graduation charter details

[Josh Wills <jw...@cloudera.com>]

Hey all,

I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
baseline for our own vote:

http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5

My thought was to include all current committers as the initial members.

For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am firmly of
the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that was
required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like the
honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.

With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work on you
that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
certainly understand.

Josh

-- 
Director of Data Science
Cloudera <http://www.cloudera.com>
Twitter: @josh_wills <http://twitter.com/josh_wills>

Re: graduation charter details

[Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de>]

Thank you, you almost convinced me - but I still decline :)

You're perfect for the job, just take it and let's get this project
graduated ;-)

Regards,
  Matthias

On Friday, 2013-02-01, Josh Wills wrote:
> So my reason for nominating Matthias as the PMC chair was based on two
> things. First, I felt that he deserved it and would do a better job of it
> than anyone else. Second, and I'm sure I'm going to embarrass him a little
> bit by saying this, but I feel that he represents all that is awesome about
> the ASF: someone who joins a community around code, make substantial
> contributions, and achieve a leadership position in the community through
> merit. That is the ASF at its best, and that is exactly what I wanted the
> Crunch community to become when we first took the project to the incubator.
> 
> At the end of the day, the PMC chair is largely a symbolic thing: the
> overall direction for the project is driven by the consensus of the PMC
> members. Given that it's symbolic, I think that we should choose someone
> who symbolizes the kind of community we aspire to be, and to me, that's
> Matthias. That's my argument.
> 
> Matthias, I would really like you to accept the chair. That said, if my
> argument didn't sway you and you still want to decline, I will take it, if
> only so that we can kick off the graduation resolution vote in a timely
> fashion. ;-)
> 
> J
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Gabriel Reid <ga...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
> >> > > I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
> >> > > baseline for our own vote:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
> >> > >
> >> > > My thought was to include all current committers as the initial
> >> members.
> >> >
> >> > Sounds good to me.
> >> >
> >>
> >> FWIW, this looks good to me too.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am
> >> firmly
> >> > of
> >> > > the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that
> >> was
> >> > > required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like
> >> the
> >> > > honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
> >> > >
> >> > > With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work
> >> on
> >> > you
> >> > > that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
> >> > > certainly understand.
> >> >
> >> > I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
> >> > or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in
> >> organizational
> >> > things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
> >> > chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
> >> > is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you
> >> have
> >> > spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
> >> > imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
> >> > things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises
> >> > when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
> >> > worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, when Josh nominated you (Matthias) for the role, I felt that it was
> >> certainly
> >> by far the most logical decision, as it feels like you're made to do the
> >> job.
> >>
> >> However, it appears that among your many skills, you're also very good at
> >> making a case for Josh to be the PMC Chain :-)
> >>
> >
> > Seriously. That was a really nice thing to say, Matthias-- thank you. I
> > hope you all know how much I enjoy working on this stuff with you. It is
> > the part of my work life that I enjoy the most.
> >
> > I'm concerned about getting into one of those comical and cliched "you
> > take it, no you take it, no you take it" situations, and I just arrived
> > back in SF from a long week of travel. I'm going to sleep on it and see if
> > I can come up with a good counterargument. :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I personally feel that either you or Josh would be great for the role, and
> >> that's
> >> based on all the points that both of you have made about why the other one
> >> would be great for the job. As far as I'm concerned, it does need to be
> >> one
> >> of
> >> the two of you, but I'm fine with either one.
> >>
> >> - Gabriel
> >>
> >
> >

Re: graduation charter details

[Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>]

here's more on what the Chair duties/responsibilities are:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair

Basically it boils down to:
"The chair of the PMC is appointed by the Board and is an officer of
the ASF (Vice President). The chair has primary responsibility to the
Board, and has the power to establish rules and procedures for the day
to day management of the communities for which the PMC is responsible,
including the composition of the PMC itself. "

Concretely? it primarily means you report to the board and in that
capacity are responsible for getting a quarterly report to the them
outlining the status of the project.

Patrick

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So my reason for nominating Matthias as the PMC chair was based on two
> things. First, I felt that he deserved it and would do a better job of it
> than anyone else. Second, and I'm sure I'm going to embarrass him a little
> bit by saying this, but I feel that he represents all that is awesome about
> the ASF: someone who joins a community around code, make substantial
> contributions, and achieve a leadership position in the community through
> merit. That is the ASF at its best, and that is exactly what I wanted the
> Crunch community to become when we first took the project to the incubator.
>
> At the end of the day, the PMC chair is largely a symbolic thing: the
> overall direction for the project is driven by the consensus of the PMC
> members. Given that it's symbolic, I think that we should choose someone
> who symbolizes the kind of community we aspire to be, and to me, that's
> Matthias. That's my argument.
>
> Matthias, I would really like you to accept the chair. That said, if my
> argument didn't sway you and you still want to decline, I will take it, if
> only so that we can kick off the graduation resolution vote in a timely
> fashion. ;-)
>
> J
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Gabriel Reid <ga...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
>>> > > I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
>>> > > baseline for our own vote:
>>> > >
>>> > > http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
>>> > >
>>> > > My thought was to include all current committers as the initial
>>> members.
>>> >
>>> > Sounds good to me.
>>> >
>>>
>>> FWIW, this looks good to me too.
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am
>>> firmly
>>> > of
>>> > > the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that
>>> was
>>> > > required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like
>>> the
>>> > > honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
>>> > >
>>> > > With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work
>>> on
>>> > you
>>> > > that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
>>> > > certainly understand.
>>> >
>>> > I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
>>> > or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in
>>> organizational
>>> > things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
>>> > chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
>>> > is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you
>>> have
>>> > spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
>>> > imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
>>> > things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises
>>> > when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
>>> > worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Well, when Josh nominated you (Matthias) for the role, I felt that it was
>>> certainly
>>> by far the most logical decision, as it feels like you're made to do the
>>> job.
>>>
>>> However, it appears that among your many skills, you're also very good at
>>> making a case for Josh to be the PMC Chain :-)
>>>
>>
>> Seriously. That was a really nice thing to say, Matthias-- thank you. I
>> hope you all know how much I enjoy working on this stuff with you. It is
>> the part of my work life that I enjoy the most.
>>
>> I'm concerned about getting into one of those comical and cliched "you
>> take it, no you take it, no you take it" situations, and I just arrived
>> back in SF from a long week of travel. I'm going to sleep on it and see if
>> I can come up with a good counterargument. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I personally feel that either you or Josh would be great for the role, and
>>> that's
>>> based on all the points that both of you have made about why the other one
>>> would be great for the job. As far as I'm concerned, it does need to be
>>> one
>>> of
>>> the two of you, but I'm fine with either one.
>>>
>>> - Gabriel
>>>
>>
>>

Re: graduation charter details

[Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com>]

So my reason for nominating Matthias as the PMC chair was based on two
things. First, I felt that he deserved it and would do a better job of it
than anyone else. Second, and I'm sure I'm going to embarrass him a little
bit by saying this, but I feel that he represents all that is awesome about
the ASF: someone who joins a community around code, make substantial
contributions, and achieve a leadership position in the community through
merit. That is the ASF at its best, and that is exactly what I wanted the
Crunch community to become when we first took the project to the incubator.

At the end of the day, the PMC chair is largely a symbolic thing: the
overall direction for the project is driven by the consensus of the PMC
members. Given that it's symbolic, I think that we should choose someone
who symbolizes the kind of community we aspire to be, and to me, that's
Matthias. That's my argument.

Matthias, I would really like you to accept the chair. That said, if my
argument didn't sway you and you still want to decline, I will take it, if
only so that we can kick off the graduation resolution vote in a timely
fashion. ;-)

J


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Gabriel Reid <ga...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
>> > > I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
>> > > baseline for our own vote:
>> > >
>> > > http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
>> > >
>> > > My thought was to include all current committers as the initial
>> members.
>> >
>> > Sounds good to me.
>> >
>>
>> FWIW, this looks good to me too.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > > For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am
>> firmly
>> > of
>> > > the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that
>> was
>> > > required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like
>> the
>> > > honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
>> > >
>> > > With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work
>> on
>> > you
>> > > that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
>> > > certainly understand.
>> >
>> > I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
>> > or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in
>> organizational
>> > things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
>> > chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
>> > is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you
>> have
>> > spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
>> > imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
>> > things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises
>> > when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
>> > worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.
>> >
>>
>> Well, when Josh nominated you (Matthias) for the role, I felt that it was
>> certainly
>> by far the most logical decision, as it feels like you're made to do the
>> job.
>>
>> However, it appears that among your many skills, you're also very good at
>> making a case for Josh to be the PMC Chain :-)
>>
>
> Seriously. That was a really nice thing to say, Matthias-- thank you. I
> hope you all know how much I enjoy working on this stuff with you. It is
> the part of my work life that I enjoy the most.
>
> I'm concerned about getting into one of those comical and cliched "you
> take it, no you take it, no you take it" situations, and I just arrived
> back in SF from a long week of travel. I'm going to sleep on it and see if
> I can come up with a good counterargument. :-)
>
>
>
>>
>> I personally feel that either you or Josh would be great for the role, and
>> that's
>> based on all the points that both of you have made about why the other one
>> would be great for the job. As far as I'm concerned, it does need to be
>> one
>> of
>> the two of you, but I'm fine with either one.
>>
>> - Gabriel
>>
>
>

Re: graduation charter details

[Josh Wills <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Gabriel Reid <ga...@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de> wrote:
> >
> > On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
> > > I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
> > > baseline for our own vote:
> > >
> > > http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
> > >
> > > My thought was to include all current committers as the initial
> members.
> >
> > Sounds good to me.
> >
>
> FWIW, this looks good to me too.
>
>
> >
> > > For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am
> firmly
> > of
> > > the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that was
> > > required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like the
> > > honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
> > >
> > > With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work on
> > you
> > > that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
> > > certainly understand.
> >
> > I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
> > or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in organizational
> > things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
> > chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.
> >
> > I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
> > is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you have
> > spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
> > imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
> > things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises
> > when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
> > worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.
> >
>
> Well, when Josh nominated you (Matthias) for the role, I felt that it was
> certainly
> by far the most logical decision, as it feels like you're made to do the
> job.
>
> However, it appears that among your many skills, you're also very good at
> making a case for Josh to be the PMC Chain :-)
>

Seriously. That was a really nice thing to say, Matthias-- thank you. I
hope you all know how much I enjoy working on this stuff with you. It is
the part of my work life that I enjoy the most.

I'm concerned about getting into one of those comical and cliched "you take
it, no you take it, no you take it" situations, and I just arrived back in
SF from a long week of travel. I'm going to sleep on it and see if I can
come up with a good counterargument. :-)



>
> I personally feel that either you or Josh would be great for the role, and
> that's
> based on all the points that both of you have made about why the other one
> would be great for the job. As far as I'm concerned, it does need to be one
> of
> the two of you, but I'm fine with either one.
>
> - Gabriel
>

Re: graduation charter details

[Gabriel Reid <ga...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
> > I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
> > baseline for our own vote:
> >
> > http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
> >
> > My thought was to include all current committers as the initial members.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>

FWIW, this looks good to me too.


>
> > For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am firmly
> of
> > the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that was
> > required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like the
> > honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
> >
> > With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work on
> you
> > that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
> > certainly understand.
>
> I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
> or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in organizational
> things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
> chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.
>
> I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
> is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you have
> spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
> imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
> things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises
> when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
> worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.
>

Well, when Josh nominated you (Matthias) for the role, I felt that it was
certainly
by far the most logical decision, as it feels like you're made to do the
job.

However, it appears that among your many skills, you're also very good at
making a case for Josh to be the PMC Chain :-)

I personally feel that either you or Josh would be great for the role, and
that's
based on all the points that both of you have made about why the other one
would be great for the job. As far as I'm concerned, it does need to be one
of
the two of you, but I'm fine with either one.

- Gabriel

Re: graduation charter details

[Matthias Friedrich <ma...@mafr.de>]

Hi,

On Thursday, 2013-01-31, Josh Wills wrote:
> I was planning on using the graduation charter for Apache Flex as a
> baseline for our own vote:
> 
> http://markmail.org/message/ps3rjgv76vlw4sh5
> 
> My thought was to include all current committers as the initial members.

Sounds good to me.

> For the VP/PMC chair role, I was going to nominate Matthias. I am firmly of
> the opinion that he did more of the important-but-not-fun work that was
> required to turn Crunch into a real Apache project, and I felt like the
> honor of the first VP of Crunch as a TLP should go to him.
> 
> With that said, Matthias, I don't want to impose any additional work on you
> that you wouldn't be up for, so if you would like to decline, I would
> certainly understand.

I'm flattered, thank you, but I have to decline. It's not about the time
or additional work - I'm definitely willing to help out in organizational
things like graduation or reporting duties, no matter who becomes PMC
chair. However, I think there's a candidate who's much better suited.

I'm not sure how the nomination/election process works here, or if there
is one, but I'd like to nominate you, Josh. Crunch is your baby, you have
spent more time on it than anybody else - not just coding, but even more
imporantly in building a community. You are always willing to discuss
things, you stay polite even when you disagree and you make compromises 
when the majority of the team wants to take a different road. That's
worth a lot, so I think you would be the perfect candidate.

What do you think guys?

Regards,
  Matthias