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Posted to users@camel.apache.org by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com> on 2022/12/27 10:38:28 UTC
Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Hello.
I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed
in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems
fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
(xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one
that can handle complex structured files...
What can we do :( ???
Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
Regards.
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Otavio Rodolfo Piske <an...@gmail.com>.
Unfortunately unmaintained code (even if it has no dependencies) can pose a
risk (in terms of CVEs, attack footprint, etc) to the project and all the
community around it. Removing functionality is not cool, but exposing the
community is even worse IMHO.
There is indeed a process before removing these components:
1. We add a deprecation for them in Jira [1]
2. We wait for the next LTS release
3. They are removed after the LTS release [2]
When we deprecate these components, a few things happen:
1. They are marked as so in the build summary and appropriate classes are
marked as deprecated (so that it's clear to the community contributing that
those components have become deprecated)
2. They automatically get marked as deprecated on the index [3]
3. After removed, they are added to the migration guides [4]
Granted: there's certainly room for improvement, but I am not sure how
feasible it is given the number of contributors, infrastructure, etc.
Links:
1. Examples: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-17667,
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-18455 or
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-17667
2. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-18496
3. https://camel.apache.org/components/3.20.x/index.html
4. https://camel.apache.org/manual/camel-3x-upgrade-guide-3_19.html
On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 12:45 AM Rhuan Henrique <rh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe we need a process to select components to be removed, with the
> community feedback, and alert the developer that the component is
> deprecated after a component is selected to be removed. I'm understanding
> one problem here is the component was removed causing surprise to users.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022, 20:33 ski n <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes it's also good to question why the project is dead. I also
> worked
> > for big retail companies, as well as government organizations, and saw
> > fixed length formats on various occasions. The truth is that these
> formats
> > are outdated and get less and less support, thus fewer libraries and
> tools.
> > This will only get worse. At a certain moment, I think it's better to
> have
> > a good internal discussion than to search for technical solutions on the
> > old path (even if modern solution are less capable and feel like a
> > workaround). Believe me, I have enough of these and know how hard they
> are.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Raymond
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:44 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello again.
> > >
> > > I'd personally like to contribute to bring Beanio back to Camel, but in
> > > the context of our customer's works I'm afraid we can't afford it : our
> > > current job is essentially to create and maintain softwares and
> > > information systems of these business entities, using middlewares and
> > > tools, and not providing them. We're planing a migration from our old
> > > Red-Hat Fuse to more recent, lighter Karaf and Camel stack, and the
> road
> > > seems to be... quite long...
> > >
> > > I've had a look at the camel-beanio's code, and it seems that it should
> > > not be so difficult to fork it or perhaps reuse a part of it,
> > > considering only the beanio features, without any component interface
> > > (avoiding future work to follow Camel versions and changes), with
> > > processors for example. This would imply some changes to our routes,
> but
> > > would limit impacts on the many files mappings and their processing.
> > >
> > > But this is probably not the preferred strategy : a data format in the
> > > Camel's scope is still clearly the best choice, offering a fully
> > > integrated component for all...
> > >
> > > I've noticed, if I'm not wrong, that the old camel-beanio library
> itself
> > > has no external dependency (out of Camel's world) that could be a
> > > concern about security CVEs. This is probably a good news, whatever
> > > solution.
> > >
> > > So I also vote to get beanio back :) !
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > Ephemeris Lappis
> > >
> > > Le 27/12/2022 à 22:16, Andrea Cosentino a écrit :
> > > > If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this
> > is
> > > > good
> > > >
> > > > As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago
> > and
> > > > no further work.
> > > >
> > > > There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork
> to
> > > > consider it again for being in Camel.
> > > >
> > > > Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha
> > scritto:
> > > >
> > > >> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have
> > > numerous
> > > >> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently
> RH
> > > fuse
> > > >> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
> > > >> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
> > > >> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
> > > >> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
> > > >> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
> The
> > > >> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact
> > thatthey
> > > >> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
> > > >> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new
> > versions,
> > > >> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them
> > in
> > > >> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component
> back
> > > in
> > > >> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris
> > > Lappis
> > > >> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very
> > > strange
> > > >> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost
> > > half
> > > >> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still
> used
> > by
> > > >> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my
> opinion, a
> > > >> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just
> > > "mature".>>
> > > >> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le
> > > mar.
> > > >> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit>
> :>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as
> > > some
> > > >> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x>
> > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
> > > >> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm
> very
> > > >> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > >
> in
> > > the
> > > >> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We
> > used
> > > >> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > >
> > > fixed
> > > >> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > >
> > many
> > > >> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > >
> > > (xml,
> > > >> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > >
> > > that
> > > >> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :(
> > ???>
> > > >
> > > >>>>>> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
> > > >> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
> > > >> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cet e-mail a été vérifié par le logiciel antivirus d'Avast.
> > > www.avast.com
> > >
> >
>
--
Otavio R. Piske
http://orpiske.net
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com>.
Hello.
Yes, some kind of process to select what component live or die is a good
idea. In the case of beanio, I'm almost sure that many IT teams still
use it for customers that need its features. Even if old fixed length
formats seem to be obsolete today, retail companies (and more) like our
current customer use them for exchanging data between the back-office
systems of their own entities , point of sales logistic, partners and
suppliers, transport or government, etc... When a possibility exists to
use alternative "modern" formats (XML for example), new schemas are
defined. But in many cases I bet that some of the oldest plain text
definitions will stay for many years, since no functional change is
needed, and thus no reason exist to spend time and money updating legacy
software in all the "business galaxy"... From my point of view this is
where we can see that features are "dead" or not, and not only listing
commits 😉! We notice the same for IT languages in this world where C or
COBOL are probably more present than Java, that many already say "old"
(not dead yet)... I've been using Camel itself for many years,
especially with ServiceMix as our ESB platform : is Camel still young,
or mature, or ... ?
Back to camel-beanio : I've not found detailed documentation about SPI
and integration contracts for data formats : even if I think it's going
to be difficult for us to assume such a work, I'd like to estimate the
workload to get it back as is, with a correct integration in our DSLs
(mostly blueprint, and Java), test framework, etc. Some nice link about
that ?
Thanks again.
Regards.
Ephemeris Lappis
Le 28/12/2022 à 00:45, Rhuan Henrique a écrit :
> Maybe we need a process to select components to be removed, with the
> community feedback, and alert the developer that the component is
> deprecated after a component is selected to be removed. I'm understanding
> one problem here is the component was removed causing surprise to users.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022, 20:33 ski n <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sometimes it's also good to question why the project is dead. I also worked
>> for big retail companies, as well as government organizations, and saw
>> fixed length formats on various occasions. The truth is that these formats
>> are outdated and get less and less support, thus fewer libraries and tools.
>> This will only get worse. At a certain moment, I think it's better to have
>> a good internal discussion than to search for technical solutions on the
>> old path (even if modern solution are less capable and feel like a
>> workaround). Believe me, I have enough of these and know how hard they are.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Raymond
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:44 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
>> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello again.
>>>
>>> I'd personally like to contribute to bring Beanio back to Camel, but in
>>> the context of our customer's works I'm afraid we can't afford it : our
>>> current job is essentially to create and maintain softwares and
>>> information systems of these business entities, using middlewares and
>>> tools, and not providing them. We're planing a migration from our old
>>> Red-Hat Fuse to more recent, lighter Karaf and Camel stack, and the road
>>> seems to be... quite long...
>>>
>>> I've had a look at the camel-beanio's code, and it seems that it should
>>> not be so difficult to fork it or perhaps reuse a part of it,
>>> considering only the beanio features, without any component interface
>>> (avoiding future work to follow Camel versions and changes), with
>>> processors for example. This would imply some changes to our routes, but
>>> would limit impacts on the many files mappings and their processing.
>>>
>>> But this is probably not the preferred strategy : a data format in the
>>> Camel's scope is still clearly the best choice, offering a fully
>>> integrated component for all...
>>>
>>> I've noticed, if I'm not wrong, that the old camel-beanio library itself
>>> has no external dependency (out of Camel's world) that could be a
>>> concern about security CVEs. This is probably a good news, whatever
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> So I also vote to get beanio back :) !
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Ephemeris Lappis
>>>
>>> Le 27/12/2022 à 22:16, Andrea Cosentino a écrit :
>>>> If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this
>> is
>>>> good
>>>>
>>>> As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago
>> and
>>>> no further work.
>>>>
>>>> There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork to
>>>> consider it again for being in Camel.
>>>>
>>>> Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha
>> scritto:
>>>>> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have
>>> numerous
>>>>> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH
>>> fuse
>>>>> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
>>>>> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
>>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
>>>>> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
>>>>> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The
>>>>> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact
>> thatthey
>>>>> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
>>>>> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new
>> versions,
>>>>> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them
>> in
>>>>> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back
>>> in
>>>>> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris
>>> Lappis
>>>>> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very
>>> strange
>>>>> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost
>>> half
>>>>> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used
>> by
>>>>> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a
>>>>> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just
>>> "mature".>>
>>>>> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le
>>> mar.
>>>>> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as
>>> some
>>>>> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
>>>>> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very
>>>>> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in
>>> the
>>>>> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We
>> used
>>>>> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > >
>>> fixed
>>>>> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > >
>> many
>>>>> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > >
>>> (xml,
>>>>> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > >
>>> that
>>>>> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :(
>> ???>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
>>>>> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
>>>>> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
>>> --
>>> Cet e-mail a été vérifié par le logiciel antivirus d'Avast.
>>> www.avast.com
>>>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Rhuan Henrique <rh...@gmail.com>.
Maybe we need a process to select components to be removed, with the
community feedback, and alert the developer that the component is
deprecated after a component is selected to be removed. I'm understanding
one problem here is the component was removed causing surprise to users.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022, 20:33 ski n <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes it's also good to question why the project is dead. I also worked
> for big retail companies, as well as government organizations, and saw
> fixed length formats on various occasions. The truth is that these formats
> are outdated and get less and less support, thus fewer libraries and tools.
> This will only get worse. At a certain moment, I think it's better to have
> a good internal discussion than to search for technical solutions on the
> old path (even if modern solution are less capable and feel like a
> workaround). Believe me, I have enough of these and know how hard they are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Raymond
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:44 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello again.
> >
> > I'd personally like to contribute to bring Beanio back to Camel, but in
> > the context of our customer's works I'm afraid we can't afford it : our
> > current job is essentially to create and maintain softwares and
> > information systems of these business entities, using middlewares and
> > tools, and not providing them. We're planing a migration from our old
> > Red-Hat Fuse to more recent, lighter Karaf and Camel stack, and the road
> > seems to be... quite long...
> >
> > I've had a look at the camel-beanio's code, and it seems that it should
> > not be so difficult to fork it or perhaps reuse a part of it,
> > considering only the beanio features, without any component interface
> > (avoiding future work to follow Camel versions and changes), with
> > processors for example. This would imply some changes to our routes, but
> > would limit impacts on the many files mappings and their processing.
> >
> > But this is probably not the preferred strategy : a data format in the
> > Camel's scope is still clearly the best choice, offering a fully
> > integrated component for all...
> >
> > I've noticed, if I'm not wrong, that the old camel-beanio library itself
> > has no external dependency (out of Camel's world) that could be a
> > concern about security CVEs. This is probably a good news, whatever
> > solution.
> >
> > So I also vote to get beanio back :) !
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > Ephemeris Lappis
> >
> > Le 27/12/2022 à 22:16, Andrea Cosentino a écrit :
> > > If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this
> is
> > > good
> > >
> > > As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago
> and
> > > no further work.
> > >
> > > There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork to
> > > consider it again for being in Camel.
> > >
> > > Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha
> scritto:
> > >
> > >> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have
> > numerous
> > >> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH
> > fuse
> > >> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
> > >> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
> > >> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
> > >> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
> > >> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The
> > >> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact
> thatthey
> > >> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
> > >> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new
> versions,
> > >> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them
> in
> > >> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back
> > in
> > >> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris
> > Lappis
> > >> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very
> > strange
> > >> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost
> > half
> > >> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used
> by
> > >> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a
> > >> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just
> > "mature".>>
> > >> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le
> > mar.
> > >> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :>
> > >>
> > >>> Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as
> > some
> > >> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x>
> >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
> > >> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very
> > >> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in
> > the
> > >> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We
> used
> > >> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > >
> > fixed
> > >> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > >
> many
> > >> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > >
> > (xml,
> > >> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > >
> > that
> > >> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :(
> ???>
> > >
> > >>>>>> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
> > >> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
> > >> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
> >
> > --
> > Cet e-mail a été vérifié par le logiciel antivirus d'Avast.
> > www.avast.com
> >
>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by ski n <ra...@gmail.com>.
Sometimes it's also good to question why the project is dead. I also worked
for big retail companies, as well as government organizations, and saw
fixed length formats on various occasions. The truth is that these formats
are outdated and get less and less support, thus fewer libraries and tools.
This will only get worse. At a certain moment, I think it's better to have
a good internal discussion than to search for technical solutions on the
old path (even if modern solution are less capable and feel like a
workaround). Believe me, I have enough of these and know how hard they are.
Regards,
Raymond
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:44 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello again.
>
> I'd personally like to contribute to bring Beanio back to Camel, but in
> the context of our customer's works I'm afraid we can't afford it : our
> current job is essentially to create and maintain softwares and
> information systems of these business entities, using middlewares and
> tools, and not providing them. We're planing a migration from our old
> Red-Hat Fuse to more recent, lighter Karaf and Camel stack, and the road
> seems to be... quite long...
>
> I've had a look at the camel-beanio's code, and it seems that it should
> not be so difficult to fork it or perhaps reuse a part of it,
> considering only the beanio features, without any component interface
> (avoiding future work to follow Camel versions and changes), with
> processors for example. This would imply some changes to our routes, but
> would limit impacts on the many files mappings and their processing.
>
> But this is probably not the preferred strategy : a data format in the
> Camel's scope is still clearly the best choice, offering a fully
> integrated component for all...
>
> I've noticed, if I'm not wrong, that the old camel-beanio library itself
> has no external dependency (out of Camel's world) that could be a
> concern about security CVEs. This is probably a good news, whatever
> solution.
>
> So I also vote to get beanio back :) !
>
> Regards.
>
> Ephemeris Lappis
>
> Le 27/12/2022 à 22:16, Andrea Cosentino a écrit :
> > If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this is
> > good
> >
> > As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago and
> > no further work.
> >
> > There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork to
> > consider it again for being in Camel.
> >
> > Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >
> >> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have
> numerous
> >> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH
> fuse
> >> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
> >> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
> >> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
> >> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
> >> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The
> >> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact thatthey
> >> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
> >> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new versions,
> >> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them in
> >> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back
> in
> >> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris
> Lappis
> >> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very
> strange
> >> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost
> half
> >> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used by
> >> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a
> >> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just
> "mature".>>
> >> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le
> mar.
> >> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :>
> >>
> >>> Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as
> some
> >> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x> >>
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
> >> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very
> >> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in
> the
> >> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We used
> >> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > >
> fixed
> >> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > > many
> >> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > >
> (xml,
> >> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > >
> that
> >> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :( ???>
> >
> >>>>>> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
> >> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
> >> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
>
> --
> Cet e-mail a été vérifié par le logiciel antivirus d'Avast.
> www.avast.com
>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com>.
Hello again.
I'd personally like to contribute to bring Beanio back to Camel, but in
the context of our customer's works I'm afraid we can't afford it : our
current job is essentially to create and maintain softwares and
information systems of these business entities, using middlewares and
tools, and not providing them. We're planing a migration from our old
Red-Hat Fuse to more recent, lighter Karaf and Camel stack, and the road
seems to be... quite long...
I've had a look at the camel-beanio's code, and it seems that it should
not be so difficult to fork it or perhaps reuse a part of it,
considering only the beanio features, without any component interface
(avoiding future work to follow Camel versions and changes), with
processors for example. This would imply some changes to our routes, but
would limit impacts on the many files mappings and their processing.
But this is probably not the preferred strategy : a data format in the
Camel's scope is still clearly the best choice, offering a fully
integrated component for all...
I've noticed, if I'm not wrong, that the old camel-beanio library itself
has no external dependency (out of Camel's world) that could be a
concern about security CVEs. This is probably a good news, whatever
solution.
So I also vote to get beanio back :) !
Regards.
Ephemeris Lappis
Le 27/12/2022 à 22:16, Andrea Cosentino a écrit :
> If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this is
> good
>
> As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago and
> no further work.
>
> There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork to
> consider it again for being in Camel.
>
> Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have numerous
>> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH fuse
>> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
>> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
>> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
>> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
>> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The
>> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact thatthey
>> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
>> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new versions,
>> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them in
>> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in
>> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis
>> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very strange
>> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost half
>> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used by
>> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a
>> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just "mature".>>
>> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le mar.
>> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :> >>
>>> Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some
>> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x> >> >>
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
>> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very
>> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in the
>> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We used
>> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > > fixed
>> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > > many
>> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > > (xml,
>> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > > that
>> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :( ???> >
>>>>>> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
>> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
>> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
--
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Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com>.
Willingness is there, time is always the bugger. I'll review our release schedule see when we might get to Camel 3. That will help set my priorities. Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 1:16 PM (GMT-08:00) To: users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this isgoodAs of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago andno further work.There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork toconsider it again for being in Camel.Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have numerous> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH fuse> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact thatthey> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new versions,> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them in> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very strange> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost half> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used by> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just "mature".>>> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le mar.> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :> >>> > Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x> >> >>> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in the> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We used> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > > fixed> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > > many> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > > (xml,> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > > that> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :( ???> >> >> > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
If you have time and there is a willing to maintain the library, this is
good
As of today, the only updated release is milestone from 18 months ago and
no further work.
There should be a community of developers working on the beanio fork to
consider it again for being in Camel.
Il mar 27 dic 2022, 21:39 kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have numerous
> flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH fuse
> I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some
> time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
> -------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <
> ancosen@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To:
> users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The
> problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact thatthey
> rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non
> maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new versions,
> going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them in
> codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in
> the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis
> <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very strange
> to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost half
> of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used by
> many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a
> stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just "mature".>>
> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le mar.
> 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :> >>
> > Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some
> other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x> >> >>
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> >
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very
> surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in the
> last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We used
> BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > > fixed
> length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > > many
> purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > > (xml,
> csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > > that
> can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :( ???> >
> >> > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > >
> Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> >
> @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com>.
Hello.
We also use bindy for delimited formats or fixed columns, but only with
rather simpler structures (homogeneous lines in most cases).
BeanIo mapping is richer to define several levels of groups and records,
and let's separate the format definition from the code, more or less the
same way we do for XML files using XSD schemas, or JSON schema as well.
Thanks anyway : any suggestion is welcome !
Regards.
Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 14:32, Maarten Donderwinkel <
maarten.donderwinkel@aiden.eu> a écrit :
> For fixed length projects I’ve used camel-bindy in the past
>
>
> https://camel.apache.org/components/3.18.x/dataformats/bindy-dataformat.html#_4_fixedlengthrecord
>
>
>
> I don’t know if this component suits your use case as I’ve never used
> BeanIO, but given that you refer to fixedlength records I hope it can serve
> as an alternative.
>
>
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groet | Kind Regards | Meilleures salutations | Mit
> freundlichen Grüβen,
>
> Maarten Donderwinkel
>
> Aiden www.aiden.eu +31 (0) 88 060 5111
> Locatie Boxtel Kastanjelaan 3 | 5283 WE Boxtel +31 (0) 88 060 5103
> Contact E-mail: maarten.donderwinkel@aiden.eu +31 (0) 6 8683 0832
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/weareAiden.eu>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiden-eu/>
> <https://twitter.com/weareAiden>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcLccRfot11DrZLNhlAS8fA>
> <https://www.aiden.eu/> <https://www.twitter.com/user_name_here>
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/user_name_here>
>
> *From: *Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 27 December 2022 at 12:30
> *To: *users@camel.apache.org <us...@camel.apache.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
>
> And only if beanio become active again and do new releases we can consider
> adding it back.
>
> There is a 3.0 M1 release but its 1.5 years old, and only a few commits
> since that time. You can reach out to beanio on github
> and see if the maintainer can become active again, or you can ask if you
> can help out the project and make v3 a GA release
> and active maintained so it can come back into Camel.
>
> Yes I think a great flat file/csv/kvp project is very usable but it's sadly
> hard to do in open source as nobody sponsors such projects.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:26 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Yes you can take the old code and build it is a custom component and use
> > with camel
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:20 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> I do agree about CVEs, that are also an important concern in our jobs,
> >> and I also know the price of maintaining complex systems with many
> >> components from many origins. And Camel is exactly this kind of
> >> system, built upon hundreds of components that make it a quite rich
> >> integration platform for enterprises that use both the most recent
> >> cloud aware applications, and very old file formats or protocols...
> >>
> >> Well, is there any way to integrate the "old" beanio component "our
> >> way" as a custom data format, and thus a solution not to stop our
> >> migration plan right now ?
> >>
> >> Thanks again.
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >>
> >> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 12:03, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a
> >> écrit :
> >> >
> >> > The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact
> that
> >> > they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
> >> >
> >> > So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
> >> >
> >> > Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going
> to
> >> > include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
> >> >
> >> > So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the
> >> camel
> >> > codebase.
> >> >
> >> > Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
> >> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >> >
> >> > > Hello.
> >> > >
> >> > > It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
> >> > > alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
> >> > > length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems,
> and
> >> > > rely on beanio.
> >> > >
> >> > > In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
> >> > > "dead", just "mature".
> >> > >
> >> > > Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards.
> >> > >
> >> > > Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a
> >> écrit
> >> > > :
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi
> >> > > >
> >> > > > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some
> >> other
> >> > > > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
> >> > > > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Hello.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been
> >> removed
> >> > > > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy
> >> systems
> >> > > > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it
> >> for
> >> > > > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file
> >> formats
> >> > > > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the
> only
> >> one
> >> > > > > that can handle complex structured files...
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > What can we do :( ???
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Regards.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Claus Ibsen
> >> > > > -----------------
> >> > > > @davsclaus
> >> > > > Camel in Action 2:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
> >> > >
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Claus Ibsen
> > -----------------
> > @davsclaus
> > Camel in Action 2:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Maarten Donderwinkel <ma...@aiden.eu>.
For fixed length projects I’ve used camel-bindy in the past
https://camel.apache.org/components/3.18.x/dataformats/bindy-dataformat.html#_4_fixedlengthrecord
I don’t know if this component suits your use case as I’ve never used BeanIO, but given that you refer to fixedlength records I hope it can serve as an alternative.
Met vriendelijke groet | Kind Regards | Meilleures salutations | Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Maarten Donderwinkel
Aiden www.aiden.eu [data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAB0AAAAdCAMAAABhTZc9AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACxjwv8YQUAAAAzUExURQAAAEBQgDhQeDpQejxQeDlTeTpSeDtSeTpSeDtSeTtSejxSeTtReTtTeTtSeTtSeTtSeaJ0QfYAAAAQdFJOUwAQIDBAUGBwgI+fr7/P3+8jGoKKAAAACXBIWXMAABcRAAAXEQHKJvM/AAAAoUlEQVQ4T6WSWw7DIAwE7VACtDRw/9MW7C1Kw0OKOl+wI0C2ob9hb7AaYXPesexgT26uXznOdbl2oUsOvSE5I7bqxEjO1JtFj44Sq00P7C88xXrsrmxi06xdenim+VhqI3aqURV0V7c+rZpT19TYtCHf9Zzf0O6IC10Y6TLnL6KvnQ2Qqh3Sxg4pA+3nadrjAckvVkuLo59QYevD8IvdgegD6EkL94fs/OQAAAAASUVORK5CYII=] +31 (0) 88 060 5111
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From: Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 27 December 2022 at 12:30
To: users@camel.apache.org <us...@camel.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
And only if beanio become active again and do new releases we can consider
adding it back.
There is a 3.0 M1 release but its 1.5 years old, and only a few commits
since that time. You can reach out to beanio on github
and see if the maintainer can become active again, or you can ask if you
can help out the project and make v3 a GA release
and active maintained so it can come back into Camel.
Yes I think a great flat file/csv/kvp project is very usable but it's sadly
hard to do in open source as nobody sponsors such projects.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:26 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Yes you can take the old code and build it is a custom component and use
> with camel
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:20 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> I do agree about CVEs, that are also an important concern in our jobs,
>> and I also know the price of maintaining complex systems with many
>> components from many origins. And Camel is exactly this kind of
>> system, built upon hundreds of components that make it a quite rich
>> integration platform for enterprises that use both the most recent
>> cloud aware applications, and very old file formats or protocols...
>>
>> Well, is there any way to integrate the "old" beanio component "our
>> way" as a custom data format, and thus a solution not to stop our
>> migration plan right now ?
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 12:03, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>> >
>> > The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact that
>> > they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
>> >
>> > So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
>> >
>> > Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going to
>> > include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
>> >
>> > So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the
>> camel
>> > codebase.
>> >
>> > Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
>> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> >
>> > > Hello.
>> > >
>> > > It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
>> > > alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
>> > > length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
>> > > rely on beanio.
>> > >
>> > > In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
>> > > "dead", just "mature".
>> > >
>> > > Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
>> > >
>> > > Regards.
>> > >
>> > > Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit
>> > > :
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi
>> > > >
>> > > > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some
>> other
>> > > > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
>> > > > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been
>> removed
>> > > > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy
>> systems
>> > > > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it
>> for
>> > > > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file
>> formats
>> > > > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only
>> one
>> > > > > that can handle complex structured files...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What can we do :( ???
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Regards.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Claus Ibsen
>> > > > -----------------
>> > > > @davsclaus
>> > > > Camel in Action 2: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
>> > >
>>
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
>
--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
@davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manning.com%2Fibsen2&data=05%7C01%7Cmaarten.donderwinkel%40aiden.eu%7C64877163044746fe4aac08dae7fdc402%7Cb9d83e0e2e894f4e9c2bbe3df185e1af%7C0%7C0%7C638077374349923905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BhZ%2Bm%2FxEtaFpg2w%2BL5GlgF5WLUAgM32k2CHjL69KOog%3D&reserved=0
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>.
And only if beanio become active again and do new releases we can consider
adding it back.
There is a 3.0 M1 release but its 1.5 years old, and only a few commits
since that time. You can reach out to beanio on github
and see if the maintainer can become active again, or you can ask if you
can help out the project and make v3 a GA release
and active maintained so it can come back into Camel.
Yes I think a great flat file/csv/kvp project is very usable but it's sadly
hard to do in open source as nobody sponsors such projects.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:26 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Yes you can take the old code and build it is a custom component and use
> with camel
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:20 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> I do agree about CVEs, that are also an important concern in our jobs,
>> and I also know the price of maintaining complex systems with many
>> components from many origins. And Camel is exactly this kind of
>> system, built upon hundreds of components that make it a quite rich
>> integration platform for enterprises that use both the most recent
>> cloud aware applications, and very old file formats or protocols...
>>
>> Well, is there any way to integrate the "old" beanio component "our
>> way" as a custom data format, and thus a solution not to stop our
>> migration plan right now ?
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 12:03, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>> >
>> > The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact that
>> > they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
>> >
>> > So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
>> >
>> > Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going to
>> > include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
>> >
>> > So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the
>> camel
>> > codebase.
>> >
>> > Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
>> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> >
>> > > Hello.
>> > >
>> > > It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
>> > > alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
>> > > length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
>> > > rely on beanio.
>> > >
>> > > In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
>> > > "dead", just "mature".
>> > >
>> > > Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
>> > >
>> > > Regards.
>> > >
>> > > Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a
>> écrit
>> > > :
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi
>> > > >
>> > > > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some
>> other
>> > > > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
>> > > > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been
>> removed
>> > > > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy
>> systems
>> > > > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it
>> for
>> > > > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file
>> formats
>> > > > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only
>> one
>> > > > > that can handle complex structured files...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What can we do :( ???
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Regards.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Claus Ibsen
>> > > > -----------------
>> > > > @davsclaus
>> > > > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>> > >
>>
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>
--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
@davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Yes you can take the old code and build it is a custom component and use
with camel
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:20 PM Ephemeris Lappis <
ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I do agree about CVEs, that are also an important concern in our jobs,
> and I also know the price of maintaining complex systems with many
> components from many origins. And Camel is exactly this kind of
> system, built upon hundreds of components that make it a quite rich
> integration platform for enterprises that use both the most recent
> cloud aware applications, and very old file formats or protocols...
>
> Well, is there any way to integrate the "old" beanio component "our
> way" as a custom data format, and thus a solution not to stop our
> migration plan right now ?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 12:03, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
> >
> > The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact that
> > they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
> >
> > So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
> >
> > Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going to
> > include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
> >
> > So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the
> camel
> > codebase.
> >
> > Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
> > > alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
> > > length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
> > > rely on beanio.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
> > > "dead", just "mature".
> > >
> > > Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a
> écrit
> > > :
> > > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other
> > > > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
> > > > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been
> removed
> > > > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
> > > > >
> > > > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy
> systems
> > > > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
> > > > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
> > > > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only
> one
> > > > > that can handle complex structured files...
> > > > >
> > > > > What can we do :( ???
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Claus Ibsen
> > > > -----------------
> > > > @davsclaus
> > > > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
> > >
>
--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
@davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com>.
Hello.
I do agree about CVEs, that are also an important concern in our jobs,
and I also know the price of maintaining complex systems with many
components from many origins. And Camel is exactly this kind of
system, built upon hundreds of components that make it a quite rich
integration platform for enterprises that use both the most recent
cloud aware applications, and very old file formats or protocols...
Well, is there any way to integrate the "old" beanio component "our
way" as a custom data format, and thus a solution not to stop our
migration plan right now ?
Thanks again.
Regards.
Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 12:03, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact that
> they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
>
> So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
>
> Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going to
> include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
>
> So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the camel
> codebase.
>
> Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
> > alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
> > length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
> > rely on beanio.
> >
> > In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
> > "dead", just "mature".
> >
> > Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit
> > :
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other
> > > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
> > > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello.
> > > >
> > > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed
> > > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
> > > >
> > > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems
> > > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
> > > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
> > > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one
> > > > that can handle complex structured files...
> > > >
> > > > What can we do :( ???
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
> > > >
> > > > Regards.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Claus Ibsen
> > > -----------------
> > > @davsclaus
> > > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
> >
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by kilidarria <ki...@gmail.com>.
I would vote to bring this back and maintaining it. We also have numerous flat files with complex record structures defined. We are currently RH fuse I'm not sure what their upgrade plans are for Camel 3 so I have some time. MarciSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> Date: 12/27/22 3:03 AM (GMT-08:00) To: users@camel.apache.org Subject: Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact thatthey rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going toinclude weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the camelcodebase.Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com> ha scritto:> Hello.>> It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy> alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed> length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and> rely on beanio.>> In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not> "dead", just "mature".>> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?>> Regards.>> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit> :> >> > Hi> >> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x> >> >> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello.> > >> > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed> > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?> > >> > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems> > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for> > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats> > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one> > > that can handle complex structured files...> > >> > > What can we do :( ???> > >> > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.> > >> > > Regards.> > >> >> >> > --> > Claus Ibsen> > -----------------> > @davsclaus> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
The problem with this kind of dead libraries is related to the fact that
they rapidly become affected by multiple CVEs.
So being mature and non maintained, it's a problem.
Since nobody updates or release new versions, going ahead we're going to
include weak libraries if we maintain them in codebase.
So, I don't think there is any hope to see the component back in the camel
codebase.
Il giorno mar 27 dic 2022 alle ore 12:00 Ephemeris Lappis <
ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> Hello.
>
> It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
> alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
> length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
> rely on beanio.
>
> In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
> "dead", just "mature".
>
> Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
>
> Regards.
>
> Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit
> :
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other
> > components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
> > ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed
> > > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
> > >
> > > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems
> > > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
> > > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
> > > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one
> > > that can handle complex structured files...
> > >
> > > What can we do :( ???
> > >
> > > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Claus Ibsen
> > -----------------
> > @davsclaus
> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Ephemeris Lappis <ep...@gmail.com>.
Hello.
It seems very strange to me to remove a component when no easy
alternative exists. Almost half of our about 100 projects use fixed
length files that are still used by many companies legacy systems, and
rely on beanio.
In my opinion, a stable component that has no recent change is not
"dead", just "mature".
Can we hope it gets back to a future Camel release ?
Regards.
Le mar. 27 déc. 2022 à 11:47, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hi
>
> BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other
> components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
> ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed
> > in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
> >
> > We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems
> > fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
> > many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
> > (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one
> > that can handle complex structured files...
> >
> > What can we do :( ???
> >
> > Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
Re: Camel 3.X / DataFormat BeanIO
Posted by Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>.
Hi
BeanIO is a dead/not-active project and removed in 3.x, as some other
components - its documented in the upgrade guide to 3.17.x
On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 11:38 AM Ephemeris Lappis <
ephemeris.lappis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I'm very surprised to see that the data format BEANIO has been removed
> in the last Camel versions. Isn't any replacement component ?
>
> We used BeanIO in many exchanges that handle enterprise legacy systems
> fixed length formatted files (big retail companies still use it for
> many purposes). I know alternative components for many file formats
> (xml, csv, etc.), but for fixed length, BeanIO is really the only one
> that can handle complex structured files...
>
> What can we do :( ???
>
> Thanks for any idea that can save our migration plans.
>
> Regards.
>
--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
@davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2