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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2017/09/07 08:07:51 UTC
[VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Hi Incubator PMC.
We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
archive might not be donated.
This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the future.
This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
Here's my +1.
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Hi Craig,
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I do not intend to accept any more such overly ambiguous grants....
Ok, so you think this vote is not needed?
That's fine with me as long as we have a mechanism to avoid ambiguous
grants in the future.
As our secretary I think it's ok for you to ask for a review of any
incoming grants which might fall in that category - maybe 72 hours
like we do for votes, involving the podling mentors and possibly the
Incubator PMC - what do you think?
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
-1 for an overly broad restriction that needs a bit of discretion.
The situation that caused this issue to be raised is that a grant was made of a specific set of files contained in a .zip archive. That set of files contained no non-donated IP. The issue is that the grant had a list of excluded projects, and the wording of the grant was to exclude the list without limitation. This wording made the grant very ambiguous.
I do not intend to accept any more such overly ambiguous grants.
The reason to reject this particular vote is that the statement
> mentioning that some material contained in that
> archive might not be donated.
itself is not an absolute limitation either.
A grant of a specific git repository of a working project at a particular commit level is fine to contain a list of exclusions. The exclusions are to files that are not being donated, but are included in the project because other files that are being donated depend on the excluded files.
As long as it is clear from the wording of the grant which files are included and which files are excluded, the grant should be ok.
In any event, during IP Clearance the project is responsible for understanding the terms of the grant and for importing into the Apache repository and changing the license header only those files that are granted.
Craig
> On Sep 7, 2017, at 1:07 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Incubator PMC.
>
> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
> archive might not be donated.
>
> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>
> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the future.
>
> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Here's my +1.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
Craig L Russell
Secretary, Apache Software Foundation
clr@apache.org http://db.apache.org/jdo
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 6:07 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> I don't have a vote here, but I"m now confused about what problem is being
> solved....
As Craig indicates, the goal is to reject ambigous grants, which
require interpretation to figure out what's actually being granted.
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or
exclusions
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I don't have a vote here, but I"m now confused about what problem is being
solved. Is it, as Stian says, that an entity is being lazy and did not
attempt to review the contents of the grant before donating? I thought
the goal is to just keep folks from bothering us with additional language
on these grants.
I would think it is still required of the receiving project to review the
contents assuming the donor made a good faith attempt to review the
contents as well. But as I think Stian is saying (and I'm saying since I
experienced it), mistakes are going to happen and things that shouldn't
have been donated will be accidentally listed in exhibit A. Do our legal
advisors think that some conditional or exclusion for accidents is built
into the grant wording already or should some language about that be added
to software-grant.txt ?
What is the protocol if, even after IP clearance/grant acceptance, that
something is found in the included files that shouldn't be in there? I
assume Apache takes the friendly approach of "Oops, that probably
shouldn't have been in there" and just deletes that file?
Thanks,
-Alex
On 9/7/17, 2:51 AM, "Stian Soiland-Reyes" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>+1
>
>
>However it should be OK (and perhaps even encouraged) for the archive
>to list in NOTICE or similar that some of the files are not legally
>owned by the donating entity, for instance other open source files
>that have been used – legally they can’t be part of the IP grant
>(unless the donating entity have gained shared copyright after further
>modifications - but their upstream license would still apply).
>
>
>This does not mean the donated archive has to be fully IP cleared
>before donation.. of course the opposite could be true – the grant
>donates some code, which the podling later chooses not to keep – for
>instance by discovering an LGPL-licensed file from outside.
>
>
>What is not OK is as you suggest, to include files which ARE owned by
>the donating entity, but which are somehow not included in the grant.
>
>
>On 7 September 2017 at 09:32, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>>
>> On Sep 7, 2017 10:11, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 (not binding, not part of IPMC)
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 07/09/2017 à 10:07, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi Incubator PMC.
>>>>
>>>> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
>>>> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
>>>> archive might not be donated.
>>>>
>>>> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
>>>> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
>>>> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
>>>> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
>>>> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>>>>
>>>> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the
>>>> future.
>>>>
>>>> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my +1.
>>>>
>>>> -Bertrand
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>--
>Stian Soiland-Reyes
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%
>2F0000-0001-9842-9718&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4ccc95b5bed04f674d6c08d4f5d61513%7
>Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636403747211522975&sdata=RAK%2
>FkockH7FRLShyGRSaXCQuTDyDEXgXUrjfsC9xS8w%3D&reserved=0
>
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
+1
However it should be OK (and perhaps even encouraged) for the archive
to list in NOTICE or similar that some of the files are not legally
owned by the donating entity, for instance other open source files
that have been used – legally they can’t be part of the IP grant
(unless the donating entity have gained shared copyright after further
modifications - but their upstream license would still apply).
This does not mean the donated archive has to be fully IP cleared
before donation.. of course the opposite could be true – the grant
donates some code, which the podling later chooses not to keep – for
instance by discovering an LGPL-licensed file from outside.
What is not OK is as you suggest, to include files which ARE owned by
the donating entity, but which are somehow not included in the grant.
On 7 September 2017 at 09:32, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2017 10:11, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 (not binding, not part of IPMC)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 07/09/2017 à 10:07, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi Incubator PMC.
>>>
>>> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
>>> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
>>> archive might not be donated.
>>>
>>> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
>>> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
>>> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
>>> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
>>> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>>>
>>> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> Here's my +1.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>
>>
--
Stian Soiland-Reyes
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or
exclusions
Posted by Sebastian <ss...@apache.org>.
+1
On 07.09.2017 10:32, Ted Dunning wrote:
> +1
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2017 10:11, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 (not binding, not part of IPMC)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 07/09/2017 à 10:07, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi Incubator PMC.
>>>
>>> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
>>> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
>>> archive might not be donated.
>>>
>>> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
>>> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
>>> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
>>> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
>>> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>>>
>>> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> Here's my +1.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Sep 7, 2017 10:11, "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
wrote:
> +1 (not binding, not part of IPMC)
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 07/09/2017 à 10:07, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
>
>> Hi Incubator PMC.
>>
>> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
>> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
>> archive might not be donated.
>>
>> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
>> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
>> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
>> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
>> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>>
>> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the
>> future.
>>
>> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> Here's my +1.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>
Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or
exclusions
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
+1 (not binding, not part of IPMC)
Jacques
Le 07/09/2017 à 10:07, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
> Hi Incubator PMC.
>
> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
> archive might not be donated.
>
> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>
> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the future.
>
> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Here's my +1.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:07 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Considering that the IPMC is not the one who accepts software grants, what
> is your goal here?...
Grants are received and accepted by the ASF's secretary, right? Or
what do you have in mind?
Anyway, the Incubator PMC can make a recommendation to whoever accepts
the grants about this. If they don't accept that
recommendation...we'll cross that bridge then.
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or exclusions
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
Bertrand,
Considering that the IPMC is not the one who accepts software grants, what
is your goal here?
John
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 4:08 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi Incubator PMC.
>
> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
> archive might not be donated.
>
> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>
> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the
> future.
>
> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Here's my +1.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Do not accept software grants with conditionals or
exclusions
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
+1 (binding)
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 07.09.2017 um 10:07 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Incubator PMC.
>
> We recently received a software grant pointing to an archive file for
> the code donation, but mentioning that some material contained in that
> archive might not be donated.
>
> This was discussed on the PMC private list and it looks like we have
> consensus for rejecting such grants in the future: software donations
> should only include the files that are donated, without conditionals
> or exclusions. Anything else puts an unnecessary burden on our
> podlings and mentors, for sorting out what's donated or not.
>
> This is a vote to formalize the decision to reject such grants in the future.
>
> This majority vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Here's my +1.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
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