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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com> on 2016/10/04 17:09:25 UTC
Jira or Bugzilla?
Hi at all
I'm a bit confused. Bertrand requested a JIRA space for NetBeans.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12704 .
I'm a bit surprised. I believed that NetBeans will get there own
Bugzilla instance like Apache OpenOffice. The Proposal say nothing
about the Issue Tracking Software. So what do you think.
Regards Raphael
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do I need a separate account for the Apache Jira?...
Yes, unfortunately.
-Bertrand
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>.
Do I need a separate account for the Apache Jira?
Sven
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> plugins those might not be available here.
>
> This is something the Oracle server admins will have to confirm...
>
> It doesn't *seem* very custom. There are some bots that post build info on
> affected issues, but I assume any Bugzilla instance supports that.
>
>
> --emi
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>
> > wrote:
> > > ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any
> > open source, is
> > > are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial
> > product?...
> >
> > That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
> > to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
> > conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
> > data.
> >
> > One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> > available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> > So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> > plugins those might not be available here.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
>
--
Sven Reimers
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* Java Champion
* NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
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Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Bruno Flávio <br...@apache.org>.
Hello,
I personally don't find Bugzilla very user-friendly. Fortunately we also
have the NetBeans Dashboard [1], which is in fact the main tool I use to
filter and display issue lists.
Perhaps most of it's functionality (Bugzilla + dashboard) is already
present in JIRA? Anyway, if we continue using BZ I really think we
should find a way to keep the Dashboard available.
1. http://services.netbeans.org/dashboard/web/
-Bruno
On 05/10/16 18:53, Emilian Bold wrote:
>> One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> plugins those might not be available here.
>
> This is something the Oracle server admins will have to confirm...
>
> It doesn't *seem* very custom. There are some bots that post build info on
> affected issues, but I assume any Bugzilla instance supports that.
>
>
> --emi
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>
>> wrote:
>>> ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any
>> open source, is
>>> are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial
>> product?...
>>
>> That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
>> to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
>> conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
>> data.
>>
>> One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
>> available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
>> So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
>> plugins those might not be available here.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
plugins those might not be available here.
This is something the Oracle server admins will have to confirm...
It doesn't *seem* very custom. There are some bots that post build info on
affected issues, but I assume any Bugzilla instance supports that.
--emi
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>
> wrote:
> > ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any
> open source, is
> > are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial
> product?...
>
> That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
> to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
> conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
> data.
>
> One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> plugins those might not be available here.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>.
I forgot ... I was referring to the following link when asking if something
was applicable
https://confluence.atlassian.com/adminjiraserver071/importing-data-from-bugzilla-802592828.html
On Oct 6, 2016 6:34 AM, "Wade Chandler" <co...@wadechandler.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2016 12:50 PM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>
> wrote:
> > > ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any
> open source, is
> > > are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial
> product?...
> >
> > That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
> > to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
> > conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
> > data.
> >
> > One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> > available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> > So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> > plugins those might not be available here.
> >
>
> Yes directly owning the data as well as a version of Jira certainly makes
> it easier. Having an install means you won't suddenly go down on any
> corporate shutdown for whatever reason, and having your data, you can
> migrate it however you need. Thanks for the sanity check Bertrand.
>
> I think if we are using Jira we will want to come up with a plan for
> migrating issues to Jira from BZ though as we have many open and recently
> fixed issues. Too, a lot of folks will be using an older version of the
> IDE, find a bug which has long been fixed, and look to see if this is the
> case, and if possible to update. That history is project gold :-)
>
> Maybe we can see if this is applicable. If not all the right pieces, maybe
> we can update BZ or MySQL and then do it. Maybe it isn't applicable for
> other reasons or the version of Jira. In that case, and if we can't get
> around those obstacles with upgrades etc, maybe if the community has access
> to both datasets we can get something working (is that possible?). Maybe we
> manually bring in all open issues, and we standup, as someone suggested, a
> read-only copy of BZ. It is better to have a single source of truth in my
> opinion, but if we must we must.
>
> Thanks
>
> Wade
>
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>.
On Oct 5, 2016 12:50 PM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>
wrote:
> > ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any
open source, is
> > are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial
product?...
>
> That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
> to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
> conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
> data.
>
> One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
> available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
> So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
> plugins those might not be available here.
>
Yes directly owning the data as well as a version of Jira certainly makes
it easier. Having an install means you won't suddenly go down on any
corporate shutdown for whatever reason, and having your data, you can
migrate it however you need. Thanks for the sanity check Bertrand.
I think if we are using Jira we will want to come up with a plan for
migrating issues to Jira from BZ though as we have many open and recently
fixed issues. Too, a lot of folks will be using an older version of the
IDE, find a bug which has long been fixed, and look to see if this is the
case, and if possible to update. That history is project gold :-)
Maybe we can see if this is applicable. If not all the right pieces, maybe
we can update BZ or MySQL and then do it. Maybe it isn't applicable for
other reasons or the version of Jira. In that case, and if we can't get
around those obstacles with upgrades etc, maybe if the community has access
to both datasets we can get something working (is that possible?). Maybe we
manually bring in all open issues, and we standup, as someone suggested, a
read-only copy of BZ. It is better to have a single source of truth in my
opinion, but if we must we must.
Thanks
Wade
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com> wrote:
> ...Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any open source, is
> are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial product?...
That's a risk indeed, but a lot of ASF projects use Jira so if we had
to change there would be a lot of manpower available for any required
conversion. The Jira instance is hosted at the ASF so we do own the
data.
One thing that I forgot to mention is that customizations are not
available for those services AFAIK, all projects use a shared setup.
So if the current NetBeans bugzilla uses custom configurations or
plugins those might not be available here.
-Bertrand
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>.
On 2016-10-05 03:56 (-0400), Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> > ...The incubation proposal only mentions "Issue Tracking" as required resource,
> > and typically new podlings choose Jira over Bugzilla...
>
> Yes - I requested https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS as I
> suppose we'll need to coordinate things soon, but that doesn't mean
> we'll use it for the existing NetBeans bugzilla tickets.
>
> My preference would be to move to jira as that's mainstream at the
> ASF, but that's a decisions to be made by this project's community.
>
> I did some bugzilla -> jira migration some time ago, which worked
> well, might have the code somewhere if there's interest.
>
> Note that we have Daniel Gruno from infra as a mentor so we'll be able
> to get good advice on that side.
>
Something that does seem odd to me about using Jira at ASF, or any open source, is are we then not locked into whatever happens with the commercial product? With BZ do we own the code and data? That seems more open. I agree Jiras interface is better, but BZ isn't bad. I am torn on this topic from the open standpoint. Same it seems as infra talks about how a project carries on if an agreement ends, does this issue not exist with Jira?
Thanks
Wade.
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> ...The incubation proposal only mentions "Issue Tracking" as required resource,
> and typically new podlings choose Jira over Bugzilla...
Yes - I requested https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS as I
suppose we'll need to coordinate things soon, but that doesn't mean
we'll use it for the existing NetBeans bugzilla tickets.
My preference would be to move to jira as that's mainstream at the
ASF, but that's a decisions to be made by this project's community.
I did some bugzilla -> jira migration some time ago, which worked
well, might have the code somewhere if there's interest.
Note that we have Daniel Gruno from infra as a mentor so we'll be able
to get good advice on that side.
-Bertrand
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
The incubation proposal only mentions "Issue Tracking" as required resource,
and typically new podlings choose Jira over Bugzilla.
I'm not at infra and I don't know which one is preferred from ASF/infra POV, but
I think only a handful of ASF projects nowadays still use Bugzilla.
However the need to migrate or preserve existing issues is evident, and
for that using Bugzilla @ASF might be more practical.
Or maybe migrate and 'archive' the exiting issues to a frozen Bugzilla
instance while starting 'fresh' at the ASF using Jira is an option?
Personally I never enjoyed working with Bugzilla and from a usability POV
I'd choose Jira any time, but this is clearly something for the project
to further discuss and decide about.
I see 3 options:
a) only use Bugzilla, drop the new Jira NETBEANS project
b) only use JIRA, try to migrate/preserve existing Bugzilla issues to Jira
(if feasible, need help/confirmation from infra)
c) preserve and archive existing Bugzilla issues at ASF, use Jira from now on
(possibly with the wish to still refer/link to archived Bugzilla issues)
Ate
On 2016-10-04 19:27, Raphael Bircher wrote:
> Hi Emilian
>
> Is far I know, we have had the discussion to move to Jira at the
> OpenOffice project. But the problem was the import of the old data.
> Anyway, we have now a Jira space at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS/ .Maybe it's not bad,
> to have something for the transistance. I propose to use the old
> Issuetracker for all Program related stuff, and use the Jira instance
> for all the moving work.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't care what we use in the future but we have to migrate or preserve
>> the existing Bugzilla issues since they have a lot of historical context
>> and technical discussions in them.
>>
>> Indeed, the simplest solution is a dedicated Bugzilla instance like
>> OpenOffice.
>>
>>
>> --emi
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi at all
>>>
>>> I'm a bit confused. Bertrand requested a JIRA space for NetBeans.
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12704 .
>>>
>>> I'm a bit surprised. I believed that NetBeans will get there own
>>> Bugzilla instance like Apache OpenOffice. The Proposal say nothing
>>> about the Issue Tracking Software. So what do you think.
>>>
>>> Regards Raphael
>>>
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Emilian
Is far I know, we have had the discussion to move to Jira at the
OpenOffice project. But the problem was the import of the old data.
Anyway, we have now a Jira space at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS/ .Maybe it's not bad,
to have something for the transistance. I propose to use the old
Issuetracker for all Program related stuff, and use the Jira instance
for all the moving work.
Regards Raphael
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't care what we use in the future but we have to migrate or preserve
> the existing Bugzilla issues since they have a lot of historical context
> and technical discussions in them.
>
> Indeed, the simplest solution is a dedicated Bugzilla instance like
> OpenOffice.
>
>
> --emi
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi at all
>>
>> I'm a bit confused. Bertrand requested a JIRA space for NetBeans.
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12704 .
>>
>> I'm a bit surprised. I believed that NetBeans will get there own
>> Bugzilla instance like Apache OpenOffice. The Proposal say nothing
>> about the Issue Tracking Software. So what do you think.
>>
>> Regards Raphael
>>
Re: Jira or Bugzilla?
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
I don't care what we use in the future but we have to migrate or preserve
the existing Bugzilla issues since they have a lot of historical context
and technical discussions in them.
Indeed, the simplest solution is a dedicated Bugzilla instance like
OpenOffice.
--emi
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi at all
>
> I'm a bit confused. Bertrand requested a JIRA space for NetBeans.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12704 .
>
> I'm a bit surprised. I believed that NetBeans will get there own
> Bugzilla instance like Apache OpenOffice. The Proposal say nothing
> about the Issue Tracking Software. So what do you think.
>
> Regards Raphael
>