Why MVC instead of PAC?

["Reza B'Far (Voice Genesis)" <re...@voicegenesis.com>]

Hi Folks:

I have a general question for the architects and authors of MyFaces.  Before
I state my question though, let it be known that I'm EXTREMELY appreciative
of the hard-work you folks are putting into cultivating MyFaces.  JSF is
definitely an improvement over existing stuff...

Why is it that every thing in the Java community follows MVC for SOC of
UI/Business Logic/Control?  I personally prefer PAC over MVC because of a
lot of reasons, but there are other UI patterns than PAC too.  Why is it
that everything in Java seems to be MVC based?

I personally think MVC has some massive short-comings... but that's another
discussion.  I just want to know why everything written for Java seems to
follow MVC!

I personally think that the Agent-based model of PAC would have been a lot
better fit for JSF efforts since agents more closely resemble the
component-wise approach of JSF (which is excellent).  My understanding of
the documents I've read is that JSF architecture is largely MVC based.

Reza B'Far

PS:  I have a discussion on advantages of PAC over MVC here --
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521817331/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/10
3-3893868-9407031?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

Fwd: Why MVC instead of PAC?

[Martin Marinschek <ma...@gmail.com>]

No problem, have not taken your suggestion as critical, I just wanted
to mention that we are not the community here to change the way things
are rolling in JSF.

Apart from that: I believe that in the bigger picture, JSF is no pure
MVC implementation, and that you can even find traces of PAC in it -
in my belief, in an actual working implementation you never have the
"pure" approach....

Whatever the base of JSF, I need to say that it fulfills what it
promises for me: it is a relatively (relatively due to the still
missing tool support) fast way to build web applications and reusable
web components!

regards,

Martin

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:11:11 -0800, Reza B'Far (Voice Genesis)
<re...@voicegenesis.com> wrote:
> Hi Martin:
>
> Thanks for the response... Once again, I want to make sure that you don't
> see my comments as critical towards MyFaces... I'm playing around with it
> and think it's some great work.
>
> I brought this up to some of the spec people as questions in a couple of
> Java conferences... the response is generally that they say they actually
> follow the development community... mostly struts because of its popularity.
>
> Anyways, it seems to be a chicken and egg problem.  Perhaps raising the
> issue with various people active in the open-source community will at least
> answer my question.  I'm sure this is not just a case of "well, we've always
> done it this way because... we've always done it this way"
>
> Anyways, shedding any light on the cause would be appreciated.  Once again,
> please don't think of my question as an assault on your efforts.  I
> certainly appreciate the efforts by you folks immensely.
>
> Reza
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Marinschek [mailto:martin.marinschek@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:23 AM
> To: MyFaces Discussion; reza@voicegenesis.com
> Subject: Re: Why MVC instead of PAC?
>
> you need to address that issue with the spec people - the thing is
> that myfaces is an implementation of the JSF standard, you need to
> talk to the spec people to change the standard!
>
> regards,
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:31:49 -0800, Reza B'Far (Voice Genesis)
> <re...@voicegenesis.com> wrote:
> > Hi Folks:
> >
> > I have a general question for the architects and authors of MyFaces.
> Before
> > I state my question though, let it be known that I'm EXTREMELY
> appreciative
> > of the hard-work you folks are putting into cultivating MyFaces.  JSF is
> > definitely an improvement over existing stuff...
> >
> > Why is it that every thing in the Java community follows MVC for SOC of
> > UI/Business Logic/Control?  I personally prefer PAC over MVC because of a
> > lot of reasons, but there are other UI patterns than PAC too.  Why is it
> > that everything in Java seems to be MVC based?
> >
> > I personally think MVC has some massive short-comings... but that's
> another
> > discussion.  I just want to know why everything written for Java seems to
> > follow MVC!
> >
> > I personally think that the Agent-based model of PAC would have been a lot
> > better fit for JSF efforts since agents more closely resemble the
> > component-wise approach of JSF (which is excellent).  My understanding of
> > the documents I've read is that JSF architecture is largely MVC based.
> >
> > Reza B'Far
> >
> > PS:  I have a discussion on advantages of PAC over MVC here --
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521817331/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/10
> > 3-3893868-9407031?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Why MVC instead of PAC?

[Martin Marinschek <ma...@gmail.com>]

you need to address that issue with the spec people - the thing is
that myfaces is an implementation of the JSF standard, you need to
talk to the spec people to change the standard!

regards,

Martin


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:31:49 -0800, Reza B'Far (Voice Genesis)
<re...@voicegenesis.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks:
> 
> I have a general question for the architects and authors of MyFaces.  Before
> I state my question though, let it be known that I'm EXTREMELY appreciative
> of the hard-work you folks are putting into cultivating MyFaces.  JSF is
> definitely an improvement over existing stuff...
> 
> Why is it that every thing in the Java community follows MVC for SOC of
> UI/Business Logic/Control?  I personally prefer PAC over MVC because of a
> lot of reasons, but there are other UI patterns than PAC too.  Why is it
> that everything in Java seems to be MVC based?
> 
> I personally think MVC has some massive short-comings... but that's another
> discussion.  I just want to know why everything written for Java seems to
> follow MVC!
> 
> I personally think that the Agent-based model of PAC would have been a lot
> better fit for JSF efforts since agents more closely resemble the
> component-wise approach of JSF (which is excellent).  My understanding of
> the documents I've read is that JSF architecture is largely MVC based.
> 
> Reza B'Far
> 
> PS:  I have a discussion on advantages of PAC over MVC here --
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521817331/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/10
> 3-3893868-9407031?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
> 
>