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Posted to dev@fineract.apache.org by Michael Vorburger <mi...@vorburger.ch> on 2021/01/04 17:57:53 UTC
Re: list serv norms
James your proposal seems to include suggesting that we move the dev@ list
to a fully moderate mode. I don't think we currently are set up like that.
Doing so requires significant investment from a group of people to actively
moderate. I personally have some doubts that we have sufficient critical
mass in this community to actively moderate a mailing list, and think
keeping this list open as-is is simpler - but would be very happy to be
proven wrong. Your other points all do make sense to me - I think it's
great if more "senior" members of the mailing list who have been around the
community a little while can jump to help guide people on any threads from
"newer" community members.
BTW the "traditional" solution used in many other open source projects
would be to "split up" into 2 separate mailing lists - one more focused on
technical discussions for future releases, and one on end-user discussions,
more typically for released versions (but this doesn't have to be a super
hard rule). The "risk" of course is that things could also become a bit
more "fragmented", but maybe that's not a huge issue?
FYI this community actually did have a separate user@fineract.apache.org
list in the past (+2 years ago; see the archives e.g. here
<https://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fineract.user+order%3Adate-backward#query:list%3Aorg.apache.fineract.user%20order%3Adate-backward+page:1+mid:x6fglsitv5slcsq6+state:results>),
but it went unused; all discussions were only on the dev list. I had
removed the link to it from https://fineract.apache.org in
https://github.com/apache/fineract-site/commit/2a28160dd1767771d887a82583a35f902dcf6740,
to avoid confusion.
What are everyone's thoughts about re-instantiating the user@ list in
parallel to this dev@ list? Perhaps the time is right for that now. It just
needs someone to actually drive doing this; I'm actually not sure if that
list just went "silent" or was actually "deactivated" back then. (I
personally will not drive reviving it, but anyone motivated could step up
to do that.)
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 7:50 AM Saransh Sharma <sa...@muellners.com>
wrote:
> + 1 , in fact we could have a dedicated service desk with community
> members supporting each other. That way we can build a pool of updated
> knowledge base.
>
> Most questions come here because there is no filter or a clear step on
> the website like we could use stackoverflow to post how tos and this is not
> working style questions.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 3:39 AM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all -
>>
>> I am seeing a fair amount of requests for help, and also many "what are
>> you trying to do?" responses from people on the list. As we grow the
>> participation this is normal, but it seems to be clogging up the needed
>> technical discussions. We need to organize this a bit more.
>>
>> *Proposed: (please give your +1, -1, or Neutral within 72 hrs) *
>>
>> As a group we shall:
>> 1) Send a STANDARD RESPONSE (See below) to all new people to list. Any
>> new person coming to the list is welcomed with a standard email that
>> includes the links and explanations. The message will include the
>> admonition to ONLY POST once you have read the materials. see wiki, faq,
>> jira tickets, readme, demo servers, etc.
>>
>> 2) It is also a norm on listservs that people should join, introduce
>> themselves and describe why they are here. i.e. I am here as a student
>> learning a new skill, I am running a production version and need help, I am
>> looking to build something, I have a major critical bug that is holding
>> back my fintech, and the catch all "I am here to learn more and maybe
>> participate later". Until the person has done an introduction of some
>> kind, the list members will keep reminding that person that they need to do
>> so because it provides context.
>>
>> 3) One Subject per email enforced
>> If someone introduces a new topic, that email is rejected by the
>> moderators, with a request that the person start a new thread.
>>
>> 4) Each new email thread contains some context. Each posting should
>> include what it's about. i.e. "This is about trying to set up a local
>> instance so I can do some local testing with new features I'm
>> developing"... vs. "I just need to see the functionality, can someone point
>> me to a how to on config" vs. "I have a proposal for how to automate some
>> testing" vs. "I am working on bug issue #xxx".
>>
>> 5) Each email dealing with a bug or issue or question should include the
>> version of software and/or where it was downloaded from. Hopefully if (1)
>> is handled well, then they know not to download one of the old versions
>> that may be floating around out there.
>>
>> 6) Emails that reference existing bugs, cite a discussion onlist and
>> provide appropriate links to Jira tickets are answered first and with
>> attention. We encourage this strongly.
>>
>> ---
>> STANDARD RESPONSE #1
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318
>> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318>
>>
>> This is a volunteer run effort.
>>
>> As a kind of quick overview for how to dig in:
>>
>> 1. Consult the fineract web page <http://fineract.apache.org/>
>> 2. Read the FAQ
>> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/FAQ>
>> 3. Review the APIs and check out the features on the demo server (
>> https://www.fineract.dev)
>> 4. Peruse some of this wiki
>> 5. Browse some of the Jira issues
>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/FINERACT/issues/> (aka
>> tickets, bugs, enhancements)
>> 6. Set up dev environment (if coding) or go to a demo environment (if
>> documentation or UI) per instructions on wiki and readme
>> 7. Dig further into wiki
>> 8. Ask questions about specific tasks or code on the list
>> 9. Before doing any code, please be sure to check in via tickets and
>> listserv and understand the process
>>
>>
>> As a reminder this is a volunteer run effort, be respectful and only ask
>> questions once you have read the materials, and tried to figure things out
>> yourself.
>>
>> STANDARD RESPONSE #2
>> I see you are having an issue with the project software, either
>> configuration or standing it up locally.
>>
>> Did you read and follow the information provided on
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318
>> ?
>>
>> Where did you find the software for download? Please send a link to the
>> download spot and the instructions you followed. There are some older
>> versions still floating out there, and you may be on that.
>>
>> What are you trying to accomplish or what is your issue? And do you have
>> deep experience or are you relatively new to the project?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Saransh Sharma
> *Research Partner*
> *Muellner Internet Pvt Ltd *
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The idea of separation of me and you is amazing.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Company Website <https://www.muellners.com/> **Company Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/muellners> *Company Facebook
> <https://www.facebook.com/muellners>
>
> This mail is governed by Muellner® Internet Private Limited's IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
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> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
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>
Re: list serv norms
Posted by Saransh Sharma <sa...@muellners.org>.
I support having a user@ mailing list idea and keeping it separate for user defined questions and as well promoting asking questions at Stackoverflow like portals.
Thanks
> On 04-Jan-2021, at 11:27 PM, Michael Vorburger <mi...@vorburger.ch> wrote:
>
> James your proposal seems to include suggesting that we move the dev@ list to a fully moderate mode. I don't think we currently are set up like that. Doing so requires significant investment from a group of people to actively moderate. I personally have some doubts that we have sufficient critical mass in this community to actively moderate a mailing list, and think keeping this list open as-is is simpler - but would be very happy to be proven wrong. Your other points all do make sense to me - I think it's great if more "senior" members of the mailing list who have been around the community a little while can jump to help guide people on any threads from "newer" community members.
>
> BTW the "traditional" solution used in many other open source projects would be to "split up" into 2 separate mailing lists - one more focused on technical discussions for future releases, and one on end-user discussions, more typically for released versions (but this doesn't have to be a super hard rule). The "risk" of course is that things could also become a bit more "fragmented", but maybe that's not a huge issue?
>
> FYI this community actually did have a separate user@fineract.apache.org <ma...@fineract.apache.org> list in the past (+2 years ago; see the archives e.g. here <https://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fineract.user+order%3Adate-backward#query:list%3Aorg.apache.fineract.user%20order%3Adate-backward+page:1+mid:x6fglsitv5slcsq6+state:results>), but it went unused; all discussions were only on the dev list. I had removed the link to it from https://fineract.apache.org <https://fineract.apache.org/> in https://github.com/apache/fineract-site/commit/2a28160dd1767771d887a82583a35f902dcf6740 <https://github.com/apache/fineract-site/commit/2a28160dd1767771d887a82583a35f902dcf6740>, to avoid confusion.
>
> What are everyone's thoughts about re-instantiating the user@ list in parallel to this dev@ list? Perhaps the time is right for that now. It just needs someone to actually drive doing this; I'm actually not sure if that list just went "silent" or was actually "deactivated" back then. (I personally will not drive reviving it, but anyone motivated could step up to do that.)
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 7:50 AM Saransh Sharma <saransh@muellners.com <ma...@muellners.com>> wrote:
> + 1 , in fact we could have a dedicated service desk with community members supporting each other. That way we can build a pool of updated knowledge base.
>
> Most questions come here because there is no filter or a clear step on the website like we could use stackoverflow to post how tos and this is not working style questions.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 3:39 AM James Dailey <jamespdailey@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> I am seeing a fair amount of requests for help, and also many "what are you trying to do?" responses from people on the list. As we grow the participation this is normal, but it seems to be clogging up the needed technical discussions. We need to organize this a bit more.
>
> Proposed: (please give your +1, -1, or Neutral within 72 hrs)
>
> As a group we shall:
> 1) Send a STANDARD RESPONSE (See below) to all new people to list. Any new person coming to the list is welcomed with a standard email that includes the links and explanations. The message will include the admonition to ONLY POST once you have read the materials. see wiki, faq, jira tickets, readme, demo servers, etc.
>
> 2) It is also a norm on listservs that people should join, introduce themselves and describe why they are here. i.e. I am here as a student learning a new skill, I am running a production version and need help, I am looking to build something, I have a major critical bug that is holding back my fintech, and the catch all "I am here to learn more and maybe participate later". Until the person has done an introduction of some kind, the list members will keep reminding that person that they need to do so because it provides context.
>
> 3) One Subject per email enforced
> If someone introduces a new topic, that email is rejected by the moderators, with a request that the person start a new thread.
>
> 4) Each new email thread contains some context. Each posting should include what it's about. i.e. "This is about trying to set up a local instance so I can do some local testing with new features I'm developing"... vs. "I just need to see the functionality, can someone point me to a how to on config" vs. "I have a proposal for how to automate some testing" vs. "I am working on bug issue #xxx".
>
> 5) Each email dealing with a bug or issue or question should include the version of software and/or where it was downloaded from. Hopefully if (1) is handled well, then they know not to download one of the old versions that may be floating around out there.
>
> 6) Emails that reference existing bugs, cite a discussion onlist and provide appropriate links to Jira tickets are answered first and with attention. We encourage this strongly.
>
> ---
> STANDARD RESPONSE #1
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318>
> This is a volunteer run effort.
> As a kind of quick overview for how to dig in:
> Consult the fineract web page <http://fineract.apache.org/>
> Read the FAQ <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/FAQ>
> Review the APIs and check out the features on the demo server (https://www.fineract.dev <https://www.fineract.dev/>)
> Peruse some of this wiki
> Browse some of the Jira issues <https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/FINERACT/issues/> (aka tickets, bugs, enhancements)
> Set up dev environment (if coding) or go to a demo environment (if documentation or UI) per instructions on wiki and readme
> Dig further into wiki
> Ask questions about specific tasks or code on the list
> Before doing any code, please be sure to check in via tickets and listserv and understand the process
>
> As a reminder this is a volunteer run effort, be respectful and only ask questions once you have read the materials, and tried to figure things out yourself.
>
> STANDARD RESPONSE #2
> I see you are having an issue with the project software, either configuration or standing it up locally.
>
> Did you read and follow the information provided on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103094318> ?
>
> Where did you find the software for download? Please send a link to the download spot and the instructions you followed. There are some older versions still floating out there, and you may be on that.
>
> What are you trying to accomplish or what is your issue? And do you have deep experience or are you relatively new to the project?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Saransh Sharma
>
> Research Partner
> Muellner Internet Pvt Ltd
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The idea of separation of me and you is amazing.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Company Website <https://www.muellners.com/> Company Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/company/muellners> Company Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/muellners>
>
> This mail is governed by Muellner® Internet Private Limited's IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.