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Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Lars Eilebrecht <la...@hyperreal.org> on 2002/05/05 23:49:31 UTC
German documentation as a book
Hi,
as you may remember, I've mentioned a few a weeks ago, that
the german publisher MITP is interested in publishing a german
translation of our documentation (Apache 2.0).
I took quite some time until they got back to me after our
last discussion.
Well, they are still interested and are offering us one of
the following options:
1. Translation is done by us; MITP does the spelling review;
we provide the final text (in a format to be defined, e.g., XML);
and MITP takes care of the rest (layout, printing, etc.).
We get a certain amount of money for each sold copy of the book
(probably as much as a normal author would get).
2. Like 1., but translation is sponsored by MITP, i.e., they are
paying one or more individuals from the ASF for the translation;
we still get a certain amount of money for each sold copy, but
of course less than for option 1.
3. MITP takes care of everything; we still get some money for
each sold copy, but just as much or even less than for option 2.
We still get the source of the final text, but probably
in Winword format only.
For all three options the ASF will still own the copyright of
the text, i.e., the right to publish the text will be non-exclusive.
MITP has the following requirement: They are allowed to publish
the book as the official Apache HTTP Server documentation (including
use of the feather logo).
BTW, the book will probably be a paperback with a price of about
35 EUR.
My main question is know, do we want them to publish such a book
and is their requirement acceptable?
If the answer is yes, which option should/can we use?
With options 1 and 2 the problem is, that we still need at least
one to do the translation. I'm willing to help, but currently I don't
have much time to spend of this.
BTW, MITP has done a similar book for MySQL.
See http://www.mitp.de/datenbanken/0888/0888.htm
Any comments, anyone?
ciao...
--
Lars Eilebrecht - "Netscape is not a newsreader, and
lars@hyperreal.org - probable never shall be." (Tom Christiansen)
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Lars Eilebrecht <la...@hyperreal.org>.
According to Cliff Woolley:
> PS: AFAIK, permission to use call it "official" and use the Apache name
> and logo can only be granted by the board.
Of course, you're right, but I'm waiting for some more feedback here
on this list, because I bother the board with this issue.
ciao...
--
Lars Eilebrecht - "What you see is all you get."
lars@hyperreal.org (Brian Kernighan)
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Cliff Woolley <jw...@virginia.edu>.
On Sun, 5 May 2002, Cliff Woolley wrote:
> +1 (ie, what Joshua said.)
PS: AFAIK, permission to use call it "official" and use the Apache name
and logo can only be granted by the board. But other than that, the
general plan sounds fine to me.
--Cliff
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Woolley
cliffwoolley@yahoo.com
Charlottesville, VA
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Cliff Woolley <jw...@virginia.edu>.
On Sun, 5 May 2002, Joshua Slive wrote:
> This sounds fine to me, as long as they are fully aware that this would
> be a non-exclusive arrangement. We can't prevent any other publisher
> from using the results to make another book (although we could deny them
> the use of the logo, etc). I favor options 2,3,1 in that order.
+1 (ie, what Joshua said.)
--Cliff
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Woolley
cliffwoolley@yahoo.com
Charlottesville, VA
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Lars Eilebrecht <la...@hyperreal.org>.
According to Joshua Slive:
> This sounds fine to me, as long as they are fully aware that this would
> be a non-exclusive arrangement.
Yes, I've made that clear to them and they can go along with it.
ciao...
--
Lars Eilebrecht - If Windows is the answer...
lars@hyperreal.org - I forgot the question!
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
Lars Eilebrecht wrote:
> MITP has the following requirement: They are allowed to publish
> the book as the official Apache HTTP Server documentation (including
> use of the feather logo).
> BTW, the book will probably be a paperback with a price of about
> 35 EUR.
This sounds fine to me, as long as they are fully aware that this would
be a non-exclusive arrangement. We can't prevent any other publisher
from using the results to make another book (although we could deny them
the use of the logo, etc).
I favor options 2,3,1 in that order. Option 2 will obviously only work
if we can find someone willing to spend a significant chunk of time to
lead the project. I doubt that option 1 will work at all, given the
limited resources people have to devote to this sort of thing.
Translating back from winword to something we can use would be a
relatively huge job in itself, so option 3 might not provide us much
benefit. (But if we don't have the manpower to do 1 or 2, I have no
problem with them doing this on their own. It should certainly benefit
the German Apache community.)
Joshua.
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Astrid Keßler <ke...@kess-net.de>.
> as you may remember, I've mentioned a few a weeks ago, that
> the german publisher MITP is interested in publishing a german
> translation of our documentation (Apache 2.0).
As I mentioned some weeks before, I'm already doing the german
translation. Because of writing another book about the apache for the
same publisher vmi (which MITP belongs to) and because of the switch to
XML, the translation is going slow at the moment.
Imho it's needless to translate twice. Additced to the date they want to
publish I might not able to do the whole translation. But I'm already
working on it and won't stop. So I suggest, that ASF and MITP take the
running translation into consideration.
In my opinion option 2 (or 1) would be the best for ASF. And it will be
possible. I could require another german native speaker for translation,
too. We two plus ?? people from this list should be able to make the
work.
Kess
E-Mail: kess@kess-net.de
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sun, 5 May 2002, Lars Eilebrecht wrote:
> Well, they are still interested and are offering us one of
> the following options:
>
> 1. Translation is done by us; MITP does the spelling review;
> 2. Like 1., but translation is sponsored by MITP,
> 3. MITP takes care of everything;
I think that I like option 3, in that a professional translator would
take care of it, and we would be guaranteed of the best showing over
all. Having the finished result in Winword is less than ideal, but it
could perhaps be used in an effort to get a more complete german
translation of the docs. Option 2 works for me as well, assuming that
there is someone to take on such a project. As for myself, ich habe
meine deutsch fergessen. Or something like that. It's been 15 years or
so. While option 1 *sounds* wonderful on the face of it, I don't want to
volunteer someone else's time for no personal compensation.
Pending all the permission issues (feather, use of "official" wording),
I like this idea.
I'd also like to see an English edition, but that is likely a discussion
for another time.
--
Pilgrim, how you journey on the road you chose
To find out where the winds die and where the stories go
--Pilgrim (Enya - A Day Without Rain)
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Re: Summary (was German documentation as a book)
Posted by Astrid Keßler <ke...@kess-net.de>.
Hello Lars,
> Astrid, may I get a definite yes or no from you if you are
> available for the translation?
Yes, I'm available. And André Malo, the other German speaker I mentioned
before, too. We both want to work on the translation.
> Any ideas regarding time-frame? Can we provide the translation
> in an XML format to them or do we have to do something else
> like HTML?
XML is possible.
Does MITP has any suggestion for the time-frame?
I think, it will be dependend on the number of translators.
regards
Kess
--
E-Mail: kess@kess-net.de
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Summary (was German documentation as a book)
Posted by Lars Eilebrecht <la...@hyperreal.org>.
Hi,
so it looks like the general answer regarding the german book
is yes, while most are in favour of option 2 (or could at least
go along with that option).
Astrid, may I get a definite yes or no from you if you are
available for the translation?
Is there anyone else who would like to work on the translation
and/or on a review (I'm available for a review)?
Michael, how about you?
Any ideas regarding time-frame? Can we provide the translation
in an XML format to them or do we have to do something else
like HTML?
ciao...
--
Lars Eilebrecht - "If it works, don't fix it."
lars@hyperreal.org (Sam Rayburn)
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Re: German documentation as a book
Posted by di...@covalent.net.
You'd need the board to approave the logo - but given that this is clearly
non exclusive - and that clearly some ASF folks quality control is kept in
the loop - I would not expect any issues. (At least not from me :-).
Manpower is your number one concern.
And looking at the coffers of the ASF - which are healty: - I personally
would be of the opinion that from an overall perspective the ASF is better
off with a professional translated german boook and docs done by dedicated
people (and little if any extra money for the ASF) than with some herculan
efford by some lesser paid volunteers for the sake of causing some money
to flow into those coffers.
Dw.
--
Dirk-Willem van Gulik
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