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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm> on 2006/12/11 10:08:56 UTC
[vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Hi all,
I would like to propose a release of the maven-ear-plugin.
Regards,
Graham
--
Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com>.
Graham,
On Monday 11 December 2006 14:24, Graham Leggett wrote:
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > Asking for a vote means that people can make preparations and actually
> > figure out what's going to be done for the next release. Create a
> > roadmap, field help and plan toward making something release worthy.
> > When all that is done, the work has been looked over and it is felt that
> > all the issues for the release have been dealt with then you call a
> > vote. When it's actually ready.
>
> When I asked as the the status of the ear plugin last week, the answer
> was that it was pretty much ready. I asked for a vote, but none came -
> probably because people were busy this time of year, so being proactive
> and knowing the drill I called the vote for the release, a perfectly
> reasonable thing to do.
Part of the reason is that right now, the maven team CANNOT do a release based
on the code in the tree. On Nov 1, the Apache requirements for a
release "changed" and the Maven team (in particular Jason and Joakim) have
been busy writing new plugins that would allow them to actually perform
releases based on the new requirements. Until those plugins are ready and
released, there is not really any point in calling other votes as releases
couldn't be made anyway (they would need to be vetoed on legal grounds).
That's probably one reason the vote never came. Another reason may be that
no-one with commit access has time to do the release. Releasing requires a
release manager to do the release. If no-one with commit access has time to
do it, you can ask/vote all you want, but it won't be done.
That all said, the required plugins should be released "shortly" at which
point releases of the other plugins could be started, if someone steps up to
actually do it.
--
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194
daniel.kulp@iona.com
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Stephane Nicoll <st...@gmail.com>.
I am +1 with Jason.
Graham, I understand the need and will call for a vote later today. I
am not sure I'll be able to do it this week though since I am at
Javapolis the whole week.
Cheers,
Stéphane
On 12/11/06, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
> On 11 Dec 06, at 12:26 PM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
>
> > On Mon, December 11, 2006 7:12 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> >
> >> You didn't ask for a release, you tried to call a vote. Very
> >> different things.
> >
> > Explain how these are different?
> >
>
> Asking for a vote means that people can make preparations and
> actually figure out what's going to be done for the next release.
> Create a roadmap, field help and plan toward making something release
> worthy. When all that is done, the work has been looked over and it
> is felt that all the issues for the release have been dealt with then
> you call a vote. When it's actually ready.
>
> >> That's an example of how it works and how
> >> you can participate. Do some work, get a say. It's pretty standard
> >> Apache stuff.
> >
> > I believe that as a long time ASF member I understand how things
> > work, and
> > again as an ASF member I am am expressing concern that your
> > response to my
> > call for a vote was not in the spirit of community building. The
> > ASF is
> > about community, not code.
>
> I am also a member, have been here for 6-7 years, helped many project
> migrate to the ASF, have volunteered more of my time, produced more
> code (probably should have documented it), and helped more people
> then a good majority at the ASF. Please get off your high horse. I
> could care less what you or anyone thinks of me, I will let my work
> speak for itself. And with that, I'm going to finish the release some
> folks have asked for.
>
> Jason.
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Graham
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Stephane Nicoll <st...@gmail.com>.
On 12/11/06, Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We are intentionally publishing the latest docs. (Okay, month-old by
> now... where does the time go?) It was discussed on the list before
> it happened, and was brought up again recently to make sure we're all
> on the same page:
>
> http://www.nabble.com/Publishing-plugin-sites-t2584348i20.html#a7751801
>
> (From the last message in the thread, it looks like Stéphane is aware
> of the missing "since" tags for the ear plugin. It might be fixed
> already and we just need to re-publish the site. Stéphane?)
Hello :)
Well it's tough because the HarModule is a new implementation of the
EarModule interface and it's not part as a Mojo parameter per se. So I
think I'll have to include an explicit warning there.
Will do.
Cheers,
Stéphane
>
> The real fix, of course, is more frequent releases. :)
>
> --
> Wendy
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 11 Dec 06, at 5:20 PM 11 Dec 06, Wendy Smoak wrote:
> On 12/11/06, Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm> wrote:
>
>> Yes (pointed this out originally last week) - for example:
>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-ear-plugin/
>> modules.html#harModule
>> (only available in v2.3-SNAPSHOT) and
>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-eclipse-plugin/make-
>> artifacts-mojo.html
>> (also only available in the snapshot).
>>
>> These pages indicate last updated 7 and 8 November respectively -
>> someone may have updated the site docs by accident.
>
> We are intentionally publishing the latest docs. (Okay, month-old by
> now... where does the time go?) It was discussed on the list before
> it happened, and was brought up again recently to make sure we're all
> on the same page:
>
> http://www.nabble.com/Publishing-plugin-sites-
> t2584348i20.html#a7751801
>
> (From the last message in the thread, it looks like Stéphane is aware
> of the missing "since" tags for the ear plugin. It might be fixed
> already and we just need to re-publish the site. Stéphane?)
>
> The real fix, of course, is more frequent releases. :)
>
We will get there very shortly.
Jason.
> --
> Wendy
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On 12/11/06, Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm> wrote:
> Yes (pointed this out originally last week) - for example:
> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-ear-plugin/modules.html#harModule
> (only available in v2.3-SNAPSHOT) and
> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-eclipse-plugin/make-artifacts-mojo.html
> (also only available in the snapshot).
>
> These pages indicate last updated 7 and 8 November respectively -
> someone may have updated the site docs by accident.
We are intentionally publishing the latest docs. (Okay, month-old by
now... where does the time go?) It was discussed on the list before
it happened, and was brought up again recently to make sure we're all
on the same page:
http://www.nabble.com/Publishing-plugin-sites-t2584348i20.html#a7751801
(From the last message in the thread, it looks like Stéphane is aware
of the missing "since" tags for the ear plugin. It might be fixed
already and we just need to re-publish the site. Stéphane?)
The real fix, of course, is more frequent releases. :)
--
Wendy
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
Brett Porter wrote:
> I don't understand this. Is there a field in the documentation that is
> only available in the snapshot and not documented as such?
Yes (pointed this out originally last week) - for example:
http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-ear-plugin/modules.html#harModule
(only available in v2.3-SNAPSHOT) and
http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-eclipse-plugin/make-artifacts-mojo.html
(also only available in the snapshot).
These pages indicate last updated 7 and 8 November respectively -
someone may have updated the site docs by accident.
Regards,
Graham
--
Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
On 12/12/2006, at 6:24 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:
> When I asked as the the status of the ear plugin last week, the
> answer was that it was pretty much ready. I asked for a vote, but
> none came - probably because people were busy this time of year, so
> being proactive and knowing the drill I called the vote for the
> release, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Sorry, but no, it's not. Votes can only be sensibly taken on code
that is ready to be released right now. As others have pointed out,
there were still changes to be made, and you need someone actually
able to cut the release.
It's entirely appropriate for you to call for a discussion on a
release to get things moving. It's entirely appropriate for you to
cast your vote on a release that you have tested and think is ready.
Calling for a vote is basically saying "DO IT NOW", which if you
aren't the one intending to be the one do it comes off as pretty
rude. That's why you got the response you did, and I expect I'd get
the same if I tried it over at apr or httpd.
Of course, don't let that stop you from contributing here in the future.
>
> The reason for the call for a vote is that right now the snapshot
> docs for the plugins are currently live in the maven documentation
> tree. Fixing this either means taking the docs down, or simply
> making releases of the plugins in question. Making releases is a
> step forward IMHO and a far better solution than taking the docs down.
I don't understand this. Is there a field in the documentation that
is only available in the snapshot and not documented as such? We
don't maintain separate versions of the documentation (to allow us to
make improvements to it that are relevant to old versions as well),
instead opting to outline when new things were introduced. If they
haven't been, that's a bug that should be fixed.
Cheers,
Brett
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Asking for a vote means that people can make preparations and actually
> figure out what's going to be done for the next release. Create a
> roadmap, field help and plan toward making something release worthy.
> When all that is done, the work has been looked over and it is felt that
> all the issues for the release have been dealt with then you call a
> vote. When it's actually ready.
When I asked as the the status of the ear plugin last week, the answer
was that it was pretty much ready. I asked for a vote, but none came -
probably because people were busy this time of year, so being proactive
and knowing the drill I called the vote for the release, a perfectly
reasonable thing to do.
The reason for the call for a vote is that right now the snapshot docs
for the plugins are currently live in the maven documentation tree.
Fixing this either means taking the docs down, or simply making releases
of the plugins in question. Making releases is a step forward IMHO and a
far better solution than taking the docs down.
> I am also a member, have been here for 6-7 years, helped many project
> migrate to the ASF, have volunteered more of my time, produced more code
> (probably should have documented it), and helped more people then a good
> majority at the ASF.
I'm sorry, I fail to see how "my contribution is bigger than theirs"
could possibly contribute anything to this discussion.
Regards,
Graham
--
Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 11 Dec 06, at 12:26 PM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On Mon, December 11, 2006 7:12 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
>> You didn't ask for a release, you tried to call a vote. Very
>> different things.
>
> Explain how these are different?
>
Asking for a vote means that people can make preparations and
actually figure out what's going to be done for the next release.
Create a roadmap, field help and plan toward making something release
worthy. When all that is done, the work has been looked over and it
is felt that all the issues for the release have been dealt with then
you call a vote. When it's actually ready.
>> That's an example of how it works and how
>> you can participate. Do some work, get a say. It's pretty standard
>> Apache stuff.
>
> I believe that as a long time ASF member I understand how things
> work, and
> again as an ASF member I am am expressing concern that your
> response to my
> call for a vote was not in the spirit of community building. The
> ASF is
> about community, not code.
I am also a member, have been here for 6-7 years, helped many project
migrate to the ASF, have volunteered more of my time, produced more
code (probably should have documented it), and helped more people
then a good majority at the ASF. Please get off your high horse. I
could care less what you or anyone thinks of me, I will let my work
speak for itself. And with that, I'm going to finish the release some
folks have asked for.
Jason.
>
> Regards,
> Graham
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
On Mon, December 11, 2006 7:12 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> You didn't ask for a release, you tried to call a vote. Very
> different things.
Explain how these are different?
> That's an example of how it works and how
> you can participate. Do some work, get a say. It's pretty standard
> Apache stuff.
I believe that as a long time ASF member I understand how things work, and
again as an ASF member I am am expressing concern that your response to my
call for a vote was not in the spirit of community building. The ASF is
about community, not code.
Regards,
Graham
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 11 Dec 06, at 11:45 AM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On Mon, December 11, 2006 6:10 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
>> Some who is not developing the code cannot call a vote. At least one
>> that's going to actually be voted on. I can't walk into the httpd
>> mailing list and ask for a release of httpd. Come on.
>
> I am not aware of any barrier stopping anybody on the httpd list or
> any
> ASF list asking for a release.
You didn't ask for a release, you tried to call a vote. Very
different things.
> Or to state this another way, how does a
> community get developed if new community members are not allowed to
> participate in the process?
Ah, like everyone else? Contribute patches for plugins you're
interested in, report issues? I don't see either patches, or any
feedback in JIRA about issues pertaining to the EAR plugin. I didn't
see anything in there from you at first glance, maybe I missed them.
You can participate all you want, I never said you couldn't participate.
>
> I am also concerned about the idea that only "code developers" have
> the
> right to express themselves within a project. There are many many
> valuable
> contributions that can be made without code, from bug reporting, to
> documentation, to helping users, to identifying usability problems
> in the
> wild with feedback.
I also never said that only developers can express themselves. Please
stop trying to assume what I think simply because I told you that you
haven't much right to call a vote on something you don't appear to
participate in much at all. Namely the EAR plugin.
As a group, and myself specifically, take lots of feedback from
people. We've given folks access to our site so non-developers can
participate in documentation, we created a sandbox so people like you
can actually create patches for things you're interested like the EAR
plugin, and created a Wiki space that's open for anyone to contribute
to. Jochen, for example, wanted to get the JAR plugin out and had
lots of patches, he wanted a release, he asked, I helped him apply
them and we released it. That's an example of how it works and how
you can participate. Do some work, get a say. It's pretty standard
Apache stuff.
Jason.
>
> Regards,
> Graham
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
On Mon, December 11, 2006 6:10 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Some who is not developing the code cannot call a vote. At least one
> that's going to actually be voted on. I can't walk into the httpd
> mailing list and ask for a release of httpd. Come on.
I am not aware of any barrier stopping anybody on the httpd list or any
ASF list asking for a release. Or to state this another way, how does a
community get developed if new community members are not allowed to
participate in the process?
I am also concerned about the idea that only "code developers" have the
right to express themselves within a project. There are many many valuable
contributions that can be made without code, from bug reporting, to
documentation, to helping users, to identifying usability problems in the
wild with feedback.
Regards,
Graham
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Mike Perham <mp...@gmail.com>.
To be fair to Graham, I think it would be reasonable to go to the
mailing list and say "There hasn't been an httpd release in 6 months.
Would you guys consider releasing it sometime soon?" I assume that's
the intent of his original message.
mike
On 12/11/06, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
> On 11 Dec 06, at 10:54 AM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
>
> > On Mon, December 11, 2006 3:37 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> >
> >> You cannot start a vote unless you are a committer.
> >
> > It does? I could not find anything like this at
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html. Binding votes are
> > cast by
> > PMC members as I understand (I am on the httpd PMC), but a call for
> > a vote
> > can come from anyone.
> >
>
> Some who is not developing the code cannot call a vote. At least one
> that's going to actually be voted on. I can't walk into the httpd
> mailing list and ask for a release of httpd. Come on.
>
> Jason.
>
> > Regards,
> > Graham
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 11 Dec 06, at 10:54 AM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On Mon, December 11, 2006 3:37 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
>> You cannot start a vote unless you are a committer.
>
> It does? I could not find anything like this at
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html. Binding votes are
> cast by
> PMC members as I understand (I am on the httpd PMC), but a call for
> a vote
> can come from anyone.
>
Some who is not developing the code cannot call a vote. At least one
that's going to actually be voted on. I can't walk into the httpd
mailing list and ask for a release of httpd. Come on.
Jason.
> Regards,
> Graham
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
On Mon, December 11, 2006 3:37 pm, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> You cannot start a vote unless you are a committer.
It does? I could not find anything like this at
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html. Binding votes are cast by
PMC members as I understand (I am on the httpd PMC), but a call for a vote
can come from anyone.
Regards,
Graham
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Re: [vote] release maven-ear-plugin
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
You cannot start a vote unless you are a committer.
Jason.
On 11 Dec 06, at 4:08 AM 11 Dec 06, Graham Leggett wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose a release of the maven-ear-plugin.
>
> Regards,
> Graham
> --
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