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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Stephan Feder <sf...@stephan-feder.de> on 2002/10/13 21:57:22 UTC
CVS wrapper for SVN
Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses subversion
as backend?
Regards,
Stephan
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by Stephan Feder <sf...@stephan-feder.de>.
cmpilato@collab.net wrote:
>
> Stephan Feder <sf...@stephan-feder.de> writes:
>
> > Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses subversion
> > as backend?
>
> Heh...that'd actually be a pretty sweet academic exercise. I mean,
> think of the benefit to sysadmins: "Team, we're switching to
> Subversion for our projects -- but if you wanna be a pansy, you can
> still use your old CVS client."
Exactly.
But for this scheme to work the svn server must be somewhat restricted
(using the existing hooks?) because svn allows for operations that
cannot be mapped onto cvs (arbitrary cheap copies, etc). So, before
rethinking all that from scratch, and because the idea is so obvious
that certainly someone must have evaluated its feasibility I wanted to
ask on the list first.
What was _not_ on my mind are (and why):
1. svn client with cvs ui (instead replace the server only while leaving
all existing clients operational and allowing users to switch from cvs
client to svn client whenever they want to)
2. svn server with cvs backend (instead take advantage of svn's superior
repository)
3. cvs client with svn ui (I do not need it)
Sorry for answering others' comments in this message but so far your
reply is the only one that did not lose track of my question.
Thanks and regards,
Stephan
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Stephan Feder <sf...@stephan-feder.de> writes:
> Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses subversion
> as backend?
Heh...that'd actually be a pretty sweet academic exercise. I mean,
think of the benefit to sysadmins: "Team, we're switching to
Subversion for our projects -- but if you wanna be a pansy, you can
still use your old CVS client."
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by "Brent R. Matzelle" <bm...@yahoo.com>.
--- Brandon Ehle <az...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I compiled it the other day and nothing seemed to work. Spit out
> >>alot
> >>of APR error messages.
> >>
> >I assume by "nothing seemed to work" you mean you couldn't compile
> >it. The README.txt file has the necessary build instructions. If
> >there is something that is not clear then please let someone on
> this
> >list or the dev@rapidsvn.tigris.org list know about it.
> >
> >
> >
> No, it compiled just fine, but the all of my subversion controlled
> directories showed up as "Non-revisioned" and when ever I attempted
> to
> do an update or check out it died with various apr errors that I
> don't
> remember of the top of my head.
>
We have several developers working with RapidSVN on Linux and none of
them have reported these problems. I work with win32 and I have not
had these problems either. Are you using the latest version of the
APR and wxWindows 2.3.3?
Brent.
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by Brandon Ehle <az...@yahoo.com>.
>
>
>>I compiled it the other day and nothing seemed to work. Spit out
>>alot
>>of APR error messages.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I assume by "nothing seemed to work" you mean you couldn't compile
>it. The README.txt file has the necessary build instructions. If
>there is something that is not clear then please let someone on this
>list or the dev@rapidsvn.tigris.org list know about it.
>
>
>
No, it compiled just fine, but the all of my subversion controlled
directories showed up as "Non-revisioned" and when ever I attempted to
do an update or check out it died with various apr errors that I don't
remember of the top of my head.
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by "Brent R. Matzelle" <bm...@yahoo.com>.
--- Brandon Ehle <az...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sebastien Cevey wrote:
>
> >On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:22:11AM +0200, Branko ??ibej wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>get some more Subversion clients working (Emacs vs-mode
> integration,
> >>a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really good GUI client, and perhaps
> >>integration with IDEs)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >What about RapidSVN ? Isn't it "good", or how the development of
> this
> >client going (I haven't subscribed to its ML yet, already enough
> mails
> >with this one) ?
> >
> >
> I compiled it the other day and nothing seemed to work. Spit out
> alot
> of APR error messages.
>
I assume by "nothing seemed to work" you mean you couldn't compile
it. The README.txt file has the necessary build instructions. If
there is something that is not clear then please let someone on this
list or the dev@rapidsvn.tigris.org list know about it.
Regards,
Brent.
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by Brandon Ehle <az...@yahoo.com>.
Sebastien Cevey wrote:
>On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:22:11AM +0200, Branko ??ibej wrote:
>
>
>
>>get some more Subversion clients working (Emacs vs-mode integration,
>>a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really good GUI client, and perhaps
>>integration with IDEs)
>>
>>
>
>What about RapidSVN ? Isn't it "good", or how the development of this
>client going (I haven't subscribed to its ML yet, already enough mails
>with this one) ?
>
>
I compiled it the other day and nothing seemed to work. Spit out alot
of APR error messages.
>Last time I tried (not long ago), it worked (which meets our first
>expectations :) fine. And it's multi-platform.
>
>Indeed, it's currently very simple, but I think it can already handle
>basic tasks very well.
>
>Since this is what *a lot* of developpers wait for before they switch
>to subversion, I think it's an important "feature", but which seems
>already quite usable.
>
>
>
>
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by "Brent R. Matzelle" <bm...@yahoo.com>.
--- Sebastien Cevey <se...@cine7.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:22:11AM +0200, Branko ??ibej wrote:
>
> > get some more Subversion clients working (Emacs vs-mode
> integration,
> > a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really good GUI client, and perhaps
> > integration with IDEs)
>
> What about RapidSVN ? Isn't it "good", or how the development of
> this
> client going (I haven't subscribed to its ML yet, already enough
> mails
> with this one) ?
As a project leader for RapidSVN I would like to think that it is
"good" :) I haven't given this list any updates about the program
lately so I'll take this chance to get everyone a little more up to
date with it.
> Last time I tried (not long ago), it worked (which meets our first
> expectations :) fine. And it's multi-platform.
It is actually much more platform independent than it once was thanks
to David Mears. All forms have been converted to sizers so all
dialogs look the same no matter what platform.
> Indeed, it's currently very simple, but I think it can already
> handle
> basic tasks very well.
>
> Since this is what *a lot* of developpers wait for before they
> switch
> to subversion, I think it's an important "feature", but which seems
> already quite usable.
>
Here's a list of some recent functionality built into RapidSVN:
* Workbench - the normal directory browser has been replaced with
this tool which allows you save multiple directory paths for quick
access to repositories. This is the handiwork of xela (Alex).
* Log History - this is a viewer dialog that displays all revision
information (rev #, user, date, log message) in a nice looking list
control.
* The SvnCpp client C++ API has been integrated everywhere in the
project. Many enhancements have been integrated this project over
the past couple months.
* We have a lot more things planned for the coming weeks so please
stay tuned. Join the mailing list if you want to hear about all the
really bleeding edge developments.
I'll be posting this info along with some new screenshots that show
the above functionality probably some time this week.
Brent.
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by Sebastien Cevey <se...@cine7.net>.
On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:22:11AM +0200, Branko ??ibej wrote:
> get some more Subversion clients working (Emacs vs-mode integration,
> a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really good GUI client, and perhaps
> integration with IDEs)
What about RapidSVN ? Isn't it "good", or how the development of this
client going (I haven't subscribed to its ML yet, already enough mails
with this one) ?
Last time I tried (not long ago), it worked (which meets our first
expectations :) fine. And it's multi-platform.
Indeed, it's currently very simple, but I think it can already handle
basic tasks very well.
Since this is what *a lot* of developpers wait for before they switch
to subversion, I think it's an important "feature", but which seems
already quite usable.
--
Sebastien Cevey <se...@cine7.net>
Cine7 - www.cine7.net
Milcis - www.milcis.net
ICQ: 48895760
" Rosebud... "
Orson Welles (Charles F. Kane) [ Citizen Kane ]
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by David Mankin <da...@ants.com>.
On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 05:22 PM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> David Mankin wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 02:57 PM, Stephan Feder wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses
>>> subversion
>>> as backend?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stephan
>>
>>
>> That's a pretty neat idea. I had earlier suggested the idea of an
>> subversion client(-wrapper?) that understood the CVS command line
>> flag structure. Then it would be possible that IDEs and other
>> programs that already "integrate" with CVS through the CLI would be
>> able to, de facto, talk to SVN.
>>
>> If such a thing existed, then maybe you could use that for ssh access
>> instead of ra_pipe. A CVS client could be configured to use rsh/ssh
>> access to the CVS-friendly SVN client. That could provide the same
>> results as a CVS sever that uses subversion as a backend.
>
>
> *sigh*
>
> Every one of these ideas has been discussed before.
Thanks for the analysis, Brane. But I think you're conflating ideas 2
and 3.
> 1. SVN client can connect to CVS server. This requires creating a new
> RA layer, call it ra_cvs. It also has a ton of problems:
> * How do you simulate the global repository revision?
> * How do you map CVS tags and branches into the SVN namespace
> * What to do about unimplementable features -- moves, renames,
> atomic commits, etc?
> 2. CVS-like client can connect to a SVN server. To achieve this, you
> have to either extend CVS client (eeek, have you looked at the
> code?), or write a new server that understands the CVS network
> protocol and speaks to the Subversion repository. This is doable
> (e.g., by using the Python bindings), but again has some problems
> -- in fact, theyre the complement of the problems in (1).
Your answer #2 seems rather to address:
2. CVS-server can talk CVS network protocol.
Would you also please address:
3. CVS-like client can connect to a SVN server. (I.e. a client
which implements the CVS commandline syntax (and MAYBE WC semantics).)
Maybe #3 should be split into 3a: with CVS WC semantics, and 3b: with
SVN WC semantics.
> To summarize: yes, it can be done, and it'd be way cool, but it's a
> huge amount of work. I've always thought it would make much more sense
> to put the effort in a) making cvs2svn really work (e.g.., teach it to
> understand tags and branches), and b) get some more Subversion clients
> working (Emacs vs-mode integration, a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really
> good GUI client, and perhaps integration with IDEs). Do that, and
> migration will be much easier.
a) Alas, I don't know python and don't have any time to learn.
b) It'd be swell indeed if every IDE/editor/GUI client that can talk
CVS today could talk SVN in the future. However, there are lots of
them which is why I proposed making SVN CVS-compatible as a
kill-many-birds-with-one-stone approach. (Or at least injure many
birds with one stone so they don't get away while you kill them one at
a time. (Yuck, this metaphor just got too icky to keep using. Sorry.))
-David Mankin
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
David Mankin wrote:
>
> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 02:57 PM, Stephan Feder wrote:
>
>> Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses subversion
>> as backend?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stephan
>
>
> That's a pretty neat idea. I had earlier suggested the idea of an
> subversion client(-wrapper?) that understood the CVS command line flag
> structure. Then it would be possible that IDEs and other programs
> that already "integrate" with CVS through the CLI would be able to, de
> facto, talk to SVN.
>
> If such a thing existed, then maybe you could use that for ssh access
> instead of ra_pipe. A CVS client could be configured to use rsh/ssh
> access to the CVS-friendly SVN client. That could provide the same
> results as a CVS sever that uses subversion as a backend.
*sigh*
Every one of these ideas has been discussed before.
1. SVN client can connect to CVS server. This requires creating a new
RA layer, call it ra_cvs. It also has a ton of problems:
* How do you simulate the global repository revision?
* How do you map CVS tags and branches into the SVN namespace
* What to do about unimplementable features -- moves, renames,
atomic commits, etc?
2. CVS-like client can connect to a SVN server. To achieve this, you
have to either extend CVS client (eeek, have you looked at the
code?), or write a new server that understands the CVS network
protocol and speaks to the Subversion repository. This is doable
(e.g., by using the Python bindings), but again has some problems
-- in fact, theyre the complement of the problems in (1).
To summarize: yes, it can be done, and it'd be way cool, but it's a huge
amount of work. I've always thought it would make much more sense to put
the effort in a) making cvs2svn really work (e.g.., teach it to
understand tags and branches), and b) get some more Subversion clients
working (Emacs vs-mode integration, a pcl-cvs-like interface, a really
good GUI client, and perhaps integration with IDEs). Do that, and
migration will be much easier.
--
Brane Čibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: CVS wrapper for SVN
Posted by David Mankin <da...@ants.com>.
On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 02:57 PM, Stephan Feder wrote:
> Has anyone thought about implementing a CVS server that uses subversion
> as backend?
>
> Regards,
> Stephan
That's a pretty neat idea. I had earlier suggested the idea of an
subversion client(-wrapper?) that understood the CVS command line flag
structure. Then it would be possible that IDEs and other programs that
already "integrate" with CVS through the CLI would be able to, de
facto, talk to SVN.
If such a thing existed, then maybe you could use that for ssh access
instead of ra_pipe. A CVS client could be configured to use rsh/ssh
access to the CVS-friendly SVN client. That could provide the same
results as a CVS sever that uses subversion as a backend.
-David Mankin
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