You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by jude <fl...@gmail.com> on 2015/12/01 01:32:51 UTC
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
*joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
<https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an AS3.5
or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about F-JS
we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up this
> week.
>
> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I should
> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so that's
> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to imply
> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same place,
> but I figured I'd check.
>
> - Josh
> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
> parties
> > from our official site.
> >
> > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under any
> > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
> >
> > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks correctly
> > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
> adding
> > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
> needed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by Michael Schmalle <te...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I guess that's an unfortunate naming similarity to Adobe's abandoned
> "ActionScript Next". I hadn't even made the association. Regardless, I'm
> not concerned with a little temporary disappointment. Doing something like
> replacing a name associated with darker times with something fresh and
> hopeful is exactly what I intend to do with this project of mine.
> ActionScript deserves to evolve with the web, and maybe that even means new
> language features, if they're compelling enough.
>
Not to many people could add features to the compiler but there are people
that could. I am speaking on language features. The thing is, I already
spent 100's of hours developing FalconJX from the ground up and for me to
put that much time into more compiler development, there would have to be
money, more specifically, an ecosystem that is starting to create things in
a new way.
I can say this, I would not spend more time on this project just to make
Flash developers more money before they left for HTML5/JS. So for me, I
really am on Josh's wave where I like AS's language features. I would also
love to add features to AS's compiler but for that to happen, things need
to evolve and move forward, cause like I said, I am done making Flash
developers money(components etc).
I think what Josh meant by NextGen Actionscript hit the nail on the head
with my sentiment.
Mike
>
> - Josh
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
> > *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
> > joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
> > <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
> >
> > Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
> > website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
> > ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
> > then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
> > you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
> > getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an
> AS3.5
> > or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
> > disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
> >
> > To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
> > when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about
> F-JS
> > we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
> > planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
> > this
> > > week.
> > >
> > > Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
> > > footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
> > should
> > > probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
> > that's
> > > going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
> > imply
> > > that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
> > place,
> > > but I figured I'd check.
> > >
> > > - Josh
> > > On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
> > > parties
> > > > from our official site.
> > > >
> > > > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
> > any
> > > > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
> > > >
> > > > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks
> correctly
> > > > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
> > > adding
> > > > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
> > > needed.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Justin
> > > >
> > > > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
> > >
> >
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, I guess that's an unfortunate naming similarity to Adobe's abandoned
"ActionScript Next". I hadn't even made the association. Regardless, I'm
not concerned with a little temporary disappointment. Doing something like
replacing a name associated with darker times with something fresh and
hopeful is exactly what I intend to do with this project of mine.
ActionScript deserves to evolve with the web, and maybe that even means new
language features, if they're compelling enough.
- Josh
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
> *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
> joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
> <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
>
> Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
> website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
> ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
> then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
> you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
> getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an AS3.5
> or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
> disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
>
> To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
> when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about F-JS
> we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
> planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
> this
> > week.
> >
> > Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
> > footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
> should
> > probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
> that's
> > going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
> imply
> > that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
> place,
> > but I figured I'd check.
> >
> > - Josh
> > On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
> > parties
> > > from our official site.
> > >
> > > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
> any
> > > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
> > >
> > > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks correctly
> > > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
> > adding
> > > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
> > needed.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
> >
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Thanks I need to communicate more. I've been updating the blog around twice
a month now but haven't posted updates here.
I was pretty burnt out at the time I had donated the code. I didn't want to
look at it again and I didn't for months. I went back to school because I
didn't have enough debt in my life. Actually, to study graphic design. That
was educational but the school I was going to required me to take 3 non
graphic design classes which left only 1 actual design class to receive
financial aid. Yay for community college! But a long time friend at my
school passed (alcohol poisoning). TMI but I couldn't go into the school
and focus. So that and lack of financial aid (in the US they do not cover
what you need 1/2 to 3/4ths) and I had to drop out. Sorry for over sharing
but not sharing at all has caused more problems than I care to mention.
I read about the Visual Studio and that's amazing news. IIUC Visual Studio
is not yet on the Mac but they have a new editor called Visual Studio Code,
https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/code-vs.aspx. It's a good
start. I still think the way they are doing it is patch upon patch... but
then again there hasn't been an alternative that that crowd has accepted
yet. I have many thoughts on that I'll save for another time.
I read up on Eclipse plugin integration, bought a book on it and made an
example plugin but that was before I even started Radiate and design view
still existed. It was really tough to try and do layouts with it in Java
after using MXML. It isn't as big a deal now as it was back then. If you
really want to integrate it with Eclipse or local Flex projects email me or
post on the list and I'll do what I can to help. There are some huge
advantages to it integrating with real Flex projects. I've been putting
some placeholders in the code for that use case. There are other priorities
I feel are more important that I have to do first. If that's really
something you want to see happen you'll want to work with updated code. And
if someone really wants to help I'm putting parts in my github you can
modify and I can pull them in. I would love to work on a larger scale but I
don't know how to do that, what people would expect for helping, what
people expect to be open or close sourced, if it should be free etc. It's
takes a lot from my mental real estate.
BTW If people want to help they can try the latest desktop version and give
feedback, https://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=799. When you start it it
will check for updates so you can keep up to date that way.
Harbs, there was the spoon project but I don't think they ever raised any
money for development. This is something as a community we really need to
figure out...
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:13 AM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Jude,
>
> Nice work on Radiate so far. I really hope the commercial version takes
> off!
>
> I read through your rant, all the way to the end. I probably should have
> posted this earlier, but I spent a long time trying to fit the donated
> Radiate code into an Eclipse plugin. I have done similar flash content
> based Eclipse plugins in the past and thought I could do something similar
> with Radiate - i.e. try to make Radiate work with Flash Builder.
>
> Unfortunately, I dint (dont) have a lot of time to tinker with these
> projects and kind of dropped that experiment a while ago. I should have at
> least posted a note about my effort on the dev list. At least to show that
> there is still interest in your cool design view. My bad :-(
>
> On your side, periodic updates (which you have started doing of late) on
> the dev mailing list would be useful. Something along the lines of "I've
> added these new features, can someone please try it out and post
> feedback". In my experience, sending these emails out are very useful to
> have the code tested and also to get the attention of potential
> contributors.
>
> I am still hoping to pick up my Radiate-as-Eclipse-plugin experiment soon.
> I am also considering the recently open sourced Visual Studio as a
> potential target to plug in Radiate [1]
>
> I really hope others join you in your effort to build a great visual design
> tool for Flex and FlexJS.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
> [1]
> https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:35 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when
> it's
> > more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to
> it.
> >
> > In Radiate I have Import and Export transpilers. For MXML it's been easy
> to
> > import and export (sortof). For HTML export it's been hell and the bain
> of
> > my existence. For Android XML markup it's as easy as MXML.
> >
> > With FlexJS it shouldn't be too much harder to generate FlexJS compatible
> > MXML than regular MXML export. FYI Radiate exports markup layouts in the
> > language of your choice from the design view. Each component on the stage
> > has an associated component descriptor object that has properties,
> styles,
> > events and a reference to the instance. Using this information you can
> > export to whatever language you like.
> >
> > Relatively recently, I switched to working on a desktop "IDE" rather than
> > the web "design view". mainly because no one wants to work in a browser.
> > Well maybe but the numbers weren't there and people would ask for
> features
> > that weren't possible in a browser. So I created a desktop version in a
> few
> > days, yay for AIR cross-platform, and just for kicks enabled AceEditor
> > <
> >
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/controls/AceEditor.as
> > >
> > which I tried to integrate in the past but wouldn't work with Flash. The
> > new version worked and now it has a real editor <http://ace.c9.io/> in
> it.
> >
> > So since R8 is running on the desktop and it has a real editor it's
> > possible to talk to the compilers and get error reporting and warnings. I
> > don't know how to do code completion but AceEditor has a code completion
> > API. As you type you can pass JSON objects of possible autocomplete
> words.
> > I know how to do the examples but I don't know how to do it with FlexJS,
> > Flex, etc. CSS and HTML have code completion out of the box.
> >
> > Anyway, whatever Josh, Alex, Harbs, et all do not do I hope to do. I plan
> > to add some support for FlexJS code generation (and possibly compiler
> > integration). Create new projects, edit them and compile them. Again, I
> > don't know how to do code completion with AS3, Flex, FlexJS, etc.
> >
> > BTW I am open sourcing parts of it as I go such as the importers and
> > exporters, new components and other classes. So if you don't like how I
> > export the MXML or HTML you can go to FlexCapacitor,
> > https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor, make some changes and
> then
> > submit a pull request.
> >
> > Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
> > complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
> > project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
> > than a year ago to apache. There was a huge amount of overhead and legal
> > bureaucracy to accomplish it. I thought people would want it but there
> was
> > resistance. "Was it good enough? Do we want it? Does it fit at apache" -
> to
> > me I was almost felt like saying saying, "f*@0 you guys" I made this for
> > you as a gift and you don't know if you want it?
> > I worked on the project in my free time for years and couldn't believe
> > what I was hearing. It was not a good month. A few people supported me
> > donating it and I thought the Flex community might care about having a
> > design view again at some point in the future. Since it was donated I
> > didn't hear anyone working on it or any interest in taking it farther.
> Not
> > on this list. In my personal email a few people were happy to see
> something
> > but didn't have the time or resources to help. I wasn't too upset because
> > to be honest parts of it were shit but those parts had to be written
> > quickly so the other parts could work. I could always go back and fix it
> > and one startup developer I talked to gave me the advice that the first
> gen
> > code is always throw away. In my mind it was "refactor". His startup was
> > doing well
> >
> > So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
> > appreciated or supported. ... I could go on but my whole point is that
> open
> > source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered
> half
> > the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
> > <
> >
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/
> > >
> > to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
> > developer. WTF guys?
> >
> > That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
> > point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial
> radiate
> > so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
> > community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
> > Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
> >
> > I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
> > donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular,
> typscript,
> > all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
> > asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
> > is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
> > company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
> > this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it
> with a
> > vengeance.
> >
> > Sorry rant over. If legal gets in the way F* them too. Justin, keep
> > watching our back but if all the legal is prevent releases or progress
> FUCK
> > IT. Just get shit out. ok rant really over now.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
> > > *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
> > > joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
> > > <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
> > >
> > > Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the
> new
> > > website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
> > > ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started
> and
> > > then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing
> what
> > > you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
> > > getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an
> > AS3.5
> > > or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
> > > disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
> > >
> > > To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same
> way
> > > when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about
> > F-JS
> > > we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
> > > planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
> > >> this
> > >> week.
> > >>
> > >> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from
> the
> > >> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
> > should
> > >> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
> > that's
> > >> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
> > imply
> > >> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
> > place,
> > >> but I figured I'd check.
> > >>
> > >> - Josh
> > >> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
> > >> parties
> > >> > from our official site.
> > >> >
> > >> > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
> > any
> > >> > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
> > >> >
> > >> > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks
> > correctly
> > >> > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
> > >> adding
> > >> > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
> > >> needed.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> > Justin
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
Jude,
Nice work on Radiate so far. I really hope the commercial version takes
off!
I read through your rant, all the way to the end. I probably should have
posted this earlier, but I spent a long time trying to fit the donated
Radiate code into an Eclipse plugin. I have done similar flash content
based Eclipse plugins in the past and thought I could do something similar
with Radiate - i.e. try to make Radiate work with Flash Builder.
Unfortunately, I dint (dont) have a lot of time to tinker with these
projects and kind of dropped that experiment a while ago. I should have at
least posted a note about my effort on the dev list. At least to show that
there is still interest in your cool design view. My bad :-(
On your side, periodic updates (which you have started doing of late) on
the dev mailing list would be useful. Something along the lines of "I've
added these new features, can someone please try it out and post
feedback". In my experience, sending these emails out are very useful to
have the code tested and also to get the attention of potential
contributors.
I am still hoping to pick up my Radiate-as-Eclipse-plugin experiment soon.
I am also considering the recently open sourced Visual Studio as a
potential target to plug in Radiate [1]
I really hope others join you in your effort to build a great visual design
tool for Flex and FlexJS.
Thanks,
Om
[1]
https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:35 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when it's
> more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to it.
>
> In Radiate I have Import and Export transpilers. For MXML it's been easy to
> import and export (sortof). For HTML export it's been hell and the bain of
> my existence. For Android XML markup it's as easy as MXML.
>
> With FlexJS it shouldn't be too much harder to generate FlexJS compatible
> MXML than regular MXML export. FYI Radiate exports markup layouts in the
> language of your choice from the design view. Each component on the stage
> has an associated component descriptor object that has properties, styles,
> events and a reference to the instance. Using this information you can
> export to whatever language you like.
>
> Relatively recently, I switched to working on a desktop "IDE" rather than
> the web "design view". mainly because no one wants to work in a browser.
> Well maybe but the numbers weren't there and people would ask for features
> that weren't possible in a browser. So I created a desktop version in a few
> days, yay for AIR cross-platform, and just for kicks enabled AceEditor
> <
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/controls/AceEditor.as
> >
> which I tried to integrate in the past but wouldn't work with Flash. The
> new version worked and now it has a real editor <http://ace.c9.io/> in it.
>
> So since R8 is running on the desktop and it has a real editor it's
> possible to talk to the compilers and get error reporting and warnings. I
> don't know how to do code completion but AceEditor has a code completion
> API. As you type you can pass JSON objects of possible autocomplete words.
> I know how to do the examples but I don't know how to do it with FlexJS,
> Flex, etc. CSS and HTML have code completion out of the box.
>
> Anyway, whatever Josh, Alex, Harbs, et all do not do I hope to do. I plan
> to add some support for FlexJS code generation (and possibly compiler
> integration). Create new projects, edit them and compile them. Again, I
> don't know how to do code completion with AS3, Flex, FlexJS, etc.
>
> BTW I am open sourcing parts of it as I go such as the importers and
> exporters, new components and other classes. So if you don't like how I
> export the MXML or HTML you can go to FlexCapacitor,
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor, make some changes and then
> submit a pull request.
>
> Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
> complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
> project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
> than a year ago to apache. There was a huge amount of overhead and legal
> bureaucracy to accomplish it. I thought people would want it but there was
> resistance. "Was it good enough? Do we want it? Does it fit at apache" - to
> me I was almost felt like saying saying, "f*@0 you guys" I made this for
> you as a gift and you don't know if you want it?
> I worked on the project in my free time for years and couldn't believe
> what I was hearing. It was not a good month. A few people supported me
> donating it and I thought the Flex community might care about having a
> design view again at some point in the future. Since it was donated I
> didn't hear anyone working on it or any interest in taking it farther. Not
> on this list. In my personal email a few people were happy to see something
> but didn't have the time or resources to help. I wasn't too upset because
> to be honest parts of it were shit but those parts had to be written
> quickly so the other parts could work. I could always go back and fix it
> and one startup developer I talked to gave me the advice that the first gen
> code is always throw away. In my mind it was "refactor". His startup was
> doing well
>
> So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
> appreciated or supported. ... I could go on but my whole point is that open
> source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered half
> the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
> <
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/
> >
> to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
> developer. WTF guys?
>
> That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
> point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial radiate
> so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
> community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
> Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
>
> I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
> donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular, typscript,
> all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
> asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
> is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
> company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
> this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it with a
> vengeance.
>
> Sorry rant over. If legal gets in the way F* them too. Justin, keep
> watching our back but if all the legal is prevent releases or progress FUCK
> IT. Just get shit out. ok rant really over now.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
> > *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
> > joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
> > <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
> >
> > Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
> > website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
> > ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
> > then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
> > you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
> > getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an
> AS3.5
> > or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
> > disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
> >
> > To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
> > when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about
> F-JS
> > we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
> > planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
> >> this
> >> week.
> >>
> >> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
> >> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
> should
> >> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
> that's
> >> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
> imply
> >> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
> place,
> >> but I figured I'd check.
> >>
> >> - Josh
> >> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
> >> parties
> >> > from our official site.
> >> >
> >> > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
> any
> >> > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
> >> >
> >> > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks
> correctly
> >> > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
> >> adding
> >> > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
> >> needed.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Justin
> >> >
> >> > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
> >>
> >
> >
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jude,
I also read your whole rant and you have valid points there. I don’t think there was opposition when you donated Radii8. Although sometimes the enthusiasm in donations can get drowned out by the noise of the annoying technical details.
I was actually surprised when you went completely silent on the subject after the donation. I was expecting “movement and noise” coming from you. I think most of us see value in the design view, but everyone is busy, and if things progress, it’s usually the person most passionate about a specific feature or tool who pushes it forward. That’s just the way it is with open source projects. I hope your commercial version is successful.
I also wish there was more funding to help push Flex forward quicker, but unless a specific company has a vested interest in doing so, it’s not gonna happen.
Harbs
On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:41 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This post bounced for me because of the image attachments. So I'm not sure
> if the original message made it through. But here's the email from
> yesterday:
>
> Oh and I meant to post these images (below). Most of you won't care because
> you can write MXML UI faster than in a GUI but for the designers in us and
> your designer friends that ask you to build them a website for the fiftieth
> time please send them to this project.
>
> And the main thing I hear from hard core developers about the FB designer
> was it sucked. Well, yeah, we all knew it needed work and wasn't getting
> any attention or improvements. But a lot of our software sucks too if we
> don't work at it. If we were able to dedicate time and energy to it it
> would be a different story. So rant over. Today was a bad day so I'm
> venting I don't care.
>
> Here are the screenshots:
> http://imgur.com/2y3PVW3
> http://i.imgur.com/booD25Z.png
> http://imgur.com/CivASZL
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:35 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when it's
>> more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to it.
>>
>> In Radiate I have Import and Export transpilers. For MXML it's been easy
>> to import and export (sortof). For HTML export it's been hell and the bain
>> of my existence. For Android XML markup it's as easy as MXML.
>>
>> With FlexJS it shouldn't be too much harder to generate FlexJS compatible
>> MXML than regular MXML export. FYI Radiate exports markup layouts in the
>> language of your choice from the design view. Each component on the stage
>> has an associated component descriptor object that has properties, styles,
>> events and a reference to the instance. Using this information you can
>> export to whatever language you like.
>>
>> Relatively recently, I switched to working on a desktop "IDE" rather than
>> the web "design view". mainly because no one wants to work in a browser.
>> Well maybe but the numbers weren't there and people would ask for features
>> that weren't possible in a browser. So I created a desktop version in a few
>> days, yay for AIR cross-platform, and just for kicks enabled AceEditor
>> <https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/controls/AceEditor.as>
>> which I tried to integrate in the past but wouldn't work with Flash. The
>> new version worked and now it has a real editor <http://ace.c9.io/> in
>> it.
>>
>> So since R8 is running on the desktop and it has a real editor it's
>> possible to talk to the compilers and get error reporting and warnings. I
>> don't know how to do code completion but AceEditor has a code completion
>> API. As you type you can pass JSON objects of possible autocomplete words.
>> I know how to do the examples but I don't know how to do it with FlexJS,
>> Flex, etc. CSS and HTML have code completion out of the box.
>>
>> Anyway, whatever Josh, Alex, Harbs, et all do not do I hope to do. I plan
>> to add some support for FlexJS code generation (and possibly compiler
>> integration). Create new projects, edit them and compile them. Again, I
>> don't know how to do code completion with AS3, Flex, FlexJS, etc.
>>
>> BTW I am open sourcing parts of it as I go such as the importers and
>> exporters, new components and other classes. So if you don't like how I
>> export the MXML or HTML you can go to FlexCapacitor,
>> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor, make some changes and then
>> submit a pull request.
>>
>> Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
>> complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
>> project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
>> than a year ago to apache. There was a huge amount of overhead and legal
>> bureaucracy to accomplish it. I thought people would want it but there was
>> resistance. "Was it good enough? Do we want it? Does it fit at apache" - to
>> me I was almost felt like saying saying, "f*@0 you guys" I made this for
>> you as a gift and you don't know if you want it?
>> I worked on the project in my free time for years and couldn't believe
>> what I was hearing. It was not a good month. A few people supported me
>> donating it and I thought the Flex community might care about having a
>> design view again at some point in the future. Since it was donated I
>> didn't hear anyone working on it or any interest in taking it farther. Not
>> on this list. In my personal email a few people were happy to see something
>> but didn't have the time or resources to help. I wasn't too upset because
>> to be honest parts of it were shit but those parts had to be written
>> quickly so the other parts could work. I could always go back and fix it
>> and one startup developer I talked to gave me the advice that the first gen
>> code is always throw away. In my mind it was "refactor". His startup was
>> doing well
>>
>> So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
>> appreciated or supported. ... I could go on but my whole point is that open
>> source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered half
>> the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
>> <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/>
>> to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
>> developer. WTF guys?
>>
>> That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
>> point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial radiate
>> so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
>> community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
>> Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
>>
>> I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
>> donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular, typscript,
>> all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
>> asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
>> is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
>> company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
>> this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it with a
>> vengeance.
>>
>> Sorry rant over. If legal gets in the way F* them too. Justin, keep
>> watching our back but if all the legal is prevent releases or progress FUCK
>> IT. Just get shit out. ok rant really over now.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
>>> *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
>>> joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
>>> <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
>>>
>>> Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
>>> website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
>>> ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
>>> then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
>>> you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
>>> getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an AS3.5
>>> or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
>>> disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
>>>
>>> To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
>>> when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about F-JS
>>> we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
>>> planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
>>>> this
>>>> week.
>>>>
>>>> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
>>>> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
>>>> should
>>>> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
>>>> that's
>>>> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
>>>> imply
>>>> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
>>>> place,
>>>> but I figured I'd check.
>>>>
>>>> - Josh
>>>> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
>>>> parties
>>>>> from our official site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
>>>> any
>>>>> obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks correctly
>>>>> [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
>>>> adding
>>>>> a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
This post bounced for me because of the image attachments. So I'm not sure
if the original message made it through. But here's the email from
yesterday:
Oh and I meant to post these images (below). Most of you won't care because
you can write MXML UI faster than in a GUI but for the designers in us and
your designer friends that ask you to build them a website for the fiftieth
time please send them to this project.
And the main thing I hear from hard core developers about the FB designer
was it sucked. Well, yeah, we all knew it needed work and wasn't getting
any attention or improvements. But a lot of our software sucks too if we
don't work at it. If we were able to dedicate time and energy to it it
would be a different story. So rant over. Today was a bad day so I'm
venting I don't care.
Here are the screenshots:
http://imgur.com/2y3PVW3
http://i.imgur.com/booD25Z.png
http://imgur.com/CivASZL
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:35 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when it's
> more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to it.
>
> In Radiate I have Import and Export transpilers. For MXML it's been easy
> to import and export (sortof). For HTML export it's been hell and the bain
> of my existence. For Android XML markup it's as easy as MXML.
>
> With FlexJS it shouldn't be too much harder to generate FlexJS compatible
> MXML than regular MXML export. FYI Radiate exports markup layouts in the
> language of your choice from the design view. Each component on the stage
> has an associated component descriptor object that has properties, styles,
> events and a reference to the instance. Using this information you can
> export to whatever language you like.
>
> Relatively recently, I switched to working on a desktop "IDE" rather than
> the web "design view". mainly because no one wants to work in a browser.
> Well maybe but the numbers weren't there and people would ask for features
> that weren't possible in a browser. So I created a desktop version in a few
> days, yay for AIR cross-platform, and just for kicks enabled AceEditor
> <https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/controls/AceEditor.as>
> which I tried to integrate in the past but wouldn't work with Flash. The
> new version worked and now it has a real editor <http://ace.c9.io/> in
> it.
>
> So since R8 is running on the desktop and it has a real editor it's
> possible to talk to the compilers and get error reporting and warnings. I
> don't know how to do code completion but AceEditor has a code completion
> API. As you type you can pass JSON objects of possible autocomplete words.
> I know how to do the examples but I don't know how to do it with FlexJS,
> Flex, etc. CSS and HTML have code completion out of the box.
>
> Anyway, whatever Josh, Alex, Harbs, et all do not do I hope to do. I plan
> to add some support for FlexJS code generation (and possibly compiler
> integration). Create new projects, edit them and compile them. Again, I
> don't know how to do code completion with AS3, Flex, FlexJS, etc.
>
> BTW I am open sourcing parts of it as I go such as the importers and
> exporters, new components and other classes. So if you don't like how I
> export the MXML or HTML you can go to FlexCapacitor,
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor, make some changes and then
> submit a pull request.
>
> Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
> complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
> project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
> than a year ago to apache. There was a huge amount of overhead and legal
> bureaucracy to accomplish it. I thought people would want it but there was
> resistance. "Was it good enough? Do we want it? Does it fit at apache" - to
> me I was almost felt like saying saying, "f*@0 you guys" I made this for
> you as a gift and you don't know if you want it?
> I worked on the project in my free time for years and couldn't believe
> what I was hearing. It was not a good month. A few people supported me
> donating it and I thought the Flex community might care about having a
> design view again at some point in the future. Since it was donated I
> didn't hear anyone working on it or any interest in taking it farther. Not
> on this list. In my personal email a few people were happy to see something
> but didn't have the time or resources to help. I wasn't too upset because
> to be honest parts of it were shit but those parts had to be written
> quickly so the other parts could work. I could always go back and fix it
> and one startup developer I talked to gave me the advice that the first gen
> code is always throw away. In my mind it was "refactor". His startup was
> doing well
>
> So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
> appreciated or supported. ... I could go on but my whole point is that open
> source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered half
> the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
> <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/>
> to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
> developer. WTF guys?
>
> That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
> point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial radiate
> so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
> community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
> Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
>
> I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
> donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular, typscript,
> all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
> asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
> is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
> company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
> this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it with a
> vengeance.
>
> Sorry rant over. If legal gets in the way F* them too. Justin, keep
> watching our back but if all the legal is prevent releases or progress FUCK
> IT. Just get shit out. ok rant really over now.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
>> *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
>> joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
>> <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
>>
>> Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
>> website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
>> ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
>> then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
>> you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
>> getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an AS3.5
>> or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
>> disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
>>
>> To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
>> when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about F-JS
>> we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
>> planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
>>> this
>>> week.
>>>
>>> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
>>> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I
>>> should
>>> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so
>>> that's
>>> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to
>>> imply
>>> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same
>>> place,
>>> but I figured I'd check.
>>>
>>> - Josh
>>> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
>>> parties
>>> > from our official site.
>>> >
>>> > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under
>>> any
>>> > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
>>> >
>>> > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks correctly
>>> > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
>>> adding
>>> > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
>>> needed.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Justin
>>> >
>>> > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
Hi Jude,
Good stuff in here. Thanks for bringing it up. Comments inline...
On 12/1/15, 12:35 AM, "jude" <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when it's
>more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to it.
Can you provide more detail on what features you are waiting for? Can you
help work on those features?
>
>Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
>complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
>project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
>than a year ago to apache.
>
>So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
>appreciated or supported.
The limiting factor for Apache Flex is time. The committers, like
yourself, only have limited time. Even for me, who is paid to work on
this project, I have so many things to work on, Radiate is not in the top
10 on my list. That doesn't mean the donation isn't appreciated. But the
fact is, I think a lot of us expected you to keep working on it in the
Apache repos. IOW, I didn't see it as a gift, but something you were
bringing to the party and not just leave it.
> ... I could go on but my whole point is that open
>source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered
>half
>the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
><http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chasten
>ed-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/>
>to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
>developer. WTF guys?
>
>That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
>point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial radiate
>so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
>community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
>Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
And that's fine too. Lots of commercial products are selling value-add to
open source technology. That value-add can just be support, it doesn't
have to be new features.
>
>I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
>donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular, typscript,
>all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
>asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
>is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
>company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
>this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it with
>a
>vengeance.
There are corporate-driven open source models and then there is Apache.
Apache takes great pains to make it clear that no one corporation has
undue influence over the future of a project. And all of us have
witnessed what happens when a corporation that does have influence changes
its mind. So to some degree, potential customers should feel safer
placing a bet on an Apache project.
However, it appears that in the Apache model, until you get someone who
can build a business around the project, money is scarce. I want to make
sure everybody reading this understands that Adobe is highly unlikely to
be the company that will build a business around Apache Flex. Adobe has
totally focused on creatives and has pretty much decided that it isn't
good at supporting developers. Adobe has probably spent over a million
dollars on getting Flex up and running at Apache and is not expecting a
dime of it back. That seems quite generous to me. It isn't going to kick
in more to help with marketing. We've got to find other ways to get the
word out.
To me, that way is by word-of-mouth, testimonials from successful
customers. And so I spend my time listening to what folks have to say on
this list and trying to get folks to be successful. I'm not always the
right person to do certain tasks like Maven and AMF and have to keep
asking "can you live without it, at least for now?" because I see plenty
of other things that need to be done so we can start a whole new showcase
around FlexJS apps and get folks talking about how much faster and higher
quality it was to use FlexJS.
And then, the gamble for those of you who aren't paid by your employer to
work on Flex is: do I continue to contribute for free or find some other
way to get funded so I can continue to contribute so I can better the
chances that FlexJS will be successful and I will be known as one of the
pioneers of this technology and be able to ask a higher hourly rate and/or
get more contracts? I think the big money in FlexJS will be in
contracting/consulting and not in selling software.
We are doing what I call "The Big Wait". Many of these emails talk about
waiting for one more feature, one less bug, one customer to offer up a
testimonial, one company to spend more money before we contribute more.
In the Adobe Flex days, you had to wait for Adobe to decide what and when
to release. In the Apache model, it requires a different mindset: the
community has to make it all happen.
In the FlexJS 0.5.0 release, we tried to make it easier for folks to
contribute, but more can certainly be done and we will make progress on
making it even easier. But if you can find renewed motivation from these
discussions to contribute please do. Every little bit counts. Think of
those community house-building efforts. Even hammering one nail makes a
difference if enough of you can.
Thanks,
-Alex
Re: FlexJS Brand Positioning
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
BTW I do plan to help on Flex JS when the time is right. That is when it's
more stable, when it has a few more design and development features to it.
In Radiate I have Import and Export transpilers. For MXML it's been easy to
import and export (sortof). For HTML export it's been hell and the bain of
my existence. For Android XML markup it's as easy as MXML.
With FlexJS it shouldn't be too much harder to generate FlexJS compatible
MXML than regular MXML export. FYI Radiate exports markup layouts in the
language of your choice from the design view. Each component on the stage
has an associated component descriptor object that has properties, styles,
events and a reference to the instance. Using this information you can
export to whatever language you like.
Relatively recently, I switched to working on a desktop "IDE" rather than
the web "design view". mainly because no one wants to work in a browser.
Well maybe but the numbers weren't there and people would ask for features
that weren't possible in a browser. So I created a desktop version in a few
days, yay for AIR cross-platform, and just for kicks enabled AceEditor
<https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/controls/AceEditor.as>
which I tried to integrate in the past but wouldn't work with Flash. The
new version worked and now it has a real editor <http://ace.c9.io/> in it.
So since R8 is running on the desktop and it has a real editor it's
possible to talk to the compilers and get error reporting and warnings. I
don't know how to do code completion but AceEditor has a code completion
API. As you type you can pass JSON objects of possible autocomplete words.
I know how to do the examples but I don't know how to do it with FlexJS,
Flex, etc. CSS and HTML have code completion out of the box.
Anyway, whatever Josh, Alex, Harbs, et all do not do I hope to do. I plan
to add some support for FlexJS code generation (and possibly compiler
integration). Create new projects, edit them and compile them. Again, I
don't know how to do code completion with AS3, Flex, FlexJS, etc.
BTW I am open sourcing parts of it as I go such as the importers and
exporters, new components and other classes. So if you don't like how I
export the MXML or HTML you can go to FlexCapacitor,
https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor, make some changes and then
submit a pull request.
Do not read this next part unless you want to hear me ranting and
complaining. But because it's unclear to some people I'm mentioning this
project I'm going to clarify some things. I donated the radiate code more
than a year ago to apache. There was a huge amount of overhead and legal
bureaucracy to accomplish it. I thought people would want it but there was
resistance. "Was it good enough? Do we want it? Does it fit at apache" - to
me I was almost felt like saying saying, "f*@0 you guys" I made this for
you as a gift and you don't know if you want it?
I worked on the project in my free time for years and couldn't believe
what I was hearing. It was not a good month. A few people supported me
donating it and I thought the Flex community might care about having a
design view again at some point in the future. Since it was donated I
didn't hear anyone working on it or any interest in taking it farther. Not
on this list. In my personal email a few people were happy to see something
but didn't have the time or resources to help. I wasn't too upset because
to be honest parts of it were shit but those parts had to be written
quickly so the other parts could work. I could always go back and fix it
and one startup developer I talked to gave me the advice that the first gen
code is always throw away. In my mind it was "refactor". His startup was
doing well
So again I was surprised an open source project was not fully embraced,
appreciated or supported. ... I could go on but my whole point is that open
source has a bunch of lies surrounding it. Look at OpenSSL. It powered half
the webs ecommerce and do you know how much money was donated
<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/>
to it? It was something like $2000 per year and was maintained by one
developer. WTF guys?
That project generated billions of dollars and no one supported it. My
point is, after that first point, is that I'm trying to commercial radiate
so that I can keep working on it. I'm giving some parts back to the OS
community as I can but some part of me feels like I have to explain this.
Like I'm not part of the OS crowd because I'm trying to make it survive.
I'm happy for this FlexJS and NextGenActionScript but seriously, we suck
donkey balls at raising money and supporting our work. Angular, typscript,
all those other ones are getting resources, popularity in the biased
asshole media. The company that shall not be named was horrible and still
is horrible at marketing. I made a list and they are the number one worst
company for marketing. So my point is we have to change or get better at
this. If the media attacks it rip these assholes apart. IE defend it with a
vengeance.
Sorry rant over. If legal gets in the way F* them too. Justin, keep
watching our back but if all the legal is prevent releases or progress FUCK
IT. Just get shit out. ok rant really over now.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw this on Twitter, ""Introducing NextGen ActionScript" via @
> *joshtynjala* <https://twitter.com/joshtynjala> => http://
> joshblog.net/2015/introducing-nextgen-actionscript/ …
> <https://t.co/AnMp1Vw7p7>"
>
> Not to be nitpicky but I think it's misleading. I'm stoked about the new
> website and tutorials. In fact everything, but when I read, "NextGen
> ActionScript" I thought of the NextGen AS3 project that Adobe started and
> then abandoned. Knowing that it wasn't the Adobe project but knowing what
> you've been working on I immediately did believe AS3 was going to be
> getting new features. I didn't want to get my hopes up that it was an AS3.5
> or AS4 type of project but after reading the blog post I was still
> disappointed even with all of the good news in it.
>
> To me the title is misleading and other AS3 devs may respond the same way
> when they read it. While we are trying to announce the good news about F-JS
> we might want to make clearer the distinction. BTW If these things are
> planned and or I've misunderstood let me know.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reminder. I'll get the trademark attribution cleaned up
>> this
>> week.
>>
>> Would it be acceptable to create a specific legal page, linked from the
>> footer, that displays the Apache Flex trademark attribution text? I should
>> probably acknowledge some Adobe trademarks too, just to be safe, so that's
>> going to be a lot to add to the footer. The page you linked seems to imply
>> that's allowed, as long as all trademark attribution is in the same place,
>> but I figured I'd check.
>>
>> - Josh
>> On Nov 29, 2015 2:10 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > We have to be a little careful here to not be seen to endorse 3rd
>> parties
>> > from our official site.
>> >
>> > Currently that code is "Copyright 2015 Bowler Hat LLC” and not under any
>> > obvious license, it would be nice if that was made clearer.
>> >
>> > Josh it would also be good if you attribute Apache trademarks correctly
>> > [1] and if you could and link back to the Apache Flex web site. Just
>> adding
>> > a TM to the first mention and a line in the footer is all that is
>> needed.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Justin
>> >
>> > 1. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
>>
>
>