Handover timeline

[Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>]

Hello,

Now that NetBeans is officially incubating, could somebody tell me if there
is some sort of timeline or deadline regarding the code grant, trademarks
and netbeans.org handover?

Basically, will the handover happen at the end of incubation or during?

--emi

Re: Handover timeline

[Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>]

Le 08/10/16 � 20:03, John McDonnell a �crit :
> For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?
>
> Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
> content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
> ICLA?
>
> Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
> patches/PR's attached to an issue?
Clear and simple : no ICLA, no committership.

You can still push PR, or patches.

Re: Handover timeline

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...the code grant must happen sooner rather than later in the
> incubation....

Yes, until that happens we can only work on infrastructure and project
setup - which is also useful to have a smooth transition.

-Bertrand

Re: Handover timeline

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:09 PM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I was just a little confused on who/under what circumstances I needed to sign an ICLA...

As Emmanuel says the iCLA is required to become an Apache committer -
and the PPMC also must elect people to become committers, you don't
become one just by sending the iCLA.

However, filing an iCLA is also good for people who contribute code or
docs regularly, even before they become committers. The PPMC might ask
someone to file one if they do "big" contributions, or it's fine to
submit one pro-actively if you think you'll do that.

-Bertrand

Re: Handover timeline

[Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>]

Le 08/10/16 � 21:19, Geertjan Wielenga a �crit :
> Indeed Emilian. The code needs to be officially granted by Oracle -- right
> now the Git experiments being done are only experiments. The code needs to
> be officially granted to ASF and that will certainly be done and is
> absolutely a requirement. Oracle has already agreed to it otherwise we
> wouldn't have started this process. But indeed the signing and handing over
> of the actual agreement must still be done and is a priority.

As a reminder, nobody will be able to commit any code if it's not
present at the ASF :-) So feel free to submit code at Oracle, until
Oracle brings the code in due form to The ASF : you'll then be covered
fully, from a legal standpoint.

This is really a switch : before the grant, it's Oracle, after the
grant, we move the code to the ASF, and it's fully the ASF.

Re: Handover timeline

[Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>]

Indeed Emilian. The code needs to be officially granted by Oracle -- right
now the Git experiments being done are only experiments. The code needs to
be officially granted to ASF and that will certainly be done and is
absolutely a requirement. Oracle has already agreed to it otherwise we
wouldn't have started this process. But indeed the signing and handing over
of the actual agreement must still be done and is a priority.

Gj

On Saturday, October 8, 2016, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks guys,
>
> I was just a little confused on who/under what circumstances I needed to
> sign an ICLA.
>
> I had previously (2013) sent in an OCA but I was never added to the list
> on their website, so I assume I must have been rejected, as I had attempted
> to provide a patch to Netbeans.
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> > On 8 Oct 2016, at 20:01, Emilian Bold <emilian.bold@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > But there is this limbo state between entering incubation and the actual
> > code grant happening.
> >
> > Until the code grant happens and the repository has been migrated, any
> code
> > contribution must be made to Oracle.
> >
> > The Apache iCLA does not apply, you need to sign the Oracle Contributor
> > Agreement http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/oca-486395.html
> for
> > that.
> >
> > Which means the code grant must happen sooner rather than later in the
> > incubation.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> >
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <elecharny@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Le 08/10/16 à 20:03, John McDonnell a écrit :
> >>> For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?
> >>>
> >>> Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
> >>> content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
> >>> ICLA?
> >>>
> >>> Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
> >>> patches/PR's attached to an issue?
> >>
> >> And to answer the other side of your question: you an be made a
> >> committer, even if you haven't pushed *anything* in the code base. You
> >> just have to be invited by the PMC, and t submit your ICLA.
> >>
> >> We have some committer at Apache Directory who aren't coders, and who
> >> aren't updating the doco, but are still valuable (PR, etc). They even
> >> are part of the PMC :-). But, still, they need to submit an ICLA.
> >>
>
>

Re: Handover timeline

[John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>]

Thanks guys,

I was just a little confused on who/under what circumstances I needed to sign an ICLA.

I had previously (2013) sent in an OCA but I was never added to the list on their website, so I assume I must have been rejected, as I had attempted to provide a patch to Netbeans.

Regards

John

> On 8 Oct 2016, at 20:01, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> But there is this limbo state between entering incubation and the actual
> code grant happening.
> 
> Until the code grant happens and the repository has been migrated, any code
> contribution must be made to Oracle.
> 
> The Apache iCLA does not apply, you need to sign the Oracle Contributor
> Agreement http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/oca-486395.html for
> that.
> 
> Which means the code grant must happen sooner rather than later in the
> incubation.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> --emi
> 
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Le 08/10/16 à 20:03, John McDonnell a écrit :
>>> For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?
>>> 
>>> Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
>>> content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
>>> ICLA?
>>> 
>>> Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
>>> patches/PR's attached to an issue?
>> 
>> And to answer the other side of your question: you an be made a
>> committer, even if you haven't pushed *anything* in the code base. You
>> just have to be invited by the PMC, and t submit your ICLA.
>> 
>> We have some committer at Apache Directory who aren't coders, and who
>> aren't updating the doco, but are still valuable (PR, etc). They even
>> are part of the PMC :-). But, still, they need to submit an ICLA.
>> 

Re: Handover timeline

[Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>]

But there is this limbo state between entering incubation and the actual
code grant happening.

Until the code grant happens and the repository has been migrated, any code
contribution must be made to Oracle.

The Apache iCLA does not apply, you need to sign the Oracle Contributor
Agreement http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/oca-486395.html for
that.

Which means the code grant must happen sooner rather than later in the
incubation.

Am I missing something?



--emi

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Le 08/10/16 à 20:03, John McDonnell a écrit :
> > For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?
> >
> > Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
> > content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
> > ICLA?
> >
> > Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
> > patches/PR's attached to an issue?
>
> And to answer the other side of your question: you an be made a
> committer, even if you haven't pushed *anything* in the code base. You
> just have to be invited by the PMC, and t submit your ICLA.
>
> We have some committer at Apache Directory who aren't coders, and who
> aren't updating the doco, but are still valuable (PR, etc). They even
> are part of the PMC :-). But, still, they need to submit an ICLA.
>

Re: Handover timeline

[Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>]

Le 08/10/16 � 20:03, John McDonnell a �crit :
> For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?
>
> Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
> content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
> ICLA?
>
> Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
> patches/PR's attached to an issue?

And to answer the other side of your question: you an be made a
committer, even if you haven't pushed *anything* in the code base. You
just have to be invited by the PMC, and t submit your ICLA.

We have some committer at Apache Directory who aren't coders, and who
aren't updating the doco, but are still valuable (PR, etc). They even
are part of the PMC :-). But, still, they need to submit an ICLA.

Re: Handover timeline

[John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>]

For the ICLA, how much of a contributor do you need to be?

Lets say I want to start off helping move the tutorials, or existing
content into an apache wiki/confluence page etc, do I need to sign a
ICLA?

Or is it if I start providing wide ranging code changes outside of
patches/PR's attached to an issue?

John

On 8 October 2016 at 18:31, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the additions and clarifications. Our collective understanding
> in this project is getting more and more finetuned, great.
>
> Gj
>
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 08/10/16 à 19:12, Geertjan Wielenga a écrit :
>> > People on this mailing list, yes.
>> >
>> > Oracle and companies in general do not exist in Apache. Only indivudusl
>> > contributors exist. Together, as individual contributors, including
>> > contributors from many organizations (see the initial contributors list
>> in
>> > the proposal) will work on this together.
>> >
>> > No release without code grant, yup. No one will be able to contribute
>> > without an iCLA.
>>
>> Correct. Except for code that is pushed through a JIRA/Bugzilla ticket,
>> assuming it's traced back to an individual, and its IP is cleared (bit
>> most of the time, it's just patches, so that's fine)
>> >
>> > Corporate contributor agreements are not really relevant for Apache and
>> > seem to exist mainly to provide a feeling for individual contributors
>> that
>> > their company supports their work.
>> No only : it also protect the committer, from  legal standpoint.
>>
>> All companies don't allow their employee to work on a OSS project, even
>> during their free time, so obtaining their company's CCLA is a legal way
>> to make so that their contribution has been agred on.
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>



-- 
John

Re: Handover timeline

[Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>]

Thanks for the additions and clarifications. Our collective understanding
in this project is getting more and more finetuned, great.

Gj

On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le 08/10/16 à 19:12, Geertjan Wielenga a écrit :
> > People on this mailing list, yes.
> >
> > Oracle and companies in general do not exist in Apache. Only indivudusl
> > contributors exist. Together, as individual contributors, including
> > contributors from many organizations (see the initial contributors list
> in
> > the proposal) will work on this together.
> >
> > No release without code grant, yup. No one will be able to contribute
> > without an iCLA.
>
> Correct. Except for code that is pushed through a JIRA/Bugzilla ticket,
> assuming it's traced back to an individual, and its IP is cleared (bit
> most of the time, it's just patches, so that's fine)
> >
> > Corporate contributor agreements are not really relevant for Apache and
> > seem to exist mainly to provide a feeling for individual contributors
> that
> > their company supports their work.
> No only : it also protect the committer, from  legal standpoint.
>
> All companies don't allow their employee to work on a OSS project, even
> during their free time, so obtaining their company's CCLA is a legal way
> to make so that their contribution has been agred on.
>
> Emmanuel
>

Re: Handover timeline

[Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>]

Le 08/10/16 � 19:12, Geertjan Wielenga a �crit :
> People on this mailing list, yes.
>
> Oracle and companies in general do not exist in Apache. Only indivudusl
> contributors exist. Together, as individual contributors, including
> contributors from many organizations (see the initial contributors list in
> the proposal) will work on this together.
>
> No release without code grant, yup. No one will be able to contribute
> without an iCLA.

Correct. Except for code that is pushed through a JIRA/Bugzilla ticket,
assuming it's traced back to an individual, and its IP is cleared (bit
most of the time, it's just patches, so that's fine)
>
> Corporate contributor agreements are not really relevant for Apache and
> seem to exist mainly to provide a feeling for individual contributors that
> their company supports their work.
No only : it also protect the committer, from  legal standpoint.

All companies don't allow their employee to work on a OSS project, even
during their free time, so obtaining their company's CCLA is a legal way
to make so that their contribution has been agred on.

Emmanuel

Re: Handover timeline

[Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>]

People on this mailing list, yes.

Oracle and companies in general do not exist in Apache. Only indivudusl
contributors exist. Together, as individual contributors, including
contributors from many organizations (see the initial contributors list in
the proposal) will work on this together.

No release without code grant, yup. No one will be able to contribute
without an iCLA.

Corporate contributor agreements are not really relevant for Apache and
seem to exist mainly to provide a feeling for individual contributors that
their company supports their work.

Gj

On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't understand. Does "together" mean Oracle and the ASF or people on a
> mailing list?
>
> Is an incubating project allowed to make a release without the code grant?
>
> Do new contributors even need an iCLA before the code grant? Because what
> they actually need is the Oracle Contributor Agreement on file.
>
>
> --emi
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > All this we will be documenting and working out together once the Wiki is
> > available.
> >
> > Definitely, though, we will not leave the incubator without the code
> grant
> > and handover of d9maibs etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emilian Bold <emilian.bold@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Now that NetBeans is officially incubating, could somebody tell me if
> > there
> > > is some sort of timeline or deadline regarding the code grant,
> trademarks
> > > and netbeans.org handover?
> > >
> > > Basically, will the handover happen at the end of incubation or during?
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> >
>

Re: Handover timeline

[Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>]

I don't understand. Does "together" mean Oracle and the ASF or people on a
mailing list?

Is an incubating project allowed to make a release without the code grant?

Do new contributors even need an iCLA before the code grant? Because what
they actually need is the Oracle Contributor Agreement on file.


--emi

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:

> All this we will be documenting and working out together once the Wiki is
> available.
>
> Definitely, though, we will not leave the incubator without the code grant
> and handover of d9maibs etc.
>
> Gj
>
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Now that NetBeans is officially incubating, could somebody tell me if
> there
> > is some sort of timeline or deadline regarding the code grant, trademarks
> > and netbeans.org handover?
> >
> > Basically, will the handover happen at the end of incubation or during?
> >
> > --emi
> >
>

Re: Handover timeline

[Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>]

All this we will be documenting and working out together once the Wiki is
available.

Definitely, though, we will not leave the incubator without the code grant
and handover of d9maibs etc.

Gj

On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Now that NetBeans is officially incubating, could somebody tell me if there
> is some sort of timeline or deadline regarding the code grant, trademarks
> and netbeans.org handover?
>
> Basically, will the handover happen at the end of incubation or during?
>
> --emi
>