You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@calcite.apache.org by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> on 2014/06/13 23:48:15 UTC
IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Hi,
what's the status of Optiq's way into the Apache Incubator?
I'm a bit under the impression that not much happened lately. Since I'm
currently went (or still going) through that process with Apache Flink
(formerly Stratosphere), I'm willing to help here a bit.
As far as I can see, the mailing lists have been created.
For the git repository, it seems that the INFRA team is waiting for the IP
clearance: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7776
Is there anything planned regarding IP clearance?
I think that Optiq is a project that consists mainly of individual
contributions. But I'm not sure about the other code-bases it contains
(eigenbase for example). I think we need advise from the mentors here.
Other steps that we should initiate soon:
- Open a name-search issue here:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
- Request JIRA (if the project wants that) from INFRA.
- Request a website. Therefore, the project has to decide what technology
to use. This document should give an overview over the options:
http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html (I can also try to answer questions to
the extend I understood the available options)
If you're giving me a go, I'm willing to open an issue for the namesearch
and request a JIRA instance.
Best,
Robert
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org>.
I filed the issue for the name search:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-51
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Julian Hyde <ju...@hydromatic.net> wrote:
> On Jun 18, 2014, at 2:31 AM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I've finished the import of the issues from GitHub to JIRA.
> >
> > I would recommend to switch over to JIRA now.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Thank you, Robert.
>
> I have disabled issues in github. (You can still create pull-requests.)
>
> As a side-effect, URLs for fixed issues no longer work, but since the
> numbers are preserved, you can easily find the issue. For example,
> https://github.com/julianhyde/optiq/issues/127 is now at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ-127.
>
> I have created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ-303 to migrate
> URLs in code.
>
> Julian
>
>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Julian Hyde <ju...@hydromatic.net>.
On Jun 18, 2014, at 2:31 AM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
> I've finished the import of the issues from GitHub to JIRA.
>
> I would recommend to switch over to JIRA now.
Agreed.
Thank you, Robert.
I have disabled issues in github. (You can still create pull-requests.)
As a side-effect, URLs for fixed issues no longer work, but since the numbers are preserved, you can easily find the issue. For example, https://github.com/julianhyde/optiq/issues/127 is now at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ-127.
I have created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ-303 to migrate URLs in code.
Julian
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org>.
I've finished the import of the issues from GitHub to JIRA.
I would recommend to switch over to JIRA now.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
> @Vladimir: Just to clarify, my tool is not an automated mirror that is
> synchronizing changes between the two systems. Its a one-time tool to do an
> initial import for the GitHub issues into JIRA. After that, we have to use
> JIRA for Optiq.
>
> I think there is no way around using JIRA as a issue-tracker.
> Our project is using the ASF-GitHub integration described here:
> https://blogs.apache.org/infra/entry/improved_integration_between_apache_and
> Other projects such as Spark or Mahout are also using that integration.
>
> It is a step into the right direction, because you can use the nice GitHub
> pull request feature (including line-wise comments) in combination with
> JIRA.
> You'll have a GitHub mirror of your Apache Git repository like this:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-flink
> All pull requests and comments trigger an email to the dev@ list. If the
> pull request contains a JIRA id (like FLINK-123), the bot will add a
> comment into the respective issue.
> I would recommend using that setup.
>
> I have no experience regarding Review board. But it seems that every
> developer has to install the "rbt" tool.
> I'm trying to do the import into JIRA today.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:10 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 17, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Vladimir Sitnikov <
>> sitnikov.vladimir@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Is there a way to connect JIRA to the repository so it can show the
>> actual
>> > changes applied to the repository?
>> >
>> > Is there a way to add a comment to a particular line? In github you just
>> > point-and-click.
>>
>> I don’t know all the details yet. But I do know that the Drill team tried
>> to continue using the github process and needed to pull back, somewhat, to
>> fit within the Apache process. For instance, they require patches
>> physically attached to jira cases (the patches might have been generated
>> from pull requests, but the process is jira+patches).
>>
>> If they tried, and failed, to work in the "github way" then we shouldn’t
>> try too hard. We’d blunt our swords when there are more important dragons
>> to slay (the join combinatorics beast springs to mind). I’ve noticed that
>> Apache infrastructure are continually making improvements to allow “modern”
>> forms of development, so things will get easier over time.
>>
>> Apache supports Review board (see e.g. how Hive use it [1]). If we
>> choose, we can use review board also.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Review+Board
>>
>>
>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org>.
@Vladimir: Just to clarify, my tool is not an automated mirror that is
synchronizing changes between the two systems. Its a one-time tool to do an
initial import for the GitHub issues into JIRA. After that, we have to use
JIRA for Optiq.
I think there is no way around using JIRA as a issue-tracker.
Our project is using the ASF-GitHub integration described here:
https://blogs.apache.org/infra/entry/improved_integration_between_apache_and
Other projects such as Spark or Mahout are also using that integration.
It is a step into the right direction, because you can use the nice GitHub
pull request feature (including line-wise comments) in combination with
JIRA.
You'll have a GitHub mirror of your Apache Git repository like this:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-flink
All pull requests and comments trigger an email to the dev@ list. If the
pull request contains a JIRA id (like FLINK-123), the bot will add a
comment into the respective issue.
I would recommend using that setup.
I have no experience regarding Review board. But it seems that every
developer has to install the "rbt" tool.
I'm trying to do the import into JIRA today.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:10 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 17, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Vladimir Sitnikov <
> sitnikov.vladimir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to connect JIRA to the repository so it can show the
> actual
> > changes applied to the repository?
> >
> > Is there a way to add a comment to a particular line? In github you just
> > point-and-click.
>
> I don’t know all the details yet. But I do know that the Drill team tried
> to continue using the github process and needed to pull back, somewhat, to
> fit within the Apache process. For instance, they require patches
> physically attached to jira cases (the patches might have been generated
> from pull requests, but the process is jira+patches).
>
> If they tried, and failed, to work in the "github way" then we shouldn’t
> try too hard. We’d blunt our swords when there are more important dragons
> to slay (the join combinatorics beast springs to mind). I’ve noticed that
> Apache infrastructure are continually making improvements to allow “modern”
> forms of development, so things will get easier over time.
>
> Apache supports Review board (see e.g. how Hive use it [1]). If we choose,
> we can use review board also.
>
> Julian
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Review+Board
>
>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com>.
On Jun 17, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Vladimir Sitnikov <si...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to connect JIRA to the repository so it can show the actual
> changes applied to the repository?
>
> Is there a way to add a comment to a particular line? In github you just
> point-and-click.
I don’t know all the details yet. But I do know that the Drill team tried to continue using the github process and needed to pull back, somewhat, to fit within the Apache process. For instance, they require patches physically attached to jira cases (the patches might have been generated from pull requests, but the process is jira+patches).
If they tried, and failed, to work in the "github way" then we shouldn’t try too hard. We’d blunt our swords when there are more important dragons to slay (the join combinatorics beast springs to mind). I’ve noticed that Apache infrastructure are continually making improvements to allow “modern” forms of development, so things will get easier over time.
Apache supports Review board (see e.g. how Hive use it [1]). If we choose, we can use review board also.
Julian
[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Review+Board
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Vladimir Sitnikov <si...@gmail.com>.
+1 for mirroring github, especially if JIRA is a must.
Is there a way to connect JIRA to the repository so it can show the actual
changes applied to the repository?
Is there a way to add a comment to a particular line? In github you just
point-and-click.
Vladimir
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Julian Hyde <ju...@hydromatic.net>.
+1 for that. Especially since you can keep the same numbers.
On Jun 16, 2014, at 11:34 PM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
> I just got the notification that JIRA has been set up for Optiq:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ
>
> Before we start opening issues there, I would like to discuss here if you
> want to import the GitHub issues into JIRA.
> It seems that Apache Infra is not doing these imports, but I wrote a tool
> that is using the REST API of JIRA to create the issues (including the
> closed ones).
> We were also able to maintain the same numbering of the issues (since we
> did not create any JIRA issues before the import). This is an example of an
> imported issue (in our project):
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-776
>
>
> I have not yet started with the name search, but its still on my todo list
> ;)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if I'm the right person to ask, when it comes to code license
>> questions ;) I've been wrong with how I handled it in our project:
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-flink-dev/201406.mbox/%3CCALuGr6bd78OKDPPAGCWk3Y%3D8C-H4jR9%3DO_g3mVZSvSMuif426A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>> I think for your personal contributions, an ICLA is sufficient (provided
>> you've not been doing it for your employer (if so, a SGA is required)).
>> The IP stuff was a bit simpler in our project, since it was created from
>> scratch at TU Berlin, so we basically needed a SGA and some ICLAs. But we
>> asked everybody to fill a ICLA, also those with only a few lines of code.
>>
>> I'll open the namesearch issue in the next days.
>> I've requested JIRA for Optiq:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7904
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Robert: Thanks for bringing this up — a push in the right direction is
>>> much needed, and appreciated. See answers inline.
>>>
>>> Other Optiq regulars: There are quite a few tasks to be completed during
>>> incubation, as we set up the project and prove that we can function as a
>>> meritocracy. We need your help! If you want to get more involved, now is
>>> the time.
>>>
>>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> what's the status of Optiq's way into the Apache Incubator?
>>>> I'm a bit under the impression that not much happened lately. Since I'm
>>>> currently went (or still going) through that process with Apache Flink
>>>> (formerly Stratosphere), I'm willing to help here a bit.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can see, the mailing lists have been created.
>>>> For the git repository, it seems that the INFRA team is waiting for the
>>> IP
>>>> clearance: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7776
>>>
>>> You are correct. IP clearance is the main blocker right now.
>>>
>>>> Is there anything planned regarding IP clearance?
>>>> I think that Optiq is a project that consists mainly of individual
>>>> contributions. But I'm not sure about the other code-bases it contains
>>>> (eigenbase for example). I think we need advise from the mentors here.
>>>
>>> Eigenbase is the biggest tranche of code. I am working with the Eigenbase
>>> IP owner to get an SGA.
>>>
>>> The second largest tranche of code is the stuff I’ve added to Optiq
>>> personally. I have filled out a CLA. I don’t know whether I need to fill
>>> out an SGA.
>>>
>>> For the other contributors to Optiq, I have been checking whether they
>>> have filled out CLAs (and if they are employees, whether their companies
>>> have filled out CCLAs). Several contributors have received emails from me
>>> over the last few days.
>>>
>>> The good news is that several contributors have already filled out
>>> CLAs/CCLAs, because they are already Apache committers/contributors.
>>> http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html
>>>
>>> Did your mentors say that we need CLAs from people who, say, contributed
>>> 5 lines of code two years ago?
>>>
>>>> Other steps that we should initiate soon:
>>>> - Open a name-search issue here:
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
>>>> - Request JIRA (if the project wants that) from INFRA.
>>>> - Request a website. Therefore, the project has to decide what
>>> technology
>>>> to use. This document should give an overview over the options:
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html (I can also try to answer questions
>>> to
>>>> the extend I understood the available options)
>>>
>>> I’ve not started on any of those.
>>>
>>>> If you're giving me a go, I'm willing to open an issue for the
>>> namesearch
>>>> and request a JIRA instance.
>>>
>>> Yes, please do those.
>>>
>>> Other regulars: I need someone to to look over the technologies, and also
>>> come up with ideas about the content of the web site. Would anyone like to
>>> do this?
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org>.
I just got the notification that JIRA has been set up for Optiq:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPTIQ
Before we start opening issues there, I would like to discuss here if you
want to import the GitHub issues into JIRA.
It seems that Apache Infra is not doing these imports, but I wrote a tool
that is using the REST API of JIRA to create the issues (including the
closed ones).
We were also able to maintain the same numbering of the issues (since we
did not create any JIRA issues before the import). This is an example of an
imported issue (in our project):
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-776
I have not yet started with the name search, but its still on my todo list
;)
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure if I'm the right person to ask, when it comes to code license
> questions ;) I've been wrong with how I handled it in our project:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-flink-dev/201406.mbox/%3CCALuGr6bd78OKDPPAGCWk3Y%3D8C-H4jR9%3DO_g3mVZSvSMuif426A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> I think for your personal contributions, an ICLA is sufficient (provided
> you've not been doing it for your employer (if so, a SGA is required)).
> The IP stuff was a bit simpler in our project, since it was created from
> scratch at TU Berlin, so we basically needed a SGA and some ICLAs. But we
> asked everybody to fill a ICLA, also those with only a few lines of code.
>
> I'll open the namesearch issue in the next days.
> I've requested JIRA for Optiq:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7904
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Robert: Thanks for bringing this up — a push in the right direction is
>> much needed, and appreciated. See answers inline.
>>
>> Other Optiq regulars: There are quite a few tasks to be completed during
>> incubation, as we set up the project and prove that we can function as a
>> meritocracy. We need your help! If you want to get more involved, now is
>> the time.
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > what's the status of Optiq's way into the Apache Incubator?
>> > I'm a bit under the impression that not much happened lately. Since I'm
>> > currently went (or still going) through that process with Apache Flink
>> > (formerly Stratosphere), I'm willing to help here a bit.
>> >
>> > As far as I can see, the mailing lists have been created.
>> > For the git repository, it seems that the INFRA team is waiting for the
>> IP
>> > clearance: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7776
>>
>> You are correct. IP clearance is the main blocker right now.
>>
>> > Is there anything planned regarding IP clearance?
>> > I think that Optiq is a project that consists mainly of individual
>> > contributions. But I'm not sure about the other code-bases it contains
>> > (eigenbase for example). I think we need advise from the mentors here.
>>
>> Eigenbase is the biggest tranche of code. I am working with the Eigenbase
>> IP owner to get an SGA.
>>
>> The second largest tranche of code is the stuff I’ve added to Optiq
>> personally. I have filled out a CLA. I don’t know whether I need to fill
>> out an SGA.
>>
>> For the other contributors to Optiq, I have been checking whether they
>> have filled out CLAs (and if they are employees, whether their companies
>> have filled out CCLAs). Several contributors have received emails from me
>> over the last few days.
>>
>> The good news is that several contributors have already filled out
>> CLAs/CCLAs, because they are already Apache committers/contributors.
>> http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html
>>
>> Did your mentors say that we need CLAs from people who, say, contributed
>> 5 lines of code two years ago?
>>
>> > Other steps that we should initiate soon:
>> > - Open a name-search issue here:
>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
>> > - Request JIRA (if the project wants that) from INFRA.
>> > - Request a website. Therefore, the project has to decide what
>> technology
>> > to use. This document should give an overview over the options:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html (I can also try to answer questions
>> to
>> > the extend I understood the available options)
>>
>> I’ve not started on any of those.
>>
>> > If you're giving me a go, I'm willing to open an issue for the
>> namesearch
>> > and request a JIRA instance.
>>
>> Yes, please do those.
>>
>> Other regulars: I need someone to to look over the technologies, and also
>> come up with ideas about the content of the web site. Would anyone like to
>> do this?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org>.
I'm not sure if I'm the right person to ask, when it comes to code license
questions ;) I've been wrong with how I handled it in our project:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-flink-dev/201406.mbox/%3CCALuGr6bd78OKDPPAGCWk3Y%3D8C-H4jR9%3DO_g3mVZSvSMuif426A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
I think for your personal contributions, an ICLA is sufficient (provided
you've not been doing it for your employer (if so, a SGA is required)).
The IP stuff was a bit simpler in our project, since it was created from
scratch at TU Berlin, so we basically needed a SGA and some ICLAs. But we
asked everybody to fill a ICLA, also those with only a few lines of code.
I'll open the namesearch issue in the next days.
I've requested JIRA for Optiq:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7904
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert: Thanks for bringing this up — a push in the right direction is
> much needed, and appreciated. See answers inline.
>
> Other Optiq regulars: There are quite a few tasks to be completed during
> incubation, as we set up the project and prove that we can function as a
> meritocracy. We need your help! If you want to get more involved, now is
> the time.
>
> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > what's the status of Optiq's way into the Apache Incubator?
> > I'm a bit under the impression that not much happened lately. Since I'm
> > currently went (or still going) through that process with Apache Flink
> > (formerly Stratosphere), I'm willing to help here a bit.
> >
> > As far as I can see, the mailing lists have been created.
> > For the git repository, it seems that the INFRA team is waiting for the
> IP
> > clearance: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7776
>
> You are correct. IP clearance is the main blocker right now.
>
> > Is there anything planned regarding IP clearance?
> > I think that Optiq is a project that consists mainly of individual
> > contributions. But I'm not sure about the other code-bases it contains
> > (eigenbase for example). I think we need advise from the mentors here.
>
> Eigenbase is the biggest tranche of code. I am working with the Eigenbase
> IP owner to get an SGA.
>
> The second largest tranche of code is the stuff I’ve added to Optiq
> personally. I have filled out a CLA. I don’t know whether I need to fill
> out an SGA.
>
> For the other contributors to Optiq, I have been checking whether they
> have filled out CLAs (and if they are employees, whether their companies
> have filled out CCLAs). Several contributors have received emails from me
> over the last few days.
>
> The good news is that several contributors have already filled out
> CLAs/CCLAs, because they are already Apache committers/contributors.
> http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html
>
> Did your mentors say that we need CLAs from people who, say, contributed 5
> lines of code two years ago?
>
> > Other steps that we should initiate soon:
> > - Open a name-search issue here:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
> > - Request JIRA (if the project wants that) from INFRA.
> > - Request a website. Therefore, the project has to decide what technology
> > to use. This document should give an overview over the options:
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html (I can also try to answer questions
> to
> > the extend I understood the available options)
>
> I’ve not started on any of those.
>
> > If you're giving me a go, I'm willing to open an issue for the namesearch
> > and request a JIRA instance.
>
> Yes, please do those.
>
> Other regulars: I need someone to to look over the technologies, and also
> come up with ideas about the content of the web site. Would anyone like to
> do this?
>
> Julian
>
>
Re: IP Clearance / Incubation Status
Posted by Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com>.
Robert: Thanks for bringing this up — a push in the right direction is much needed, and appreciated. See answers inline.
Other Optiq regulars: There are quite a few tasks to be completed during incubation, as we set up the project and prove that we can function as a meritocracy. We need your help! If you want to get more involved, now is the time.
On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Robert Metzger <rm...@apache.org> wrote:
> what's the status of Optiq's way into the Apache Incubator?
> I'm a bit under the impression that not much happened lately. Since I'm
> currently went (or still going) through that process with Apache Flink
> (formerly Stratosphere), I'm willing to help here a bit.
>
> As far as I can see, the mailing lists have been created.
> For the git repository, it seems that the INFRA team is waiting for the IP
> clearance: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7776
You are correct. IP clearance is the main blocker right now.
> Is there anything planned regarding IP clearance?
> I think that Optiq is a project that consists mainly of individual
> contributions. But I'm not sure about the other code-bases it contains
> (eigenbase for example). I think we need advise from the mentors here.
Eigenbase is the biggest tranche of code. I am working with the Eigenbase IP owner to get an SGA.
The second largest tranche of code is the stuff I’ve added to Optiq personally. I have filled out a CLA. I don’t know whether I need to fill out an SGA.
For the other contributors to Optiq, I have been checking whether they have filled out CLAs (and if they are employees, whether their companies have filled out CCLAs). Several contributors have received emails from me over the last few days.
The good news is that several contributors have already filled out CLAs/CCLAs, because they are already Apache committers/contributors. http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html
Did your mentors say that we need CLAs from people who, say, contributed 5 lines of code two years ago?
> Other steps that we should initiate soon:
> - Open a name-search issue here:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH
> - Request JIRA (if the project wants that) from INFRA.
> - Request a website. Therefore, the project has to decide what technology
> to use. This document should give an overview over the options:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html (I can also try to answer questions to
> the extend I understood the available options)
I’ve not started on any of those.
> If you're giving me a go, I'm willing to open an issue for the namesearch
> and request a JIRA instance.
Yes, please do those.
Other regulars: I need someone to to look over the technologies, and also come up with ideas about the content of the web site. Would anyone like to do this?
Julian