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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Bert Huijben <B....@competence.biz> on 2008/09/17 14:10:24 UTC
[RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Hi,
Subversion 1.5 started using MultiByteToWideChar for its utf-8
conversions on Windows, this made subversion incompatible with Windows
'95. Theoretically we might still support Windows NT 4.0 and Windows
'98, but I haven't heard seen user reports on them in a long time.
(The only recent issue I can remember was a sspi initialization issue on
NT 4.0 that didn't get much attention).
I know my binaries (SlikSVN) don't support anything less than Windows
2000 and CollabNet only certifies theirs for Windows XP+.
Why don't we document Subversion 1.6 to require at least Windows 2000?
Microsoft dropped normal support on Windows '98 on July 11, 2006 and on
NT 4.0 on January 1, 2005.
This would at least allow us to remove the dynamic loading for the
crypto-api and maybe also from the NTLM/SSPI support.
Bert
(Cygwin, 'the linux like environment for Windows' and probably the last
subversion binaries source, will drop Windows '9X support in their next
major release (1.7.0))
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RE: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by Bert Huijben <be...@vmoo.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blair Zajac [mailto:blair@orcaware.com]
> Sent: woensdag 17 september 2008 23:41
> To: C. Michael Pilato
> Cc: Stefan Küng <to...@gmail.com>, dev@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0
> with Subversion 1.6
>
> C. Michael Pilato wrote:
> > Stefan Küng wrote:
> >> It would be a small problem if you would drop support for win2k
> because
> >> some companies still have those around.
> >
> > Heh. *I* still use win2k when I need to do Windows stuff. :-)
>
> Ditto here. My PowerBook with VirtualPC can only handle W2K nicely.
r33161 removes the compatibility code from libsvn_ra_serf. (Assumes Windows '95 or NT 4.0 SP3 or later)
r33170 removes the compatibility code from libsvn_subr. (Assumes Windows 2000 or later)
TortoiseSVN's build via NAnt might need a minor update to link to crypt32.lib (libsvn_subr) and secur32.lib (libsvn_ra_serf) after these changes.
Thanks,
Bert
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with
Subversion 1.6
Posted by Blair Zajac <bl...@orcaware.com>.
C. Michael Pilato wrote:
> Stefan Küng wrote:
>> It would be a small problem if you would drop support for win2k because
>> some companies still have those around.
>
> Heh. *I* still use win2k when I need to do Windows stuff. :-)
Ditto here. My PowerBook with VirtualPC can only handle W2K nicely.
Blair
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with
Subversion 1.6
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
Stefan Küng wrote:
> It would be a small problem if you would drop support for win2k because
> some companies still have those around.
Heh. *I* still use win2k when I need to do Windows stuff. :-)
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with
Subversion 1.6
Posted by Stefan Küng <to...@gmail.com>.
Lieven Govaerts wrote:
> Bert Huijben wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Subversion 1.5 started using MultiByteToWideChar for its utf-8
>> conversions on Windows, this made subversion incompatible with Windows
>> '95. Theoretically we might still support Windows NT 4.0 and Windows
>> '98, but I haven't heard seen user reports on them in a long time.
>> (The only recent issue I can remember was a sspi initialization issue on
>> NT 4.0 that didn't get much attention).
> ..
>> This would at least allow us to remove the dynamic loading for the
>> crypto-api and maybe also from the NTLM/SSPI support.
>>
>
> Is there anything that we want to add that's not possible on '98 or NT4?
> What makes us want to do this change in 1.6 and not in say 1.7 or 1.8?
>
> Why not send this proposal to users@s.t.o to see if there are people
> still using these old platforms?
Speaking for TSVN, I can say that you won't find many people who still
use Win98 or NT4. When we first dropped support for those in TSVN, we
had *some* people still requesting it (I think it was a total of two
people who complained). And that was three years ago.
It would be a small problem if you would drop support for win2k because
some companies still have those around.
Stefan
--
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net
RE: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by "Bert Huijben (TCG)" <b....@competence.biz>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lieven Govaerts [mailto:svnlgo@mobsol.be]
> Sent: woensdag 17 september 2008 18:00
> To: Bert Huijben
> Cc: dev@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0
> with Subversion 1.6
>
> Bert Huijben wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Subversion 1.5 started using MultiByteToWideChar for its utf-8
> > conversions on Windows, this made subversion incompatible with
> Windows
> > '95. Theoretically we might still support Windows NT 4.0 and Windows
> > '98, but I haven't heard seen user reports on them in a long time.
> > (The only recent issue I can remember was a sspi initialization issue
> on
> > NT 4.0 that didn't get much attention).
> ..
> > This would at least allow us to remove the dynamic loading for the
> > crypto-api and maybe also from the NTLM/SSPI support.
> >
>
> Is there anything that we want to add that's not possible on '98 or
> NT4?
> What makes us want to do this change in 1.6 and not in say 1.7 or 1.8?
My guess is we are already broken for those Windows versions and aren't
going to test on it any more. And we make it ourselves very difficult in an
attempt to keep compatibility without making sure we are actually
compatible.
Several systems are always available on Windows 2000 and higher. Full
Unicode support and the crypto api are the primary ones. IPv6 is always
available on XP and higher and optional on Windows 2000.
You just have to write and maintain five times as many code to maintain the
code as optional. (LoadLibrary, GetProcAddr, typedefs, etc. etc.)
Zhakov just fixed some issues related to dynamically loading and unloading
the cryptoapi every time we use it. None of this would be necessary if we
just link against the library.
> Why not send this proposal to users@s.t.o to see if there are people
> still using these old platforms?
I don't think you can find subversion 1.5 binaries on the net that say they
support Windows '9X or NT 4.0 except for cygwin.
We can ask if somebody uses it, but you will need someone to build a '9X or
NT 4.0 release if none of us is going to provide one.
(The SlikSVN support address didn't get any mails on supporting other
Windows versions. Most mails there are thank you's for the Windows x64
release)
Stefan Küng wrote:
> It would be a small problem if you would drop support for win2k because
> some companies still have those around.
We see about 0.5% of the AnkhSVN 2.0 users is using Windows 2000 in our
update service log, so I won't suggest removing support for that. (I also
got specific reports on Windows 2000 support from users of the SharpSvn
library).
There is nothing to gain for us at this time by dropping Windows 2000
support right now.
Bert
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with
Subversion 1.6
Posted by Lieven Govaerts <sv...@mobsol.be>.
Bert Huijben wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Subversion 1.5 started using MultiByteToWideChar for its utf-8
> conversions on Windows, this made subversion incompatible with Windows
> '95. Theoretically we might still support Windows NT 4.0 and Windows
> '98, but I haven't heard seen user reports on them in a long time.
> (The only recent issue I can remember was a sspi initialization issue on
> NT 4.0 that didn't get much attention).
..
> This would at least allow us to remove the dynamic loading for the
> crypto-api and maybe also from the NTLM/SSPI support.
>
Is there anything that we want to add that's not possible on '98 or NT4?
What makes us want to do this change in 1.6 and not in say 1.7 or 1.8?
Why not send this proposal to users@s.t.o to see if there are people
still using these old platforms?
Lieven
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RE: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by Bert Huijben <B....@competence.biz>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norbert Unterberg [mailto:nunterberg@gmail.com]
> Sent: vrijdag 19 september 2008 8:31
> To: Ivan Zhakov
> Cc: Bert Huijben; dev@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0
> with Subversion 1.6
>
> 2008/9/17 Ivan Zhakov <ch...@gmail.com>:
> > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Bert Huijben
> <B....@competence.biz> wrote:
> >>
> >> Why don't we document Subversion 1.6 to require at least Windows
> 2000?
> >>
> > I'm +1 to drop support for Window 9x and NT 4.0, but to keep
> > supporting Windows 2000.
> > My arguments:
> > - Windows 9x and NT 4.0 officially unsupported by Microsoft for more
> > than two years.
> > - Most Windows binaries packages and clients does not support
Windows
> > 9x and NT 4.0
>
> What compiler was used to build the windows version of Subversion?
> Because Visual Studio 2008 dropped support for Windows 9x and NT, too.
> VS2008 is no longer able to generate executables that run on WIndows
> 9x/NT.
Hi,
The subversion project itself does not deliver binaries. The binaries on
the http://subversion.tigris.org/getting.html page are build by
individuals or separate projects (See the list at the bottom of that
page).
[Note: Isn't there an official maintainer of the tigris.org builds?]
The Windows project generator currently supports
* Visual C++ 6.0 (6.X)
* Visual C++ 2002 and 2003. (7.X)
* Visual C++ 2005 and 2008. (8.X/9.X)
There are users of mingw and cygwin using the make file generator, but I
don't know the details for these versions.
The 6.0 compiler and the 8.X/9.X line are supported very well.
(Frequently automatic testing)
The 7.X line does work (recently confirmed with AnkhSVN 1.0.4), but has
no active testing.
My best guess is the 7.X line will be dropped before the 6.0 version;
but certainly not today.
But what you probably asked:
The Tigris builds use 6.0 (The same as apache)
The Collabnet binaries used 6.0 for 1.5 but there were plans to move to
2008. (Not sure about the 1.5.2 status)
TortoiseSVN uses 2008.
And finally SharpSvn/AnkhSVN/SlikSVN uses 2005, but might move to 2008
with Subversion 1.6 or 1.7. (Tested with 2008)
Bert
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by Norbert Unterberg <nu...@gmail.com>.
2008/9/17 Ivan Zhakov <ch...@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Bert Huijben <B....@competence.biz> wrote:
>>
>> Why don't we document Subversion 1.6 to require at least Windows 2000?
>>
> I'm +1 to drop support for Window 9x and NT 4.0, but to keep
> supporting Windows 2000.
> My arguments:
> - Windows 9x and NT 4.0 officially unsupported by Microsoft for more
> than two years.
> - Most Windows binaries packages and clients does not support Windows
> 9x and NT 4.0
What compiler was used to build the windows version of Subversion?
Because Visual Studio 2008 dropped support for Windows 9x and NT, too.
VS2008 is no longer able to generate executables that run on WIndows
9x/NT.
Norbert
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by Ivan Zhakov <ch...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Bert Huijben <B....@competence.biz> wrote:
>
> Why don't we document Subversion 1.6 to require at least Windows 2000?
>
I'm +1 to drop support for Window 9x and NT 4.0, but to keep
supporting Windows 2000.
My arguments:
- Windows 9x and NT 4.0 officially unsupported by Microsoft for more
than two years.
- Most Windows binaries packages and clients does not support Windows
9x and NT 4.0
(VisualSVN and TortoiseSVN for example)
- Most recent posts in users@ mailing about Windows 9x and NT 4.0 are
also more than two
years old.
--
Ivan Zhakov
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Re: [RFC] Officially drop support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 with Subversion 1.6
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
+1
If people are still running those platforms *and* if they need
Subversion, then they can use 1.5.
Cheers,
-g
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Bert Huijben <B....@competence.biz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Subversion 1.5 started using MultiByteToWideChar for its utf-8
> conversions on Windows, this made subversion incompatible with Windows
> '95. Theoretically we might still support Windows NT 4.0 and Windows
> '98, but I haven't heard seen user reports on them in a long time.
> (The only recent issue I can remember was a sspi initialization issue on
> NT 4.0 that didn't get much attention).
>
>
> I know my binaries (SlikSVN) don't support anything less than Windows
> 2000 and CollabNet only certifies theirs for Windows XP+.
>
>
> Why don't we document Subversion 1.6 to require at least Windows 2000?
>
> Microsoft dropped normal support on Windows '98 on July 11, 2006 and on
> NT 4.0 on January 1, 2005.
>
>
> This would at least allow us to remove the dynamic loading for the
> crypto-api and maybe also from the NTLM/SSPI support.
>
> Bert
>
> (Cygwin, 'the linux like environment for Windows' and probably the last
> subversion binaries source, will drop Windows '9X support in their next
> major release (1.7.0))
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>
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