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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org> on 2016/11/02 22:23:11 UTC
Incubator chat on Hipchat?
All,
Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
incubator room in hipchat?
John
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
I'm also thinking of it as a Q&A area, quick help, or quick discussions.
Not decision making, any decision making should be copied back to the list.
John
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:31 AM Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > So by default a HipChat conversation would be equivalent to using
> private@
> > except when somebody manually activates recording which produces a wiki
> > page with no email notification whatsoever?
>
> That is how I understand it. However, this sounds to me like a
> valuable thing to have. For example, it enables meetings to have a
> protocol.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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>
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So by default a HipChat conversation would be equivalent to using private@
> except when somebody manually activates recording which produces a wiki
> page with no email notification whatsoever?
That is how I understand it. However, this sounds to me like a
valuable thing to have. For example, it enables meetings to have a
protocol.
Jochen
--
The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
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Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
So by default a HipChat conversation would be equivalent to using private@
except when somebody manually activates recording which produces a wiki
page with no email notification whatsoever?
--emi
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Would hipchat be logged somewhere?
> >
> > Is it possible to be at least some weekly digest email?
>
> That might be possible. See INFRA-12328.
>
> Jochen
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/
> evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would hipchat be logged somewhere?
>
> Is it possible to be at least some weekly digest email?
That might be possible. See INFRA-12328.
Jochen
--
The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
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Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Would hipchat be logged somewhere?
Is it possible to be at least some weekly digest email?
Pe joi, 3 noiembrie 2016, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> a scris:
> All,
>
> Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
> it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> incubator room in hipchat?
>
> John
>
--
--emi
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Remember:
> "If it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen" ...
Yes.
IMO chat channels can be fine at the "coffee machine discussion"
level, anything more substantial must be discussed here.
-Bertrand
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Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
I think it sounds good with a chat for more practical questions, like "How
can I add userX to systemY on our infrastructure..?", but not for policy or
release questions. And if there is no reply on the chat, then send an email
anyway.
A chat can also be welcoming for new potential podlings to ask initial
questions, e.g. if they haven't got a champion yet. HipChat allows
anonymous sign-ins, so "newbies" won't need an ASF account. We would
obviously need to link to the chat from our web site for that :-)
Remember:
"If it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen"
On 3 Nov 2016 7:32 am, "Evan Hughes" <eh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @mike Official content does need to be on the mailing list but small
> discussions could be made on the hipchat channel.
>
> ~ Evan
>
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 at 17:19 Mike Jumper <mi...@guac-dev.org> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 3, 2016 00:02, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > it sounds like a good idea. I would allow "direct" communication
> between
> > the podling guys and the mentors/shepherd (to discuss release or report
> > content).
> > >
> >
> > Wouldn't release/content discussion be best conducted on the mailing
> lists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > - Mike
> >
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Evan Hughes <eh...@gmail.com>.
@mike Official content does need to be on the mailing list but small
discussions could be made on the hipchat channel.
~ Evan
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 at 17:19 Mike Jumper <mi...@guac-dev.org> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 2016 00:02, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > it sounds like a good idea. I would allow "direct" communication between
> the podling guys and the mentors/shepherd (to discuss release or report
> content).
> >
>
> Wouldn't release/content discussion be best conducted on the mailing lists?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Mike
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
For discussion yes, but I meant more for quick help like account
creation, detail/form of the report, etc.
Regards
JB
On 11/03/2016 08:19 AM, Mike Jumper wrote:
> On Nov 3, 2016 00:02, "Jean-Baptiste Onofr�" <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> it sounds like a good idea. I would allow "direct" communication between
> the podling guys and the mentors/shepherd (to discuss release or report
> content).
>>
>
> Wouldn't release/content discussion be best conducted on the mailing lists?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Mike
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofr�
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
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Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Mike Jumper <mi...@guac-dev.org>.
On Nov 3, 2016 00:02, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> it sounds like a good idea. I would allow "direct" communication between
the podling guys and the mentors/shepherd (to discuss release or report
content).
>
Wouldn't release/content discussion be best conducted on the mailing lists?
Thanks,
- Mike
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi John,
it sounds like a good idea. I would allow "direct" communication between
the podling guys and the mentors/shepherd (to discuss release or report
content).
Regards
JB
On 11/02/2016 11:23 PM, John D. Ament wrote:
> All,
>
> Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
> it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> incubator room in hipchat?
>
> John
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofr�
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
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Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Evan Hughes <eh...@gmail.com>.
Slack is more stable than hipchat, some of the infra staff have had
difficulties with new versions of the desktop client breaking.
On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 at 21:04 Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Personally I tried gitter as GitHub was to come on-site at work, and
> planned to use it, and the experience was quite horrible. Look at its app
> reviews; I tend to agree with the low ones which get into its UX and
> usability. Even creating a room or finding existing groups didn't seem to
> work well (or at all) on mobile; at least Android. I may need to watch some
> tutorials on it, but at least with Slack things just work; I agree the
> limits etc can be annoying and working around them with bots or not relying
> on logs etc. HipChat is OK from my experience, but Slack is unrivaled, but
> certainly can be subjective.
>
> Wade
>
> On Nov 4, 2016 3:48 AM, "Stian Soiland-Reyes" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I think for external chats we should rather recommend Gitter, which has
> > open rooms (anonymous lurking allowed) and "unlimited" searchable logs
> (and
> > unlimited number of users) and don't require workarounds with a sign up
> > bot.
> >
> > We did the same for Taverna, we tried an IRC chat, but its synchronous
> > nature and lack of modern web support meant it was not too useful as we
> > span timezones across the globe. We tried HipChat, but it somehow didn't
> > kick off.
> >
> > Now that we tried Gitter (https://gitter.im/apache/taverna) we've seen a
> > large increase in brainstorming and developer activity (and have to keep
> > more of a watch to actively push decisions back to list. :-)). I think
> its
> > email notifications is a good way to lure people back (or scare away!).
> >
> > The downside is that participation requires login with Twitter or GitHub,
> > which some communities might have reasonable objections to.
> >
> > On 4 Nov 2016 2:33 am, "Wade Chandler" <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > For the NetBeans community we had been using IRC, but then setup Slack,
> > and
> > > it has seen an uptick over IRC which per logging and notifications had
> > been
> > > harder to support and stay connected. We setup a sign up bot at
> > > https://netbeans.signup.team, and we also have a chat room
> > hooked/bridged
> > > to our IRC channel, so we service both as a collective; good on mobiles
> > > too. We have as an item to talk to Slack about OSS and
> > limits/restrictions.
> > >
> > > We don't intend it to replace mailing lists, Jira, nor the wiki, but
> look
> > > at it as dynamic chats and community building allowing to have hack,
> > help,
> > > or real time hang time sessions. We didn't know about the Apache
> HipChat,
> > > but I must confess I much prefer Slack having used both during my day
> > job.
> > >
> > > Wade
> > >
> > > On Nov 3, 2016 10:50 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made
> use
> > of
> > > > > it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup
> an
> > > > > incubator room in hipchat?
> > > >
> > > > How about just promoting the #asf IRC channel on freenode.net?
> > > >
> > > > https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf
> > > >
> > > > Better for podling contributors to make connections to the wider ASF
> > > > rather than to limit themselves to the current incubator, and the
> #asf
> > > > channel is already well established.
> > > >
> > > > We could even embed the Kiwi IRC client in an iframe on the Incubator
> > > > website, at say http://incubator.apache.org/chat alongside guidance
> > > > documenting how we expect real-time communications to be used.
> > > >
> > > > <iframe src="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf"
> > > > style="border:0; width:100%; height:450px;"></iframe>
> > > >
> > > > Marvin Humphrey
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
Personally I tried gitter as GitHub was to come on-site at work, and
planned to use it, and the experience was quite horrible. Look at its app
reviews; I tend to agree with the low ones which get into its UX and
usability. Even creating a room or finding existing groups didn't seem to
work well (or at all) on mobile; at least Android. I may need to watch some
tutorials on it, but at least with Slack things just work; I agree the
limits etc can be annoying and working around them with bots or not relying
on logs etc. HipChat is OK from my experience, but Slack is unrivaled, but
certainly can be subjective.
Wade
On Nov 4, 2016 3:48 AM, "Stian Soiland-Reyes" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> I think for external chats we should rather recommend Gitter, which has
> open rooms (anonymous lurking allowed) and "unlimited" searchable logs (and
> unlimited number of users) and don't require workarounds with a sign up
> bot.
>
> We did the same for Taverna, we tried an IRC chat, but its synchronous
> nature and lack of modern web support meant it was not too useful as we
> span timezones across the globe. We tried HipChat, but it somehow didn't
> kick off.
>
> Now that we tried Gitter (https://gitter.im/apache/taverna) we've seen a
> large increase in brainstorming and developer activity (and have to keep
> more of a watch to actively push decisions back to list. :-)). I think its
> email notifications is a good way to lure people back (or scare away!).
>
> The downside is that participation requires login with Twitter or GitHub,
> which some communities might have reasonable objections to.
>
> On 4 Nov 2016 2:33 am, "Wade Chandler" <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > For the NetBeans community we had been using IRC, but then setup Slack,
> and
> > it has seen an uptick over IRC which per logging and notifications had
> been
> > harder to support and stay connected. We setup a sign up bot at
> > https://netbeans.signup.team, and we also have a chat room
> hooked/bridged
> > to our IRC channel, so we service both as a collective; good on mobiles
> > too. We have as an item to talk to Slack about OSS and
> limits/restrictions.
> >
> > We don't intend it to replace mailing lists, Jira, nor the wiki, but look
> > at it as dynamic chats and community building allowing to have hack,
> help,
> > or real time hang time sessions. We didn't know about the Apache HipChat,
> > but I must confess I much prefer Slack having used both during my day
> job.
> >
> > Wade
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2016 10:50 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use
> of
> > > > it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> > > > incubator room in hipchat?
> > >
> > > How about just promoting the #asf IRC channel on freenode.net?
> > >
> > > https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf
> > >
> > > Better for podling contributors to make connections to the wider ASF
> > > rather than to limit themselves to the current incubator, and the #asf
> > > channel is already well established.
> > >
> > > We could even embed the Kiwi IRC client in an iframe on the Incubator
> > > website, at say http://incubator.apache.org/chat alongside guidance
> > > documenting how we expect real-time communications to be used.
> > >
> > > <iframe src="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf"
> > > style="border:0; width:100%; height:450px;"></iframe>
> > >
> > > Marvin Humphrey
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
I think for external chats we should rather recommend Gitter, which has
open rooms (anonymous lurking allowed) and "unlimited" searchable logs (and
unlimited number of users) and don't require workarounds with a sign up bot.
We did the same for Taverna, we tried an IRC chat, but its synchronous
nature and lack of modern web support meant it was not too useful as we
span timezones across the globe. We tried HipChat, but it somehow didn't
kick off.
Now that we tried Gitter (https://gitter.im/apache/taverna) we've seen a
large increase in brainstorming and developer activity (and have to keep
more of a watch to actively push decisions back to list. :-)). I think its
email notifications is a good way to lure people back (or scare away!).
The downside is that participation requires login with Twitter or GitHub,
which some communities might have reasonable objections to.
On 4 Nov 2016 2:33 am, "Wade Chandler" <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> For the NetBeans community we had been using IRC, but then setup Slack, and
> it has seen an uptick over IRC which per logging and notifications had been
> harder to support and stay connected. We setup a sign up bot at
> https://netbeans.signup.team, and we also have a chat room hooked/bridged
> to our IRC channel, so we service both as a collective; good on mobiles
> too. We have as an item to talk to Slack about OSS and limits/restrictions.
>
> We don't intend it to replace mailing lists, Jira, nor the wiki, but look
> at it as dynamic chats and community building allowing to have hack, help,
> or real time hang time sessions. We didn't know about the Apache HipChat,
> but I must confess I much prefer Slack having used both during my day job.
>
> Wade
>
> On Nov 3, 2016 10:50 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
> > > it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> > > incubator room in hipchat?
> >
> > How about just promoting the #asf IRC channel on freenode.net?
> >
> > https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf
> >
> > Better for podling contributors to make connections to the wider ASF
> > rather than to limit themselves to the current incubator, and the #asf
> > channel is already well established.
> >
> > We could even embed the Kiwi IRC client in an iframe on the Incubator
> > website, at say http://incubator.apache.org/chat alongside guidance
> > documenting how we expect real-time communications to be used.
> >
> > <iframe src="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf"
> > style="border:0; width:100%; height:450px;"></iframe>
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
For the NetBeans community we had been using IRC, but then setup Slack, and
it has seen an uptick over IRC which per logging and notifications had been
harder to support and stay connected. We setup a sign up bot at
https://netbeans.signup.team, and we also have a chat room hooked/bridged
to our IRC channel, so we service both as a collective; good on mobiles
too. We have as an item to talk to Slack about OSS and limits/restrictions.
We don't intend it to replace mailing lists, Jira, nor the wiki, but look
at it as dynamic chats and community building allowing to have hack, help,
or real time hang time sessions. We didn't know about the Apache HipChat,
but I must confess I much prefer Slack having used both during my day job.
Wade
On Nov 3, 2016 10:50 AM, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
> > it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> > incubator room in hipchat?
>
> How about just promoting the #asf IRC channel on freenode.net?
>
> https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf
>
> Better for podling contributors to make connections to the wider ASF
> rather than to limit themselves to the current incubator, and the #asf
> channel is already well established.
>
> We could even embed the Kiwi IRC client in an iframe on the Incubator
> website, at say http://incubator.apache.org/chat alongside guidance
> documenting how we expect real-time communications to be used.
>
> <iframe src="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf"
> style="border:0; width:100%; height:450px;"></iframe>
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Infra recently started leveraging hipchat. A few PMCs have made use of
> it. I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> incubator room in hipchat?
How about just promoting the #asf IRC channel on freenode.net?
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf
Better for podling contributors to make connections to the wider ASF
rather than to limit themselves to the current incubator, and the #asf
channel is already well established.
We could even embed the Kiwi IRC client in an iframe on the Incubator
website, at say http://incubator.apache.org/chat alongside guidance
documenting how we expect real-time communications to be used.
<iframe src="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#asf"
style="border:0; width:100%; height:450px;"></iframe>
Marvin Humphrey
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