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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> on 2007/05/28 00:54:30 UTC
Sending proposal to board: how to?
The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
sending the resolution to the board.
It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
found (board@ is not public).
It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
the board available?
In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
etc). Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
project is.
Martijn
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 6/14/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/30/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'll see that it gets added then.
> ping?
Pong [1]!
I thought it best to not commit the changes *yet* but wait for some
feedback as the guide has been thoroughly revised. Please give
feedback: I might have removed important stuff.
Martijn
[1] http://people.apache.org/~dashorst/incubator/guides/graduation.html
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/30/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'll see that it gets added then.
ping?
- robert
Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
I'll see that it gets added then.
Martijn
On 5/30/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Nice graphics, tying in several of the key items and time lines. I
> like it.
>
> Craig
>
> On May 28, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
>
> > I've created a schedule for graduation:
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/dashorst/517816086/
> >
> > Is this accurate, and can it be used in the graduation guide? Comments
> > are welcome!
> >
> > Martijn
> >
> > --
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>
> Craig Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Nice graphics, tying in several of the key items and time lines. I
like it.
Craig
On May 28, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> I've created a schedule for graduation:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dashorst/517816086/
>
> Is this accurate, and can it be used in the graduation guide? Comments
> are welcome!
>
> Martijn
>
> --
> Join the wicket community at irc.freenode.net: ##wicket
> Wicket 1.2.6 contains a very important fix. Download Wicket now!
> http://wicketframework.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/28/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 5/28/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've created a schedule for graduation:
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/dashorst/517816086/
> >
> > Is this accurate, and can it be used in the graduation guide? Comments
> > are welcome!
>
> Super! I love it.
+1
- robert
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 5/28/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've created a schedule for graduation:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dashorst/517816086/
>
> Is this accurate, and can it be used in the graduation guide? Comments
> are welcome!
Super! I love it.
Yoav
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
I've created a schedule for graduation:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dashorst/517816086/
Is this accurate, and can it be used in the graduation guide? Comments
are welcome!
Martijn
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/28/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi Martijn,
>
> Having read all the posts on this proposal, I have to say I like the
> idea of documenting a few things:
i've just committed a rough first pass (you'll need to svn up)
i have no plans to rework ATM so feel free to jump in and improve
> 1. Having a pro-forma email message that prospective PMC chairs can
> edit, just to make sure all the information is in them;
+1
leo's example included
> 2. Suggesting that the prospective PMC chair keep the board meeting
> schedule in mind (subject to change but well-documented);
+1
this is in but not as prominent as it should be
> 3. Having the recommended to: this; cc: that; subject: the other
> process in the graduation guide.
+1
this is in but not altogether happy with phrasing
- robert
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 5/28/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/28/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> > 2. Suggesting that the prospective PMC chair keep the board meeting
> > schedule in mind (subject to change but well-documented);
>
> What is a good time to send it? Too early: it might get missed, too
> late: will likely piss off people, or counts as too early :)
>
> From what I hear, any thing scheduled for the board meeting should be
> there the sunday before at most. So the sunday before that should be a
> good time to send it?
Sure - that'd be June 10th and that sounds right.
There's a slim possibility there will be a board meeting right after
the members' meeting next week to do the official hand-over to the new
Board (which we've done in some cases - but not all the time, IIRC) -
nevertheless, the current schedule calls for a meeting on June 20th.
Note though that the new Board will be free to choose a different
schedule for its meetings... -- justin
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 5/28/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> 2. Suggesting that the prospective PMC chair keep the board meeting
> schedule in mind (subject to change but well-documented);
What is a good time to send it? Too early: it might get missed, too
late: will likely piss off people, or counts as too early :)
>From what I hear, any thing scheduled for the board meeting should be
there the sunday before at most. So the sunday before that should be a
good time to send it?
> Of course, if you're really ready to graduate, you should already
> know all of this...;-)
Of course and that is why I propose to remove all guides, and let each
podling write a new set of guides. If they get it right, then they are
ready to graduate and become a new incubator... erhm... :)
Martijn
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Martijn,
Having read all the posts on this proposal, I have to say I like the
idea of documenting a few things:
1. Having a pro-forma email message that prospective PMC chairs can
edit, just to make sure all the information is in them;
2. Suggesting that the prospective PMC chair keep the board meeting
schedule in mind (subject to change but well-documented);
3. Having the recommended to: this; cc: that; subject: the other
process in the graduation guide.
Of course, if you're really ready to graduate, you should already
know all of this...;-)
Craig
On May 27, 2007, at 3:54 PM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
> sending the resolution to the board.
>
> It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
> board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
> found (board@ is not public).
>
> It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
> to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
> typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
>
> However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
> available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
> graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
> the board available?
>
> In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
> I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
> that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
> etc). Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
> imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
> project is.
>
> Martijn
>
> --
> Join the wicket community at irc.freenode.net: ##wicket
> Wicket 1.2.6 contains a very important fix. Download Wicket now!
> http://wicketframework.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Niall Pemberton wrote:
> On 5/27/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
>> sending the resolution to the board.
>>
>> It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
>> board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
>> found (board@ is not public).
>>
>> It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
>> to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
>> typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
>>
>> However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
>> available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
>> graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
>> the board available?
>>
>> In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
>> I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
>> that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
>> etc). Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
>> imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
>> project is.
>
> I think you just need to send the resolution with a note attached
> indicating that the IPMC has voted for Wicket to graduate (with link
> to the relevant vote thread) and a request to include it for
> consideration at the next board meeting. Probably a good idea to cc
> this list - so that people here know that you've sent it - then if it
> gets stuck in moderation or it for some reason doesn't get put on the
> agenda someone can chase it up for you.
It is generally not advised to cross-post between private and public
lists - board list participants might find themselves inadvertently
posting private comments to a public list, or they may find their
comments posted for them by someone else who replies.
You could cc it to, say, the wicket-private list. That is a private list
that you are subscribed to, which means at least _some_ people will be
able to confirm that the message has been received on board@.
Regards, Upayavira
Regards, Upayavira
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 5/27/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
> sending the resolution to the board.
>
> It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
> board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
> found (board@ is not public).
>
> It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
> to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
> typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
>
> However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
> available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
> graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
> the board available?
>
> In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
> I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
> that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
> etc). Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
> imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
> project is.
I think you just need to send the resolution with a note attached
indicating that the IPMC has voted for Wicket to graduate (with link
to the relevant vote thread) and a request to include it for
consideration at the next board meeting. Probably a good idea to cc
this list - so that people here know that you've sent it - then if it
gets stuck in moderation or it for some reason doesn't get put on the
agenda someone can chase it up for you.
Niall
> Martijn
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Please check the board minutes: last i can see is for ActiveMQ
http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2007/board_minutes_2007_01_17.txt
thanks,
dims
On 5/27/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
> sending the resolution to the board.
>
> It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
> board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
> found (board@ is not public).
>
> It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
> to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
> typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
>
> However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
> available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
> graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
> the board available?
>
> In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
> I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
> that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
> etc). Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
> imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
> project is.
>
> Martijn
>
> --
> Join the wicket community at irc.freenode.net: ##wicket
> Wicket 1.2.6 contains a very important fix. Download Wicket now!
> http://wicketframework.org
>
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>
--
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/28/07, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> > The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
> > sending the resolution to the board.
i've added some more content to the graduation guide (but you'll need
to wait for the sync or take a look at the copy in svn) based on the
comments in this thread. bit rough but hopefully people will dive in
with improvements (either submit a patch using JIRA or commit the
patch if you have karma).
- robert
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Re: Sending proposal to board: how to?
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On May 28, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> The graduation guide is a bit vague and incomplete on one point:
> sending the resolution to the board.
>
> It is mentioned in the process description to send a message to the
> board (to board@), but there are of course no example messages to be
> found (board@ is not public).
>
> It would be nice to add the board@ list from the process description
> to the graduation guide (which I'll do soon), and perhaps mention a
> typical message that can be an inspiration for other Podlings.
>
> However, for proposing graduation to the IPMC a lot of templates are
> available, as anyone can search the general@ list for [vote]
> graduation. Are such templates, or guidelines for communicating with
> the board available?
* Just send 'em email if you think its needed, in many ways its just
another mailing list; just do your bit to keep traffic low :-)
* it's a private list, regular ASF rules for those apply (no CC to
non-private list, treat responses you get appropriately
confidential)
* whatever you do, don't send email on behalf of a group if you're
not actually representing that group. Get consensus first.
* The board expects PMC chairs to relay the majority of the traffic
between it and the projects.
* this TLP proposal thingie is an exception, I guess the expectancy
is pretty much that the proposed PMC chair sends the e-mail
--
From: <you _at_ apache dot org>
To: <board _at_ apache dot org>
CC: <<project>-private _at_ incubator dot apache dot org>
Subject: proposed resolution: establish <project> TLP
Dear Apache Board,
<Project> is ready for graduation out of the incubator. So, please
consider the draft resolution below at your next meeting.
<thank you, best regards, personal note if you wish, etc etc>
<your name>
--
References:
Home: <project home page>
Vote by project: <link to vote thread on project list>
Vote by incubator: <link to vote thread on general list>
Resolution draft:
<<resolution goes here, 72 (?) characters wide,
indent with 4 (?) spaces>>
--
<your e-mail sig, if you have one>
> In its bare essentials I could just send the resolution to board@, but
> I think that gives the board a bit too much to dig through (what is
> that podling?, did the IPMC vote, are all status check marks checked?,
> etc).
Well, in some ways, if the board@ doesn't know about your podling by
the time you're ready for TLP then you didn't submit your status
reports which is a reason why you should not graduate.
> Of course these would be covered by the IPMC, however I can
> imagine that a member of the board at least wants to check what the
> project is.
Yep! Usually they will in quite a bit of detail; it is not uncommon
for the board to decide to tweak a resolution ever so slightly (or
sometimes even a little more, like edits to the PMC roster or project
description) during their meeting, and it is also not uncommon for
them to ask a question or two that you've already answered a 100
times :-)
hope this helps,
- Leo
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