
> >
> > >> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> > >>
> > >> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> > >> EntityManager)
> > >> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so
> any
> > >> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> > database,
> > >> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from
> a
> > >> Compass search.
> > >> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all
> the
> > >> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> > >>
> > >> 4. Not too much abstraction
> > >> From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design /
> classnames
> > >> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> > >> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> > >> infrastructure.
> > >> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction
> > as
> > >> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> > >> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> > >>
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > >> and for the future (but flexible)
> > >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> >
> > >>
> > >> HTH
> > >>
> > >> Emmanuel
> > >>
> > >> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Emanuael,
> > >> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > Lukas
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel@hibernate.org >
> > >> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > >> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi Lukas,
> > >> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev
> is
> > >> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > >> > let's move this discussion here
> > >> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> > >> list
> > >> > if you want to).
> > >> >
> > >> > Emmanuel
> > >> >
> > >> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> > >> > hibernate
> > >> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > >> > > (*stake-holder*
> > >> > > functionality). I have heard of
> > >> > > comapss< http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> > introduces
> > >> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > >> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about
> your
> > >> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> > code,
> > >> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > >> > difference
> > >> > > between your approach and comapss?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Many thanks,
> > >> > > Lukas
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard < emmanuel@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Hi guys,
> > >> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > >> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> > integration
> > >> > > module.
> > >> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> > >> search
> > >> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I
> use
> >
> > >> > Lucene
> > >> > > > ;-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> > >> > infringe
> > >> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > >> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is
> a
> > >> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt
> BTW)
> >
> > >> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> > >> of the
> > >> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be
> silent
> > >> on
> > >> > > > this subject).
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> > >> use of
> > >> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> > >> choice
> > >> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Emmanuel
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if
> this
> > >> > is not
> > >> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
> > Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by adasal <ad...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for link and your write up.
On 19/11/06, Shay Banon <ki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion
> about
> Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something that
> needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
> http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
>
> Cheers,
> Shay
>
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >
> > I forgot a couple of things.
> > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> >
> > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> >> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> >> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> >> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> >> its design.
> >>
> >> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> >> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> >> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> >> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> >> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> >> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> >> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> Hibernate
> >> CUD operations.
> >>
> >> 2. Metadata
> >> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> >> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
>
> >> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> >>
> >> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> >> EntityManager)
> >> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> >> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> database,
> >> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> >> Compass search.
> >> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> >> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> >>
> >> 4. Not too much abstraction
> >> From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> >> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> >> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> >> infrastructure.
> >> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction
> as
> >> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> >> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> >>
> >>
> >> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> and for the future (but flexible)
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
>
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> Emmanuel
> >>
> >> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Emanuael,
> >> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Lukas
> >> >
> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel@hibernate.org >
> >> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> >> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > Hi Lukas,
> >> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> >> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> >> > let's move this discussion here
> >> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> >> list
> >> > if you want to).
> >> >
> >> > Emmanuel
> >> >
> >> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> >> > >
> >> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> >> > hibernate
> >> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> >> > > (*stake-holder*
> >> > > functionality). I have heard of
> >> > > comapss< http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> introduces
> >> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> >> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> >> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> code,
> >> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> >> > difference
> >> > > between your approach and comapss?
> >> > >
> >> > > Many thanks,
> >> > > Lukas
> >> > >
> >> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard < emmanuel@hibernate.org> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi guys,
> >> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> >> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> integration
> >> > > module.
> >> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> >> search
> >> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
>
> >> > Lucene
> >> > > > ;-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> >> > infringe
> >> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> >> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> >> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
>
> >> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> >> of the
> >> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent
> >> on
> >> > > > this subject).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> >> use of
> >> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> >> choice
> >> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Emmanuel
> >> > > >
> >> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> >> > is not
> >> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
> Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Shay Banon <ki...@gmail.com>.
Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion about
Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something that
needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
Cheers,
Shay
Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>
> I forgot a couple of things.
> I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
>
> Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
>> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
>> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
>> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
>> its design.
>>
>> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
>> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
>> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
>> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
>> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
>> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
>> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the Hibernate
>> CUD operations.
>>
>> 2. Metadata
>> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
>> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
>> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
>>
>> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
>> EntityManager)
>> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
>> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the database,
>> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
>> Compass search.
>> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
>> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
>>
>> 4. Not too much abstraction
>> From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
>> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
>> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
>> infrastructure.
>> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction as
>> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
>> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
>>
>>
>> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
>> and for the future (but flexible)
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>
>> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
>> >
>> > Emanuael,
>> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
>> > Regards,
>> > Lukas
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
>> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
>> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
>> >
>> > Hi Lukas,
>> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
>> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
>> > let's move this discussion here
>> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
>> list
>> > if you want to).
>> >
>> > Emmanuel
>> >
>> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Emmanuel,
>> > >
>> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
>> > hibernate
>> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
>> > > (*stake-holder*
>> > > functionality). I have heard of
>> > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
>> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
>> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
>> > >
>> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
>> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
>> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
>> > difference
>> > > between your approach and comapss?
>> > >
>> > > Many thanks,
>> > > Lukas
>> > >
>> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi guys,
>> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
>> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
>> > > module.
>> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
>> search
>> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
>> > Lucene
>> > > > ;-)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
>> > > >
>> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
>> > infringe
>> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
>> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
>> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
>> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
>> of the
>> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent
>> on
>> > > > this subject).
>> > > >
>> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
>> use of
>> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
>> choice
>> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
>> > > >
>> > > > Emmanuel
>> > > >
>> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
>> > is not
>> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Jin Yiqing <yi...@gmail.com>.
Thanks.
I'm looking forward to your reply. :)
2006/11/23, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>:
>
> Hi Jin,
> I'll answer your email on the hibernate dev list.
> See you there :-)
>
> Jin Yiqing wrote:
> >
> > Hi,Emmanuel
> > i think you did a very greate job! Since i am now working on a system
> > that
> > using lucene to implement a search engine, i would like to know some
> more
> > details about Hinbernate Search.
> >
> > I have read some of the code in Hinbernate 3.2GA release, the code is
> > pretty cool, but there is one thing i doubt:
> >
> > For the update operation Hibernate Search used remove & update.which
> > refer
> > to Lucene's deleteDocuments method. That's ok and i also could only
> find
> > this way to update the index data. This will works fine when the
> operation
> > does not have high frequency.
> >
> > But as i know the remove operation in lucene only marked a tag for the
> > deleted document without actually delete the data ofr index files. We
> > know
> > in some systems the data would be updated in a very high frequency(eg.
> an
> > traffic status query system), then it will not take a long time that the
> > index will be filled with lots of expired document data, even if the
> data
> > update is not as fast as a traffic status, i think this problem is still
> > very critical since things we stored in databases are always updating.
> >
> > Is there any way to solve this in Hibernate Search?
> >
> >
> > Richie
> >
> >
> > 2006/11/19, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>:
> > >
> > > I forgot a couple of things.
> > > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index,
> and
> > > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe
> there
> > > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your
> index
> > > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database
> backed
> > > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> > >
> > > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> > >
> > > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> > > > code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> > > > user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> > > > that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me
> drive
> > > > its design.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> > > > 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> > > > If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> > > > those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different
> set
> > > > of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> > > > Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Queryinterface,
> > > > and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> > Hibernate
> > > > CUD operations.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Metadata
> > > > Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations,
> so
> > > > you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain
> > model
> > > > (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> > > >
> > > > 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> > > > EntityManager)
> > > > Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so
> any
> > > > change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> > database,
> > > > this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from
> a
> > > > Compass search.
> > > > This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all
> the
> > > > application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> > > >
> > > > 4. Not too much abstraction
> > > > From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design /
> classnames
> > > > from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> > > > techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> > > > infrastructure.
> > > > What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the
> > abstraction as
> > > > light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> > > > Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > > and for the future (but flexible)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> > > >
> > > > HTH
> > > >
> > > > Emmanuel
> > > >
> > > > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Emanuael,
> > > > > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Lukas
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> > > > > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > > > > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Lukas,
> > > > > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene
> > dev is
> > > > > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > > > > let's move this discussion here
> > > > > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene
> User
> > > list
> > > > > if you want to).
> > > > >
> > > > > Emmanuel
> > > > >
> > > > > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> > > > > hibernate
> > > > > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > > > > > (*stake-holder*
> > > > > > functionality). I have heard of
> > > > > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> > > introduces
> > > > > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > > > > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about
> your
> > > > > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> > > code,
> > > > > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > > > > difference
> > > > > > between your approach and comapss?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many thanks,
> > > > > > Lukas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > > > > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> > integration
> > > > > > module.
> > > > > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> > > > search
> > > > > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what,
> > I use
> > > > > Lucene
> > > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name
> might
> > > > > infringe
> > > > > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > > > > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is
> a
> > > > > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt
> > BTW)
> > > > > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> > > > of the
> > > > > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be
> > silent
> > > on
> > > > > > > this subject).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> > > > use of
> > > > > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the
> initial
> > > > choice
> > > > > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emmanuel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if
> this
> > > > > is not
> > > > > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
Hi Jin,
I'll answer your email on the hibernate dev list.
See you there :-)
Jin Yiqing wrote:
>
> Hi,Emmanuel
> i think you did a very greate job! Since i am now working on a system
> that
> using lucene to implement a search engine, i would like to know some more
> details about Hinbernate Search.
>
> I have read some of the code in Hinbernate 3.2GA release, the code is
> pretty cool, but there is one thing i doubt:
>
> For the update operation Hibernate Search used remove & update.which
> refer
> to Lucene's deleteDocuments method. That's ok and i also could only find
> this way to update the index data. This will works fine when the operation
> does not have high frequency.
>
> But as i know the remove operation in lucene only marked a tag for the
> deleted document without actually delete the data ofr index files. We
> know
> in some systems the data would be updated in a very high frequency(eg. an
> traffic status query system), then it will not take a long time that the
> index will be filled with lots of expired document data, even if the data
> update is not as fast as a traffic status, i think this problem is still
> very critical since things we stored in databases are always updating.
>
> Is there any way to solve this in Hibernate Search?
>
>
> Richie
>
>
> 2006/11/19, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>:
> >
> > I forgot a couple of things.
> > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> >
> > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> > > code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> > > user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> > > that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> > > its design.
> > >
> > > Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> > > 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> > > If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> > > those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> > > of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> > > Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> > > and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> Hibernate
> > > CUD operations.
> > >
> > > 2. Metadata
> > > Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> > > you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain
> model
> > > (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> > >
> > > 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> > > EntityManager)
> > > Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> > > change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> database,
> > > this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> > > Compass search.
> > > This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> > > application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> > >
> > > 4. Not too much abstraction
> > > From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> > > from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> > > techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> > > infrastructure.
> > > What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the
> abstraction as
> > > light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> > > Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> > >
> > >
> > > I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > and for the future (but flexible)
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Emmanuel
> > >
> > > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Emanuael,
> > > > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Lukas
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> > > > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > > > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Hi Lukas,
> > > > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene
> dev is
> > > > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > > > let's move this discussion here
> > > > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> > list
> > > > if you want to).
> > > >
> > > > Emmanuel
> > > >
> > > > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> > > > hibernate
> > > > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > > > > (*stake-holder*
> > > > > functionality). I have heard of
> > > > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> > introduces
> > > > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > > > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> > > > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> > code,
> > > > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > > > difference
> > > > > between your approach and comapss?
> > > > >
> > > > > Many thanks,
> > > > > Lukas
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > > > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> integration
> > > > > module.
> > > > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> > > search
> > > > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what,
> I use
> > > > Lucene
> > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> > > > infringe
> > > > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > > > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > > > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt
> BTW)
> > > > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> > > of the
> > > > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be
> silent
> > on
> > > > > > this subject).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> > > use of
> > > > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> > > choice
> > > > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emmanuel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> > > > is not
> > > > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Jin Yiqing <yi...@gmail.com>.
Hi,Emmanuel
i think you did a very greate job! Since i am now working on a system that
using lucene to implement a search engine, i would like to know some more
details about Hinbernate Search.
I have read some of the code in Hinbernate 3.2GA release, the code is
pretty cool, but there is one thing i doubt:
For the update operation Hibernate Search used remove & update.which refer
to Lucene's deleteDocuments method. That's ok and i also could only find
this way to update the index data. This will works fine when the operation
does not have high frequency.
But as i know the remove operation in lucene only marked a tag for the
deleted document without actually delete the data ofr index files. We know
in some systems the data would be updated in a very high frequency(eg. an
traffic status query system), then it will not take a long time that the
index will be filled with lots of expired document data, even if the data
update is not as fast as a traffic status, i think this problem is still
very critical since things we stored in databases are always updating.
Is there any way to solve this in Hibernate Search?
Richie
2006/11/19, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>:
>
> I forgot a couple of things.
> I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
>
> Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> > code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> > user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> > that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> > its design.
> >
> > Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> > 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> > If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> > those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> > of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> > Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> > and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the Hibernate
> > CUD operations.
> >
> > 2. Metadata
> > Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> > you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
> > (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> >
> > 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> > EntityManager)
> > Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> > change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the database,
> > this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> > Compass search.
> > This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> > application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> >
> > 4. Not too much abstraction
> > From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> > from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> > techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> > infrastructure.
> > What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction as
> > light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> > Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> >
> >
> > I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > and for the future (but flexible)
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >
> > > Emanuael,
> > > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > > Regards,
> > > Lukas
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> > > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Hi Lukas,
> > > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> > > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > > let's move this discussion here
> > > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> list
> > > if you want to).
> > >
> > > Emmanuel
> > >
> > > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > > >
> > > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> > > hibernate
> > > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > > > (*stake-holder*
> > > > functionality). I have heard of
> > > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> introduces
> > > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > > >
> > > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> > > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> code,
> > > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > > difference
> > > > between your approach and comapss?
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks,
> > > > Lukas
> > > >
> > > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
> > > > module.
> > > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> > search
> > > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
> > > Lucene
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> > > infringe
> > > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> > > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> > of the
> > > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent
> on
> > > > > this subject).
> > > > >
> > > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> > use of
> > > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> > choice
> > > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Emmanuel
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> > > is not
> > > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
I forgot a couple of things.
I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> its design.
>
> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the Hibernate
> CUD operations.
>
> 2. Metadata
> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
>
> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> EntityManager)
> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the database,
> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> Compass search.
> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
>
> 4. Not too much abstraction
> From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> infrastructure.
> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction as
> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
>
>
> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> and for the future (but flexible)
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
>
> HTH
>
> Emmanuel
>
> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >
> > Emanuael,
> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > Regards,
> > Lukas
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> >
> > Hi Lukas,
> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > let's move this discussion here
> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User list
> > if you want to).
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > >
> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> > hibernate
> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > > (*stake-holder*
> > > functionality). I have heard of
> > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > >
> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > difference
> > > between your approach and comapss?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > > Lukas
> > >
> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
> > > module.
> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a
> search
> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
> > Lucene
> > > > ;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > > >
> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> > infringe
> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> of the
> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> > > > this subject).
> > > >
> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> use of
> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> choice
> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > > >
> > > > Emmanuel
> > > >
> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> > is not
> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
Hi,
I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
its design.
Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the Hibernate
CUD operations.
2. Metadata
Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
(Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
EntityManager)
Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the database,
this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
Compass search.
This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
4. Not too much abstraction
From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
infrastructure.
What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction as
light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
and for the future (but flexible)
http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
HTH
Emmanuel
Lukas Vlcek wrote:
>
> Emanuael,
> I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> Regards,
> Lukas
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
> Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
>
> Hi Lukas,
> I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> let's move this discussion here
> http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User list
> if you want to).
>
> Emmanuel
>
> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >
> > Hi Emmanuel,
> >
> > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> hibernate
> > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > (*stake-holder*
> > functionality). I have heard of
> > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
> > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> >
> > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
> > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> difference
> > between your approach and comapss?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Lukas
> >
> > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys,
> > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
> > module.
> > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
> > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use
> Lucene
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > >
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > >
> > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> infringe
> > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
> > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> > > this subject).
> > >
> > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
> > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
> > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > >
> > > Emmanuel
> > >
> > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> is not
> > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Lukas Vlcek <lu...@gmail.com>.
Emanuael,
I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
Regards,
Lukas
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>
Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
Hi Lukas,
I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
let's move this discussion here
http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User list
if you want to).
Emmanuel
Lukas Vlcek wrote:
>
> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and hibernate
> in my next project and search will play very important role
> (*stake-holder*
> functionality). I have heard of
> comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
> searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
>
> Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
> couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental difference
> between your approach and comapss?
>
> Many thanks,
> Lukas
>
> On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
> module.
> > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
> > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use Lucene
> > ;-)
> >
> >
>
http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >
> > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might infringe
> > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
> > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> > this subject).
> >
> > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
> > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
> > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is not
> > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org>.
Hi Lukas,
I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
let's move this discussion here
http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User list
if you want to).
Emmanuel
Lukas Vlcek wrote:
>
> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and hibernate
> in my next project and search will play very important role
> (*stake-holder*
> functionality). I have heard of
> comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
> searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
>
> Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
> couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental difference
> between your approach and comapss?
>
> Many thanks,
> Lukas
>
> On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration
> module.
> > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
> > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use Lucene
> > ;-)
> >
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >
> > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might infringe
> > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
> > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> > this subject).
> >
> > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
> > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
> > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is not
> > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Posted by Lukas Vlcek <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi Emmanuel,
I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and hibernate
in my next project and search will play very important role (*stake-holder*
functionality). I have heard of
comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which introduces
searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate code,
couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental difference
between your approach and comapss?
Many thanks,
Lukas
On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <em...@hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene integration module.
> The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of a search
> capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I use Lucene
> ;-)
>
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
>
> I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might infringe
> the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is a
> trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt BTW)
> But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use of the
> Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent on
> this subject).
>
> Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair use of
> your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial choice
> was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
>
> Emmanuel
>
> PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this is not
> the case already (PMC or whatever)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>