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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by leerho <le...@gmail.com> on 2021/03/17 22:10:59 UTC
JPMS Projects?
Folks,
Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated their
code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
Thanks,
Lee.
Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 6:08 AM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
> etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
> internals using JVM args.)..
FWIW, http://felix.apache.org/ which implements an OSGi framework has
had to make some changes to coexist with JPMS, maybe that can help for
your case, though their use case is quite specific as OSGi implements
its own module system.
Useful links:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20FELIX%20AND%20text%20~%20jpms
https://blog.osgi.org/2016/08/osgi-with-java-modules-all-way-down.html
https://blog.osgi.org/2019/09/osgi-connect-revisited.html
-Bertrand
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 6:22 AM Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a maxim of "Community over code"....
FWIW, the Maturity Model at [1] emphasizes being honest about the
quality of a project's modules (QU10).
As mentioned there, "various levels of quality and maturity for
various modules are natural and acceptable as long as they are clearly
communicated". It is quite common for projects to have different
levels of modules like core, contrib, experimental etc. and I think
what's important is to expose those expected quality levels.
-Bertrand
[1] https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for your clarifications.
Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same principles.
I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can recommend to you!
As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the Java Module System (JPMS).
Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
Dan
[1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great. In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens to
be Apache licensed :)
Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
internals using JVM args.)
This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.
Thank you,
Lee.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> - A TLP?
> - An incubating project?
> - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
JPMS is flat out a PITA. I’ve tried to get Log4j to fully support it and am continuing to work on that. Our current 2.x releases tolerate it primarily by declaring their names in the Manifest but that really isn’t full support.
If I were starting out on a brand new project JPMS might be a lot easier but migrating already existing stuff with lots of dependencies is extremely hard. To be honest, this isn’t completely the fault of JPMS. The fact that Oracle removed classes in Java 9 and forced you to switch in that release played havoc with the Log4j build. Trying to get a single deliverable support both Java 8 and 9+ created a mess. If Oracle had had at least 1 release where both were supported it would have made things a LOT easier.
Ralph
> On Mar 18, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> If it helps, JPMS has still a lot of blockers IMHO, as soon as you quit
> unamed module land you break most frameworks out there.
> If your lib is a standalone functional set of utilities it can not be
> bothering but if you use any reflection or meta programming I would
> recommend to stick to unamed module by default until you are required to go
> with jpms.
> Only feature JPMS has, as of today, is being able to build jvm images and
> graalvm kind of killed this features by making it irrelevant (I skip the
> licensing issues it can create ;)).
>
> My 2 cts,
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> <https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance>
>
>
> Le jeu. 18 mars 2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber <sh...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
>> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
>> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>>
>> Regards,
>> Serge...
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
>>> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
>>> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are
>> fairly
>>> similar.
>>>
>>> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
>>>> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
>>>>
>>>> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with
>> Apache
>>>> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding
>> code
>>>> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
>>>>
>>>> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or
>> redirect
>>>> you to other resources.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your clarifications.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts
>> [1] a
>>>> maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
>>>> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
>>> given
>>>> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude
>> other
>>>> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
>>>> principles.
>>>>
>>>> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
>>>> recommend to you!
>>>>
>>>> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
>>> separate
>>>> those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
>>>> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I
>> have
>>>> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
>>>> anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the
>>> Java
>>>> Module System (JPMS).
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>>>>
>>>> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Daniel,
>>>> Thank you for your reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
>>>> process and
>>>> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
>>>> great. In
>>>> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
>>>> happens to
>>>> be Apache licensed :)
>>>>
>>>> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
>>>> Java Modules
>>>> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
>>> for
>>>> Unsafe,
>>>> etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
>>>> accessing Java
>>>> internals using JVM args.)
>>>>
>>>> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
>>> that
>>>> have
>>>> already gone through that process would be helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Lee.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
>>> widdis@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>>>> - A TLP?
>>>>> - An incubating project?
>>>>> - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
>>> license?
>>>>>
>>>>> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases,
>> just
>>>> add some
>>>>> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>> Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
>>>> migrated
>>>>> their
>>>>>> code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Lee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dan Widdis
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
If it helps, JPMS has still a lot of blockers IMHO, as soon as you quit
unamed module land you break most frameworks out there.
If your lib is a standalone functional set of utilities it can not be
bothering but if you use any reflection or meta programming I would
recommend to stick to unamed module by default until you are required to go
with jpms.
Only feature JPMS has, as of today, is being able to build jvm images and
graalvm kind of killed this features by making it irrelevant (I skip the
licensing issues it can create ;)).
My 2 cts,
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
<https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance>
Le jeu. 18 mars 2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber <sh...@apache.org> a écrit :
> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>
> Regards,
> Serge...
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> > you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> > That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are
> fairly
> > similar.
> >
> > We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> > > apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> > >
> > > I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with
> Apache
> > > and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding
> code
> > > quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> > >
> > > I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or
> redirect
> > > you to other resources.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your clarifications.
> > >
> > > Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts
> [1] a
> > > maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
> > > inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> > given
> > > the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude
> other
> > > established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> > > principles.
> > >
> > > I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> > > recommend to you!
> > >
> > > As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> > separate
> > > those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> > > access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I
> have
> > > also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> > > anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the
> > Java
> > > Module System (JPMS).
> > >
> > > Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> > >
> > > On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Daniel,
> > > Thank you for your reply.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > >
> > >
> > > I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> > > process and
> > > an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> > > great. In
> > > this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
> > >
> > > I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> > > happens to
> > > be Apache licensed :)
> > >
> > > Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> > >
> > >
> > > I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> > > Java Modules
> > > leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> > for
> > > Unsafe,
> > > etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> > > accessing Java
> > > internals using JVM args.)
> > >
> > > This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> > that
> > > have
> > > already gone through that process would be helpful.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Lee.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> > widdis@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > > > - A TLP?
> > > > - An incubating project?
> > > > - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> > license?
> > > >
> > > > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases,
> just
> > > add some
> > > > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Folks,
> > > > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> > > migrated
> > > > their
> > > > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Lee.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dan Widdis
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
I did find one small library that shows some of the useful
possibilities of adding proper module info to something for 9+
runtimes (especially when using modules):
https://github.com/cryptography-cafe/curve25519-elisabeth
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 at 09:36, <fp...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Agree, and if you want to check some Apache projects related to OSGi you
> can take a look to:
>
> - Apache Karaf : https://karaf.apache.org
>
> - Apache Felix : https://felix.apache.org
>
> regards,
>
> François
> fpapon@apache.org
>
> Le 18/03/2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber a écrit :
> > I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> > than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
> >
> > Regards,
> > Serge...
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> >> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> >> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
> >> similar.
> >>
> >> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> >>> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> >>>
> >>> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> >>> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> >>> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> >>>
> >>> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> >>> you to other resources.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your clarifications.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a
> >>> maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
> >>> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> >> given
> >>> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> >>> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> >>> principles.
> >>>
> >>> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> >>> recommend to you!
> >>>
> >>> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> >> separate
> >>> those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> >>> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have
> >>> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> >>> anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the
> >> Java
> >>> Module System (JPMS).
> >>>
> >>> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> >>>
> >>> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Daniel,
> >>> Thank you for your reply.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> >>> process and
> >>> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> >>> great. In
> >>> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
> >>>
> >>> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> >>> happens to
> >>> be Apache licensed :)
> >>>
> >>> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> >>> Java Modules
> >>> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> >> for
> >>> Unsafe,
> >>> etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> >>> accessing Java
> >>> internals using JVM args.)
> >>>
> >>> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> >> that
> >>> have
> >>> already gone through that process would be helpful.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Lee.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> >> widdis@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >>> > - A TLP?
> >>> > - An incubating project?
> >>> > - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> >> license?
> >>> >
> >>> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> >>> add some
> >>> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Folks,
> >>> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> >>> migrated
> >>> > their
> >>> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Thanks,
> >>> > > Lee.
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Dan Widdis
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by fp...@apache.org.
Agree, and if you want to check some Apache projects related to OSGi you
can take a look to:
- Apache Karaf : https://karaf.apache.org
- Apache Felix : https://felix.apache.org
regards,
François
fpapon@apache.org
Le 18/03/2021 à 15:25, Serge Huber a écrit :
> I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
> than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
>
> Regards,
> Serge...
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
>> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
>> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
>> similar.
>>
>> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
>>> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
>>>
>>> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
>>> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
>>> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
>>>
>>> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
>>> you to other resources.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your clarifications.
>>>
>>> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a
>>> maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
>>> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
>> given
>>> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
>>> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
>>> principles.
>>>
>>> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
>>> recommend to you!
>>>
>>> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
>> separate
>>> those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
>>> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have
>>> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
>>> anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the
>> Java
>>> Module System (JPMS).
>>>
>>> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>>>
>>> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Daniel,
>>> Thank you for your reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>>
>>>
>>> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
>>> process and
>>> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
>>> great. In
>>> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
>>>
>>> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
>>> happens to
>>> be Apache licensed :)
>>>
>>> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
>>> Java Modules
>>> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
>> for
>>> Unsafe,
>>> etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
>>> accessing Java
>>> internals using JVM args.)
>>>
>>> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
>> that
>>> have
>>> already gone through that process would be helpful.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Lee.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
>> widdis@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>>> > - A TLP?
>>> > - An incubating project?
>>> > - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
>> license?
>>> >
>>> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
>>> add some
>>> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Folks,
>>> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
>>> migrated
>>> > their
>>> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
>>> > >
>>> > > Thanks,
>>> > > Lee.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dan Widdis
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Serge Huber <sh...@apache.org>.
I was also going to mention OSGi. It enforces better lifecycle management
than JPMS. If you can do it with OSGi you can certainly use it with JPMS
Regards,
Serge...
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:19 PM Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
> you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
> That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
> similar.
>
> We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> > apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
> >
> > I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> > and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> > quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
> >
> > I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> > you to other resources.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your clarifications.
> >
> > Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a
> > maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
> > inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point,
> given
> > the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> > established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> > principles.
> >
> > I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> > recommend to you!
> >
> > As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd
> separate
> > those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> > access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have
> > also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> > anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the
> Java
> > Module System (JPMS).
> >
> > Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
> >
> > On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel,
> > Thank you for your reply.
> >
> >
> > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> >
> >
> > I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> > process and
> > an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> > great. In
> > this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
> >
> > I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> > happens to
> > be Apache licensed :)
> >
> > Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >
> >
> > I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> > Java Modules
> > leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need
> for
> > Unsafe,
> > etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> > accessing Java
> > internals using JVM args.)
> >
> > This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects
> that
> > have
> > already gone through that process would be helpful.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Lee.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <
> widdis@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > > - A TLP?
> > > - An incubating project?
> > > - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache
> license?
> > >
> > > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> > add some
> > > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> > migrated
> > > their
> > > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Lee.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan Widdis
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Perhaps the various OSGi-related projects here might be similar to what
you’re looking for since those have enforced modularity for a long time.
That module system is more advanced than JPMS, but the concepts are fairly
similar.
We’ve also been looking into this for log4j 3.0, but that’s not out yet.
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:06 Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to
> apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
>
> I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache
> and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code
> quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
>
> I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect
> you to other resources.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your clarifications.
>
> Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a
> maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community
> inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given
> the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other
> established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same
> principles.
>
> I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can
> recommend to you!
>
> As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate
> those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code
> access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have
> also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen
> anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the Java
> Module System (JPMS).
>
> Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
>
> Dan
>
> [1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>
> On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Daniel,
> Thank you for your reply.
>
>
> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
>
>
> I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release
> process and
> an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be
> great. In
> this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
>
> I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just
> happens to
> be Apache licensed :)
>
> Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
>
> I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using
> Java Modules
> leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for
> Unsafe,
> etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and
> accessing Java
> internals using JVM args.)
>
> This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that
> have
> already gone through that process would be helpful.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lee.
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> > - A TLP?
> > - An incubating project?
> > - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
> >
> > There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just
> add some
> > files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Folks,
> > > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually
> migrated
> > their
> > > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lee.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Widdis
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by Daniel Widdis <wi...@gmail.com>.
After considering this email I wrote, I regret sending it and want to apologize if I have overstepped any bounds.
I am not a member of the IPMC or associated in any formal way with Apache and am certainly not in any position to make any judgments regarding code quality or your wise choice to begin your search with such projects.
I'll back out of this conversation now and let others answer or redirect you to other resources.
Dan
On 3/17/21, 10:21 PM, "Daniel Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your clarifications.
Regarding "Apache" = "Quality", I'd be careful. Apache asserts [1] a maxim of "Community over code". While certainly a broad community inevitably leads to better code, and Apache is a good starting point, given the specificity of your request I might start there but not exclude other established projects (not random code) which follow many of the same principles.
I do hope those on this list are aware of some projects they can recommend to you!
As for the technical specifications, I'd also recommend you'd separate those out as well. Some of your concerns seem to deal with native code access which seems a separate issue than modular design of code. I have also been looking around for good Panama/FMA examples and haven't seen anything non-trivial yet. But even those can be done with/without the Java Module System (JPMS).
Looking forward to any other replies with interest.
Dan
[1] - https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
On 3/17/21, 10:08 PM, "leerho" <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great. In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens to
be Apache licensed :)
Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
internals using JVM args.)
This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.
Thank you,
Lee.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> - A TLP?
> - An incubating project?
> - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>
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Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by leerho <le...@gmail.com>.
Daniel,
Thank you for your reply.
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
I would prefer to examine a project that has a formal release process and
an active community. So a TLP or incubating project would be great. In
this case I was equating "Apache" = "Quality" :)
I'm not so interested in random code on the Internet that just happens to
be Apache licensed :)
Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
I am seriously looking at *redesigning* our JDK8 Library using Java Modules
leveraging JDK16+/Panama/FMA and completely replacing the need for Unsafe,
etc. (Not just adapting our JDK8 code to run on JDK9+ and accessing Java
internals using JVM args.)
This is a major undertaking so being able to look at projects that have
already gone through that process would be helpful.
Thank you,
Lee.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:42 PM Daniel B. Widdis <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
> - A TLP?
> - An incubating project?
> - A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
>
> There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
> files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated
> their
> > code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lee.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>
Re: JPMS Projects?
Posted by "Daniel B. Widdis" <wi...@gmail.com>.
Can you clarify what you mean by an "Apache Java project"?
- A TLP?
- An incubating project?
- A project anywhere that is released under the Apache license?
There's actually no need to "migrate code" in many cases, just add some
files. Is there a particular use case you are interested in?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:11 PM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Folks,
> Is anyone aware of an Apache Java project that has actually migrated their
> code from Java 8 to the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)?
>
> Thanks,
> Lee.
>
--
Dan Widdis