You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by Harald Falkenberg <ha...@desy.de> on 2003/01/23 20:11:29 UTC
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Hi,
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> > several question concerning http header last-modified.
> >
> > I'm using apache 1.3.27 on Solaris 7.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > 1. Sometimes I see in the HEAD information a last-modification info and
> > sometimes not. What are dependencies?
>
> Apache sends last-modified info when it can determine it. In general,
> that is only for content that comes from disk and is not processed by any
> dynamic handlers like mod_include, mod_cgi, etc. Other modules or CGIs
> can also set the last-modified header if they can figure out the correct
> date.
>
> > 2. Search engines as well as caches look for last-modification date in the
> > w3c format "yyyy-mm-dd...". The standard apache configuration uses a
> > different last-modification date format in the http header.
>
> I can't figure out what you are talking about here. Apache uses HTTP
> standard date formats. If your search engine can't understand it, it is
> probably broken.
when I look for my last-modification dates from the apache server I see
the following as sample:
Last-Modified: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:53:41 GMT
In the W3C HTTP/HTML spec, which are used by the search engines I read
that the meta data format is like this
yyyy-mm-ddThh:mi
Either the last-modification date format is different to that meta data
format or I have to change something. This is the question I tried to
formulate. Can you help me to clarify the situation?
regards
Harald
>
> Joshua.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> an additional question: in the case of non static pages (not only CGIs,
> also SSI, php or mod_perl, mod_layout parsed pages), can I ensure, that
> the last-modification http header is send with the mtime of the static
> part/page?
mod_include (SSI) has this feature using XBitHack Full. For CGI, the
script itself is responsible. For the others, I haven't looked.
Something you might want to think about is using mod_exires, which
generates Expires and Cache-control headers. These are the headers more
traditionally used with non-static content. Of course, you'll need to
check if they work with your particular application.
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Harald Falkenberg <ha...@desy.de>.
Hi,
an additional question: in the case of non static pages (not only CGIs,
also SSI, php or mod_perl, mod_layout parsed pages), can I ensure, that
the last-modification http header is send with the mtime of the static
part/page?
regards
Harald
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Harald Falkenberg Deutsches Elektronensynchrotron (DESY)
Notkestr. 85, 22603 Hamburg, Germany
Phone: +49-40 8998-3753 Fax.: +49-40 8994-3753
E-Mail: harald.falkenberg@desy.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Harald Falkenberg <ha...@desy.de>.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> > using apache 1.3.27 and as search engine Verity 5.0.3
> >
> > The apache sents the http header last-modified, but the search engine
> > cant't use it or is just ignoring it.
>
> > Form the Verity support I got the following information:
> >
> > The search engine trys to analyze the following date information when
> > given in the given order:
> >
> > 1. analyzing the date meta tag
> > 2. analyzing the last-modification date from the http header
> > 3. just using the current index date/time as doc date
> >
> > We don't set the date meta tag. Therefor the engine should use
> > step 2. But it doesn't although last-modification is presented by the
> > apache server. All I got as information is, that the format for the date
> > meta tag should have the formatat I already metnioned "YYYY-MM-DD".
>
> I agree, from this it looks like it is a Verity problem. It is possible
> that the YYYY-MM-DD format is what they are looking for in a meta tag, but
> it is certainly not what they should be looking for in HTTP headers. I
> think you need to follow-up with Verity support.
>
> Joshua.
>
Thank you for clarifying the situation!
regards
Harald
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> using apache 1.3.27 and as search engine Verity 5.0.3
>
> The apache sents the http header last-modified, but the search engine
> cant't use it or is just ignoring it.
> Form the Verity support I got the following information:
>
> The search engine trys to analyze the following date information when
> given in the given order:
>
> 1. analyzing the date meta tag
> 2. analyzing the last-modification date from the http header
> 3. just using the current index date/time as doc date
>
> We don't set the date meta tag. Therefor the engine should use
> step 2. But it doesn't although last-modification is presented by the
> apache server. All I got as information is, that the format for the date
> meta tag should have the formatat I already metnioned "YYYY-MM-DD".
I agree, from this it looks like it is a Verity problem. It is possible
that the YYYY-MM-DD format is what they are looking for in a meta tag, but
it is certainly not what they should be looking for in HTTP headers. I
think you need to follow-up with Verity support.
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Harald Falkenberg <ha...@desy.de>.
ok, I thought it is general topic. But here are the details:
using apache 1.3.27 and as search engine Verity 5.0.3
The apache sents the http header last-modified, but the search engine
cant't use it or is just ignoring it. So all indexed docs get the time
stamp from the date they were indexed, not their last-modified date.
Therefor sorting the results by date doesn't make sense in that situation.
Form the Verity support I got the following information:
The search engine trys to analyze the following date information when
given in the given order:
1. analyzing the date meta tag
2. analyzing the last-modification date from the http header
3. just using the current index date/time as doc date
We don't set the date meta tag. Therefor the engine should use
step 2. But it doesn't although last-modification is presented by the
apache server. All I got as information is, that the format for the date
meta tag should have the formatat I already metnioned "YYYY-MM-DD".
Due to tha last info, I was looking if I had to change something in the
apache configuration. But I think, the problem is only located on the
search engine side.
Please let me know your opinion!
Regards
Harald
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> > sorry for bothering you, but when I go through your docs you mentioned,
> > you are trying to tell me, the problem is based on the search engine side.
> > Is that correct?
>
> No bother, and no offense intended, but more likely the problem is you
> don't understand what you are looking for. Any reasonable software will
> understand the HTTP date format that Apache uses. That other format that
> you specify must be for some other purpose. But since you give us no
> details about where that format comes from, what its purpose is, or what
> search engine software you are talking about, it is pretty hard to help.
>
> Joshua.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> sorry for bothering you, but when I go through your docs you mentioned,
> you are trying to tell me, the problem is based on the search engine side.
> Is that correct?
No bother, and no offense intended, but more likely the problem is you
don't understand what you are looking for. Any reasonable software will
understand the HTTP date format that Apache uses. That other format that
you specify must be for some other purpose. But since you give us no
details about where that format comes from, what its purpose is, or what
search engine software you are talking about, it is pretty hard to help.
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Harald Falkenberg <ha...@desy.de>.
Hi,
sorry for bothering you, but when I go through your docs you mentioned,
you are trying to tell me, the problem is based on the search engine side.
Is that correct?
regards
Harald
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> > when I look for my last-modification dates from the apache server I see
> > the following as sample:
> >
> > Last-Modified: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:53:41 GMT
> >
> > In the W3C HTTP/HTML spec, which are used by the search engines I read
> > that the meta data format is like this
> >
> > yyyy-mm-ddThh:mi
>
> Specific references please; there is no W3C HTTP/HTML spec. There is an
> HTTP/1.1 RFC 2616 spec that is relevant to our discussion, and what it
> says can be found here:
> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html#sec3.3
> and
> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.29
>
> Joshua.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: [users@httpd] q: last-modified http header
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Harald Falkenberg wrote:
> when I look for my last-modification dates from the apache server I see
> the following as sample:
>
> Last-Modified: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:53:41 GMT
>
> In the W3C HTTP/HTML spec, which are used by the search engines I read
> that the meta data format is like this
>
> yyyy-mm-ddThh:mi
Specific references please; there is no W3C HTTP/HTML spec. There is an
HTTP/1.1 RFC 2616 spec that is relevant to our discussion, and what it
says can be found here:
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html#sec3.3
and
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.29
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org