You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> on 2018/06/05 08:15:09 UTC

Microsoft buys GitHub

Hello,

I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/

I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.

--emi




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Martin Weißhaupt <mw...@googlemail.com>.
Hi John,

no problem.

I'm not a fan of Microsoft either and I try to do as much as possible with
free software and only use proprietary Software if necessary.
We shouldn't trust them blindly but I think it is not necessary to panic
about the aquisition. As long as everyone oposes vendor lock in the open
source projects are free to leave the platform any time.
And I said I'm not a lawyer so maby my idea of the regulators stepping in
are a bit naive ;-)

Regards,
Martin

2018-06-06 0:40 GMT+02:00 John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com>:

> Dear Martin,
>
> I would like to respectfully disagree with two of your statements.
>
> microsoft does not play by the rules.
>
> Also, they have never been stopped due to their previous anti competitive
> behavior. It is unlikely they would lose any legal case in any of the legal
> systems when they shut down GitHub.
>
> That's my take on it. I am feeling rather cynical.
>
> Kind regards,
> Johnny
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 9:18 AM Martin Weißhaupt <
> mweisshaupt1988@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> > want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> > open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> > not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> > which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> >
> > If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> > everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> > future.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> >
> > 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>:
> >
> > > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least
> not
> > > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git
> home.
> > >
> > > — Kirk
> > >
> > > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com>.
On 06/05/2018 06:45 PM, John McDonnell wrote:
> Have to say I'm a little perplexed at all the negativity surrounding the
> news on this.

> Yes, there will obviously be some MS tie-ins, be it Azure or Visual Studio
> (Code), etc.

That's exactly what people are concerned about. As Thomas Wuerthinger of
Oracle Labs tweeted, "After this acquisition GitHub could lose its
status as a neutral open source collaboration platform."

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
PS: It seems the ASF does have Review Board available at https://reviews.apache.org We could try to use this too.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 6 June 2018 8:21 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:

> > And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
> 
> git...
> 
> GitHub isn't just a remote host. It's also basically:
> 
> -   our code review tool for all commits (lots of comments on PRs which cannot be migrated).
> -   smoke test build server (via Travis)
>     
>     I would agree to continue using GitHub if we demote it to a plain remote. But right now it's central to our 'workflow' through PRs.
>     
>     This is something the ASF could fix by providing a separate code review tool, just like we have an issue tracker (JIRA) and wiki (Confluence). Since they are big on Atlassian we could try https://www.atlassian.com/software/crucible (which I didn't use before but looks OK).
>     
>     --emi
>     
>     ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>     
>     On 6 June 2018 2:45 AM, John McDonnell mcdonnell.john@gmail.com wrote:
>     
> 
> > Have to say I'm a little perplexed at all the negativity surrounding the
> > 
> > news on this.
> > 
> > I don't see the Microsoft under the Satya Nadella as comparable to
> > 
> > previous eras of the company. There's no way they'd buy GitHub and then
> > 
> > strip it down, or whatever some people are saying(there's some crazy ideas
> > 
> > out there), look at how their using it now. They are considered to be one
> > 
> > of the largest open source contributors on GitHub(3839 people in the MS
> > 
> > organisation on GitHub, and 1839 repos), why purchase this and then ruin
> > 
> > it? their staff are using it more than anyone right now
> > 
> > Yes, there will obviously be some MS tie-ins, be it Azure or Visual Studio
> > 
> > (Code), etc... But there could also be other changes, that maybe GitHub
> > 
> > could make previously, etc.. and not everyone will agree with all the
> > 
> > upcoming changes, specifically if there's an MS bias in them, but in
> > 
> > fairness, no change will ever suit everyone.
> > 
> > Let's see what they do first before judging them.
> > 
> > And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
> > 
> > git...
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > On 5 June 2018 at 23:40, John Muczynski johnstosh@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear Martin,
> > > 
> > > I would like to respectfully disagree with two of your statements.
> > > 
> > > microsoft does not play by the rules.
> > > 
> > > Also, they have never been stopped due to their previous anti competitive
> > > 
> > > behavior. It is unlikely they would lose any legal case in any of the legal
> > > 
> > > systems when they shut down GitHub.
> > > 
> > > That's my take on it. I am feeling rather cynical.
> > > 
> > > Kind regards,
> > > 
> > > Johnny
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 9:18 AM Martin Weißhaupt <
> > > 
> > > mweisshaupt1988@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> > > > 
> > > > want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> > > > 
> > > > open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> > > > 
> > > > not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> > > > 
> > > > which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> > > > 
> > > > If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> > > > 
> > > > everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> > > > 
> > > > future.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > 
> > > > Martin
> > > > 
> > > > 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine kirk@kodewerk.com:
> > > > 
> > > > > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least
> > > > > 
> > > > > not
> > > > 
> > > > > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git
> > > > > 
> > > > > home.
> > > > 
> > > > > — Kirk
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung mcheung63@hotmail.com
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From: Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --emi
> > > 
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > > > 
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> > > > > 
> > > > > apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
> And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
git...

GitHub isn't just a remote host. It's also basically:

* our code review tool for all commits (lots of comments on PRs which cannot be migrated).
* smoke test build server (via Travis)

I would agree to continue using GitHub *if* we demote it to a plain remote. But right now it's central to our 'workflow' through PRs.

This is something the ASF could fix by providing a separate code review tool, just like we have an issue tracker (JIRA) and wiki (Confluence). Since they are big on Atlassian we could try https://www.atlassian.com/software/crucible (which I didn't use before but looks OK).

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 6 June 2018 2:45 AM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have to say I'm a little perplexed at all the negativity surrounding the
> 
> news on this.
> 
> I don't see the Microsoft under the Satya Nadella as comparable to
> 
> previous eras of the company. There's no way they'd buy GitHub and then
> 
> strip it down, or whatever some people are saying(there's some crazy ideas
> 
> out there), look at how their using it now. They are considered to be one
> 
> of the largest open source contributors on GitHub(3839 people in the MS
> 
> organisation on GitHub, and 1839 repos), why purchase this and then ruin
> 
> it? their staff are using it more than anyone right now
> 
> Yes, there will obviously be some MS tie-ins, be it Azure or Visual Studio
> 
> (Code), etc... But there could also be other changes, that maybe GitHub
> 
> could make previously, etc.. and not everyone will agree with all the
> 
> upcoming changes, specifically if there's an MS bias in them, but in
> 
> fairness, no change will ever suit everyone.
> 
> Let's see what they do first before judging them.
> 
> And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
> 
> git...
> 
> John
> 
> On 5 June 2018 at 23:40, John Muczynski johnstosh@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Dear Martin,
> > 
> > I would like to respectfully disagree with two of your statements.
> > 
> > microsoft does not play by the rules.
> > 
> > Also, they have never been stopped due to their previous anti competitive
> > 
> > behavior. It is unlikely they would lose any legal case in any of the legal
> > 
> > systems when they shut down GitHub.
> > 
> > That's my take on it. I am feeling rather cynical.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > 
> > Johnny
> > 
> > On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 9:18 AM Martin Weißhaupt <
> > 
> > mweisshaupt1988@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> > > 
> > > want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> > > 
> > > open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> > > 
> > > not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> > > 
> > > which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> > > 
> > > If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> > > 
> > > everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> > > 
> > > future.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine kirk@kodewerk.com:
> > > 
> > > > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least
> > > > 
> > > > not
> > > 
> > > > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git
> > > > 
> > > > home.
> > > 
> > > > — Kirk
> > > > 
> > > > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung mcheung63@hotmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > > > 
> > > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > > > 
> > > > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > > > 
> > > > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > > > 
> > > > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --emi
> > 
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> > > > > 
> > > > > incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > > 
> > > > > dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > > 
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> > > > 
> > > > apache.org
> > > 
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > 
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

RE: Microsoft buys GitHub Rule R217

Posted by Marc Beck <pa...@earthlink.net>.
M$ did break/mess up everything they touched. Can't see why eventually it
will be different here

Marc 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Pepperdine [mailto:kirk@kodewerk.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 4:36 AM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub Rule R217

Hi Jim,

>> 
>> John
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but as a professor who has had to spend the bulk of his
teaching
> career telling students to not use MS products because they don't follow
> standards, I'm on the other side, condemn the news until they prove they
> aren't the useless organization they have always been.

You really need to shift your attitude. MS hasn't been a useless
organization.. they've been very useful at sucking up all of the capital
that may have been useful to spur innovation in this industry.. oh even
better, they've been able to use that capital to further stifle innovation..
all very useful.

More seriously, it is unlikely that MS will change git in the short term and
in fact it might be something that resembles the Skype acquisition.
Essentially everything is the same. That said, I think that Tim's point that
a GitHub monoculture does leave us vulnerable to the whims of the the
dictator in charge of that monoculture.. which was ok when we liked the
dictator but now..

Kind regards,
Kirk


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>.
Hi Jim,

>> 
>> John
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, but as a professor who has had to spend the bulk of his teaching
> career telling students to not use MS products because they don’t follow
> standards, I’m on the other side, condemn the news until they prove they
> aren’t the useless organization they have always been.

You really need to shift your attitude. MS hasn’t been a useless organization.. they’ve been very useful at sucking up all of the capital that may have been useful to spur innovation in this industry.. oh even better, they’ve been able to use that capital to further stifle innovation.. all very useful…

More seriously, it is unlikely that MS will change git in the short term and in fact it might be something that resembles the Skype acquisition. Essentially everything is the same. That said, I think that Tim’s point that a GitHub monoculture does leave us vulnerable to the whims of the the dictator in charge of that monoculture.. which was ok when we liked the dictator but now….

Kind regards,
Kirk


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Jim Powell <po...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 5:45 PM John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Have to say I'm a little perplexed at all the negativity surrounding the
> news on this.
>
> I don't see the Microsoft under the Satya Nadella as comparable to
> previous eras of the company.  There's no way they'd buy GitHub and then
> strip it down, or whatever some people are saying(there's some crazy ideas
> out there), look at how their using it now. They are considered to be one
> of the largest open source contributors on GitHub(3839 people in the MS
> organisation on GitHub, and 1839 repos), why purchase this and then ruin
> it?  their staff are using it more than anyone right now
>
> Yes, there will obviously be some MS tie-ins, be it Azure or Visual Studio
> (Code), etc... But there could also be other changes, that maybe GitHub
> could make previously, etc.. and not everyone will agree with all the
> upcoming changes, specifically if there's an MS bias in them, but in
> fairness, no change will ever suit everyone.
>
> Let's see what they do first before judging them.
>
> And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
> git...
>
> John


I’m sorry, but as a professor who has had to spend the bulk of his teaching
career telling students to not use MS products because they don’t follow
standards, I’m on the other side, condemn the news until they prove they
aren’t the useless organization they have always been.

Jim

>
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Have to say I'm a little perplexed at all the negativity surrounding the
news on this.

I don't see the Microsoft under the Satya Nadella as comparable to
previous eras of the company.  There's no way they'd buy GitHub and then
strip it down, or whatever some people are saying(there's some crazy ideas
out there), look at how their using it now. They are considered to be one
of the largest open source contributors on GitHub(3839 people in the MS
organisation on GitHub, and 1839 repos), why purchase this and then ruin
it?  their staff are using it more than anyone right now

Yes, there will obviously be some MS tie-ins, be it Azure or Visual Studio
(Code), etc... But there could also be other changes, that maybe GitHub
could make previously, etc.. and not everyone will agree with all the
upcoming changes, specifically if there's an MS bias in them, but in
fairness, no change will ever suit everyone.

Let's see what they do first before judging them.

And like has already been said, it's fairly easy to change a remote host on
git...

John


On 5 June 2018 at 23:40, John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Martin,
>
> I would like to respectfully disagree with two of your statements.
>
> microsoft does not play by the rules.
>
> Also, they have never been stopped due to their previous anti competitive
> behavior. It is unlikely they would lose any legal case in any of the legal
> systems when they shut down GitHub.
>
> That's my take on it. I am feeling rather cynical.
>
> Kind regards,
> Johnny
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 9:18 AM Martin Weißhaupt <
> mweisshaupt1988@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> > want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> > open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> > not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> > which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> >
> > If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> > everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> > future.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> >
> > 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>:
> >
> > > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least
> not
> > > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git
> home.
> > >
> > > — Kirk
> > >
> > > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com>.
Dear Martin,

I would like to respectfully disagree with two of your statements.

microsoft does not play by the rules.

Also, they have never been stopped due to their previous anti competitive
behavior. It is unlikely they would lose any legal case in any of the legal
systems when they shut down GitHub.

That's my take on it. I am feeling rather cynical.

Kind regards,
Johnny


On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, 9:18 AM Martin Weißhaupt <
mweisshaupt1988@googlemail.com> wrote:

> GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
>
> If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> future.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
> 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>:
>
> > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least not
> > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git home.
> >
> > — Kirk
> >
> > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > github-empowering-developers/
> > >
> > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by John Yeary <jo...@gmail.com>.
Ouch!

____________________________

John Yeary
____________________________
*NetBeans Dream Team*

*Founder Greenville Java Users GroupJava Users Groups Community Leader*
____________________________

<http://javaevangelist.blogspot.com/>  <https://twitter.com/jyeary>
<http://www.youtube.com/johnyeary>  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jyeary>
<https://plus.google.com/112146428878473069965>
<http://www.facebook.com/jyeary>
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/JavaEvangelistJohnYearysBlog>
<http://netbeans.org/people/84414-jyeary>

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even
though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who
neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight
that knows not victory nor defeat."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:

> The frog is boiled slowly.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 5 June 2018 4:18 PM, Martin Weißhaupt <mw...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> >
> > want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> >
> > open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> >
> > not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> >
> > which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> >
> > If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> >
> > everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> >
> > future.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine kirk@kodewerk.com:
> >
> > > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least
> not
> > >
> > > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git
> home.
> > >
> > > — Kirk
> > >
> > > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung mcheung63@hotmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > >
> > > > From: Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > >
> > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > >
> > > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub
> purchase:
> > > >
> > > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > >
> > > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > >
> > > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.
> incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > >
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.
> apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> The frog is boiled slowly...

The ASF insists on all our repositories being mirrored on servers that
we control [1] exactly for such reasons: being dependent on GitHub or
any other commercial service would not work for our "we'll still be
around in 50 years" mission.

GitHub is very useful to our projects but if it were to go away of if
their terms became unacceptable we can drop it and use something else,
without losing any history.

I hope situations like this help explain why the ASF is so picky about
such things, like keeping full control on our code and data.

-Bertrand

[1] https://gitbox.apache.org/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
The frog is boiled slowly.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 5 June 2018 4:18 PM, Martin Weißhaupt <mw...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
> 
> want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
> 
> open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
> 
> not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
> 
> which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.
> 
> If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
> 
> everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
> 
> future.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine kirk@kodewerk.com:
> 
> > I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least not
> > 
> > right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git home.
> > 
> > — Kirk
> > 
> > > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung mcheung63@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> > > 
> > > From: Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > > 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > > 
> > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> > > 
> > > projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> > > 
> > > https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> > > 
> > > github-empowering-developers/
> > > 
> > > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> > > 
> > > project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> > > 
> > > --emi
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Martin Weißhaupt <mw...@googlemail.com>.
GitHub was already a proprietary platform. Microsoft is not stupid, they
want to get a part of the open source cake and closing GitHub or making
open source projects suffer would get them into trouble really fast. I'm
not a lawyer but I think that would qualify as anti competitive behaviour
which would get the EU or other institutions to intervent.

If they are playing by the rules there is nothing to worry about but
everyone should be observant about what Microsoft does with GitHub in the
future.

Regards,
Martin

2018-06-05 14:34 GMT+02:00 Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>:

> I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least not
> right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git home.
>
> — Kirk
>
> > On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-
> github-empowering-developers/
> >
> > I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our
> project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> >
> > --emi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>.
I say good for GitHub.. I don’t think MS will be a problem… At least not right away. And if they are, it’s pretty easy to move to a new git home.

— Kirk

> On Jun 5, 2018, at 1:58 PM, Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/
> 
> I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> 
> --emi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Ognyan Kulev <og...@ognyankulev.com>.
Facebook was a pioneer in mass profiling of the general world 
population. Now Microsoft, armed with LinkedIn and GitHub, is in 
position to do the same for the developer world population. (Do you 
remember "developers, developers, developers"?) Microsoft needs to keep 
GitHub users happy and sharing and forking and pulling, and will make 
everything it can for technical excellency of GitHub.

Best regards,
Ognyan

На  5.06.2018 в 17:52, Ognyan Kulev написа:
> My guess is that Microsoft will avoid crippling Github in any way (MS 
> wants these millions of developers) and will try to funnel the 
> developers to the Microsoft ecosystem (Azure, Store, LinkedIn, etc.).
> 
> Some references:
> https://stratechery.com/2018/the-cost-of-developers/ (long and broad)
> https://dri.es/how-microsofts-acquisition-of-github-impacts-the-cloud-wars 
> (shorter and focused on Azure)
> 
> Best regards,
> Ognyan
> 
> На  5.06.2018 в 14:58, Peter Cheung написа:
>> Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source 
>> projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: 
>> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/ 
>>
>>
>> I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our 
>> project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
>>
>> --emi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Ognyan Kulev <og...@ognyankulev.com>.
My guess is that Microsoft will avoid crippling Github in any way (MS 
wants these millions of developers) and will try to funnel the 
developers to the Microsoft ecosystem (Azure, Store, LinkedIn, etc.).

Some references:
https://stratechery.com/2018/the-cost-of-developers/ (long and broad)
https://dri.es/how-microsofts-acquisition-of-github-impacts-the-cloud-wars 
(shorter and focused on Azure)

Best regards,
Ognyan

На  5.06.2018 в 14:58, Peter Cheung написа:
> Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/
> 
> I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
> 
> --emi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>.
Codeplex, nokia, robotVM, all dead

________________________________
From: Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 4:15 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Microsoft buys GitHub

Hello,

I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/

I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.

--emi




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
This mirrors my view of Microsoft 100%… their “success" held back the computer industry by about 10 years.
I remember my fancy multitasking Commodore Amiga with sound and colour and GUI and a decent processor architecture… while MS and PCs had DOS and segmented memory, ugh.

They have a track record of ruining nearly everything they touch.

Regarding GitHub, I vastly prefer Mercurial anyway, so I’ve never been a GitHub fan.  (In the end it doesn’t much matter though, it’s just betamax is better than VHS all over again…)

Cheers,

Scott

> On Jun 6, 2018, at 3:46 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
> did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
> regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> vulnerable, broken by design OS.  Convenient as it is, I think you can
> trace a big chunk of the rapid explosion of mobile computing to people
> using a non-windows device for the first time and thinking "OMG, you mean
> viruses, malware, ransomware, antivirus software that spies on you and blue
> screens of death aren't the way all computing *simply **is*?  You mean that
> isn't *normal*?!"  How much further along would pretty well *everything* be
> if millions hadn't been trapped in a world of 32 bits, synchronous I/O,
> backdoors, wide-open OS-wide configuration databases, never mind it being a
> black box, for an extra decade?

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>.
Hello all,

Am Mittwoch, den 06.06.2018, 11:19 -0700 schrieb Chuck Davis:
> If Git is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git
> repositories for Apache projects.

it would be great if the noise on this list could get down. You
obviously did not read the Email from Bertrand Delacretaz:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b67faf6913e8720f805a79137d34fe794d4d04c026c5f6f7e9767044@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

TL;DR: If Microsoft turn github of tomorrow, we loose the current easy
contribution style, the repository is still there. The repository is
mirrored to apache:

https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=summary


So it would be inconvenient, but the world will keep spinning if github
goes dark.

My take on this: We loose nothing if we first observe what happens on
github, before we make heated decisions.

Greetings

Matthias

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
> > ...In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing list...
> 
> Maybe you're too young for that ;-)

If only... I meant the dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org mailing list.

--emi

> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com>.
Encouraging read

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/8pc8mf/im_nat_friedman_future_ceo_of_github_ama/?limit=500



On Thu, 7 Jun 2018, 19:46 Stephen Parry, <sg...@mainscreen.com> wrote:

> Just my tuppence worth (being British) regarding Micro$oft being evil:
> companies do change. I remember when IBM was the byword for restrictive
> practice and vendor lock-in.  Nowadays they are a really positive force in
> the open source arena. They contribute a huge amount (too much if Xenix
> were to be believed) to open source development, use and popularity. You
> can run Linux as standard on a IBM supercomputer. 25 years ago, running a
> non-IBM OS on such would have been considered "crazy talk".
> Going the other way, Google, the company that pioneered "not being evil"?
> They have tarnished that more than a little.
> The industry is so full of wreckers and weasels it is easy to become
> cynical. If you want to see a consistent wrecker in the community, Oracle
> wins hands down, I agree. However, the  people who put MS where they are?
> Ironically that is Apple. They taught Microsoft the lesson, "if they are an
> enemy, sue them, if they are a friend sue them first" and "If in doubt, if
> any new technology appears,  patent it, stick your logo on it, and pretend
> like you invented it".
> I think we need to be a little more positive and the really positive
> success story of the last two decades is the fact that, no matter how hard
> everyone else tried too, only one player managed to dominate the Internet -
> us, the open source community. Linux, Apache, MySQL, Firefox, and a
> bazillion other projects mean it is possible to both have software that is
> diverse and open but that works and does not cost you internal organs,
> while people are still able to make a mostly adequate and mostly honest
> dollar, rupee or pound out of it all. That's a big thing.
> In other words, for the most part, we won. That is something to both
> celebrate and protect damn hard. Microsoft is just trying to hack out the
> biggest chunk they can of the new order, which is why they have the CEO
> they do now. That does mean though tgat we need to be vigilant. Let's watch
> and see, but be prepared - be friends and let them ride in the car;  just
> don't give them the keys.
> Regards to all
> Stephen
>
> On 7 June 2018 16:55:33 BST, Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com> wrote:
> >What GitHub brings to the table are the review and collaboration tools.
> >If you don’t need them, then you don’t need GitHub.
> >
> >Kind regards,
> >Kirk
> >
> >> On Jun 7, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
> ><ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We’re using GitHub as a convenience, thanks to GitBox. But there’s no
> >> requirement to use GitHub except that since it’s possible it’s
> >popular
> >> because everyone knows GitHub. But we could use whatever Apache
> >enables us
> >> to use.
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >> On Thursday, June 7, 2018, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> In theory. In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the
> >mailing
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >>> Without GitHub you cannot comment on PRs, you cannot +1. You cannot
> >create
> >>> a new PR.
> >>>
> >>> --emi
> >>>
> >>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>>
> >>> On 7 June 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github
> >account.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference
> >where
> >>> from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
> >>>>
> >>>> The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).
> >>>>
> >>>> Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull
> >request. I
> >>> personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and
> >then
> >>> attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list
> >for
> >>> review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works
> >like a
> >>> charm!
> >>>>
> >>>> In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread
> >channels
> >>> etc).
> >>>>
> >>>> You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket,
> >>> sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could
> >>> git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used
> >even.
> >>>>
> >>>> LieGrue,
> >>>>
> >>>> strub
> >>>>
> >>>>> Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Emilian,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold
> >>> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without
> >>> GitHub
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans
> >without a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> GitHub account?').
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
> >involved in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
> >GitHub.
> >>> AFAIK
> >>>>>
> >>>>> anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git
> >repo
> >>> on
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Apache:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches,
> >if
> >>> this
> >>>>>
> >>>>> list strips attachments.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if
> >we
> >>> are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> GitHub-only.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take
> >care
> >>> of PRs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (code review / comments).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --emi
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz christian.lenz@gmx.net
> >wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t
> >be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not
> >have.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Von: Marc Beck
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by
> >themselves.
> >>> They
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> B.G. did come up with himself.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything
> >that
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> could be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes
> >>> together and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down
> >>> version we
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> under Vista).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just my $.02
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a
> >year
> >>> and a
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late)
> >>> gave
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been
> >>> enjoying for
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy
> >implementation
> >>> to be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software
> >>> patents" to
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.
> >>> Everything they
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting
> >the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> innovator.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market
> >like
> >>> they
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never
> >invented
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> anything but they sure know how to market other people's
> >>> innovations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll
> >>> be. If
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Git
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git
> >>> repositories
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Apache projects.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau
> >niftiness@gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable
> >>> harm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on
> >every
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> desktop
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically
> >flawed,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> >For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Stephen Parry <sg...@mainscreen.com>.
Just my tuppence worth (being British) regarding Micro$oft being evil: companies do change. I remember when IBM was the byword for restrictive practice and vendor lock-in.  Nowadays they are a really positive force in the open source arena. They contribute a huge amount (too much if Xenix were to be believed) to open source development, use and popularity. You can run Linux as standard on a IBM supercomputer. 25 years ago, running a non-IBM OS on such would have been considered "crazy talk".
Going the other way, Google, the company that pioneered "not being evil"? They have tarnished that more than a little.
The industry is so full of wreckers and weasels it is easy to become cynical. If you want to see a consistent wrecker in the community, Oracle wins hands down, I agree. However, the  people who put MS where they are? Ironically that is Apple. They taught Microsoft the lesson, "if they are an enemy, sue them, if they are a friend sue them first" and "If in doubt, if any new technology appears,  patent it, stick your logo on it, and pretend like you invented it".
I think we need to be a little more positive and the really positive success story of the last two decades is the fact that, no matter how hard everyone else tried too, only one player managed to dominate the Internet - us, the open source community. Linux, Apache, MySQL, Firefox, and a bazillion other projects mean it is possible to both have software that is diverse and open but that works and does not cost you internal organs, while people are still able to make a mostly adequate and mostly honest dollar, rupee or pound out of it all. That's a big thing.
In other words, for the most part, we won. That is something to both celebrate and protect damn hard. Microsoft is just trying to hack out the biggest chunk they can of the new order, which is why they have the CEO they do now. That does mean though tgat we need to be vigilant. Let's watch and see, but be prepared - be friends and let them ride in the car;  just don't give them the keys. 
Regards to all
Stephen

On 7 June 2018 16:55:33 BST, Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com> wrote:
>What GitHub brings to the table are the review and collaboration tools.
>If you don’t need them, then you don’t need GitHub.
>
>Kind regards,
>Kirk
>
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
><ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We’re using GitHub as a convenience, thanks to GitBox. But there’s no
>> requirement to use GitHub except that since it’s possible it’s
>popular
>> because everyone knows GitHub. But we could use whatever Apache
>enables us
>> to use.
>> 
>> Gj
>> 
>> On Thursday, June 7, 2018, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
>wrote:
>> 
>>> In theory. In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the
>mailing
>>> list.
>>> 
>>> Without GitHub you cannot comment on PRs, you cannot +1. You cannot
>create
>>> a new PR.
>>> 
>>> --emi
>>> 
>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>> 
>>> On 7 June 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>
>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github
>account.
>>>> 
>>>> Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference
>where
>>> from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
>>>> 
>>>> The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).
>>>> 
>>>> Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull
>request. I
>>> personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and
>then
>>> attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list
>for
>>> review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works
>like a
>>> charm!
>>>> 
>>>> In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread
>channels
>>> etc).
>>>> 
>>>> You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket,
>>> sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could
>>> git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used
>even.
>>>> 
>>>> LieGrue,
>>>> 
>>>> strub
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Emilian,
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold
>>> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without
>>> GitHub
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans
>without a
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> GitHub account?').
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be
>involved in
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> anything without jumping onto GitHub.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without
>GitHub.
>>> AFAIK
>>>>> 
>>>>> anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git
>repo
>>> on
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apache:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
>>>>> 
>>>>> and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches,
>if
>>> this
>>>>> 
>>>>> list strips attachments.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if
>we
>>> are
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> GitHub-only.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take
>care
>>> of PRs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (code review / comments).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --emi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz christian.lenz@gmx.net
>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t
>be
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not
>have.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Von: Marc Beck
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by
>themselves.
>>> They
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> B.G. did come up with himself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything
>that
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes
>>> together and
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down
>>> version we
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> under Vista).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just my $.02
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a
>year
>>> and a
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late)
>>> gave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been
>>> enjoying for
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy
>implementation
>>> to be
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software
>>> patents" to
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.
>>> Everything they
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting
>the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> innovator.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market
>like
>>> they
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never
>invented
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> anything but they sure know how to market other people's
>>> innovations.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll
>>> be. If
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Git
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git
>>> repositories
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Apache projects.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau
>niftiness@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable
>>> harm
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on
>every
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically
>flawed,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>> 
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
>For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>.
What GitHub brings to the table are the review and collaboration tools. If you don’t need them, then you don’t need GitHub.

Kind regards,
Kirk

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> We’re using GitHub as a convenience, thanks to GitBox. But there’s no
> requirement to use GitHub except that since it’s possible it’s popular
> because everyone knows GitHub. But we could use whatever Apache enables us
> to use.
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> 
>> In theory. In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing
>> list.
>> 
>> Without GitHub you cannot comment on PRs, you cannot +1. You cannot create
>> a new PR.
>> 
>> --emi
>> 
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> 
>> On 7 June 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID> wrote:
>> 
>>> To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github account.
>>> 
>>> Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference where
>> from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
>>> 
>>> The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).
>>> 
>>> Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull request. I
>> personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and then
>> attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list for
>> review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works like a
>> charm!
>>> 
>>> In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread channels
>> etc).
>>> 
>>> You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket,
>> sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could
>> git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used even.
>>> 
>>> LieGrue,
>>> 
>>> strub
>>> 
>>>> Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Emilian,
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold
>> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without
>> GitHub
>>>>> 
>>>>> (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a
>>>>> 
>>>>> GitHub account?').
>>>>> 
>>>>> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in
>>>>> 
>>>>> anything without jumping onto GitHub.
>>>> 
>>>> Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without GitHub.
>> AFAIK
>>>> 
>>>> anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git repo
>> on
>>>> 
>>>> Apache:
>>>> 
>>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
>>>> 
>>>> and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches, if
>> this
>>>> 
>>>> list strips attachments.)
>>>> 
>>>> My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
>>>> 
>>>> Jan
>>>> 
>>>>> There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we
>> are
>>>>> 
>>>>> GitHub-only.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care
>> of PRs
>>>>> 
>>>>> (code review / comments).
>>>>> 
>>>>> --emi
>>>>> 
>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz christian.lenz@gmx.net wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Von: Marc Beck
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves.
>> They
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> B.G. did come up with himself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes
>> together and
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down
>> version we
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> under Vista).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my $.02
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year
>> and a
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late)
>> gave
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been
>> enjoying for
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation
>> to be
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software
>> patents" to
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.
>> Everything they
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> innovator.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like
>> they
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> anything but they sure know how to market other people's
>> innovations.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll
>> be. If
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Git
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git
>> repositories
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apache projects.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable
>> harm
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> desktop
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>> 
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> 
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
We’re using GitHub as a convenience, thanks to GitBox. But there’s no
requirement to use GitHub except that since it’s possible it’s popular
because everyone knows GitHub. But we could use whatever Apache enables us
to use.

Gj

On Thursday, June 7, 2018, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:

> In theory. In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing
> list.
>
> Without GitHub you cannot comment on PRs, you cannot +1. You cannot create
> a new PR.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 7 June 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID> wrote:
>
> > To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github account.
> >
> > Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference where
> from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
> >
> > The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).
> >
> > Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull request. I
> personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and then
> attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list for
> review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works like a
> charm!
> >
> > In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread channels
> etc).
> >
> > You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket,
> sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could
> git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used even.
> >
> > LieGrue,
> >
> > strub
> >
> > > Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com:
> > >
> > > Hi Emilian,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold
> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without
> GitHub
> > > >
> > > > (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a
> > > >
> > > > GitHub account?').
> > > >
> > > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in
> > > >
> > > > anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > >
> > > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without GitHub.
> AFAIK
> > >
> > > anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git repo
> on
> > >
> > > Apache:
> > >
> > > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > >
> > > and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches, if
> this
> > >
> > > list strips attachments.)
> > >
> > > My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > > There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we
> are
> > > >
> > > > GitHub-only.
> > > >
> > > > Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care
> of PRs
> > > >
> > > > (code review / comments).
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > > >
> > > > On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz christian.lenz@gmx.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be
> > > > >
> > > > > worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > Von: Marc Beck
> > > > >
> > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
> > > > >
> > > > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > >
> > > > > Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves.
> They
> > > > >
> > > > > always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
> > > > >
> > > > > something
> > > > >
> > > > > B.G. did come up with himself.
> > > > >
> > > > > When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that
> > > > >
> > > > > could be
> > > > >
> > > > > directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes
> together and
> > > > >
> > > > > came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down
> version we
> > > > >
> > > > > know
> > > > >
> > > > > under Vista).
> > > > >
> > > > > Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my $.02
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > >
> > > > > Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year
> and a
> > > > >
> > > > > half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late)
> gave
> > > > >
> > > > > Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been
> enjoying for
> > > > >
> > > > > more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation
> to be
> > > > >
> > > > > sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software
> patents" to
> > > > >
> > > > > prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.
> Everything they
> > > > >
> > > > > have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
> > > > >
> > > > > innovator.
> > > > >
> > > > > There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like
> they
> > > > >
> > > > > invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
> > > > >
> > > > > anything but they sure know how to market other people's
> innovations.
> > > > >
> > > > > The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll
> be. If
> > > > >
> > > > > Git
> > > > >
> > > > > is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git
> repositories
> > > > >
> > > > > for
> > > > >
> > > > > Apache projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable
> harm
> > > > >
> > > > > they
> > > > >
> > > > > > did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every
> > > > > >
> > > > > > desktop
> > > > >
> > > > > > regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > vulnerable, broken by design OS.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > >
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> > --
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> ...In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing list...

Maybe you're too young for that ;-)

-Bertrand

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
In theory. In practice we never saw a patch being discussed on the mailing list.

Without GitHub you cannot comment on PRs, you cannot +1. You cannot create a new PR.

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 7 June 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID> wrote:

> To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github account.
> 
> Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference where from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
> 
> The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).
> 
> Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull request. I personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and then attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list for review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works like a charm!
> 
> In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread channels etc).
> 
> You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket, sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used even.
> 
> LieGrue,
> 
> strub
> 
> > Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda lahoda@gmail.com:
> > 
> > Hi Emilian,
> > 
> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold emilian.bold@protonmail.ch
> > 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without GitHub
> > > 
> > > (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a
> > > 
> > > GitHub account?').
> > > 
> > > Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in
> > > 
> > > anything without jumping onto GitHub.
> > 
> > Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without GitHub. AFAIK
> > 
> > anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git repo on
> > 
> > Apache:
> > 
> > https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> > 
> > and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches, if this
> > 
> > list strips attachments.)
> > 
> > My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
> > 
> > Jan
> > 
> > > There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we are
> > > 
> > > GitHub-only.
> > > 
> > > Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care of PRs
> > > 
> > > (code review / comments).
> > > 
> > > --emi
> > > 
> > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > > 
> > > On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz christian.lenz@gmx.net wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be
> > > > 
> > > > worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > 
> > > > Chris
> > > > 
> > > > Von: Marc Beck
> > > > 
> > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
> > > > 
> > > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > 
> > > > Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> > > > 
> > > > In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
> > > > 
> > > > always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
> > > > 
> > > > something
> > > > 
> > > > B.G. did come up with himself.
> > > > 
> > > > When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that
> > > > 
> > > > could be
> > > > 
> > > > directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
> > > > 
> > > > came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we
> > > > 
> > > > know
> > > > 
> > > > under Vista).
> > > > 
> > > > Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> > > > 
> > > > Just my $.02
> > > > 
> > > > From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
> > > > 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> > > > 
> > > > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> > > > 
> > > > Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
> > > > 
> > > > half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late) gave
> > > > 
> > > > Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
> > > > 
> > > > more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
> > > > 
> > > > sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> > > > 
> > > > Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
> > > > 
> > > > prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> > > > 
> > > > Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology. Everything they
> > > > 
> > > > have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
> > > > 
> > > > innovator.
> > > > 
> > > > There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
> > > > 
> > > > invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
> > > > 
> > > > anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.
> > > > 
> > > > The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be. If
> > > > 
> > > > Git
> > > > 
> > > > is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories
> > > > 
> > > > for
> > > > 
> > > > Apache projects.
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm
> > > > 
> > > > they
> > > > 
> > > > > did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every
> > > > > 
> > > > > desktop
> > > > 
> > > > > regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> > > > > 
> > > > > vulnerable, broken by design OS.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > 
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
To be honest I don't get why someone would require a github account.

Just clone our ASF git repo. Technically it makes no difference where from. Might be from ASF, github or even your neighbour,..
The sha1 are everywhere the same anyway (if the clone is up2date).

Then you do your changes, create a patch etc. And send a pull request. I personally even prefer creating the patch via git-format-patch and then attaching it to either JIRA or send it directly to the mailing list for review. That's how we always did work in the past and it still works like a charm!
In many cases it's even way cleaner than via github (no spread channels etc).

You could also just point to your repo (hosted on bitbucket, sourceforge, your private server, whatever) and the maintainer could git-fetch+merge from there. That's how GIT was intended to be used even.

LieGrue,
strub


> Am 07.06.2018 um 09:20 schrieb Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>:
> 
> Hi Emilian,
> 
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
> wrote:
> 
>> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without GitHub
>> (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a
>> GitHub account?').
>> 
>> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in
>> anything without jumping onto GitHub.
>> 
> 
> Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without GitHub. AFAIK
> anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git repo on
> Apache:
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git
> 
> and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches, if this
> list strips attachments.)
> 
> My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
>> 
>> There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we are
>> GitHub-only.
>> 
>> Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care of PRs
>> (code review / comments).
>> 
>> --emi
>> 
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> 
>> On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be
>> worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> Von: Marc Beck
>>> 
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
>>> 
>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>> 
>>> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
>>> 
>>> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
>>> 
>>> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
>> something
>>> 
>>> B.G. did come up with himself.
>>> 
>>> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that
>> could be
>>> 
>>> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
>>> 
>>> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we
>> know
>>> 
>>> under Vista).
>>> 
>>> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
>>> 
>>> Just my $.02
>>> 
>>> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
>>> 
>>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
>>> 
>>> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
>>> 
>>> half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late) gave
>>> 
>>> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
>>> 
>>> more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
>>> 
>>> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
>>> 
>>> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
>>> 
>>> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
>>> 
>>> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology. Everything they
>>> 
>>> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
>>> 
>>> innovator.
>>> 
>>> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
>>> 
>>> invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
>>> 
>>> anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.
>>> 
>>> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be. If
>> Git
>>> 
>>> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories
>> for
>>> 
>>> Apache projects.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm
>> they
>>> 
>>>> did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every
>> desktop
>>>> 
>>>> regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
>>>> 
>>>> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> 
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: AW: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.
Hi Emilian,

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>
wrote:

> I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without GitHub
> (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a
> GitHub account?').
>
> Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in
> anything without jumping onto GitHub.
>

Not sure if (or why) it is impossible to be involved without GitHub. AFAIK
anyone can subscribe to this mailing list, checkout from the Git repo on
Apache:
https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git

and send patches to this mailing list. (Or maybe links to patches, if this
list strips attachments.)

My view is that we are using GitHub because it is more convenient.

Jan


>
> There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we are
> GitHub-only.
>
> Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care of PRs
> (code review / comments).
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> > Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be
> worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Von: Marc Beck
> >
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
> >
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
> >
> > Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> >
> > In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
> >
> > always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not
> something
> >
> > B.G. did come up with himself.
> >
> > When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that
> could be
> >
> > directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
> >
> > came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we
> know
> >
> > under Vista).
> >
> > Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> >
> > Just my $.02
> >
> > From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> >
> > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> >
> > Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
> >
> > half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late) gave
> >
> > Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
> >
> > more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
> >
> > sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> >
> > Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
> >
> > prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> >
> > Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology. Everything they
> >
> > have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
> >
> > innovator.
> >
> > There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
> >
> > invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
> >
> > anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.
> >
> > The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be. If
> Git
> >
> > is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories
> for
> >
> > Apache projects.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm
> they
> >
> > > did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every
> desktop
> > >
> > > regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> > >
> > > vulnerable, broken by design OS.
> >
> > --
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: AW: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
I think we need to plan a separate contribution workflow without GitHub (see my other thread 'How to participate in Apache NetBeans without a GitHub account?').

Right now we are tied to GitHub and it's impossible to be involved in anything without jumping onto GitHub.

There is a high change of some contributors avoiding NetBeans if we are GitHub-only.

Demoting GitHub to a plain git remote is fine. We need to take care of PRs (code review / comments).

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 7 June 2018 9:08 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:

> Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> Von: Marc Beck
> 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
> 
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
> 
> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> 
> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
> 
> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not something
> 
> B.G. did come up with himself.
> 
> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that could be
> 
> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
> 
> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we know
> 
> under Vista).
> 
> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com]
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> 
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> 
> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
> 
> half before MS could muster one up? They finally (20 years late) gave
> 
> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
> 
> more that 20 years: virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
> 
> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> 
> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
> 
> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> 
> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology. Everything they
> 
> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
> 
> innovator.
> 
> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
> 
> invented it...welcome to the Windows World. They've never invented
> 
> anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.
> 
> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be. If Git
> 
> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories for
> 
> Apache projects.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
> 
> > did to progress in computing. There was going to be a PC on every desktop
> > 
> > regardless. They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> > 
> > vulnerable, broken by design OS.
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

AW: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Do any of you know the plans of MS? No, so please wait and don’t be worry and make an Solutions, for Problems. That we Maybe not have.


Cheers

Chris

Von: Marc Beck
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2018 21:10
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub

Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.

In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not something
B.G. did come up with himself. 
When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that could be
directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we know
under Vista).
Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material

Just my $.02

From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
half before MS could muster one up?  They finally (20 years late) gave
Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
more that 20 years:  virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
sure) and a usable command prompt window.

Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.

Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.  Everything they
have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
innovator.

There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
invented it...welcome to the Windows World.  They've never invented
anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.

The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be.  If Git
is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories for
Apache projects.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:

Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
> did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
> regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Hi Marc!

We (ASF) never did rely on github.
We host all our repos itself. For git-wip the cannonical repos are solely hosted on ASF hardware. 
For gitbox repos the main repo load is on github, but we have an instant GIT mirror on ASF hardware.
So we always have an exact clone of the whole repo - and because of the nature of GIT also of all the history.

We additionally guarantee code provenance (very important for the ASF!) by keeping push logs and mirroring every commit to our very own commits@xx.a.o mailing lists.  

In other words: GitHub is just one more additional channel to contribute. 
So it really doesn't affect us at all. Even if GitHub would be down from one day to the other.


There are a few things which I don't like on github for ASF projects. 
But that has nothing to do with Microsoft taking over nor with the nature of GIT (and I know a bit about GIT ;))
I dislike that it splits our communication channels. We now have our mailing lists, the JIRA tracker, github bugs, pull requests, and what not.
And every of this channels contains some discussions. So we split our community communication. 
Yes, we try to catch all the GitHub communication and feed it back to our mailing lists. But imo that's rather clumsy and spams our lists.
Probably something we might be able to improve though.

Apart from that nothing did change for us. We are all save, NetBeans is not lost because Microsoft acquired GitHub ;)

LieGrue,
starb



> Am 06.06.2018 um 21:02 schrieb Marc Beck <pa...@earthlink.net>:
> 
> Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.
> 
> In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
> always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not something
> B.G. did come up with himself. 
> When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that could be
> directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
> came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we know
> under Vista).
> Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub
> 
> Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
> half before MS could muster one up?  They finally (20 years late) gave
> Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
> more that 20 years:  virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
> sure) and a usable command prompt window.
> 
> Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
> prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.
> 
> Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.  Everything they
> have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
> innovator.
> 
> There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
> invented it...welcome to the Windows World.  They've never invented
> anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.
> 
> The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be.  If Git
> is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories for
> Apache projects.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
>> did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
>> regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
>> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Marc Beck <pa...@earthlink.net>.
Amen to that. Something I have been telling for so long.

In fact I can't remember a single thing M$ came up by themselves. They
always bought stole, or equivalent. Even the initial CP-M is not something
B.G. did come up with himself. 
When people, around 2000 (XP) decided to stop writing anything that could be
directly used by them it dried out. They got all the wizzes together and
came up with a big flop (of which a very simplified run down version we know
under Vista).
Ergo why they bought GitHub: they are desperate for new material

Just my $.02

From: Chuck Davis [mailto:cjgunzel@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:20 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
half before MS could muster one up?  They finally (20 years late) gave
Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
more that 20 years:  virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
sure) and a usable command prompt window.

Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.

Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.  Everything they
have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
innovator.

There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
invented it...welcome to the Windows World.  They've never invented
anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.

The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be.  If Git
is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories for
Apache projects.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:

Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
> did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
> regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>.
Do we need to be reminded that IBM had a 32 bit desktop OS a year and a
half before MS could muster one up?  They finally (20 years late) gave
Windows 10 users two huge benefits millions of us have been enjoying for
more that 20 years:  virtual desktops (a VERY clumsy implementation to be
sure) and a usable command prompt window.

Even at this time they are using their ridiculous "software patents" to
prevent innovation and hold back the advance of the industry.

Microsoft is and always has been a poison to technology.  Everything they
have has been acquired either through purchasing or bankrupting the
innovator.

There's a lot of stuff on GitHub MS can now steal and market like they
invented it...welcome to the Windows World.  They've never invented
anything but they sure know how to market other people's innovations.

The sooner NB liberates itself from GitHub the better off we'll be.  If Git
is the tool of choice I say let Apache set up it's own Git repositories for
Apache projects.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:

Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
> did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
> regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
> vulnerable, broken by design OS.
>

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Charles Bedon <ch...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't think the problem is "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" anymore. You
> don't spend 7.5 billions if you don't expect some serious ROI, so they will
> try to monetize the platform as much as possible (which is totally
> understandable). Microsoft don't have a good track record on improving the
> products they buy. so they will either kill it after sometime if they don't
> make enough money out of it, or Skypify/Linkedinfy it ad nauseam. Been
> there, done that.
>

My bet is it's a "collecting underwear" thing - i.e. they know developers
are important, and know there are lots of developers on Github, therefore
it has to be good for something.  Likely justified with several nefarious
business plans that can't possibly work, like sticking a "Deploy to the
Microsoft Cloud" button on every project whether that makes sense or not,
and some mumbo jumbo of cross referencing LinkedIn and GitHub to make the
ultimate developer social network, when then, simply has to be good for ...
something.

Honestly, when I think of Microsoft, I think of the immeasurable harm they
did to progress in computing.  There was going to be a PC on every desktop
regardless.  They just ensured that PC ran a horrifically flawed,
vulnerable, broken by design OS.  Convenient as it is, I think you can
trace a big chunk of the rapid explosion of mobile computing to people
using a non-windows device for the first time and thinking "OMG, you mean
viruses, malware, ransomware, antivirus software that spies on you and blue
screens of death aren't the way all computing *simply **is*?  You mean that
isn't *normal*?!"  How much further along would pretty well *everything* be
if millions hadn't been trapped in a world of 32 bits, synchronous I/O,
backdoors, wide-open OS-wide configuration databases, never mind it being a
black box, for an extra decade?

So, no matter how warm and cuddly they appear now, there are a lot of
career employees who have the "old Microsoft" baked into their bones.  In
the long run, I suspect Nadella will go the way of Jonathan Schwartz at
Sun, and sharks will be back in charge one day, one way or another.  I
liked Jonathan, and he both cared about and was able to think holistically
the broad ecosystem of software, but in the industry he's the laughingstock
who gave away the farm.

So, my prediction is one day Oracle buys Microsoft, hangs Satya Nadella
from the yardarm as a warning to others, and a few months later GitHub gets
shut down, not because it isn't making money by then, but simply because
the person who shuts it down needs to do some gratuitous harm to someone to
prove they're "Oracle tough" (that's a thing) enough to deserve a promotion.

In the short term, though, Github will likely not get worse, so there's
plenty of time to have a contingency plan in place.  A GitHub monoculture
was never a great idea anyway.

-Tim

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Charles Bedon <ch...@gmail.com>.
I don't think the problem is "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" anymore. You
don't spend 7.5 billions if you don't expect some serious ROI, so they will
try to monetize the platform as much as possible (which is totally
understandable). Microsoft don't have a good track record on improving the
products they buy. so they will either kill it after sometime if they don't
make enough money out of it, or Skypify/Linkedinfy it ad nauseam. Been
there, done that.

Charles Edward Bedón Cortázar
www.kuwaiba.org| Network Management, Data Analysis and Free Software |
twitter.com/kuwaiba
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses!
http://kuwaiba.sourceforge.net | Follow Kuwaiba on Twitter
<http://twitter.com/kuwaiba>
Linux Registered User #386666


On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:00 AM Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:

> I think not yet. Why is everyone worring About it? MS is doing quite well
> for working and making their own stuff open source for years. We will see
> what happens but atm, there is no official Statement, no License changes at
> all, etc. Keep calm and we will see.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Emilian Bold
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 10:15
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source
> projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase:
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/
>
> I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's
> dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
>
> --emi
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>

AW: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
I think not yet. Why is everyone worring About it? MS is doing quite well for working and making their own stuff open source for years. We will see what happens but atm, there is no official Statement, no License changes at all, etc. Keep calm and we will see.


Cheers

Chris

Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 10:15
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Microsoft buys GitHub

Hello,

I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/

I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.

--emi




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Microsoft buys GitHub

Posted by Efrem Mc <ef...@gmail.com>.
Hi all, I second that statement in concern.  We will either look to
the past of previous acquisitions or maybe this is a new directive to
be open friendly.  How is the X-box development community and
competitors view Microsoft's entry into the game console marketplace
from alpha to omega?

A company of words and not of deeds (a derivative of "A Man of Words
... - something I was taught in the 4th grade...").

Regards,

Efrem Mc

Ref:

https://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=1373

or

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/a4-a-man-of-words.htm



On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:15 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm a bit worried about Microsoft steering the future of open-source projects' online collaboration and tooling with their GitHub purchase: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/06/04/microsoft-github-empowering-developers/
>
> I wonder if there's anything we need to rethink in terms of our project's dependence on GitHub PRs, etc.
>
> --emi
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists