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Posted to dev@clerezza.apache.org by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <me...@farewellutopia.com> on 2011/10/03 17:18:07 UTC
Re: Newbie Question
Hi Sam,
Good you came across clerezza.
You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
(http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
the social web.
There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
- Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
to try again)
- Have an "app-store" on the website
- Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
- As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
version (see http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E)
Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
Cheers,
Reto
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And oddly
> enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've zealously
> promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
>
> Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there someone
> on this list who can provide some history and background for Clerezza? Who
> is behind it? What is the roadmap?
>
> Any insight and details are appreciated!
>
> Thank you!
> Sam
>
Re: Newbie Question
Posted by Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com>.
Reto,
Thank you for your reply! I found your last comment very interesting!
"...instead of downloading a graph using a sparql endpoint one can upload a
bundle
that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data..."
This, to me, hints toward the Semantic Web's original vision, wherein
intelligent [software] agents interact with semantic data to accomplish
tasks. Instead of moving the data around, move the functions (software)
around. It seems like security becomes the main concern, and the inhibitor.
I don't know.
Thank you!
Sam
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
<me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> Distributing Clerezza in a distributed OSGi einvironment should be
> possible, but it would only bring significant benefit if, as you suggest,
> it would be aligned with query functionality.
>
> A possibly distinct field to improve distributing computing over the
> network would be access as (m)graphs of remote sparql endpoint, the most
> difficult challenge I think would be to support caching.
>
> Yet another distributed facility might base on code based bundle
> permissions which is (at least somehow) supported in clerezza. So instead
> of downloading a graph of using a sparql endpoint one can upload a bundle
> that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data.
>
> Reto
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Reto,
> >
> > Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
> >
> > I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
> > distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and
> "cloud".
> > As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When
> the
> > knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
> > unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
> > "cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much
> worse!
> > Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
> > systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed.
> As
> > data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
> > distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
> >
> > So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will
> align
> > with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
> > parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
> >
> > I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can,
> but
> > I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
> > focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Sam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> > <me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sam,
> > >
> > > Good you came across clerezza.
> > >
> > > You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> > > some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> > > which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> > > in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> > > not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> > > platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> > > the social web.
> > >
> > > There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> > > committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
> > >
> > > - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> > > to try again)
> > > - Have an "app-store" on the website
> > > - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> > > - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> > > with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> > > version (see
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > )
> > >
> > > Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> > > there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Reto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > > > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And
> > oddly
> > > > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've
> zealously
> > > > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> > > >
> > > > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > > > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> > > someone
> > > > on this list who can provide some history and background for
> Clerezza?
> > > Who
> > > > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> > > >
> > > > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> > > >
> > > > Thank you!
> > > > Sam
>
Re: Newbie Question
Posted by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <me...@farewellutopia.com>.
Hi Sam,
Distributing Clerezza in a distributed OSGi einvironment should be
possible, but it would only bring significant benefit if, as you suggest,
it would be aligned with query functionality.
A possibly distinct field to improve distributing computing over the
network would be access as (m)graphs of remote sparql endpoint, the most
difficult challenge I think would be to support caching.
Yet another distributed facility might base on code based bundle
permissions which is (at least somehow) supported in clerezza. So instead
of downloading a graph of using a sparql endpoint one can upload a bundle
that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data.
Reto
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Reto,
>
> Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
>
> I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
> distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and "cloud".
> As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When the
> knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
> unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
> "cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much worse!
> Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
> systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed. As
> data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
> distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
>
> So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will align
> with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
> parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
>
> I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can, but
> I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
> focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thank you!
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> <me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > Good you came across clerezza.
> >
> > You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> > (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> > some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> > which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> > in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> > not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> > platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> > the social web.
> >
> > There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> > committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
> >
> > - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> > to try again)
> > - Have an "app-store" on the website
> > - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> > - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> > with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> > version (see
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > )
> >
> > Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> > there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Reto
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And
> oddly
> > > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've zealously
> > > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> > >
> > > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> > someone
> > > on this list who can provide some history and background for Clerezza?
> > Who
> > > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> > >
> > > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > > Sam
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Chance
> 443-694-5293 (m)
>
Re: Newbie Question
Posted by Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com>.
Reto,
Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and "cloud".
As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When the
knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
"cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much worse!
Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed. As
data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will align
with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can, but
I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
Thoughts?
Thank you!
Sam
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
<me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> Good you came across clerezza.
>
> You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> the social web.
>
> There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
>
> - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> to try again)
> - Have an "app-store" on the website
> - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> version (see
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> )
>
> Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
>
> Cheers,
> Reto
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And oddly
> > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've zealously
> > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> >
> > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> someone
> > on this list who can provide some history and background for Clerezza?
> Who
> > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> >
> > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Sam
> >
>
--
Sam Chance
443-694-5293 (m)