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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> on 2019/03/19 17:34:37 UTC
[MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi,
Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even
if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
One second question is concerning process to vote/release the artefacts.
The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of Apache
NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch of
artefacts at
(https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/)
as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
Best Regards
Eric
PS:
(The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans because
they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I think the ticket is already done here https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17127
Staging is possible on org.netbeans. for the maven artefacts for the IDE.
Newly created artefacts will go to their org.apache.netbeans
Like netbeans-parent, and the incoming utilities that are code donation from codehaus we do a few month ago.
Regards
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>
Envoyé : lundi 25 mars 2019 13:00
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-* as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
LieGrue,
strub
Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>> trademarks@apache.org instead....
> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
>
>
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RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>.
Hi
Maybe the build-version in the manifest must follow a pattern. I see in RELEASE82 artefacts that the pattern is a date and that in the RELEASE100 or 110 we have a text+timestamp. I thinks it’s good to stay in this pattern and will regenerate artefacts using date but I’m not sure what happened in you build
Regards
Eric
De : Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
Envoyé : dimanche 7 avril 2019 11:17
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : AW: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hey Arsi,
did you tried it with NetBeans 11? Just asking.
Cheers
Chris
Von: arsi <ma...@chello.sk>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:24
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org <ma...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi,
I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the implementation version of the maven modules.
The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions...
It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution.
Thanks..
Arsi
From: Jaroslav Tulach <ma...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM
To: Dev <ma...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my
projects.
-jt
Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a):
Hi,
I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven
artefacts
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
and the 10 version here
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective
tag that was voted +1.
I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
Regards
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jaroslav Tulach <ma...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
À : Apache NetBeans <ma...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Ate wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
So +1 on this from me.
Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni <ma...@apache.org> <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
staged items
I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
The content is on apache nexus like that
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt
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AW: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Hey Arsi,
did you tried it with NetBeans 11? Just asking.
Cheers
Chris
Von: arsi
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:24
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi,
I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the implementation version of the maven modules.
The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions...
It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution.
Thanks..
Arsi
From: Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM
To: Dev <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my
projects.
-jt
Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a):
Hi,
I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven
artefacts
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
and the 10 version here
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective
tag that was voted +1.
I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
Regards
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
À : Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Ate wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
So +1 on this from me.
Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
staged items
I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
The content is on apache nexus like that
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by arsi <ar...@chello.sk>.
Hi,
I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with
the implementation version of the maven modules.
The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl
versions...
It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven
artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution.
Thanks..
Arsi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM
*To:* Dev <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
*Subject:* Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
> Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my
> projects.
> -jt
>
> Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a):
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven
>> artefacts
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
>>
>> and the 10 version here
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
>>
>> they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective
>> tag that was voted +1.
>>
>> I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
>>
>> Regards
>> Eric
>>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
>> Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
>> À : Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
>> Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
>>
>> Ate wrote:
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
>>>
>>> Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
>> (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
>>
>>> Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
>> Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
>>
>>> So +1 on this from me.
>> Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
>> through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
>> Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
>>> staged items
>> I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
>> current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
>>> The content is on apache nexus like that
>>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
>>> 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
>>> Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
>>> Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
>>> source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
>> ...count with my +1 for the
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
>> repository anytime you call the vote!
>> -jt
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my
projects.
-jt
Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a):
> Hi,
>
> I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven
> artefacts
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
>
> and the 10 version here
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
>
> they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective
> tag that was voted +1.
>
> I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
>
> Regards
> Eric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
> Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
> À : Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
> Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
>
> Ate wrote:
> > Hi Mark,
> > Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
> >
> > Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
>
> (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
>
> > Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
>
> Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
>
> > So +1 on this from me.
>
> Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
> through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
> Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
> > staged items
>
> I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
> current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
> > The content is on apache nexus like that
> > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
> > 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
> > Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
> > Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
> > source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
>
> ...count with my +1 for the
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
> repository anytime you call the vote!
> -jt
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
and the 10 version here
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1.
I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
Regards
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
À : Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Ate wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
> Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
> So +1 on this from me.
Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
> staged items
>
I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
> The content is on apache nexus like that
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
> 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
> Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
> Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
> source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
>
...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013
and the 10 version here
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1.
I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid
Regards
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
À : Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Ate wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
> Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
> So +1 on this from me.
Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
> staged items
>
I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
> The content is on apache nexus like that
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
> 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
> Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
> Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as
> source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
>
...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
Ate wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
> Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
> So +1 on this from me.
Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged
> items
>
I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
> The content is on apache nexus like that
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
> the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache
> NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this
> enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip
> already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
>
...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>.
Hi
Thanks a lot for the discussion. I'm not sure what I need to do.
On the technical part as per https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17127 the Nexus infrastructure allow to stage on the org.netbeans or org.apache.netbeans groupId.
Seamless would be org.netbeans of course.
I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged items
The content is on apache nexus like that https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)
Not presuming graduation but let's say graduation is done but artefacts from incubator Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9 are not yet published. Is a PMC allowed to release by itself or should it be also IPMC as the artefacts they belong were done during incubating period.
Best Regards
Eric
(Not very helpful but as it's a maven tools preparing the populating of the repository (not the signing phase), it is possible to run it twice to populate the both groupid)
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>
Envoyé : lundi 25 mars 2019 22:28
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
So +1 on this from me.
A few comments and remarks inline below.
On 25/03/2019 19.36, Mark Struberg wrote:
> Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils advocate.
>
> 1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans.
> 2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD and not as MUST.
Right, I should have noticed that.
> 3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are
> plenty ASF projects which use a different groupId for historical
> reasons. Please check out
> https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorag
> e
I wouldn't say 'plenty ASF projects'.
I just checked it out and besides freemarker and only a few recent commons "maintenance" releases, all other releases not under the org.apache groupId are at least from 2 or several more years ago.
In contrast to the like 100+ ASF projects which now are released under the org.apache groupId, including many/most new commons releases.
So, while it may be OK and desired for NetBeans to keep using the org.netbeans GroupId, IMO it is and remains 'uncommon' :-)
> 4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is for technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is done on the user facing level.
Sure, that makes sense to me as well.
However this isn't really made clear or explicit, at least not to my understanding.
That said: I assume this 'problem' doesn't come up so often in practice that it needed explicit attention in the policy.
>
> 5.)
>> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted>
>> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we have to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has some pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into foreign groupIds.
> 6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects based on the NetBeans core.
> NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly I do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most probably be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projects building on top of NetBeans core technologies.
> Does this make sense?
Yes.
As you said, *if* doing a groupId change, NOW would be the more sane time to do so.
And when not done now or soonish, more likely it won't be done at all, ever.
Ultimately that is a decision for the (P)PMC and community to make, as long as it is allowed and aligned with the ASF rules and policy.
Regards, Ate
> LieGrue,strub
>
> On Monday, 25 March 2019, 15:09:09 CET, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
>> We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
>>
>> Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
>> With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
>>
>> Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds.
>> Mostly because there is no exceptional management necessary in our
>> Nexus staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other
>> package names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for
>> commons-* as groupId.
>>
>> +1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
>> allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to
>> mention that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks
>> have to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's
>> about technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
>> 'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really
>> more an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
>> org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or
> had) was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens
> to be handled by the same committee.
>
> I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
> desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
> used from branding POV.
> The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
> artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
> as prefix for the GroupId:
>
> "Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They
> should
> all be subgroups of org.apache"
>
> All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
>
> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should
> be controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to
> me to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the
> rules and policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
>
> Regards,
> Ate
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>>
>> Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>>>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
>>>> of more explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these
>>>> questions at trademarks@apache.org instead....
>>> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
>>> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
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> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
So +1 on this from me.
A few comments and remarks inline below.
On 25/03/2019 19.36, Mark Struberg wrote:
> Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils advocate.
>
> 1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans.
> 2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD and not as MUST.
Right, I should have noticed that.
> 3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are plenty ASF projects which use a different groupId for historical reasons. Please check out https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorage
I wouldn't say 'plenty ASF projects'.
I just checked it out and besides freemarker and only a few recent
commons "maintenance" releases, all other releases not under the
org.apache groupId are at least from 2 or several more years ago.
In contrast to the like 100+ ASF projects which now are released under
the org.apache groupId, including many/most new commons releases.
So, while it may be OK and desired for NetBeans to keep using the
org.netbeans GroupId, IMO it is and remains 'uncommon' :-)
> 4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is for technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is done on the user facing level.
Sure, that makes sense to me as well.
However this isn't really made clear or explicit, at least not to my
understanding.
That said: I assume this 'problem' doesn't come up so often in practice
that it needed explicit attention in the policy.
>
> 5.)
>> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
>> controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we have to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has some pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into foreign groupIds.
> 6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects based on the NetBeans core.
> NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly I do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most probably be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projects building on top of NetBeans core technologies.
> Does this make sense?
Yes.
As you said, *if* doing a groupId change, NOW would be the more sane
time to do so.
And when not done now or soonish, more likely it won't be done at all,
ever.
Ultimately that is a decision for the (P)PMC and community to make, as
long as it is allowed and aligned with the ASF rules and policy.
Regards, Ate
> LieGrue,strub
>
> On Monday, 25 March 2019, 15:09:09 CET, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
>> We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
>>
>> Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
>> With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
>>
>> Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
>> because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
>> staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
>> names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
>> as groupId.
>>
>> +1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
>> allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
>> that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
>> to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
>> technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
>> 'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
>> an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
>> org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
> was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens to be
> handled by the same committee.
>
> I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
> desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
> used from branding POV.
> The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
> artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
> as prefix for the GroupId:
>
> "Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They should
> all be subgroups of org.apache"
>
> All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
>
> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
> controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to me
> to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the rules and
> policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
>
> Regards,
> Ate
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>>
>> Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>>>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
>>>> of more
>>>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>>>> trademarks@apache.org instead....
>>> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
>>> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils advocate.
1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans.
2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD and not as MUST.
3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are plenty ASF projects which use a different groupId for historical reasons. Please check out https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorage
4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is for technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is done on the user facing level.
5.)
> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
> controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we have to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has some pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into foreign groupIds.
6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects based on the NetBeans core.
NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly I do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most probably be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projects building on top of NetBeans core technologies.
Does this make sense?
LieGrue,strub
On Monday, 25 March 2019, 15:09:09 CET, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
> We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
>
> Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
> With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
>
> Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
> because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
> staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
> names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
> as groupId.
>
> +1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
> allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
> that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
>
>
> I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
> to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
> technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
> 'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
> an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
> org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
Hi Mark,
You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens to be
handled by the same committee.
I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
used from branding POV.
The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
as prefix for the GroupId:
"Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They should
all be subgroups of org.apache"
All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to me
to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the rules and
policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
Regards,
Ate
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
>>> of more
>>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>>> trademarks@apache.org instead....
>> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
>> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
> We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
>
> Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
> With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
>
> Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
> because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
> staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
> names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
> as groupId.
>
> +1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
> allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
> that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
>
>
> I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
> to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
> technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
> 'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
> an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
> org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
Hi Mark,
You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens to be
handled by the same committee.
I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
used from branding POV.
The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
as prefix for the GroupId:
"Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They should
all be subgroups of org.apache"
All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to me
to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the rules and
policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
Regards,
Ate
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
>>> of more
>>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>>> trademarks@apache.org instead....
>> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
>> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
LieGrue,
strub
Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>> trademarks@apache.org instead....
> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
> trademarks@apache.org instead....
+1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
-Bertrand
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
On 25/03/2019 05.55, Jaroslav Tulach wrote:
> Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is
> legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy.
I didn't draw that conclusion, please don't make it sound as if I did...
Instead, I wrote this:
Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed
upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
>
> [APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with
> us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the
> goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes
> driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless
> changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing
> rename disaster.
To be clear: we're discussing Maven coordinates here, not Java packages!
Java package naming is a different topic and *may* not need to follow
the rules or policy, transitionally.
For example it might be feasible to provide and use org.apache. prefixed
Maven coordinates which artifacts provide org.netbeans Java packaged
classes.
Or maybe even *also* provide org.netbeans. prefixed Maven coordinated
artifacts as transitional solution for existing Maven users.
But again, please ask at trademarks@apache.org, I'm not enough of an
expert in this matter.
>
> It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans
> Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't
> want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather
> stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is
> essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of
> NetBeans Platform "no brainer".
>
> Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates](
> https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j,
> etc.
I you actually check the above you'll notice these projects *did* move
and migrate to using the org.apache. prefix for their GroupId.
What you're pointing at are indeed *historical* (old) artifacts.
There may even be a necessary incidental maintenance/security release in
one of the old / outdated coordinates, but for *new* releases these, and
AFAIK every other ASF project with Maven artifacts, nowadays uses the
org.apache. prefix.
> It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when
> backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did
> in the NetBeans Platform.
>
> Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates
> unchanged. Thanks you.
Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
trademarks@apache.org instead.
> Jaroslav Tulach
> NetBeans Founder
> NetBeans Platform Architect
>
> po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> napsal:
>
>>
>>
>> On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
>>> artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
>>> org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
>>>
>>> It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
>>> groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever
>> even
>>> if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
>>
>> I think you must ask this on trademarks@apache.org.
>>
>> The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep
>> non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the
>> podling graduates to TLP.
>>
>> That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't
>> really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be
>> extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to
>> the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at
>> [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org.
>>
>> In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven
>> GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered
>> there, nor anywhere else I searched for it.
>> Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
>> transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
>> from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
>> So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon
>> first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
>>
>> Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area
>> how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well?
>>
>> Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven
>> GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed,
>> is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'?
>> If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to
>> migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future
>> Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases.
>> If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts?
>> Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact
>> management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds...
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One second question is concerning process to vote/release the
>> artefacts.
>>> The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of
>> Apache
>>> NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
>>>
>>> The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch
>> of
>>> artefacts at
>>> (
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/
>> )
>>> as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
>>>
>>> Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS:
>>>
>>> (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans
>> because
>>> they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
+1000 to this mail.
We've been struggling to make transition as smooth as possible for users
for some years now. Let's continue doing so.
Thanks,
Antonio
El 25/3/19 a las 5:55, Jaroslav Tulach escribió:
> Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is
> legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy.
>
> [APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with
> us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the
> goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes
> driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless
> changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing
> rename disaster.
>
> It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans
> Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't
> want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather
> stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is
> essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of
> NetBeans Platform "no brainer".
>
> Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates](
> https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j,
> etc. It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when
> backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did
> in the NetBeans Platform.
>
> Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates
> unchanged. Thanks you.
> Jaroslav Tulach
> NetBeans Founder
> NetBeans Platform Architect
>
> po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> napsal:
>
>>
>>
>> On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
>>> artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
>>> org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
>>>
>>> It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
>>> groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever
>> even
>>> if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
>>
>> I think you must ask this on trademarks@apache.org.
>>
>> The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep
>> non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the
>> podling graduates to TLP.
>>
>> That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't
>> really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be
>> extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to
>> the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at
>> [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org.
>>
>> In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven
>> GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered
>> there, nor anywhere else I searched for it.
>> Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
>> transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
>> from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
>> So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon
>> first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
>>
>> Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area
>> how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well?
>>
>> Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven
>> GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed,
>> is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'?
>> If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to
>> migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future
>> Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases.
>> If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts?
>> Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact
>> management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds...
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One second question is concerning process to vote/release the
>> artefacts.
>>> The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of
>> Apache
>>> NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
>>>
>>> The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch
>> of
>>> artefacts at
>>> (
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/
>> )
>>> as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
>>>
>>> Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS:
>>>
>>> (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans
>> because
>>> they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is
legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy.
[APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with
us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the
goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes
driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless
changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing
rename disaster.
It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans
Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't
want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather
stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is
essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of
NetBeans Platform "no brainer".
Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates](
https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j,
etc. It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when
backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did
in the NetBeans Platform.
Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates
unchanged. Thanks you.
Jaroslav Tulach
NetBeans Founder
NetBeans Platform Architect
po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> napsal:
>
>
> On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
> > artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
> > org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
> >
> > It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
> > groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever
> even
> > if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
>
> I think you must ask this on trademarks@apache.org.
>
> The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep
> non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the
> podling graduates to TLP.
>
> That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't
> really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be
> extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to
> the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at
> [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org.
>
> In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven
> GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered
> there, nor anywhere else I searched for it.
> Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
> transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
> from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
> So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon
> first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
>
> Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area
> how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well?
>
> Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven
> GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed,
> is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'?
> If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to
> migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future
> Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases.
> If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts?
> Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact
> management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds...
>
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One second question is concerning process to vote/release the
> artefacts.
> > The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of
> Apache
> > NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
> >
> > The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch
> of
> > artefacts at
> > (
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/
> )
> > as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
> >
> > Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > PS:
> >
> > (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans
> because
> > they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
> artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
> org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
>
> It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
> groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even
> if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
I think you must ask this on trademarks@apache.org.
The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep
non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the
podling graduates to TLP.
That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't
really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be
extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to
the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at
[1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org.
In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven
GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered
there, nor anywhere else I searched for it.
Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon
first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area
how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well?
Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven
GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed,
is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'?
If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to
migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future
Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases.
If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts?
Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact
management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds...
[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache
>
>
>
>
>
> One second question is concerning process to vote/release the artefacts.
> The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of Apache
> NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
>
> The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch of
> artefacts at
> (https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/)
> as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
>
> Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> PS:
>
> (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans because
> they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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