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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Markus Stier <ma...@stegmannsystems.com> on 2011/12/14 11:28:48 UTC
Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Hi!
There are currently (at least) two places which address the compatibility between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html%23GPL&usg=AFQjCNH02TOYbzl_XyBrUqHyzHRv1PHsMQ>, ASF states that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html&usg=AFQjCNEBUqUHJUJGs0TrdrzyurFkaPnaMQ>, the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be the more appropriate statement.
I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
Best
Markus
Re: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@hoplahup.net>.
Le 14 déc. 2011 à 12:47, Markus Stier a écrit :
>> Q: Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?
>> A: Although the Free Software Foundation website indicates a rather strong
>> incompatibility, the answer to this question boils down to one of the two
>> following questions:
>
> Why "strong incompatibility"? There is an incompatibility with GPL version 2, which is resolved in GPL 3.
> Since most GPL libraries are licensed with "GPL version 2 or later" this should not be an issue.
I never understood this incompatibility which has always appeared to assume from a reader such as me that licensing everything in one viral license is the aim at the end of the day. This aim is not realizable, period.
So I disagree it depends on the GPL version. Many products have been released under GPL 2.1 with linkages to software Apache Public License and do not worry of such an incompatibility.
But then, I know it has been stated differently in different places so I'm ok if your FAQ formulation is better than mine.
Both would be a lot better than what is currently there (which basically says "if you want to listen and worry about FSF's licenses, here's what they say)".
paul
> I would suggest:
> Q: Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?
> A: It depends on the GPL version and the usage scenario.
> The answer to this question boils down to one of the two
> following questions:
>
>>
>> Q: Can I license my software under the Apache Public License if it links to
>> software under the GNU Public License
>> A: No. The GNU Public License requires any software linked to a software
>> under the GNU Public License to be under the same license.
>
> OK
>
>> Q: Can I license my software under the GNU Public License if it links to a
>> component under the Apache Public License?
>> A: Yes. Nothing of both licenses prevent this.
>> Note that it still means that the attributions of the softwares under the two
>> different licenses will be required.
>
> I'd suggest:
>
> Q: Can I license my software under the GNU Public License if it links to a
> component under the Apache Public License?
> A: Yes, if you use GPL version 3. Nothing of both licenses prevent this.
> Note that it still means that the attributions of the softwares under the two
> different licenses will be required.
>
>>
>> Maybe I'm too strong but at least I'd claim to be pragmatic.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 12:11, Markus Stier a écrit :
>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> I think it comes down to these two questions:
>>> 1. "Can I license my software under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
>>> as you mentioned and:
>>> 2. "Can I license my software under Apache License if linking to an GPL
>> library?"
>>>
>>> Regarding the first question, the FSF states that Apache License 2.0 and
>> GPL 3.0 are compatible and therefore the answer is "Yes".
>>> Regarding the second question the answer is "No". The explanation is
>> given in http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html.
>>>
>>> I'm not related to ASF nor FSF. I'm just examining licenses for a project of
>> mine and discovered the ambiguity in the ASF FAQ. Again, I suggest that you
>> remove the "Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public
>> License)?" question and replace it with those from above.
>>>
>>> Markus
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Markus,
>>>>
>>>> could you please describe your compatibility definition?
>>>>
>>>> That whole discussion, and ping pong among FSF and ASF about it,
>>>> leads me to think that compatibility should just not be mentioned.
>>>> The true questions would be, for example "Can I license my software
>>>> under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
>>>>
>>>> Or?
>>>>
>>>> paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 11:28, Markus Stier a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> There are currently (at least) two places which address the
>>>>> compatibility
>>>> between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
>>>>> At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF
>>>>> states
>>>> that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
>>>>> According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
>>>>> the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
>>>> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be
>>>> the more appropriate statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>>
>>>>> Markus
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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AW: AW: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Markus Stier <ma...@stegmannsystems.com>.
Paul,
see below...
>
> Markus,
>
> I would suggest you open a jira issue about this with a suggestion for a FAQ
> change.
> I read a completely different answer to the question in the FAQ (a citation of
> the FSF's point of view), this sounds weird..
>
> I would suggest:
>
> Q: Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?
> A: Although the Free Software Foundation website indicates a rather strong
> incompatibility, the answer to this question boils down to one of the two
> following questions:
Why "strong incompatibility"? There is an incompatibility with GPL version 2, which is resolved in GPL 3.
Since most GPL libraries are licensed with "GPL version 2 or later" this should not be an issue.
I would suggest:
Q: Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?
A: It depends on the GPL version and the usage scenario.
The answer to this question boils down to one of the two
following questions:
>
> Q: Can I license my software under the Apache Public License if it links to
> software under the GNU Public License
> A: No. The GNU Public License requires any software linked to a software
> under the GNU Public License to be under the same license.
OK
> Q: Can I license my software under the GNU Public License if it links to a
> component under the Apache Public License?
> A: Yes. Nothing of both licenses prevent this.
> Note that it still means that the attributions of the softwares under the two
> different licenses will be required.
I'd suggest:
Q: Can I license my software under the GNU Public License if it links to a
component under the Apache Public License?
A: Yes, if you use GPL version 3. Nothing of both licenses prevent this.
Note that it still means that the attributions of the softwares under the two
different licenses will be required.
>
> Maybe I'm too strong but at least I'd claim to be pragmatic.
>
> paul
>
>
> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 12:11, Markus Stier a écrit :
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > I think it comes down to these two questions:
> > 1. "Can I license my software under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
> > as you mentioned and:
> > 2. "Can I license my software under Apache License if linking to an GPL
> library?"
> >
> > Regarding the first question, the FSF states that Apache License 2.0 and
> GPL 3.0 are compatible and therefore the answer is "Yes".
> > Regarding the second question the answer is "No". The explanation is
> given in http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html.
> >
> > I'm not related to ASF nor FSF. I'm just examining licenses for a project of
> mine and discovered the ambiguity in the ASF FAQ. Again, I suggest that you
> remove the "Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public
> License)?" question and replace it with those from above.
> >
> > Markus
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Markus,
> >>
> >> could you please describe your compatibility definition?
> >>
> >> That whole discussion, and ping pong among FSF and ASF about it,
> >> leads me to think that compatibility should just not be mentioned.
> >> The true questions would be, for example "Can I license my software
> >> under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
> >>
> >> Or?
> >>
> >> paul
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 11:28, Markus Stier a écrit :
> >>
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> There are currently (at least) two places which address the
> >>> compatibility
> >> between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
> >>> At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF
> >>> states
> >> that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
> >>> According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
> >>> the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
> >> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be
> >> the more appropriate statement.
> >>>
> >>> I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>>
> >>> Markus
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
>
>
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Re: AW: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@hoplahup.net>.
Markus,
I would suggest you open a jira issue about this with a suggestion for a FAQ change.
I read a completely different answer to the question in the FAQ (a citation of the FSF's point of view), this sounds weird..
I would suggest:
Q: Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?
A: Although the Free Software Foundation website indicates a rather strong incompatibility, the answer to this question boils down to one of the two following questions:
Q: Can I license my software under the Apache Public License if it links to software under the GNU Public License
A: No. The GNU Public License requires any software linked to a software under the GNU Public License to be under the same license.
Q: Can I license my software under the GNU Public License if it links to a component under the Apache Public License?
A: Yes. Nothing of both licenses prevent this.
Note that it still means that the attributions of the softwares under the two different licenses will be required.
Maybe I'm too strong but at least I'd claim to be pragmatic.
paul
Le 14 déc. 2011 à 12:11, Markus Stier a écrit :
> Paul,
>
> I think it comes down to these two questions:
> 1. "Can I license my software under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
> as you mentioned and:
> 2. "Can I license my software under Apache License if linking to an GPL library?"
>
> Regarding the first question, the FSF states that Apache License 2.0 and GPL 3.0 are compatible and therefore the answer is "Yes".
> Regarding the second question the answer is "No". The explanation is given in http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html.
>
> I'm not related to ASF nor FSF. I'm just examining licenses for a project of mine and discovered the ambiguity in the ASF FAQ. Again, I suggest that you remove the "Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?" question and replace it with those from above.
>
> Markus
>
>
>>
>> Markus,
>>
>> could you please describe your compatibility definition?
>>
>> That whole discussion, and ping pong among FSF and ASF about it, leads me
>> to think that compatibility should just not be mentioned.
>> The true questions would be, for example "Can I license my software under
>> GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
>>
>> Or?
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 11:28, Markus Stier a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> There are currently (at least) two places which address the compatibility
>> between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
>>> At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states
>> that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
>>> According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
>>> the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
>> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be the
>> more appropriate statement.
>>>
>>> I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Markus
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
>
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AW: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Markus Stier <ma...@stegmannsystems.com>.
Paul,
I think it comes down to these two questions:
1. "Can I license my software under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
as you mentioned and:
2. "Can I license my software under Apache License if linking to an GPL library?"
Regarding the first question, the FSF states that Apache License 2.0 and GPL 3.0 are compatible and therefore the answer is "Yes".
Regarding the second question the answer is "No". The explanation is given in http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html.
I'm not related to ASF nor FSF. I'm just examining licenses for a project of mine and discovered the ambiguity in the ASF FAQ. Again, I suggest that you remove the "Is the Apache license compatible with the GPL (GNU Public License)?" question and replace it with those from above.
Markus
>
> Markus,
>
> could you please describe your compatibility definition?
>
> That whole discussion, and ping pong among FSF and ASF about it, leads me
> to think that compatibility should just not be mentioned.
> The true questions would be, for example "Can I license my software under
> GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
>
> Or?
>
> paul
>
>
> Le 14 déc. 2011 à 11:28, Markus Stier a écrit :
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > There are currently (at least) two places which address the compatibility
> between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
> > At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states
> that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
> > According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
> > the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be the
> more appropriate statement.
> >
> > I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Markus
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@hoplahup.net>.
Markus,
could you please describe your compatibility definition?
That whole discussion, and ping pong among FSF and ASF about it, leads me to think that compatibility should just not be mentioned.
The true questions would be, for example "Can I license my software under GPL if linking to an ASF library?"
Or?
paul
Le 14 déc. 2011 à 11:28, Markus Stier a écrit :
> Hi!
>
> There are currently (at least) two places which address the compatibility between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
> At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
> According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html, the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be the more appropriate statement.
>
> I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>
> Best
>
> Markus
>
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Re: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 14 December 2011 11:12, Markus Stier
<ma...@stegmannsystems.com> wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There are currently (at least) two places which address the
>> > compatibility between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
>> >
>> > At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states
>> > that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
>>
>> No it doesn't.
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what you wanted to tell me.
I think he meant that the cited ASF page quotes the FSF - i.e. the ASF
is not making a statement about compatibility here, merely quoting the
FSF.
>>
>> >
>> > According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
>> > the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
>> > software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be
>> > the more appropriate statement.
>> >
>> > I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Markus
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Ben Laurie <be...@links.org>.
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Markus Stier
<ma...@stegmannsystems.com> wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There are currently (at least) two places which address the
>> > compatibility between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
>> >
>> > At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states
>> > that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
>>
>> No it doesn't.
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what you wanted to tell me.
It says the Apache Licence is _not_ compatible with GPL2.
>
>>
>> >
>> > According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
>> > the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
>> > software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be
>> > the more appropriate statement.
>> >
>> > I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Markus
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
>
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AW: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Markus Stier <ma...@stegmannsystems.com>.
> > Hi!
> >
> >
> >
> > There are currently (at least) two places which address the
> > compatibility between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
> >
> > At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states
> > that both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
>
> No it doesn't.
Sorry, I don't understand what you wanted to tell me.
>
> >
> > According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html,
> > the Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
> > software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be
> > the more appropriate statement.
> >
> > I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Markus
>
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Re: Clarify relation between GPL and Apache license
Posted by Ben Laurie <be...@links.org>.
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Markus Stier
<ma...@stegmannsystems.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>
>
> There are currently (at least) two places which address the compatibility
> between GPL 2.x and the Apache license 2.0.
>
> At http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#GPL, ASF states that
> both licenses are compatible. This is misleading or even incorrect.
No it doesn't.
>
> According to http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html, the
> Apache 2.0 license is only compatible to GPL >= 2.x if the GPLed
> software uses Apache'd libraries but not vice versa. This seems to be the
> more appropriate statement.
>
> I suggest that the FAQ page should be updated.
>
> Best
>
> Markus
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