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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Geoff Howard <gh...@crosswalk.com> on 2002/08/16 05:51:08 UTC
[PROPOSAL]Cocoon Demo App Idea
In listening to the various discussions that have been popping up regarding
the desire to create some live demonstration sites to show cocoon's
abilities and begin to establish some best practices examples for web
applications using cocoon, I've been thinking a few things. Bear with me, a
practical suggestion follows.
1) <Not the main point/>Wouldn't a killer app be to demonstrate the use of
cocoon as a better front end to an EJB based application? What about taking
an existing EJB app and showing how quickly it can be placed behind cocoon?
Cocoon gives the code reuse and flexibility on the front end that EJB gives
on the back end. Could one use the actual Pet Store demo?
That led to the practical suggestion, which dovetails with the
Documentation/Wiki issue, and the problem I see with the unfriendly nature
of the list for the casual/new user. ...
2) What about taking an existing good forums application and using it as a
cocoon datasource? With interoperability with newsgroups and email lists,
it could tame the current list "problem". It could be used to add forums
discussion to the bottom of the docs (not on xml.apache.org i understand) ,
enabling a user to right there for all the world to see say "this makes no
sense" or "this has changed since this was written" or "your grammer is
bad".
My suggestion would be "Jive" http://www.jivesoftware.com
- it's not "open source" but source code is provided
- it's not free, but it is free for this use (if i read correctly)
- it's good (check out the current customers - jboss and sun.com among them.
- it's more of an established concept than Wiki (no offense - not trying to
shut that down)
- the "skins" system is not xml/xsl and they are not sold on xsl because
"it's too hard to learn, and it's slow". Their suggestion for a better
system is (get this) the world wide industry standard: Tea.
- although i haven't looked at the code yet, they do have xml export/import
ability (option one), and it's JSP based (option two - create an "xml"
skin), and it's "bean" based (option 3 - marshall the beans in the generator
- i think we need better built in functionality for this any way)
- some other good things that I can't remember right now because it's almost
midnight my time.
I can't offer to head this up because my company's being bought out and i'm
in need of a job in the next few weeks, but I can offer to help (unless my
next employer discourages open source contributions).
I have no connection with Jive software, nor do I know anyone who does by
the way.
Ain't just jive talkin',
Geoff Howard
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Re: Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
> Stephan Michels wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
> >
> >
> <snip/>
> >
> > We want to build a system based on Cocoon/Slide for a e-Learning(I hate
> > this word) solution. We have authors from different universities, which
> > should edit their content via WebDAV and XMLSpy. We also offers to write
> > their content with LaTex. At moment we use only the classes, which are
> > part of the current Cocoon HEAD. So we dont't have a Work Flow Manager, or
> > other part, which have commercial CMS included.
> >
> > http://www.vs-c.de/
>
> Every university nowadays is doing it's own "E-Learning" project ;-)
Yes, on the last Cebit I was impressed how many CMS and E-Learning
solutions exists. They should rename this into "CMS and others".
> > Perhaps we can profit from each other ;-)
>
> Yeah, I am sure: University of Zurich is using Wyona and they also
> have an "e-learning" project. But maybe we should rather discuss that
> off the mailing list.
I know, there was also group from the ETH member from our project.
> >>>But this will only run one machine in this combination. If you want to
> >>>run this in a cluster, you will have problems with the caching of the
> >>>Slide Stores.
> >>>
> >>What kind of cluster do you have in mind?
> >>
> >
> > For example, more than one instances of Cocoon(or the WebDAV Servlet) on
> > different machines combined with a LoadBlancer.
>
> What about replication of the data between the stores on different
> servers? Or did you mean that by caching?
Some stores caches the content, to minimize the interaction with the
back-end. For example, we use in our development the XMLDescriptorStore,
which not noticed, if another store modified the content of the
descriptors. So you must write an Store Proxy to support concurrency
actions, which also handles the transactions.
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Re: Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Stephan Michels wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
<snip/>
>
> We want to build a system based on Cocoon/Slide for a e-Learning(I hate
> this word) solution. We have authors from different universities, which
> should edit their content via WebDAV and XMLSpy. We also offers to write
> their content with LaTex. At moment we use only the classes, which are
> part of the current Cocoon HEAD. So we dont't have a Work Flow Manager, or
> other part, which have commercial CMS included.
>
> http://www.vs-c.de/
Every university nowadays is doing it's own "E-Learning" project ;-)
>
> Perhaps we can profit from each other ;-)
Yeah, I am sure: University of Zurich is using Wyona and they also
have an "e-learning" project. But maybe we should rather discuss that
off the mailing list.
>
>
>>>But this will only run one machine in this combination. If you want to
>>>run this in a cluster, you will have problems with the caching of the
>>>Slide Stores.
>>>
>>What kind of cluster do you have in mind?
>>
>
> For example, more than one instances of Cocoon(or the WebDAV Servlet) on
> different machines combined with a LoadBlancer.
What about replication of the data between the stores on different
servers? Or did you mean that by caching?
Michael
>
>
>>>These problems are solveable, but you must think about it.
>>>
>>Good to know
>>
>
>
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>
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Re: Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
> Stephan Michels wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hi
> >>
> >>After some discussions we decided
> >>that it's best to base Wyona's Content Management API on
> >>the Slide API.
> >>
> >>The have the following architecture in mind:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>+-----------------------------------------+
> >>| CLIENT |
> >>| (HTTP, WebDAV, Other) |
> >>+-----------------------------------------+
> >> /|\ /|\
> >> | |
> >> \|/ |
> >>+---------+---+ |
> >>| COCOON | | |
> >>| +-----+ | |
> >>| | WYONA | |
> >>+---+---------+ |
> >> /|\ /|\ |
> >> | | |
> >> | \|/ \|/
> >> | +-----------------+--------------+----+
> >> | | SLIDE |WebDAV Servlet| |
> >> | | (CM API) +--------------+ |
> >> | +-------------------------------------+
> >> | /|\
> >> | |
> >> \|/ \|/
> >>+-------------------------------------------+
> >>| DATA STORES |
> >>| |
> >>| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
> >>| |Filesystem| |JDBC| |XML:DB| |Other| |
> >>| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
> >>+-------------------------------------------+
> >>
> >
> > Looks like the same architecture as we used at our project, except of the
> > wyona part ;-)
>
>
> Do you have more information on your project available?
We want to build a system based on Cocoon/Slide for a e-Learning(I hate
this word) solution. We have authors from different universities, which
should edit their content via WebDAV and XMLSpy. We also offers to write
their content with LaTex. At moment we use only the classes, which are
part of the current Cocoon HEAD. So we dont't have a Work Flow Manager, or
other part, which have commercial CMS included.
http://www.vs-c.de/
Perhaps we can profit from each other ;-)
> > But this will only run one machine in this combination. If you want to
> > run this in a cluster, you will have problems with the caching of the
> > Slide Stores.
>
> What kind of cluster do you have in mind?
For example, more than one instances of Cocoon(or the WebDAV Servlet) on
different machines combined with a LoadBlancer.
> > These problems are solveable, but you must think about it.
>
> Good to know
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Re: Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Stephan Michels wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
>>Hi
>>
>>After some discussions we decided
>>that it's best to base Wyona's Content Management API on
>>the Slide API.
>>
>>The have the following architecture in mind:
>>
>>
>>
>>+-----------------------------------------+
>>| CLIENT |
>>| (HTTP, WebDAV, Other) |
>>+-----------------------------------------+
>> /|\ /|\
>> | |
>> \|/ |
>>+---------+---+ |
>>| COCOON | | |
>>| +-----+ | |
>>| | WYONA | |
>>+---+---------+ |
>> /|\ /|\ |
>> | | |
>> | \|/ \|/
>> | +-----------------+--------------+----+
>> | | SLIDE |WebDAV Servlet| |
>> | | (CM API) +--------------+ |
>> | +-------------------------------------+
>> | /|\
>> | |
>> \|/ \|/
>>+-------------------------------------------+
>>| DATA STORES |
>>| |
>>| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
>>| |Filesystem| |JDBC| |XML:DB| |Other| |
>>| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
>>+-------------------------------------------+
>>
>
> Looks like the same architecture as we used at our project, except of the
> wyona part ;-)
Do you have more information on your project available?
>
> But this will only run one machine in this combination. If you want to
> run this in a cluster, you will have problems with the caching of the
> Slide Stores.
What kind of cluster do you have in mind?
> These problems are solveable, but you must think about it.
Good to know
Thanks
Michael
>
> My 2 cents, Stephan Michels.
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Hi
>
> After some discussions we decided
> that it's best to base Wyona's Content Management API on
> the Slide API.
>
> The have the following architecture in mind:
>
>
>
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | CLIENT |
> | (HTTP, WebDAV, Other) |
> +-----------------------------------------+
> /|\ /|\
> | |
> \|/ |
> +---------+---+ |
> | COCOON | | |
> | +-----+ | |
> | | WYONA | |
> +---+---------+ |
> /|\ /|\ |
> | | |
> | \|/ \|/
> | +-----------------+--------------+----+
> | | SLIDE |WebDAV Servlet| |
> | | (CM API) +--------------+ |
> | +-------------------------------------+
> | /|\
> | |
> \|/ \|/
> +-------------------------------------------+
> | DATA STORES |
> | |
> | +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
> | |Filesystem| |JDBC| |XML:DB| |Other| |
> | +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
> +-------------------------------------------+
Looks like the same architecture as we used at our project, except of the
wyona part ;-)
But this will only run one machine in this combination. If you want to
run this in a cluster, you will have problems with the caching of the
Slide Stores. These problems are solveable, but you must think about it.
My 2 cents, Stephan Michels.
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Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Hi
After some discussions we decided
that it's best to base Wyona's Content Management API on
the Slide API.
The have the following architecture in mind:
+-----------------------------------------+
| CLIENT |
| (HTTP, WebDAV, Other) |
+-----------------------------------------+
/|\ /|\
| |
\|/ |
+---------+---+ |
| COCOON | | |
| +-----+ | |
| | WYONA | |
+---+---------+ |
/|\ /|\ |
| | |
| \|/ \|/
| +-----------------+--------------+----+
| | SLIDE |WebDAV Servlet| |
| | (CM API) +--------------+ |
| +-------------------------------------+
| /|\
| |
\|/ \|/
+-------------------------------------------+
| DATA STORES |
| |
| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
| |Filesystem| |JDBC| |XML:DB| |Other| |
| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
+-------------------------------------------+
More information can be found at
http://www.wyona.org/docs/xdocs/architecture.html
Our first goal is to refactor and base our "Content/ResourceCreator" on
Slide API.Some use cases can be found here:
http://www.wyona.org/docs/xdocs/create-resource.html
In case you want to join our efforts you are certainly very welcome.
Thanks
Michi
P.S.: Maybe you like to discuss some stuff at the next OSCOM conference
at Berkeley
http://www.oscom.org/conferences/berkeley2002/index.html
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=slide-dev&m=102390630721859&w=2
Sorry, that we didn't know you before our first conference
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=slide-dev&m=101425426112058&w=2
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Wyona based on Slide's CM API
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Hi
After some discussions we decided
that it's best to base Wyona's Content Management API on
the Slide API.
The have the following architecture in mind:
+-----------------------------------------+
| CLIENT |
| (HTTP, WebDAV, Other) |
+-----------------------------------------+
/|\ /|\
| |
\|/ |
+---------+---+ |
| COCOON | | |
| +-----+ | |
| | WYONA | |
+---+---------+ |
/|\ /|\ |
| | |
| \|/ \|/
| +-----------------+--------------+----+
| | SLIDE |WebDAV Servlet| |
| | (CM API) +--------------+ |
| +-------------------------------------+
| /|\
| |
\|/ \|/
+-------------------------------------------+
| DATA STORES |
| |
| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
| |Filesystem| |JDBC| |XML:DB| |Other| |
| +----------+ +----+ +------+ +-----+ |
+-------------------------------------------+
More information can be found at
http://www.wyona.org/docs/xdocs/architecture.html
Our first goal is to refactor and base our "Content/ResourceCreator" on
Slide API.Some use cases can be found here:
http://www.wyona.org/docs/xdocs/create-resource.html
In case you want to join our efforts you are certainly very welcome.
Thanks
Michi
P.S.: Maybe you like to discuss some stuff at the next OSCOM conference
at Berkeley
http://www.oscom.org/conferences/berkeley2002/index.html
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=slide-dev&m=102390630721859&w=2
Sorry, that we didn't know you before our first conference
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=slide-dev&m=101425426112058&w=2
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