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Posted to solr-user@lucene.apache.org by Alexandre Rafalovitch <ar...@gmail.com> on 2012/12/18 07:55:03 UTC
Beginner's view
Hello,
Again, thinking from the beginner's view, is there any reason Solr throws
scary looking exception traces in the console when it cannot find optional
html files for admin interfaces (e.g. admin-extra.menu-top.html).
>From my days of tech support, I know that operators are often trained that
ANY exception is not ok, so having several of them (and SEVERE at that)
could make people really confused and worried. And, if there were any real
exceptions in there, they may get shadowed by these less important ones.
Would it make sense to catch those exceptions and log them as Info messages
instead?
Regards,
Alex.
Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
- Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Let me see how easy it is to patch this.
Upayavira
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Erick Erickson wrote:
> Nuke 'em or something. This is one of the most annoying "errors" I see.
> I'm
> not a new user, but every time that flashes by I have to look to see what
> happened and think "Oh, it's that thing again".
>
> I added a comment to the JIRA that amounts to "nuke 'em 'til they glow
> and
> shoot 'em in the dark". I don't think we should be taking pains to insure
> that user-facing UI conveniences are available, the admin UI is a dev
> tool
> after all.
>
> FWIW,
> Erick
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch
> <ar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > I would like to - gently - disagree that creating empty files is a
> > workaround. The issue as I see it is that a beginner would not even get to
> > the point of the 'create empty files', he/she would see the exception and
> > get all worried.
> >
> > This is also problematic when writing an instruction, you tell someone to
> > look for exception as a way to recognizing that they have gotten something
> > wrong. At the same time, currently, you have to also tell them to ignore
> > some other specific exceptions. Makes no sense and makes instructions much
> > longer.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> >
> > Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
> > - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
> > once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:15 AM, Shawn Heisey <so...@elyograg.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On 12/18/2012 4:57 AM, Upayavira wrote:
> > >
> > >> The new UI includes them as ways to customise the interface merely
> > >> because they were there in the old one.
> > >>
> > >> I'm questioning whether anyone actually creates/edits those files to
> > >> customise their own admin UI, or whether that is a superfluous piece of
> > >> functionality that causes more problems (exception angst for admins)
> > >> than benefit.
> > >>
> > >
> > > These extra html files are not mentioned anywhere in my config, but I got
> > > the SEVERE errors anyway. I just created zero byte files with those
> > names
> > > (touch command on Linux), and no more errors. It's possible that I may
> > end
> > > up with a use for them later, and then it'll be a nice feature to have.
> > > I'd be OK with one line in the log at the WARN level at startup for each
> > > file that it can't find. I agree with the original poster about viewing
> > > any exceptions (especially those logged at SEVERE) as a huge problem.
> > >
> > > I have added the workaround to the comments on SOLR-3972.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> >
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>.
Nuke 'em or something. This is one of the most annoying "errors" I see. I'm
not a new user, but every time that flashes by I have to look to see what
happened and think "Oh, it's that thing again".
I added a comment to the JIRA that amounts to "nuke 'em 'til they glow and
shoot 'em in the dark". I don't think we should be taking pains to insure
that user-facing UI conveniences are available, the admin UI is a dev tool
after all.
FWIW,
Erick
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch
<ar...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I would like to - gently - disagree that creating empty files is a
> workaround. The issue as I see it is that a beginner would not even get to
> the point of the 'create empty files', he/she would see the exception and
> get all worried.
>
> This is also problematic when writing an instruction, you tell someone to
> look for exception as a way to recognizing that they have gotten something
> wrong. At the same time, currently, you have to also tell them to ignore
> some other specific exceptions. Makes no sense and makes instructions much
> longer.
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>
> Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
> - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
> once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:15 AM, Shawn Heisey <so...@elyograg.org> wrote:
>
> > On 12/18/2012 4:57 AM, Upayavira wrote:
> >
> >> The new UI includes them as ways to customise the interface merely
> >> because they were there in the old one.
> >>
> >> I'm questioning whether anyone actually creates/edits those files to
> >> customise their own admin UI, or whether that is a superfluous piece of
> >> functionality that causes more problems (exception angst for admins)
> >> than benefit.
> >>
> >
> > These extra html files are not mentioned anywhere in my config, but I got
> > the SEVERE errors anyway. I just created zero byte files with those
> names
> > (touch command on Linux), and no more errors. It's possible that I may
> end
> > up with a use for them later, and then it'll be a nice feature to have.
> > I'd be OK with one line in the log at the WARN level at startup for each
> > file that it can't find. I agree with the original poster about viewing
> > any exceptions (especially those logged at SEVERE) as a huge problem.
> >
> > I have added the workaround to the comments on SOLR-3972.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shawn
> >
> >
>
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Alexandre Rafalovitch <ar...@gmail.com>.
I would like to - gently - disagree that creating empty files is a
workaround. The issue as I see it is that a beginner would not even get to
the point of the 'create empty files', he/she would see the exception and
get all worried.
This is also problematic when writing an instruction, you tell someone to
look for exception as a way to recognizing that they have gotten something
wrong. At the same time, currently, you have to also tell them to ignore
some other specific exceptions. Makes no sense and makes instructions much
longer.
Regards,
Alex
Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
- Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 2:15 AM, Shawn Heisey <so...@elyograg.org> wrote:
> On 12/18/2012 4:57 AM, Upayavira wrote:
>
>> The new UI includes them as ways to customise the interface merely
>> because they were there in the old one.
>>
>> I'm questioning whether anyone actually creates/edits those files to
>> customise their own admin UI, or whether that is a superfluous piece of
>> functionality that causes more problems (exception angst for admins)
>> than benefit.
>>
>
> These extra html files are not mentioned anywhere in my config, but I got
> the SEVERE errors anyway. I just created zero byte files with those names
> (touch command on Linux), and no more errors. It's possible that I may end
> up with a use for them later, and then it'll be a nice feature to have.
> I'd be OK with one line in the log at the WARN level at startup for each
> file that it can't find. I agree with the original poster about viewing
> any exceptions (especially those logged at SEVERE) as a huge problem.
>
> I have added the workaround to the comments on SOLR-3972.
>
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
>
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Shawn Heisey <so...@elyograg.org>.
On 12/18/2012 4:57 AM, Upayavira wrote:
> The new UI includes them as ways to customise the interface merely
> because they were there in the old one.
>
> I'm questioning whether anyone actually creates/edits those files to
> customise their own admin UI, or whether that is a superfluous piece of
> functionality that causes more problems (exception angst for admins)
> than benefit.
These extra html files are not mentioned anywhere in my config, but I
got the SEVERE errors anyway. I just created zero byte files with those
names (touch command on Linux), and no more errors. It's possible that
I may end up with a use for them later, and then it'll be a nice feature
to have. I'd be OK with one line in the log at the WARN level at
startup for each file that it can't find. I agree with the original
poster about viewing any exceptions (especially those logged at SEVERE)
as a huge problem.
I have added the workaround to the comments on SOLR-3972.
Thanks,
Shawn
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
The new UI includes them as ways to customise the interface merely
because they were there in the old one.
I'm questioning whether anyone actually creates/edits those files to
customise their own admin UI, or whether that is a superfluous piece of
functionality that causes more problems (exception angst for admins)
than benefit.
Upayavira
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012, at 09:34 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote:
> The new UI interface does use them (at least some of them) and puts them
> into their own section. Unfortunately, the CSS reset does something funny
> to their styles (e.g. H1 looks like plain text). But they are used.
>
> Regards,
> Alex.
>
> Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
> - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
> once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Or stop including those files. They were an option in the old admin UI
> > that 'had' to be propogated through to the new one. But does anyone
> > actually use them?
> >
> > Upayavira
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012, at 07:19 AM, Shawn Heisey wrote:
> > > On 12/17/2012 11:55 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote:
> > > > Again, thinking from the beginner's view, is there any reason Solr
> > throws
> > > > scary looking exception traces in the console when it cannot find
> > optional
> > > > html files for admin interfaces (e.g. admin-extra.menu-top.html).
> > > >
> > > > From my days of tech support, I know that operators are often trained
> > that
> > > > ANY exception is not ok, so having several of them (and SEVERE at that)
> > > > could make people really confused and worried. And, if there were any
> > real
> > > > exceptions in there, they may get shadowed by these less important
> > ones.
> > > >
> > > > Would it make sense to catch those exceptions and log them as Info
> > messages
> > > > instead?
> > >
> > > I've already filed an issue for this. No activity so far.
> > >
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3972
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Shawn
> > >
> >
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Alexandre Rafalovitch <ar...@gmail.com>.
The new UI interface does use them (at least some of them) and puts them
into their own section. Unfortunately, the CSS reset does something funny
to their styles (e.g. H1 looks like plain text). But they are used.
Regards,
Alex.
Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch
- Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at
once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> Or stop including those files. They were an option in the old admin UI
> that 'had' to be propogated through to the new one. But does anyone
> actually use them?
>
> Upayavira
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012, at 07:19 AM, Shawn Heisey wrote:
> > On 12/17/2012 11:55 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote:
> > > Again, thinking from the beginner's view, is there any reason Solr
> throws
> > > scary looking exception traces in the console when it cannot find
> optional
> > > html files for admin interfaces (e.g. admin-extra.menu-top.html).
> > >
> > > From my days of tech support, I know that operators are often trained
> that
> > > ANY exception is not ok, so having several of them (and SEVERE at that)
> > > could make people really confused and worried. And, if there were any
> real
> > > exceptions in there, they may get shadowed by these less important
> ones.
> > >
> > > Would it make sense to catch those exceptions and log them as Info
> messages
> > > instead?
> >
> > I've already filed an issue for this. No activity so far.
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3972
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shawn
> >
>
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Or stop including those files. They were an option in the old admin UI
that 'had' to be propogated through to the new one. But does anyone
actually use them?
Upayavira
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012, at 07:19 AM, Shawn Heisey wrote:
> On 12/17/2012 11:55 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote:
> > Again, thinking from the beginner's view, is there any reason Solr throws
> > scary looking exception traces in the console when it cannot find optional
> > html files for admin interfaces (e.g. admin-extra.menu-top.html).
> >
> > From my days of tech support, I know that operators are often trained that
> > ANY exception is not ok, so having several of them (and SEVERE at that)
> > could make people really confused and worried. And, if there were any real
> > exceptions in there, they may get shadowed by these less important ones.
> >
> > Would it make sense to catch those exceptions and log them as Info messages
> > instead?
>
> I've already filed an issue for this. No activity so far.
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3972
>
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
Re: Beginner's view
Posted by Shawn Heisey <so...@elyograg.org>.
On 12/17/2012 11:55 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote:
> Again, thinking from the beginner's view, is there any reason Solr throws
> scary looking exception traces in the console when it cannot find optional
> html files for admin interfaces (e.g. admin-extra.menu-top.html).
>
> From my days of tech support, I know that operators are often trained that
> ANY exception is not ok, so having several of them (and SEVERE at that)
> could make people really confused and worried. And, if there were any real
> exceptions in there, they may get shadowed by these less important ones.
>
> Would it make sense to catch those exceptions and log them as Info messages
> instead?
I've already filed an issue for this. No activity so far.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3972
Thanks,
Shawn