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Posted to torque-dev@db.apache.org by Thomas Fischer <tf...@apache.org> on 2006/02/01 23:09:15 UTC
[Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
The vote has passed. The voting thread is
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-torque-dev/200601.mbox/%3cOFB53BE621.F8CF199D-ONC1257101.004139B7-C1257101.00427D41@seitenbau.net%3e
The following votes were cast:
+1:
Scott Eade (PMC member)
Thomas Fischer (PMC Member)
Thomas Vandahl (committer)
Patrick Carl
Greg Monroe
0:
Martin Goulet
Jeffrey D. Brake
I will check what we need to do in order to set up Torque in jira during
the next few days, and ask teh jira admins to do it.
Thomas
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Scott Eade <se...@backstagetech.com.au>.
Mick Wever wrote:
> Has no one offered to host the torque project's tracking system?
> (This surprises me, maybe just a lack of cross-posting...)
> Would the torque community accept it hosted by someone other than apache?
> (For example being hosted at www.solitone.org/scarab/ as a module
> along-side scarab? [This would be up to Hussayn to decide...])
> Or is this a tied relationship?
>
Thanks for the offer, but I am pretty sure the ASF prefers that project
resources are hosted on ASF infrastructure.
Scott
--
Scott Eade
Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
http://www.backstagetech.com.au
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 2/9/06, Mick Wever <mi...@wever.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:21:09 +0100, Thomas Fischer wrote:
>
> > The apache subprojects do not have their own infrastructure, but the apache
> > infrastructure team provides and maintains it. I am very grateful for this,
> > because it allows me to keep focused on improving Torque. Most members of
> > the infrastructure team have been at least reluctant to do anything to
> > maintain scarab, let alone to migrate it.
>
> Fair enough.
> Has no one offered to host the torque project's tracking system?
> (This surprises me, maybe just a lack of cross-posting...)
> Would the torque community accept it hosted by someone other than apache?
> (For example being hosted at www.solitone.org/scarab/ as a module
> along-side scarab? [This would be up to Hussayn to decide...])
> Or is this a tied relationship?
There's a very strong desire to keep the ASF data on ASF hardware -
source control, email, bug reports, webpages, wiki. I suspect there'd
be a lot of opposition to having Torque move out to a separately
hosted bug tracker.
You can imagine the oversight chaos there'd be if every subproject and
project were choosing their infrastructure individually. Also the
general confusion to the user community of things being all over the
place.
Hen
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Mick Wever <mi...@wever.org>.
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:21:09 +0100, Thomas Fischer wrote:
> The apache subprojects do not have their own infrastructure, but the apache
> infrastructure team provides and maintains it. I am very grateful for this,
> because it allows me to keep focused on improving Torque. Most members of
> the infrastructure team have been at least reluctant to do anything to
> maintain scarab, let alone to migrate it.
Fair enough.
Has no one offered to host the torque project's tracking system?
(This surprises me, maybe just a lack of cross-posting...)
Would the torque community accept it hosted by someone other than apache?
(For example being hosted at www.solitone.org/scarab/ as a module
along-side scarab? [This would be up to Hussayn to decide...])
Or is this a tied relationship?
mck
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 2/9/06, Mick Wever <mi...@wever.org> wrote:
> > The vote has passed.
>
>
> This is a shame. And I think the wrong decision has been made. Honestly.
It is a shame - I'm liking the bits I'm hearing about the new Scarab.
The current Apache Scarab is terrible from my point of view as a user
as it's not open enough - but that's just because it doesn't seem to
allow non-logged in users to see anything.
The main issue though is as Thomas has said; a third bug tracker for 2
subprojects is a big commitment for the infra team to be making - both
in terms of people and physical resource.
> First and most importantly JIRA is not opensource. This should be a a
> considerable concern for open source developers.
In a GPL, let's make everything open, world; sure. One of the key
points of Apache is to allow commercial business to thrive on our code
without enforcing more than is necessary on their licensing options.
So having companies like Atlassian is one of the reasons for Apache -
therefore using them is eating our own dogfood.
I agree on choosing open-source first though. If its a straight choice
between two bug trackers, I'd choose the open one. I hate using
Bugzilla, so I've always opted for Jira.
> Second, scarab uses torque. Projects should "eat-their-own-dogfood".
More of a "eat-their-dog" than dogfood :)
Hen
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Thomas Fischer <fi...@seitenbau.net>.
Most of your arguments have been considered in this decision. You might
also want to check the last discussion and vote on this half a year ago,
which has not passed:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-torque-dev/200508.mbox/%3cdcpu2v$vq7$1@tangens.hometree.net%3e
The reasons for my personal decision are the following:
The apache subprojects do not have their own infrastructure, but the apache
infrastructure team provides and maintains it. I am very grateful for this,
because it allows me to keep focused on improving Torque. Most members of
the infrastructure team have been at least reluctant to do anything to
maintain scarab, let alone to migrate it. There are a couple of reasons for
this as far as I can see. One reason might be that there are two other bug
trackers at the moment, (bugzilla and jira) which are much more heavily
used than scarab. Of these, bugzilla is also open source, so any projects
who wish to use an open source bug tracker can do so. Another reason might
be that noone on the infrastructure team is sufficiently familiar with
scarab.
Being grateful for the apache infrastructure team's work, I would like to
give something in return. Half a year ago, in a flash of enthusiasm, I
have offered to help maintain the scarab instance, but it dit turn out that
I did not have the time to do it given all the things that need to be done
in Torque. So the least thing that the Torque developers can do is to make
their work easy, in this way in helping to decrease the number of bug
trackers which they have to support.
Thomas
news <ne...@sea.gmane.org> schrieb am 09.02.2006 13:19:46:
> > The vote has passed.
>
>
> This is a shame. And I think the wrong decision has been made. Honestly.
>
> First and most importantly JIRA is not opensource. This should be a a
> considerable concern for open source developers.
>
> Second, scarab uses torque. Projects should "eat-their-own-dogfood".
>
> Third, is that Scarab IMHO is more advanced than JIRA. At work we are
> considering moving from JIRA to Scarab, even though we have paid (the
very
> expensive, $10,000) license, simply because Scarab offers more than JIRA
> can. JIRA is bugzilla all over again forcing you into there way of doing
> things. Scarab let's you *really* design your own workflow. I've been
> using JIRA that last month and have been vastly dissappointed. Very
> restrictive issue heirarchy to start with! BUT this comparison is against
> Scarab's trunk, it would not be true against the last beta version even.
> The scarab version you guys have been using I would not even recognise
> anymore, so much has changed. Lack of momentum I don't think so. Check
out
> the nightly test installation if you don't believe me. Scarab's
> performance has also been largely improved.
>
> mick.
>
> ps Scarab also provides subversion integration.
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Re: [Result] [Vote] migrate from Scarab to jira
Posted by Mick Wever <mi...@wever.org>.
> The vote has passed.
This is a shame. And I think the wrong decision has been made. Honestly.
First and most importantly JIRA is not opensource. This should be a a
considerable concern for open source developers.
Second, scarab uses torque. Projects should "eat-their-own-dogfood".
Third, is that Scarab IMHO is more advanced than JIRA. At work we are
considering moving from JIRA to Scarab, even though we have paid (the very
expensive, $10,000) license, simply because Scarab offers more than JIRA
can. JIRA is bugzilla all over again forcing you into there way of doing
things. Scarab let's you *really* design your own workflow. I've been
using JIRA that last month and have been vastly dissappointed. Very
restrictive issue heirarchy to start with! BUT this comparison is against
Scarab's trunk, it would not be true against the last beta version even.
The scarab version you guys have been using I would not even recognise
anymore, so much has changed. Lack of momentum I don't think so. Check out
the nightly test installation if you don't believe me. Scarab's
performance has also been largely improved.
mick.
ps Scarab also provides subversion integration.
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