Fixing the doco and more... (was RE: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures")

[Vincent Massol <vm...@pivolis.com>]

Hi Lee,

That’s really cool. I like it when people act positively and this is really
what open source is about. Let me know what you need and I'll do my best to
help you.

Thanks
-Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Chalupa [mailto:lchalupa@seelink.org]
> Sent: dimanche 22 août 2004 11:43
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: RE: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
> 
> Ok. First, we need to come up with
> a better business model: one that works for you and others like yourself.
> What's the long term value of burning your most important people out? If
> we
> can't find a better balance in this "exchange of value" it's just a matter
> of
> time before it's dead.  I'll give this some more thought starting with
> some
> attributes of the typical Cactus user. I for one would
> gladly pay some amount of money for responsive and useful support
> especially
> when I'm using the product in my development process.
> 
> I'll put off my evaluation of the commercial product I'm looking at and
> put that
> effort into Cactus.
> 
> Second, I'll help fix the documentation and work on providing other self
> help
> alternatives. A wiki might be part of the answer, I'd like to do some more
> analysis to better understand the problem.
> 
> First things first. I need help getting the product installed.  I'll start
> again
> and post my progress and questions on the mailing list.
> 
> I look forward to working with you.
> 
> lee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Vincent Massol <vm...@pivolis.com>:
> 
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Thanks for the effort in awakening me. However, I don't think I need a
> wake
> > up call. What I need is help. Help from others. I have been working on
> > Cactus for more than 4 years now and I'm also participating to more and
> more
> > other open source products. I have always encouraged very positively any
> > help.
> >
> > If you want to help (or anyone else for that matter), instead of saying
> how
> > to do X, Y, Z, point to where the documentation has flaws (and it has a
> > lot). Even better, once you understand how it works, help fix the
> > documentation! Do you know how many persons have submitted documentation
> > patches over the past 4 years? (I'd say under 10).
> >
> > What you may not understand is that I don't care if you don't use
> Cactus.
> > It's your choice. If you have found another tool that is better and/or
> that
> > suits what you try to do better, then all the best! I'm not selling
> > anything.
> >
> > I have personally created and used Cactus in the period 1998-2000 and
> since
> > then I have never used it. However, I've tried not to let anyone down
> and
> > I've continued to support it by answering to emails (I'm almost the only
> one
> > doing so BTW), fix bugs, and make some headway (albeit slowly as I have
> some
> > problems in working more than 18 hours per day). Several times I wanted
> to
> > stop but people kept coming and telling me that they liked it. So in
> > deference to them, I've continued the work as much as I could.
> >
> > Whining almost never helps in open source. Helping does. You can help in
> > several ways: answer to emails on the mailing list, help improve the
> > documentation, fix one of the 30 or so outstanding bugs/feature
> requests,
> > find some persons interested in helping, etc. If at least you were
> providing
> > a solution... And there are solution. One of them that I have been
> > contemplating for some time, is to move the Cactus doco to a Wiki so
> that it
> > lowers the bar of improving the documentation. But making the move is a
> big
> > task in itself and so far all the wikis I've seen were less good in
> feature
> > than the current site. Confluence is my current preferred choice but I
> need
> > to find the time to make the move. BTW, if you're interested in helping
> I
> > can give you hints on how to make that move. That would help.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lee Chalupa [mailto:lchalupa@seelink.org]
> > > Sent: samedi 21 août 2004 17:16
> > > To: Cactus Users List
> > > Subject: RE: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
> > >
> > > Vincent:
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to flame you or your associates Vincent but you need a
> > > wakup call
> > > when it comes to your documentation and the built-in complexity of
> your
> > > product.  Your current approach just doesn't match your mission
> statement.
> > > Do
> > > you really expect new users to spend days of high levels of
> frustration to
> > > get
> > > your software installed? I might add that they are frustrating days
> too.
> > > It's
> > > ironic that a tool that promotes testing hasn't devised tests that
> would
> > > help a
> > > developer know if the software is deployed properly and if not,
> provide
> > > some
> > > kind of clue where the problem is.  As an alternative to Cactus, I'm
> > > currently
> > > evaluating an inexpensive software tool that provides similar
> > > functionality to
> > > cactus. It wasn't my first choice. I can report that it deployed
> itself in
> > > about 20 minutes start to finish. Done! As for your documentation, I
> can
> > > cite
> > > many examples where the vagueness of your directions leaves enough
> room
> > > for
> > > interpretation to drive a truck through the holes all the while you
> state
> > > in
> > > your messages to users that you need to "follow the instructions
> exactly":
> > > my
> > > point is there is no exactly to your documentation.
> > >
> > >
> > > I know you and your associates are working hard and I commend you for
> your
> > > efforts. I have stopped short a number of times of giving you this
> > > feedback but
> > > in the end I don't think withholding feedback makes anything better.
> > > Please
> > > try to take my comments in the constructive manner that they were
> meant.
> > >
> > > The good news is that there would be a whold bunch more developers
> using
> > > your
> > > product if you can find a way to help them get started that doesn't
> "raise
> > > the
> > > bar" over their heads.
> > >
> > > Good Luck.
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Vincent Massol <vm...@pivolis.com>:
> > >
> > > > Hi Phil,
> > > >
> > > > The following page
> > > > http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/writing/howto_testcase.html says it
> all
> > > too
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > -Vincent
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Philemon Siclone [mailto:philemon_siclone@yahoo.fr]
> > > > > Sent: mercredi 18 août 2004 14:54
> > > > > To: cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > The title says it all (almost). I'd like to execute some code on
> the
> > > > > server-side before and after a set of (servlet)testcases is run.
> At
> > > the
> > > > > moment I have written a (classic junit) testSuite containing the
> > > > > servletTestCases, but the fixtures of this testSuite get executed
> on
> > > > > the client-side (obviously).
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like a quite simple need but I could not find any answer
> on
> > > > > the cactus-website.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > (and sorry for my bad english)
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: I do not use cactus-ant tasks for tests-execution : my IDE
> does
> > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ?
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> > > > >
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