Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

[Jonathan Eric Miller <to...@shark.uchicago.edu>]

I'm curious to know if there are a lot of people out there running Tomcat in
standalone mode versus using it with Apache Web Server or some other Web
server?

Previously, I've been using it with Apache Web server on Solaris 8 with
mod_jk. However, as of version 4, it seems like it's pretty stable and it
seems to be getting sufficiently robust. So, I'm planning on running it in
standalone mode. Everything seems to be working fine.

I'm wondering if using it with Apache Web Server really makes that much
difference in terms of performance? My Web application isn't taking a
massive amount of hits, so, I think I should be OK. I was just curious what
others are doing.

Jon

Re: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

["Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>]

Craig R. McClanahan at craigmcc@apache.org wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Dmitri Colebatch wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Rob S. wrote:
>>> files.  For personal sites, I would run standalone.  It's less of a hassle
>>> to configure and maintain.
>> 
>> and run tomcat as root or run a squid accelerator?
>> 
>> 
>> 
> With Tomcat 4 you won't have to run as root to use port 80.  Thus the only
> technical reason (leaving aside performance for the moment) is if your
> application requires other functionality that is built in to Apache but
> not Tomcat).

Even in stand alone mode, there _will_ be a JVM wrapper allowing to run
non-as-root and bind to port 80 (you can try it out, it's in the
jakarta-tomcat-service CVS repo)... Or, you can use mod_webapp and Apache :)

    Pier

RE: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

[Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> With Tomcat 4 you won't have to run as root to use port 80.  Thus the only
> technical reason (leaving aside performance for the moment) is if your
> application requires other functionality that is built in to Apache but
> not Tomcat).

ok - if this is too OT then tell me now and I'll stop, but...

my understanding is that tc4 will start in a similar way to how apache
starts?  using some native code?  I run tc3.2 as part of jboss, and so the
startup is controlled by jboss... I'm assuming that precludes any of the
new options that are used by tc4?  

cheesr
dim

RE: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

["Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Dmitri Colebatch wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Rob S. wrote:
> > files.  For personal sites, I would run standalone.  It's less of a hassle
> > to configure and maintain.
> 
> and run tomcat as root or run a squid accelerator?
> 
> 
> 
With Tomcat 4 you won't have to run as root to use port 80.  Thus the only
technical reason (leaving aside performance for the moment) is if your
application requires other functionality that is built in to Apache but
not Tomcat).

Personally, all the web apps I've ever written are nearly totally dynamic
content, so running with Apache wouldn't help.  Even when there is lots of
static content, consider the fact that web browsers cache pages, and send
an "If-Modified-Since" header on subsequent requests for the same static
resource.  If Tomcat 4 has ever served a particular static resource
before, it can answer with a "Not Modified" response with zero disk
accesses.  Thus, if your static resources are repetitively accessed (by
the same user), any performance difference between Apache and Tomcat is
*totally* irrelevant after the first request.

The bottom line - don't believe *anything* you read about whether it is
faster one way or the other, until you've tried *your* application both
ways.  The old conventional wisdom is not universally accurate any more.

Craig

RE: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

[Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Rob S. wrote:
> files.  For personal sites, I would run standalone.  It's less of a hassle
> to configure and maintain.

and run tomcat as root or run a squid accelerator?

RE: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

["Rob S." <rs...@home.com>]

> I'm curious to know if there are a lot of people out there
> running Tomcat in
> standalone mode versus using it with Apache Web Server or some other Web
> server?

If every single page in your site is a JSP, I've always thought that you
would have diminished performance if you added Apache?  Something I've
thought but never verified...  But Apache might be a good buffer between
lots of incoming connections and Java?

Anyway, if all you have is dynamic content (JSP and servlets), then you will
only suffer a performance hit on the provision of images and javascript
files.  For personal sites, I would run standalone.  It's less of a hassle
to configure and maintain.

- r

Re: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

[Jim Seach <jw...@yahoo.com>]

I have been running Tomcat 3.2.x standalone on Windows NT for about six
months and have never had a problem.  Our applications are totally
dynamic except for a few image files, so I don't think Apache would
help.

As far as reliability goes, at least on NT, it seems that using both
Apache and Tomcat together is less reliable as there is one more thing
to go wrong.  We have another server running this combination, and it
has had to be restarted at least twice, whereas the standalone just
works. (of course it could have been an NT problem ...)

As far as ease of use, count how many questions on this list are about
configuring Tomcat with Apache :-)

Hope this helps,

Jim

--- Jonathan Eric Miller <to...@shark.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> I'm curious to know if there are a lot of people out there running
> Tomcat in
> standalone mode versus using it with Apache Web Server or some other
> Web
> server?
> 
> Previously, I've been using it with Apache Web server on Solaris 8
> with
> mod_jk. However, as of version 4, it seems like it's pretty stable
> and it
> seems to be getting sufficiently robust. So, I'm planning on running
> it in
> standalone mode. Everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> I'm wondering if using it with Apache Web Server really makes that
> much
> difference in terms of performance? My Web application isn't taking a
> massive amount of hits, so, I think I should be OK. I was just
> curious what
> others are doing.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 


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RE: Are many people running Tomcat 4 in standalone mode?

[Deacon Marcus <de...@wwtech.pl>]

Hi,

> From: Jonathan Eric Miller [mailto:tomcat@shark.uchicago.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 3:27 AM
>
> I'm curious to know if there are a lot of people out there
> running Tomcat in
> standalone mode versus using it with Apache Web Server or some other Web
> server?
>
> Previously, I've been using it with Apache Web server on Solaris 8 with
> mod_jk. However, as of version 4, it seems like it's pretty stable and it
> seems to be getting sufficiently robust. So, I'm planning on running it in
> standalone mode. Everything seems to be working fine.
>
> I'm wondering if using it with Apache Web Server really makes that much
> difference in terms of performance? My Web application isn't taking a
> massive amount of hits, so, I think I should be OK. I was just
> curious what
> others are doing.

I'm using Tomcat 4.0 b6 stand-alone, I don't see any performance problems on
low-to-medium load sites (about a dozen) accessed both from internet and
from 10mbit lan.

> Jon

Greetings, deacon Marcus