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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> on 2018/06/06 13:13:31 UTC

How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Hello,

I'm trying to see how one could contribute to NetBeans without a GitHub account.

To see what's going on one needs to also subscribe to notifications@netbeans.apache.org where messages about new pull requests and comments are posted.

PROBLEM 1: There's no way to comment on a PR from the mailing list. In the email I see this note:

> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> To respond to the message, please log on GitHub and use the
> URL above to go to the specific comment.

So, we need some robot or something to act as a proxy (we had something like this for Slack which was commenting on the #netbeans IRC channel) and add our comments to GitHub too.

PROBLEM 2: How do I see the PR patch? The notification gives me the PR URL but I don't see the repository/branched used so I cannot jump into the terminal to do a `git checkout`.

Both of these problems belong to Apache Git Services, I'll contact them too.

Suggestion: It would be good to use https://reviews.apache.org/r/ too, not GitHub PR exclusively.

Allowing inclusive ways of contributing is going to be important long-term.

GitHub should just be one venue where we engage with the community and contributors but we should have other workflows in place, preferably that depend on Apache infrastructure only.

--emi

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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Thilina Ranathunga <r....@gmail.com>.

+1

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 7:17 PM Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com> wrote:
>
> > On 06/06/2018 08:13 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > > GitHub should just be one venue where we engage with the community
> > > and contributors but we should have other workflows in place,
> > > preferably that depend on Apache infrastructure only.
> > +1
> >
> > --
> > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> >
> >
>

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>.

+1

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com> wrote:

> On 06/06/2018 08:13 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > GitHub should just be one venue where we engage with the community
> > and contributors but we should have other workflows in place,
> > preferably that depend on Apache infrastructure only.
> +1
>
> --
> Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
>
>

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com>.

On 06/06/2018 08:13 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> GitHub should just be one venue where we engage with the community
> and contributors but we should have other workflows in place,
> preferably that depend on Apache infrastructure only.
+1

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.

Hi,

I have nothing particular against Review Board, but a few comments:
-I am a little bit concerned about having too many venues for reviewing
patches. It requires "reviewers" to monitor/work with several tools (it is
hard to imagine how having multiple venues could speed up reviews, which is
one of the problems we currently have, I think).
-on GitHub we currently build the PRs using Travis CI, it would be
unfortunate to loose that. Seems Review Board supports Travis CI as well -
if we would start to use Review Board, can we please have that enabled?

(On a convenience note, in review board, a committer needs to download the
patch, commit it locally and then push, right? Feels less convenient than
the GH's green button; and potentially more error prone as well (although I
could see an argument that doing it manually is safer).)

(As a second note, frankly, I wonder if we really need all patches to go
through a review...)

Jan


On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:

> One person's 'knee jerk reaction' is another person's contingency plan...
> When did we decide to marry GitHub?
>
> I created the PR (or "review") by creating an account on
> reviews.apache.org and just using the tool (there's a 'New Review
> Request' action).
>
> More documentation about the tool can be found at
> https://www.reviewboard.org , makes no sense to compare workflows or some
> such.
>
> reviews.apache.org needs a separate account to be created and I don't
> believe it necessarily has to be an Apache ID (but I haven't tested).
>
> Anyhow, I'd say that more than half of the existing GitHub PRs are made by
> existing committers which could easily switch to reviews.apache.org .
>
> Note that I'm not saying we should drop GitHub entirely, but demote it to
> a plain Git mirror and a secondary venue for PRs.
>
> I don't think GitHub has that many things going for it actually:
>
> * how many new developers added PRs in the last months? With all the
> developers having accounts there, GitHub is not really providing an
> ever-increasing flow of new people.
>
> * how many developers are creating a (or re-activating their dormant)
> GitHub account just to contribute to NetBeans? If they are neutral about
> this and just care about the contribution, another site for PRs would
> accomplish the same. Some might even *prefer* to use an .apache.org site
> for this.
>
> * how many PRs will we lose if we keep GitHub the only venue for PRs?
> Sure, we can say that emailing a patch file is just the same but look at
> this: https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/diff/1#index_header It's easier
> on the eye than a plain patch and doesn't seem like such a loss compared to
> GitHub, no?
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 13 June 2018 7:00 PM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think I'm missing something, but how did you create the PR that this
> review site picked up? - Whats the workflow of this from someone just
> coming to NetBeans?  and how specifically does it differ to the workflow of
> someone willing to use GitHub?
> >
> > Also whats the point?  A developer is more than likely to have a GitHub
> account as opposed to an Apache ID - Which I think you only get when you
> become a committer on an Apache Project no?
> >
> > To me this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to the news that Microsoft is
> buying GitHub which I still don't see the problem with...
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 16:53, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> > >
> > > This thread is about everything else except the git repo which can be
> trivially cloned from Apache or any other mirror:
> > >
> > > * how does one start a new PR without a GitHub account?
> > >
> > > * how does one comment and +1 an existing PR?
> > >
> > > One first step towards fixing this is if we start using
> https://reviews.apache.org/groups/netbeans/ which is provided by Apache
> Software Foundation itself.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On 13 June 2018 5:49 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Gj
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Glenn Holmer cenbe@kolabnow.com
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > On 06/13/2018 08:34 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Review Board for code reviews is working for NetBeans!
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > I've just created the first review:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > I invite everyone to give this a try and join the 'netbeans'
> group on
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > reviews.apache.org
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Excellent.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > On 7 June 2018 11:59 AM, Emilian Bold
> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate
> in
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved
> without
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > GitHub. AFAIK anyone can subscribe to this mailing list,
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > checkout from the Git repo on Apache:
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > and send patches to this mailing list.
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > What's the correct way to clone that?
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > cenbe@greyhand:/mnt/common/temp > git clone
> https://gitbox.apache.org/
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git ./incubator-netbeans
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Cloning into './incubator-netbeans'...
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > fatal: repository 'https://gitbox.apache.org/
> repos/asf?p=incubator-
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > netbeans.git/' not found
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.

PS: Note that infra did have to configure the git repository. So... it's doing *something* with git, not just looking at the patch.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 June 2018 11:31 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:

> Yes, it seems to be patch-based. You first upload the patch (pre- or post-commit) then you can set the branch this patch is for.
> 
> This is actually something I want to test: does Review Board show the proper diff based on the branch you tell it or does it just show the stuff in the patch? In theory what's in the patch should be enough, but I'm curious if the tool is smart enough to look at git branches.
> 
> It's 'refreshing' that Apache is just like any corporation. Single-sign-on for the random mix of internal tools is truly a herculean task that few accomplish.
> 
> --emi
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> 
> On 13 June 2018 8:46 PM, Matthias Bläsing mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I just looked at review board and the first thing I'm asking myself:
> > 
> > How do I start a review based on a git branch? "New review request"
> > 
> > requires me to upload a diff, that is not what I want.
> > 
> > This leads me to the question: As a committer I could push a branch
> > 
> > into the netbeans apache repository, but an outside committer would
> > 
> > need to be able to ask the system to pull from a remote source.
> > 
> > Can someone help? Oh and I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
> > 
> > apache... At that point my happiness dropped.
> > 
> > Greetings
> > 
> > Matthias
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



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Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, 19:52 Glenn Holmer, <ce...@kolabnow.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 06/13/2018 01:04 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> > Interesting to notice (via GStreamer list) that GNOME and FreeDesktop are
> > moving to providing their own GitLab instances.  I wonder if Apache will
> > take that route at some point?
>
>
> https://about.gitlab.com/2018/06/05/gitlab-ultimate-and-gold-free-for-education-and-open-source/
>
> "GitLab Ultimate is self-hosted, whereas GitLab Gold is our SaaS
> offering hosted on GitLab.com."
>
> Of course, the question remains: what if some people want to use GitLab,
> some GitHub, and some the command line? And what if something happens to
> GitLab or GitHub?
>

Note the key difference that GNOME (and Debian from your link) are self
hosting the open source version of GitLab.

Best wishes,

Neil

> --
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com.INVALID>.

On 06/13/2018 01:04 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> Interesting to notice (via GStreamer list) that GNOME and FreeDesktop are
> moving to providing their own GitLab instances.  I wonder if Apache will
> take that route at some point?

https://about.gitlab.com/2018/06/05/gitlab-ultimate-and-gold-free-for-education-and-open-source/

"GitLab Ultimate is self-hosted, whereas GitLab Gold is our SaaS
offering hosted on GitLab.com."

Of course, the question remains: what if some people want to use GitLab,
some GitHub, and some the command line? And what if something happens to
GitLab or GitHub? Those are not easy questions.

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.

Yes, it seems to be patch-based. You first upload the patch (pre- or post-commit) then you can set the branch this patch is for.

This is actually something I want to test: does Review Board show the proper diff based on the branch you tell it or does it just show the stuff in the patch? In theory what's in the patch should be enough, but I'm curious if the tool is smart enough to look at git branches.

It's 'refreshing' that Apache is just like any corporation. Single-sign-on for the random mix of internal tools is truly a herculean task that few accomplish.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 June 2018 8:46 PM, Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I just looked at review board and the first thing I'm asking myself:
> 
> How do I start a review based on a git branch? "New review request"
> 
> requires me to upload a diff, that is not what I want.
> 
> This leads me to the question: As a committer I could push a branch
> 
> into the netbeans apache repository, but an outside committer would
> 
> need to be able to ask the system to pull from a remote source.
> 
> Can someone help? Oh and I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
> 
> apache... At that point my happiness dropped.
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



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Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:46 Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:

> Oh and I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
> apache... At that point my happiness dropped.
>
>
 Ha ha ..  I know what you mean! :-)

Interesting to notice (via GStreamer list) that GNOME and FreeDesktop are
moving to providing their own GitLab instances.  I wonder if Apache will
take that route at some point?

Neil
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:46 PM Matthias Bläsing
<mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> ...I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
> apache... At that point my happiness dropped...

The ASF infra team is working on having everything driven by LDAP, but
that takes some time. Last I heard of it, Jira and Confluence should
be done later this year.

-Bertrand

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reviews.apache.org - git integration?

Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>.

Hello,

I just looked at review board and the first thing I'm asking myself:

How do I start a review based on a git branch? "New review request"
requires me to upload a diff, that is not what I want.

This leads me to the question: As a committer I could push a branch
into the netbeans apache repository, but an outside committer would
need to be able to ask the system to pull from a remote source.

Can someone help? Oh and I'm now up to three accounts I need just for
apache... At that point my happiness dropped.

Greetings

Matthias

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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.

> -I am a little bit concerned about having too many venues for reviewing patches. It requires
> "reviewers" to monitor/work with several tools (it is hard to imagine how having multiple
> venues could speed up reviews, which is one of the problems we currently have, I think).

Depends if we think of it as community outreach. We could use much more Apache infra and http://reviews.apache.org/ while also encouraging community participation by accepting patches via GitHub PRs too. By the same logic we could expand even more and have folks that follow other venues (GitLab?). Maybe even have a process of funneling patches from GitHub into Review Board? Many possibilities.

> -on GitHub we currently build the PRs using Travis CI, it would be unfortunate to loose that. Seems Review Board supports Travis CI as well - if we would start to use Review Board, can we please have that enabled?

Infra just got today Review Board to work. Yes, I also want build bots and other nice goodies.

> (On a convenience note, in review board, a committer needs to download the patch, commit it locally and then push, right? Feels less convenient than the GH's green button; and potentially more error prone as well (although I could see an argument that doing it manually is safer).)

Yes, this is a bit more manual. Maybe some bot could create temporary branches we could just clone? I don't know if something to help with this exists or not.

> (As a second note, frankly, I wonder if we really need all patches to go through a review...)

I also believe we truly don't. The Apache Commit-Then-Review methodology https://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#CommitThenReview makes sense for many contributions.

Only the more complex things should truly need a review.

> I brought up the concern early on about how much of the GitHub workflow, is
> usefully mirrored in Apache. And ironically, one of the reasons I
> questioned whether all conversations should happen in the issue queue at
> Apache (vs on PRs), which you didn't like, was for this reason.

I think we were talking about JIRA then?

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 June 2018 8:40 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 17:58 Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > One person's 'knee jerk reaction' is another person's contingency plan...
> > 
> > When did we decide to marry GitHub?
> 
> I brought up the concern early on about how much of the GitHub workflow, is
> 
> usefully mirrored in Apache. And ironically, one of the reasons I
> 
> questioned whether all conversations should happen in the issue queue at
> 
> Apache (vs on PRs), which you didn't like, was for this reason.
> 
> I agree with John that I don't see a problem with Microsoft buying GitHub,
> 
> and you that a contingency plan / being clear about what we're using that
> 
> isn't usefully mirrored is a good idea - just no more or less than it was
> 
> before! ;-)
> 
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:01 Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > This works, it seems:
> > 
> > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-netbeans.git
> > 
> > (The URL I mentioned before is one used for viewing in a browser, not sure
> > 
> > why the URLs are different for cloning and viewing.)
> 
> That's the same on the GH repo too though isn't it?!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Neil C Smith
> 
> Artist & Technologist
> 
> www.neilcsmith.net
> 
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org


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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:48 Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The content is (or should be) the same, of course. But the question was
> > "how to work without GitHub", so I was providing an URL where to find the
> > NB repository without touching GH.
> >
> >
> I only meant that GitHub has different URL's for cloning and viewing too.
>

Yes. I guess what I meant more generally is that I am not sure why the URLs
are different (or tend to be different) for git. In mercurial, the URL for
viewing works for cloning as well, which feels much more user-friendly to
me.

Jan

>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:48 Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The content is (or should be) the same, of course. But the question was
> "how to work without GitHub", so I was providing an URL where to find the
> NB repository without touching GH.
>
>
I only meant that GitHub has different URL's for cloning and viewing too.

Neil
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 17:58 Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> wrote:
>
> > One person's 'knee jerk reaction' is another person's contingency plan...
> > When did we decide to marry GitHub?
> >
>
> I brought up the concern early on about how much of the GitHub workflow, is
> *usefully* mirrored in Apache.  And ironically, one of the reasons I
> questioned whether all conversations should happen in the issue queue at
> Apache (vs on PRs), which you didn't like, was for this reason.
>
> I agree with John that I don't see a problem with Microsoft buying GitHub,
> and you that a contingency plan / being clear about what we're using that
> isn't usefully mirrored is a good idea - just no more or less than it was
> before! ;-)
>
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:01 Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This works, it seems:
> > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-netbeans.git
> >
> > (The URL I mentioned before is one used for viewing in a browser, not
> sure
> > why the URLs are different for cloning and viewing.)
>
>
> That's the same on the GH repo too though isn't it?!
>

The content is (or should be) the same, of course. But the question was
"how to work without GitHub", so I was providing an URL where to find the
NB repository without touching GH.

Jan


>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 17:58 Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:

> One person's 'knee jerk reaction' is another person's contingency plan...
> When did we decide to marry GitHub?
>

I brought up the concern early on about how much of the GitHub workflow, is
*usefully* mirrored in Apache.  And ironically, one of the reasons I
questioned whether all conversations should happen in the issue queue at
Apache (vs on PRs), which you didn't like, was for this reason.

I agree with John that I don't see a problem with Microsoft buying GitHub,
and you that a contingency plan / being clear about what we're using that
isn't usefully mirrored is a good idea - just no more or less than it was
before! ;-)

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 18:01 Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This works, it seems:
> git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-netbeans.git
>
> (The URL I mentioned before is one used for viewing in a browser, not sure
> why the URLs are different for cloning and viewing.)

That's the same on the GH repo too though isn't it?!

Best wishes,

Neil

-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.

One person's 'knee jerk reaction' is another person's contingency plan... When did we decide to marry GitHub?

I created the PR (or "review") by creating an account on reviews.apache.org and just using the tool (there's a 'New Review Request' action).

More documentation about the tool can be found at https://www.reviewboard.org , makes no sense to compare workflows or some such.

reviews.apache.org needs a separate account to be created and I don't believe it necessarily has to be an Apache ID (but I haven't tested).

Anyhow, I'd say that more than half of the existing GitHub PRs are made by existing committers which could easily switch to reviews.apache.org .

Note that I'm not saying we should drop GitHub entirely, but demote it to a plain Git mirror and a secondary venue for PRs.

I don't think GitHub has that many things going for it actually:

* how many new developers added PRs in the last months? With all the developers having accounts there, GitHub is not really providing an ever-increasing flow of new people.

* how many developers are creating a (or re-activating their dormant) GitHub account just to contribute to NetBeans? If they are neutral about this and just care about the contribution, another site for PRs would accomplish the same. Some might even *prefer* to use an .apache.org site for this.

* how many PRs will we lose if we keep GitHub the only venue for PRs? Sure, we can say that emailing a patch file is just the same but look at this: https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/diff/1#index_header It's easier on the eye than a plain patch and doesn't seem like such a loss compared to GitHub, no?

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 June 2018 7:00 PM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I'm missing something, but how did you create the PR that this review site picked up? - Whats the workflow of this from someone just coming to NetBeans?  and how specifically does it differ to the workflow of someone willing to use GitHub?
> 
> Also whats the point?  A developer is more than likely to have a GitHub account as opposed to an Apache ID - Which I think you only get when you become a committer on an Apache Project no?
> 
> To me this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to the news that Microsoft is buying GitHub which I still don't see the problem with...
> 
> Regards
> 
> John
> 
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 16:53, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> 
> > > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> > 
> > This thread is about everything else except the git repo which can be trivially cloned from Apache or any other mirror:
> > 
> > * how does one start a new PR without a GitHub account?
> > 
> > * how does one comment and +1 an existing PR?
> > 
> > One first step towards fixing this is if we start using https://reviews.apache.org/groups/netbeans/ which is provided by Apache Software Foundation itself.
> > 
> > --emi
> > 
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > 
> > On 13 June 2018 5:49 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Gj
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Glenn Holmer cenbe@kolabnow.com wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > > On 06/13/2018 08:34 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > > Review Board for code reviews is working for NetBeans!
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > I've just created the first review:
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > I invite everyone to give this a try and join the 'netbeans' group on
> > 
> > > > >
> > 
> > > > > reviews.apache.org
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > Excellent.
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > > > On 7 June 2018 11:59 AM, Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
> > 
> > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow
> > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > > without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate in
> > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > > Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').
> > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > > involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > 
> > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
> > 
> > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > GitHub. AFAIK anyone can subscribe to this mailing list,
> > 
> > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > checkout from the Git repo on Apache:
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > 
> > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > and send patches to this mailing list.
> > 
> > > > > > > >
> > 
> > > > > > > > What's the correct way to clone that?
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > cenbe@greyhand:/mnt/common/temp > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git ./incubator-netbeans
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > Cloning into './incubator-netbeans'...
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > fatal: repository 'https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > netbeans.git/' not found
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > --
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.

I think I'm missing something, but how did you create the PR that this
review site picked up? - Whats the workflow of this from someone just
coming to NetBeans?  and how specifically does it differ to the workflow of
someone willing to use GitHub?

Also whats the point?  A developer is more than likely to have a GitHub
account as opposed to an Apache ID - Which I think you only get when you
become a committer on an Apache Project no?

To me this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to the news that Microsoft is
buying GitHub which I still don't see the problem with...


Regards

John

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 16:53, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:

> > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> >
> > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> >
> > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
>
> This thread is about everything else except the git repo which can be
> trivially cloned from Apache or any other mirror:
>
> * how does one start a new PR without a GitHub account?
>
> * how does one comment and +1 an existing PR?
>
> One first step towards fixing this is if we start using
> https://reviews.apache.org/groups/netbeans/ which is provided by Apache
> Software Foundation itself.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 13 June 2018 5:49 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> >
> > The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> >
> > Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Glenn Holmer cenbe@kolabnow.com wrote:
> >
> > > On 06/13/2018 08:34 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > >
> > > > Review Board for code reviews is working for NetBeans!
> > > >
> > > > I've just created the first review:
> > > >
> > > > https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/
> > > >
> > > > I invite everyone to give this a try and join the 'netbeans' group on
> > > >
> > > > reviews.apache.org
> > >
> > > Excellent.
> > >
> > > > > On 7 June 2018 11:59 AM, Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate in
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > GitHub. AFAIK anyone can subscribe to this mailing list,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > checkout from the Git repo on Apache:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > and send patches to this mailing list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's the correct way to clone that?
> > >
> > > cenbe@greyhand:/mnt/common/temp > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/
> > >
> > > repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git ./incubator-netbeans
> > >
> > > Cloning into './incubator-netbeans'...
> > >
> > > fatal: repository 'https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-
> > >
> > > netbeans.git/' not found
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> > >
> > > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.

> Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> 
> The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> 
> Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.

This thread is about everything else except the git repo which can be trivially cloned from Apache or any other mirror:

* how does one start a new PR without a GitHub account?

* how does one comment and +1 an existing PR?

One first step towards fixing this is if we start using https://reviews.apache.org/groups/netbeans/ which is provided by Apache Software Foundation itself.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 June 2018 5:49 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git
> 
> The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans
> 
> Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Glenn Holmer cenbe@kolabnow.com wrote:
> 
> > On 06/13/2018 08:34 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > 
> > > Review Board for code reviews is working for NetBeans!
> > > 
> > > I've just created the first review:
> > > 
> > > https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/
> > > 
> > > I invite everyone to give this a try and join the 'netbeans' group on
> > > 
> > > reviews.apache.org
> > 
> > Excellent.
> > 
> > > > On 7 June 2018 11:59 AM, Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate in
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > GitHub. AFAIK anyone can subscribe to this mailing list,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > checkout from the Git repo on Apache:
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > > > > 
> > > > > > and send patches to this mailing list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What's the correct way to clone that?
> > 
> > cenbe@greyhand:/mnt/common/temp > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/
> > 
> > repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git ./incubator-netbeans
> > 
> > Cloning into './incubator-netbeans'...
> > 
> > fatal: repository 'https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-
> > 
> > netbeans.git/' not found
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> > 
> > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


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Re: How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.

Git repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans.git

The above info is available like any other project on GitHub:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans

Go to the above link and click the green "Clone or download" button.

Gj



On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com> wrote:

> On 06/13/2018 08:34 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > Review Board for code reviews is working for NetBeans!
> >
> > I've just created the first review:
> > https://reviews.apache.org/r/67570/
> >
> > I invite everyone to give this a try and join the 'netbeans' group on
> > reviews.apache.org
>
> Excellent.
>
> >> On 7 June 2018 11:59 AM, Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow
> >>>>> without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate in
> >>>>> Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> >>>>> involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
> >>>> GitHub. AFAIK anyone can subscribe to this mailing list,
> >>>> checkout from the Git repo on Apache:
> >>>
> >>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> >>>
> >>>> and send patches to this mailing list.
> What's the correct way to clone that?
>
> cenbe@greyhand:/mnt/common/temp > git clone https://gitbox.apache.org/
> repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git ./incubator-netbeans
> Cloning into './incubator-netbeans'...
> fatal: repository 'https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-
> netbeans.git/' not found
>
> --
> Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>