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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> on 2012/05/10 22:17:46 UTC
[WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Hi Jürgen, Dave, *
On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 09:56:25PM +0200, Juergen Schmidt wrote:
> On Wednesday, 9. May 2012 at 19:40, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > We know AOO website is not set up to be (easily?) localized, but we've
> > been doing our best with the guys on the Spanish mailing list to update
> > the Spanish NL site, mainly translating /adapting the main English site.
> >
> > I've been trying to translate the download page, you can find it at
> > http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/es/descargar/index.html
> > So far I see two (main) issues:
> >
> > * I had to make a copy of exceptions.css to adapt the cachedimages/*.png
> > URLs
> >
> > * we want the look & feel and the system detection, but not the
> > language detection: the user is on the Spanish site, the download must
> > be a Spanish package. I hacked this by adding a variable that is set
> > on the localized index.html via setLanguage("es"); then this variable
> > is used instead of navigator.language. I guess that instead of this,
> > the script code could detect if it is invoked from /download/index.html
> > or /$LANG/xxx/[.../]index..html
> > Is this solvable? Anyone with a better idea?
> > The page looks like:
> > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/www-es-descargar.png
> > with this patch applied::
> > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/localize-download-index-html.patch
> >
> >
> > In a perfect situation, the site should be localizable with PO files,
> > and no need to hack stuff... but we are far from this situation.
> >
> >
>
> but it is worth to think in this direction and focus future work to this as well.
> I like this and will support all efforts going in this direction.
It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion didn't
have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse the NL sites,
and in several cases you get the feeling that you are in an abandoned
place; this will give our users a very bad idea of what's happening at
AOO.
Just some examples:
* http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/de/index.html last Neuigkeit:
26.01.2011 OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 wurde veröffentlicht
* if you look for mailing lists on the French site, you end up in
http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/fr/contact-forums.html
* on the main site, there is some rather old content that now is
outdated and/or looks ugly in the new site layout
http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/product/index.html the screen shot
is from an older version
http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/why/index.html looks rather ugly;
IIRC on the old site this page was displayed on a separated window,
now it looks rather unprofessional
These examples show that there is a lot to update on the main site *and*
the NL sites; instead of multiplying the efforts, we should think of
a set-up where the web designers only have to design one site,
translators localize the site and volunteers update other localizable
content like screenshots.
Following the main site, I'd think of a common set of pages containing
the basic information that should be provided to our users (folder names
could be localizable, see the directory structure in
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es/ )
/$LANG/index.html
div actionstatements - the actions list
div news - some news
/$LANG/product/ - describing AOO applications
/$LANG/why/ - what is AOO and why should you use it
/$LANG/social/ - Social Networks
/$LANG/support/ - Mailing lists, forum, documentation
/$LANG/download/ - Downloads, Checksums
/$LANG/participate/ - How to participate in AOO
/$LANG/extensions/ - Extensions and templates information
/$LANG/news/ - News, Announcements, Releases Notes
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Andrea, *,
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 04:42:46PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> >It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
> >having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion didn't
> >have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse the NL sites
>
> I'd say it's OK to standardize when a certain NL section is not
> being maintained or is easier to redo it from scratch; but I would
> also give actively maintained NL sections the possibility to differ
> from the standard template, while maybe keeping some basic
> consistence (at least using NL/download/ for downloads).
In this case, for the Spanish site, I've created
http://www.openoffice.org/es/descargar/index.html which is almost like
http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html In this example, the
standard template can be designed to make all pages alike while allowing
for customization (in the "Additional Information", for example), just
like it's currently done with topnav.mdtext (where you can remove/add
items, make them link to the page you want).
There are many issues with the current state of things, the two most
important I found are:
* waste of resources: several people designing/maintaining/updating
different NL sites
* difficult for the PPMC to control NL site content (and control
internal disputes).
With a common set of pages (allowing for customization of these pages,
and also custom pages) I can think of a work-flow similar to:
* marketing people discuss general design and content
* documentation writers write the content
* web developers/designers implement the design
* translators translate the content
The current waste of resources is that all these tasks are currently
done for the main site *and* the (maintained) NL sites. Just to quote
the Spanish site example:
It had so many outdated and Apache-way-dubious content that it was
better to re-"design" the whole site; we took the content from the main
site and adapted it, then translate it. "Adapting" took me a month of
the time I dedicate to AOO in order to set up the "Complete Local
Development" (I first tried the CMS, but was not suitable for the task),
learn how to set it up in my local http server, etc.; in short, an
unpleasant job, as I am not a web designer nor a web developer, and an
awful translator.
Translation was done by the guys at the Spanish mailing lists, and here
again you can see the waste of resources and time in learning how to use
the CMS et. al., while it would have been simpler to have the strings to
translate in the Pootle server.
Concerning the PPMC control, we've all read the tone in the FR
dispute... It's not about freaking-PPMC-control.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 10/05/2012 Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
> having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion didn't
> have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse the NL sites
I'd say it's OK to standardize when a certain NL section is not being
maintained or is easier to redo it from scratch; but I would also give
actively maintained NL sections the possibility to differ from the
standard template, while maybe keeping some basic consistence (at least
using NL/download/ for downloads).
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 13, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 09:38:42AM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>> I wanted a left navigation div, like
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
>>>>>
>>>>> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
>>>>
>>>> What about the navigation menu on the right at
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/nl/ ?
>>>>
>>>> Putting it on the left would be trivial.
>>>
>>> It's nice, but it's part of a table design. I was thinking about
>>> a general approach, using the new tools we have. You can see the
>>> example in the API site: http://www.openoffice.org/api/ where the
>>> left navigator DIV is simply a MardDown text file: simple to
>>> translate, no need to mess up with HTML, etc.
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/api/leftnav.mdtext?revision=1291111&view=markup
>>>
>>> The issue here is that lib/view.pm only accepts a leftnav.mdtext for
>>> the main site, or one of the subfolders, like conent/api, but not
>>> for more internal subfolders like content/es/producto/
>>
>> This is true for now, but we can always change what I did in view.pm
>> and the templates structure.
>>
>> We can move ssi.mdtext from the templates tree to the content tree. In
>> view.pm we can scan for ssi.mdtext from the current folder up to the
>> root.
>>
>> This will allow the available rightnav.mdtext and leftnav.mdtext divs
>> in the page design to be triggered at any level.
>
> I tried to do it, with my almost null Perl skills:
> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
> I guess it's more clever to check first if there is a ssi.mdtext in the
> current folder than searching recursively upper levels for every and
> each file (my dummy solution).
Two changes would be done.
(a) Move ssi.mdtext to the content tree.
(b) Change and rename the templates_folder routine into a find_ssi routine that starts in the current content directory and then moves up levels until one is found.
The only challenge is how to make changes in an ssi.mdtext cause rebuilds to all pages in that directory. Currently we use a change to view.pm to trigger that. I'll ask Joe on the Apache CMS thread.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Dave,
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 09:38:42AM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >>> I wanted a left navigation div, like
> >>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
> >>>
> >>> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
> >>
> >> What about the navigation menu on the right at
> >> http://www.openoffice.org/nl/ ?
> >>
> >> Putting it on the left would be trivial.
> >
> > It's nice, but it's part of a table design. I was thinking about
> > a general approach, using the new tools we have. You can see the
> > example in the API site: http://www.openoffice.org/api/ where the
> > left navigator DIV is simply a MardDown text file: simple to
> > translate, no need to mess up with HTML, etc.
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/api/leftnav.mdtext?revision=1291111&view=markup
> >
> > The issue here is that lib/view.pm only accepts a leftnav.mdtext for
> > the main site, or one of the subfolders, like conent/api, but not
> > for more internal subfolders like content/es/producto/
>
> This is true for now, but we can always change what I did in view.pm
> and the templates structure.
>
> We can move ssi.mdtext from the templates tree to the content tree. In
> view.pm we can scan for ssi.mdtext from the current folder up to the
> root.
>
> This will allow the available rightnav.mdtext and leftnav.mdtext divs
> in the page design to be triggered at any level.
I tried to do it, with my almost null Perl skills:
http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
I guess it's more clever to check first if there is a ssi.mdtext in the
current folder than searching recursively upper levels for every and
each file (my dummy solution).
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 13, 2012, at 8:58 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 05:47:01PM +0200, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>> Hi Ariel,
>>
>> Op 11-5-2012 13:25, Ariel Constenla-Haile schreef:
>>
>>> I wanted a left navigation div, like
>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
>>>
>>> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
>>
>> What about the navigation menu on the right at
>> http://www.openoffice.org/nl/ ?
>>
>> Putting it on the left would be trivial.
>
> It's nice, but it's part of a table design. I was thinking about
> a general approach, using the new tools we have. You can see the example
> in the API site: http://www.openoffice.org/api/ where the left navigator
> DIV is simply a MardDown text file: simple to translate, no need to mess
> up with HTML, etc.
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/api/leftnav.mdtext?revision=1291111&view=markup
>
> The issue here is that lib/view.pm only accepts a leftnav.mdtext for the
> main site, or one of the subfolders, like conent/api, but not for more
> internal subfolders like content/es/producto/
This is true for now, but we can always change what I did in view.pm and the templates structure.
We can move ssi.mdtext from the templates tree to the content tree. In view.pm we can scan for ssi.mdtext from the current folder up to the root.
This will allow the available rightnav.mdtext and leftnav.mdtext divs in the page design to be triggered at any level.
There will need to be special procedures when ssi.mdtext files are changed.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Simon,
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 05:47:01PM +0200, Simon Brouwer wrote:
> Hi Ariel,
>
> Op 11-5-2012 13:25, Ariel Constenla-Haile schreef:
>
> >I wanted a left navigation div, like
> >http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
> >
> >It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
>
> What about the navigation menu on the right at
> http://www.openoffice.org/nl/ ?
>
> Putting it on the left would be trivial.
It's nice, but it's part of a table design. I was thinking about
a general approach, using the new tools we have. You can see the example
in the API site: http://www.openoffice.org/api/ where the left navigator
DIV is simply a MardDown text file: simple to translate, no need to mess
up with HTML, etc.
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/api/leftnav.mdtext?revision=1291111&view=markup
The issue here is that lib/view.pm only accepts a leftnav.mdtext for the
main site, or one of the subfolders, like conent/api, but not for more
internal subfolders like content/es/producto/
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Simon Brouwer <si...@brousant.nl>.
Hi Ariel,
Op 11-5-2012 13:25, Ariel Constenla-Haile schreef:
> I wanted a left navigation div, like
> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
>
> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
What about the navigation menu on the right at
http://www.openoffice.org/nl/ ?
Putting it on the left would be trivial.
--
Vriendelijke groet, Best regards,
Simon Brouwer
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 15, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:04:17PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> For the Spanish version I have split /why/ into single pages,
>>> something similar is done with /product/
>>>
>>> en: http://www.openoffice.org/why/index.html es:
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/es/por-que/index.html
>>>
>>> en: http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html es:
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/es/producto/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted a left navigation div, like
>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
>>>
>>> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
>>> I'm not familiar with all that Markdown and view.pm, sure you can
>>> think something better :)
>>
>> Ariel,
>>
>> Please checkin all of your patch except for the part involving
>> view.pm.
>
> Done.
>
>> I will adapt view.pm to handle whatever tree of ssi.mdtext is found in
>> the templates directory. One change at a time.
>
> Thanks :)
Done in r1338953
Much cleaner now. Enjoy.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Dave,
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:04:17PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> > For the Spanish version I have split /why/ into single pages,
> > something similar is done with /product/
> >
> > en: http://www.openoffice.org/why/index.html es:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/es/por-que/index.html
> >
> > en: http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html es:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/es/producto/index.html
> >
> >
> > I wanted a left navigation div, like
> > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
> >
> > It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
> > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
> > I'm not familiar with all that Markdown and view.pm, sure you can
> > think something better :)
>
> Ariel,
>
> Please checkin all of your patch except for the part involving
> view.pm.
Done.
> I will adapt view.pm to handle whatever tree of ssi.mdtext is found in
> the templates directory. One change at a time.
Thanks :)
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 11, 2012, at 4:25 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 01:50:59PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
>>> having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion
>>> didn't have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse
>>> the NL sites, and in several cases you get the feeling that you are
>>> in an abandoned place; this will give our users a very bad idea of
>>> what's happening at AOO.
>>>
>>> Just some examples:
>>>
>>> * http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/de/index.html last Neuigkeit:
>>> 26.01.2011 OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 wurde veröffentlicht
>>>
>>> * if you look for mailing lists on the French site, you end up in
>>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/fr/contact-forums.html
>>>
>>> * on the main site, there is some rather old content that now is
>>> outdated and/or looks ugly in the new site layout
>>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/product/index.html the screen
>>> shot is from an older version
>>>
>>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/why/index.html looks rather
>>> ugly; IIRC on the old site this page was displayed on a separated
>>> window, now it looks rather unprofessional
>>
>> It is seriously out of date. I think that the ENglish version needs to
>> be reworked by ooo-marketing. Personally I would go with simple
>> mdtext. This part has a long way to go.
>>
>>>
>>> These examples show that there is a lot to update on the main site
>>> *and* the NL sites; instead of multiplying the efforts, we should
>>> think of a set-up where the web designers only have to design one
>>> site, translators localize the site and volunteers update other
>>> localizable content like screenshots.
>>
>> Now that we have released we are actually seeing activity on the
>> various pages. That allows us to move forward.
>>
>>> Following the main site, I'd think of a common set of pages
>>> containing the basic information that should be provided to our
>>> users (folder names could be localizable, see the directory
>>> structure in
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es/
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>> /$LANG/index.html div actionstatements - the actions list div news
>>> - some news
>>
>> I've been think about this one as index.mdtext for the actions and
>> a news feed. Most of the current index.html is converted into
>> a templates/index.html - logic can use "$LANG" to override the GetLang
>> JS.
>>
>>> /$LANG/product/ - describing AOO applications
>>
>> Suggest mdtext for each application. draw.mdtext, writer.mdtext, and
>> then wrap it up.
>>
>>>
>>> /$LANG/why/ - what is AOO and why should you use it
>>
>> Suggest mdtext for each category, government, education, ... re-use
>> product ...
>
>
> For the Spanish version I have split /why/ into single pages, something
> similar is done with /product/
>
> en: http://www.openoffice.org/why/index.html
> es: http://www.openoffice.org/es/por-que/index.html
>
> en: http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html
> es: http://www.openoffice.org/es/producto/index.html
>
>
> I wanted a left navigation div, like
> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
>
> It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
> I'm not familiar with all that Markdown and view.pm, sure you can think
> something better :)
Ariel,
Please checkin all of your patch except for the part involving view.pm.
I will adapt view.pm to handle whatever tree of ssi.mdtext is found in the templates directory. One change at a time.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues
translating download/index.html)
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi David,
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 01:50:59PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> > It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
> > having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion
> > didn't have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse
> > the NL sites, and in several cases you get the feeling that you are
> > in an abandoned place; this will give our users a very bad idea of
> > what's happening at AOO.
> >
> > Just some examples:
> >
> > * http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/de/index.html last Neuigkeit:
> > 26.01.2011 OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 wurde veröffentlicht
> >
> > * if you look for mailing lists on the French site, you end up in
> > http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/fr/contact-forums.html
> >
> > * on the main site, there is some rather old content that now is
> > outdated and/or looks ugly in the new site layout
> > http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/product/index.html the screen
> > shot is from an older version
> >
> > http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/why/index.html looks rather
> > ugly; IIRC on the old site this page was displayed on a separated
> > window, now it looks rather unprofessional
>
> It is seriously out of date. I think that the ENglish version needs to
> be reworked by ooo-marketing. Personally I would go with simple
> mdtext. This part has a long way to go.
>
> >
> > These examples show that there is a lot to update on the main site
> > *and* the NL sites; instead of multiplying the efforts, we should
> > think of a set-up where the web designers only have to design one
> > site, translators localize the site and volunteers update other
> > localizable content like screenshots.
>
> Now that we have released we are actually seeing activity on the
> various pages. That allows us to move forward.
>
> > Following the main site, I'd think of a common set of pages
> > containing the basic information that should be provided to our
> > users (folder names could be localizable, see the directory
> > structure in
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es/
> > )
> >
> >
> > /$LANG/index.html div actionstatements - the actions list div news
> > - some news
>
> I've been think about this one as index.mdtext for the actions and
> a news feed. Most of the current index.html is converted into
> a templates/index.html - logic can use "$LANG" to override the GetLang
> JS.
>
> > /$LANG/product/ - describing AOO applications
>
> Suggest mdtext for each application. draw.mdtext, writer.mdtext, and
> then wrap it up.
>
> >
> > /$LANG/why/ - what is AOO and why should you use it
>
> Suggest mdtext for each category, government, education, ... re-use
> product ...
For the Spanish version I have split /why/ into single pages, something
similar is done with /product/
en: http://www.openoffice.org/why/index.html
es: http://www.openoffice.org/es/por-que/index.html
en: http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html
es: http://www.openoffice.org/es/producto/index.html
I wanted a left navigation div, like
http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/why-product-left-nav.png
It turns out it's not possible to do so without some hack:
http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/0001-Add-left-navigativon-div-in-product-and-why.patch
I'm not familiar with all that Markdown and view.pm, sure you can think
something better :)
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 10, 2012, at 1:17 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi Jürgen, Dave, *
>
> On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 09:56:25PM +0200, Juergen Schmidt wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 9. May 2012 at 19:40, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> We know AOO website is not set up to be (easily?) localized, but we've
>>> been doing our best with the guys on the Spanish mailing list to update
>>> the Spanish NL site, mainly translating /adapting the main English site.
>>>
>>> I've been trying to translate the download page, you can find it at
>>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/es/descargar/index.html
>>> So far I see two (main) issues:
>>>
>>> * I had to make a copy of exceptions.css to adapt the cachedimages/*.png
>>> URLs
>>>
>>> * we want the look & feel and the system detection, but not the
>>> language detection: the user is on the Spanish site, the download must
>>> be a Spanish package. I hacked this by adding a variable that is set
>>> on the localized index.html via setLanguage("es"); then this variable
>>> is used instead of navigator.language. I guess that instead of this,
>>> the script code could detect if it is invoked from /download/index.html
>>> or /$LANG/xxx/[.../]index..html
>>> Is this solvable? Anyone with a better idea?
>>> The page looks like:
>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/www-es-descargar.png
>>> with this patch applied::
>>> http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/localize-download-index-html.patch
>>>
>>>
>>> In a perfect situation, the site should be localizable with PO files,
>>> and no need to hack stuff... but we are far from this situation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> but it is worth to think in this direction and focus future work to this as well.
>> I like this and will support all efforts going in this direction.
>
> It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
> having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion didn't
> have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse the NL sites,
> and in several cases you get the feeling that you are in an abandoned
> place; this will give our users a very bad idea of what's happening at
> AOO.
>
> Just some examples:
>
> * http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/de/index.html last Neuigkeit:
> 26.01.2011 OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 wurde veröffentlicht
>
> * if you look for mailing lists on the French site, you end up in
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/fr/contact-forums.html
>
> * on the main site, there is some rather old content that now is
> outdated and/or looks ugly in the new site layout
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/product/index.html the screen shot
> is from an older version
>
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/why/index.html looks rather ugly;
> IIRC on the old site this page was displayed on a separated window,
> now it looks rather unprofessional
It is seriously out of date. I think that the ENglish version needs to be reworked by ooo-marketing. Personally I would go with simple mdtext. This part has a long way to go.
>
> These examples show that there is a lot to update on the main site *and*
> the NL sites; instead of multiplying the efforts, we should think of
> a set-up where the web designers only have to design one site,
> translators localize the site and volunteers update other localizable
> content like screenshots.
Now that we have released we are actually seeing activity on the various pages. That allows us to move forward.
> Following the main site, I'd think of a common set of pages containing
> the basic information that should be provided to our users (folder names
> could be localizable, see the directory structure in
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es/ )
>
>
> /$LANG/index.html
> div actionstatements - the actions list
> div news - some news
I've been think about this one as index.mdtext for the actions and a news feed. Most of the current index.html is converted into a templates/index.html - logic can use "$LANG" to override the GetLang JS.
> /$LANG/product/ - describing AOO applications
Suggest mdtext for each application. draw.mdtext, writer.mdtext, and then wrap it up.
>
> /$LANG/why/ - what is AOO and why should you use it
Suggest mdtext for each category, government, education, ... re-use product ...
>
> /$LANG/social/ - Social Networks
>
> /$LANG/support/ - Mailing lists, forum, documentation
>
> /$LANG/download/ - Downloads, Checksums
Here we build from mdtext and a release.xml or similar.
>
> /$LANG/participate/ - How to participate in AOO
>
> /$LANG/extensions/ - Extensions and templates information
>
> /$LANG/news/ - News, Announcements, Releases Notes
The trick will be to go to the main mdtext when the $LANG mdtext is missing.
Something similar is done to select the ssi.mdtext in ooo-site/trunk/lib/view.pm
# default navbars and mdtext from templates/ssi.mdtext.
my $templates_folder = "templates";
if (-d $templates_folder) {
for my $f (grep -f, "$templates_folder/ssi.mdtext") {
$f =~ m!/([^/]+)\.mdtext$! or die "Bad filename: $f\n";
$args{$1} = {};
read_text_file $f, $args{$1};
}
}
# folder specific overrides
$templates_folder = templatesfolder($args{path});
$args{templates_folder} = $templates_folder;
if (-d $templates_folder) {
for my $f (grep -f, "$templates_folder/ssi.mdtext") {
$f =~ m!/([^/]+)\.mdtext$! or die "Bad filename: $f\n";
$args{$1} = {};
read_text_file $f, $args{$1};
}
}
Let's separate the design and layout from the content. That's really why we use markdown.
I'll try to do a simple design mockup very soon, meanwhile an area - why, product - could be chosen and the component mdtext files written and translated. Be cautious and don't have both calc.mdtext and calc.html in the same directory.
Thanks for bringing this up and putting all these abandoned areas in focus!
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: [WWW] Common layout and content for NL sites (was: Some
issues translating download/index.html)
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
On Thursday, 10. May 2012 at 22:17, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hi Jürgen, Dave, *
>
> On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 09:56:25PM +0200, Juergen Schmidt wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 9. May 2012 at 19:40, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > We know AOO website is not set up to be (easily?) localized, but we've
> > > been doing our best with the guys on the Spanish mailing list to update
> > > the Spanish NL site, mainly translating /adapting the main English site.
> > >
> > > I've been trying to translate the download page, you can find it at
> > > http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/es/descargar/index.html
> > > So far I see two (main) issues:
> > >
> > > * I had to make a copy of exceptions.css to adapt the cachedimages/*.png
> > > URLs
> > >
> > > * we want the look & feel and the system detection, but not the
> > > language detection: the user is on the Spanish site, the download must
> > > be a Spanish package. I hacked this by adding a variable that is set
> > > on the localized index.html via setLanguage("es"); then this variable
> > > is used instead of navigator.language. I guess that instead of this,
> > > the script code could detect if it is invoked from /download/index.html
> > > or /$LANG/xxx/[.../]index..html
> > > Is this solvable? Anyone with a better idea?
> > > The page looks like:
> > > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/images/www-es-descargar.png
> > > with this patch applied::
> > > http://people.apache.org/~arielch/patches/localize-download-index-html.patch
> > >
> > >
> > > In a perfect situation, the site should be localizable with PO files,
> > > and no need to hack stuff... but we are far from this situation.
> > >
> >
> >
> > but it is worth to think in this direction and focus future work to this as well.
> > I like this and will support all efforts going in this direction.
> >
>
>
> It has been discussed on the list several times before the idea of
> having a common set of pages in all NL sites, but the discussion didn't
> have a conclusion. Now that AOO 3.4 is out, one can browse the NL sites,
> and in several cases you get the feeling that you are in an abandoned
> place; this will give our users a very bad idea of what's happening at
> AOO.
>
> Just some examples:
>
> * http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/de/index.html last Neuigkeit:
> 26.01.2011 OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 wurde veröffentlicht
>
> * if you look for mailing lists on the French site, you end up in
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/fr/contact-forums.html
>
> * on the main site, there is some rather old content that now is
> outdated and/or looks ugly in the new site layout
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/product/index.html the screen shot
> is from an older version
>
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/why/index.html looks rather ugly;
> IIRC on the old site this page was displayed on a separated window,
> now it looks rather unprofessional
>
> These examples show that there is a lot to update on the main site *and*
> the NL sites; instead of multiplying the efforts, we should think of
> a set-up where the web designers only have to design one site,
> translators localize the site and volunteers update other localizable
> content like screenshots.
>
> Following the main site, I'd think of a common set of pages containing
> the basic information that should be provided to our users (folder names
> could be localizable, see the directory structure in
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es/ )
>
>
> /$LANG/index.html
> div actionstatements - the actions list
> div news - some news
>
> /$LANG/product/ - describing AOO applications
>
> /$LANG/why/ - what is AOO and why should you use it
>
> /$LANG/social/ - Social Networks
>
> /$LANG/support/ - Mailing lists, forum, documentation
>
> /$LANG/download/ - Downloads, Checksums
>
> /$LANG/participate/ - How to participate in AOO
>
> /$LANG/extensions/ - Extensions and templates information
>
> /$LANG/news/ - News, Announcements, Releases Notes
>
>
+1 for this proposal and thanks for picking this up...
Juergen
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>
>