Re: Application framework technology set

[Vasanth Kamatgi <va...@ecomzera.com>]

I have been working on Ofbiz for the past 4 years and have got fairly good
proficiency in all major areas of Ofbiz.  One problem I have consistently
faced with Ofbiz is its presentation layer.  There isn’t a strict separation
of UI / Code in the presentation layer.  Due to this deficiency, for any
revamp in the UI, even though there is no associated change in the
functionality / business logic, it takes substantial amount of developer
time.  I see this as a major hindrance to a typical ecommerce website, where
UI changes are frequent as well as significant.  For this reason, I am
looking for the possibility of replacing the presentation layer with a more
modular framework with good separation of concerns of UI designer and
developer.

This is an excellent post that could have thrown more light on the issue of
replacing certain elements of Ofbiz with more powerful alternatives. 
However I see that there haven’t been many conversations on this topic for a
long time now.  I would like to see more people participate.

At this point, I am specifically looking at the possibility of replacing the
Ofbiz presentation layer with Wicket.  I wonder if anyone had tried it out. 
In addition to people who have done this experiment, I would like to hear
from others, on the possible pros / cons of this approach.  My objective is
– How to make ecommerce module amenable to major UI changes (including
swapping components from one page to another, splitting pages etc.) with
least amount of developer involvement and UI designer controlling most of
the activity.

Thanks,
Vasanth


Andrew Zeneski-2 wrote:
> 
> Anil,
> 
> These are really great questions to ask, and I am excited to see this  
> thread start. Let me be the first to say, I agree with you 100% that  
> now is the time to plan for the future.
> 
> When we started OFBiz in 2001, the tools available were less powerful  
> and less appealing than the ones available today. If we were starting  
> today I think a lot would be different. For example, I would probably  
> vote for JPA over writing another persistence layer. I would vote for  
> using Stripes, Wicket, or maybe JSF (but v2) for presentation. On the  
> service layer, I would prefer to use an existing framework be it EJB  
> (session beans) or some flavor of an ESB (maybe ServiceMix). In the  
> end, focus 100% on the applications and let the other projects focus  
> on each specific framework piece.
> 
> Most of all, I would vote in favor standardized deployment. OFBiz is  
> not SAP, we just don't have enough clout to dictate how the  
> application should be deployed. People bend over backwards and design  
> their entire infrastructure around SAP, we should do the opposite;  
> allow OFBiz to adjust to a company's infrastructure (without headaches).
> 
> The last thing I would do differently, if I could figure out a way  
> how, is to decouple the applications. So that a CRM application does  
> not require the overhead needed for Orders and Products.
> 
> Then we have the next question, what types of applications should we  
> focus now to be the leader in the next 5 years? Do with stick with  
> ERP, or do we look to make some changes? But I think this should be a  
> thread all in itself.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2008, at 7:36 PM, Anil Patel wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I am having little difficulty to envision, What Ofbiz will look like  
>> a year or two down the road?
>>
>> I am personally satisfied with most of core technologies of ofbiz  
>> except for Form widget. Form widgets needs some enhancements and  
>> even those don't seem too difficult. Ofbiz framework technologies  
>> made development lot easy back in day when J2EE made things  
>> impossible. Now, 7 years down the road, Java enterprise application  
>> development tool set has changed a lot.  What I am trying to get out  
>> of this thread is, What others in community think about it?"
>>
>> At different times, people have asked for ability to deploy ofbiz on  
>> application servers other then Tomcat, and in JEE recommended style,  
>> like create war or ear. I am curious what did these people do? Did  
>> we loose those potential ofbiz users!, Or Did they accept whatever  
>> is available and used ofbiz to solve their business problems.
>>
>> There are some JEE spec compliant technologies that we can use  
>> instead of home grown like,  use
>> 1) Ice Faces (or Myfaces) instead of Form Widget
>> 2) JPA instead of Entity engine
>> 3) EJB instead of Service engine
>> 4) Integrate with Pluto for Portal server
>> 5) use third party Content management
>>
>> I think Ofbiz community is more interested in solving business  
>> process problems instead of building cool framework. We can focus  
>> much more on business problems if we utilize third party framework  
>> technologies. Some of the frameworks have excellent support from IDE  
>> venders, great books are available to learn, existing pool of  
>> skilled developers and many more goodies that we all know.
>>
>> Open source ERP space is growing. We need to think fresh. Take a  
>> break, Plan for next 5 years, Set our goals.  All other open source  
>> ERP/CRM applications are doing it. There is no corporation behind  
>> ofbiz so its community's responsibility. Put a plan together. Make  
>> it easy for people to contribute. I am sure there are tons of people  
>> in community who want to contribute but don't know how.
>>
>> I am worried because, After working on minilang, screen widgets,  
>> form widgets,  service engine, entity engine for so long I almost  
>> forgot Java/J2EE skills set. What if Ofbiz does not remain as  
>> popular 5 years down the road, How am I going to pay for my  
>> daughters college expenses?
>>
>> This email is not intended to hurt anybody's feeling or scare  
>> anybody. Ofbiz is in great shape, I wanted to get people to speak up  
>> and help plan for future.
>>
>> Thanks and Regards
>> Anil Patel
> 
> 
>  
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Application-framework-technology-set-tp195713p963334.html
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Re: Application framework technology set

["Michael Xu (xudong)" <do...@wizitsoft.com>]

It is really a good thread. Especially those questions from Anil Patel last
year. But one year past, it seems ofbiz is still in the same place. Really
look forward to  more comments and actions.

--
Regards,
Michael Xu (xudong)
www.wizitsoft.com | Office: (8610) 6267 0615 ext 806 | Mobile: (86) 135 0135
9807 | Fax: (8610) 62670096


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Vasanth Kamatgi <va...@ecomzera.com>wrote:

>
> I have been working on Ofbiz for the past 4 years and have got fairly good
> proficiency in all major areas of Ofbiz.  One problem I have consistently
> faced with Ofbiz is its presentation layer.  There isn’t a strict
> separation
> of UI / Code in the presentation layer.  Due to this deficiency, for any
> revamp in the UI, even though there is no associated change in the
> functionality / business logic, it takes substantial amount of developer
> time.  I see this as a major hindrance to a typical ecommerce website,
> where
> UI changes are frequent as well as significant.  For this reason, I am
> looking for the possibility of replacing the presentation layer with a more
> modular framework with good separation of concerns of UI designer and
> developer.
>
> This is an excellent post that could have thrown more light on the issue of
> replacing certain elements of Ofbiz with more powerful alternatives.
> However I see that there haven’t been many conversations on this topic for
> a
> long time now.  I would like to see more people participate.
>
> At this point, I am specifically looking at the possibility of replacing
> the
> Ofbiz presentation layer with Wicket.  I wonder if anyone had tried it out.
> In addition to people who have done this experiment, I would like to hear
> from others, on the possible pros / cons of this approach.  My objective is
> – How to make ecommerce module amenable to major UI changes (including
> swapping components from one page to another, splitting pages etc.) with
> least amount of developer involvement and UI designer controlling most of
> the activity.
>
> Thanks,
> Vasanth
>
>
> Andrew Zeneski-2 wrote:
> >
> > Anil,
> >
> > These are really great questions to ask, and I am excited to see this
> > thread start. Let me be the first to say, I agree with you 100% that
> > now is the time to plan for the future.
> >
> > When we started OFBiz in 2001, the tools available were less powerful
> > and less appealing than the ones available today. If we were starting
> > today I think a lot would be different. For example, I would probably
> > vote for JPA over writing another persistence layer. I would vote for
> > using Stripes, Wicket, or maybe JSF (but v2) for presentation. On the
> > service layer, I would prefer to use an existing framework be it EJB
> > (session beans) or some flavor of an ESB (maybe ServiceMix). In the
> > end, focus 100% on the applications and let the other projects focus
> > on each specific framework piece.
> >
> > Most of all, I would vote in favor standardized deployment. OFBiz is
> > not SAP, we just don't have enough clout to dictate how the
> > application should be deployed. People bend over backwards and design
> > their entire infrastructure around SAP, we should do the opposite;
> > allow OFBiz to adjust to a company's infrastructure (without headaches).
> >
> > The last thing I would do differently, if I could figure out a way
> > how, is to decouple the applications. So that a CRM application does
> > not require the overhead needed for Orders and Products.
> >
> > Then we have the next question, what types of applications should we
> > focus now to be the leader in the next 5 years? Do with stick with
> > ERP, or do we look to make some changes? But I think this should be a
> > thread all in itself.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Oct 24, 2008, at 7:36 PM, Anil Patel wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I am having little difficulty to envision, What Ofbiz will look like
> >> a year or two down the road?
> >>
> >> I am personally satisfied with most of core technologies of ofbiz
> >> except for Form widget. Form widgets needs some enhancements and
> >> even those don't seem too difficult. Ofbiz framework technologies
> >> made development lot easy back in day when J2EE made things
> >> impossible. Now, 7 years down the road, Java enterprise application
> >> development tool set has changed a lot.  What I am trying to get out
> >> of this thread is, What others in community think about it?"
> >>
> >> At different times, people have asked for ability to deploy ofbiz on
> >> application servers other then Tomcat, and in JEE recommended style,
> >> like create war or ear. I am curious what did these people do? Did
> >> we loose those potential ofbiz users!, Or Did they accept whatever
> >> is available and used ofbiz to solve their business problems.
> >>
> >> There are some JEE spec compliant technologies that we can use
> >> instead of home grown like,  use
> >> 1) Ice Faces (or Myfaces) instead of Form Widget
> >> 2) JPA instead of Entity engine
> >> 3) EJB instead of Service engine
> >> 4) Integrate with Pluto for Portal server
> >> 5) use third party Content management
> >>
> >> I think Ofbiz community is more interested in solving business
> >> process problems instead of building cool framework. We can focus
> >> much more on business problems if we utilize third party framework
> >> technologies. Some of the frameworks have excellent support from IDE
> >> venders, great books are available to learn, existing pool of
> >> skilled developers and many more goodies that we all know.
> >>
> >> Open source ERP space is growing. We need to think fresh. Take a
> >> break, Plan for next 5 years, Set our goals.  All other open source
> >> ERP/CRM applications are doing it. There is no corporation behind
> >> ofbiz so its community's responsibility. Put a plan together. Make
> >> it easy for people to contribute. I am sure there are tons of people
> >> in community who want to contribute but don't know how.
> >>
> >> I am worried because, After working on minilang, screen widgets,
> >> form widgets,  service engine, entity engine for so long I almost
> >> forgot Java/J2EE skills set. What if Ofbiz does not remain as
> >> popular 5 years down the road, How am I going to pay for my
> >> daughters college expenses?
> >>
> >> This email is not intended to hurt anybody's feeling or scare
> >> anybody. Ofbiz is in great shape, I wanted to get people to speak up
> >> and help plan for future.
> >>
> >> Thanks and Regards
> >> Anil Patel
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n4.nabble.com/Application-framework-technology-set-tp195713p963334.html
> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>