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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> on 2015/12/01 05:46:17 UTC
Websites at podling.apache.org
Greets,
It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
http://podling.incubator.apache.org
http://podling.apache.org
See for example:
http://systemml.apache.org/
http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
http://mynewt.apache.org/
http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
following pages:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
And this issue brought up that both podling.a.o and podling.i.a.o started
working at some point and a large unrelated branding issue.
I've responded to the infra ticket, my hope is that they move forward on it
at this point.
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 8:14 AM Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> I'm managing most of the transition to the ASF infrastructure on
> FreeMarker's side, so let me answer. My intent was that until the
> project manages to graduate, freemarker.org will continue to be the
> "official" and only FreeMarker homepage (as it is for 10 years or so),
> only the content comes from the ASF web server. Of course there we
> would show the incubation disclaimer or whatever is required, like
> perhaps an incubator logo. I was told that the
> freemarker.incubator.apache.org URL is required to exist, so I said
> that it should just redirect to freemaker.org. (We don't need two
> homepages, one for normal users and one for contributors.) To my
> surprise, when the domain was transferred to ASF, freemaker.org has
> redirected to freemarker.incubator.apache.org instead. So I have asked
> trademarks@apache.org if it's OK if it works the other way around
> (freemarker.incubator.apache.org redirects to freemarker.org), and
> after Shane Curcuru said the he sees no problem with that, I have
> opened an issue for it on
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-10787. It's not like it
> impedes development, but it's still unresolved, after two months now.
> (I didn't know that this will trigger a such a long discussion, though
> I suppose as you let in projects established elsewhere, this will come
> up sometimes anyway.)
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Daniel Dekany
>
>
> Thursday, January 14, 2016, 9:02:16 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:43 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> ...Can we move freemarker forward to not impede them?..
> >
> > I'm not sure what you are asking, can you clarify?
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>.
I'm managing most of the transition to the ASF infrastructure on
FreeMarker's side, so let me answer. My intent was that until the
project manages to graduate, freemarker.org will continue to be the
"official" and only FreeMarker homepage (as it is for 10 years or so),
only the content comes from the ASF web server. Of course there we
would show the incubation disclaimer or whatever is required, like
perhaps an incubator logo. I was told that the
freemarker.incubator.apache.org URL is required to exist, so I said
that it should just redirect to freemaker.org. (We don't need two
homepages, one for normal users and one for contributors.) To my
surprise, when the domain was transferred to ASF, freemaker.org has
redirected to freemarker.incubator.apache.org instead. So I have asked
trademarks@apache.org if it's OK if it works the other way around
(freemarker.incubator.apache.org redirects to freemarker.org), and
after Shane Curcuru said the he sees no problem with that, I have
opened an issue for it on
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-10787. It's not like it
impedes development, but it's still unresolved, after two months now.
(I didn't know that this will trigger a such a long discussion, though
I suppose as you let in projects established elsewhere, this will come
up sometimes anyway.)
--
Thanks,
Daniel Dekany
Thursday, January 14, 2016, 9:02:16 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:43 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> ...Can we move freemarker forward to not impede them?..
>
> I'm not sure what you are asking, can you clarify?
>
> -Bertrand
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:43 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Can we move freemarker forward to not impede them?..
I'm not sure what you are asking, can you clarify?
-Bertrand
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
I saw no response to this. Can we move freemarker forward to not impede
them?
On Jan 7, 2016 07:44, "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> So... I stumbled upon this as every time I send someone a link to
> freemarker, we get bounced all over the place (I've been a long time
> freemarker user).
>
> Where do things stand on this right now? We let groovy keep its old URL.
> Is it a major problem that both URLs work? Is it a problem if only the old
> URL works? (btw, from what I remember, podling.a.o used to not work so I'm
> not sure what changed).
>
> FWIW, I saw tamaya listed on here. Tamaya has the incubator logo, so if
> you feel its not prominent could you explain why its not prominent?
>
> John
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:27 PM Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Niall Pemberton
>> > <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> > Attached a patch to:
>> > >> > 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
>> > >> > 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
>> >
>> > Thanks, Niall.
>> >
>> > For the time being, I'm -1 and going to play devil's advocate, but I'm
>> > willing
>> > to be persuaded.
>> >
>> > > https://paste.apache.org/nQTK
>> >
>> > OK, now the can of worms opens up...
>> >
>> > Compliance with the existing podling website branding requirements is
>> > poor[1].
>> >
>>
>> From your review 13 compliant, 13 have 1 Issue, 10 have >1 issue. So I
>> would disagree with the characterization of poor. You could say 72% one
>> issue or less - maybe thats good!!
>>
>>
>> > What good is adding another requirement for people to ignore[2]?
>> >
>>
>> If we want podlings to have incubator branding, then IMO a logo would have
>> far more effect than a URL.
>>
>> But I don't think non-compliance is a good argument against - should be
>> judged on branding criteria
>>
>>
>>
>> > If the website is at `podling.apache.org`, then why not the mailing
>> lists,
>> > too?
>> >
>> > Some podlings find labeling releases "incubating" inconvenient for both
>> > techncical and social reasons. Why not dispense with that requirement
>> as
>> > well?
>> >
>> > Some podlings find the requirement to brand themselves as "incubating"
>> > inconvenient for marketing materials (including the podling website)
>> > because
>> > the public may interpret it as implying an immature codebase.
>> Arguably, it
>> > will help our podlings succeed if we simply stop differentiating them
>> from
>> > TLPs. So why do we distinguish podlings from TLPs at all?
>> >
>>
>> Good points, I won't argue against them and the pTLP route imposes no such
>> branding requirements. All I'm saying is that *if* we're going to impose
>> *incubator* branding, then IMO the url is probably pretty ineffective and
>> not a big change and my proposal to make the incubator logo more prominent
>> would be better from a branding perspective. Having said that, I don't see
>> much point in the *incubator* branding requirement, was just trying to
>> work
>> within the existing policy.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Finally, to what extent does the Incubator have the responsibility to
>> > involve
>> > other entities at Apache (e.g. Marketing, Brand Management, Board) in
>> > decisions to weaken podling branding requirements?
>> >
>>
>> Yes, I think the brand VP should give an opinion. Presumably there was
>> some
>> involvement when the policy was put in place.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > My perspective on all these questions is that a balance has been struck
>> > between inconvenience to the podling, the right of the the general
>> public
>> > to
>> > know that a podling is incubating (and thus may put out releases that
>> don't
>> > adhere to all aspects of Apache policy, may not have a mature community,
>> > etc.), and the reputatation of the Foundation. And therefore, reducing
>> > inconvenience to the podling, while a worthy goal, is not sufficient
>> > justification on its own to disrupt that balance.
>> >
>> > Better to seek out other ways to reduce podling inconvenience -- e.g.
>> is it
>> > possible to carve out some exception for Geode templates?
>> >
>>
>> Good point. Lets see how this goes.
>>
>> Niall
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Marvin Humphrey
>> >
>> > [1] http://s.apache.org/3NU
>> > [2] This is a tangential point, but I'm not enthused about replacing a
>> > faceless technical mechanism with a policy that requires
>> individuals to
>> > serve as enforcers. I think that injects a negative dynamic into
>> the
>> > community.
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
So... I stumbled upon this as every time I send someone a link to
freemarker, we get bounced all over the place (I've been a long time
freemarker user).
Where do things stand on this right now? We let groovy keep its old URL.
Is it a major problem that both URLs work? Is it a problem if only the old
URL works? (btw, from what I remember, podling.a.o used to not work so I'm
not sure what changed).
FWIW, I saw tamaya listed on here. Tamaya has the incubator logo, so if you
feel its not prominent could you explain why its not prominent?
John
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:27 PM Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Niall Pemberton
> > <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> > Attached a patch to:
> > >> > 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
> > >> > 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
> >
> > Thanks, Niall.
> >
> > For the time being, I'm -1 and going to play devil's advocate, but I'm
> > willing
> > to be persuaded.
> >
> > > https://paste.apache.org/nQTK
> >
> > OK, now the can of worms opens up...
> >
> > Compliance with the existing podling website branding requirements is
> > poor[1].
> >
>
> From your review 13 compliant, 13 have 1 Issue, 10 have >1 issue. So I
> would disagree with the characterization of poor. You could say 72% one
> issue or less - maybe thats good!!
>
>
> > What good is adding another requirement for people to ignore[2]?
> >
>
> If we want podlings to have incubator branding, then IMO a logo would have
> far more effect than a URL.
>
> But I don't think non-compliance is a good argument against - should be
> judged on branding criteria
>
>
>
> > If the website is at `podling.apache.org`, then why not the mailing
> lists,
> > too?
> >
> > Some podlings find labeling releases "incubating" inconvenient for both
> > techncical and social reasons. Why not dispense with that requirement as
> > well?
> >
> > Some podlings find the requirement to brand themselves as "incubating"
> > inconvenient for marketing materials (including the podling website)
> > because
> > the public may interpret it as implying an immature codebase. Arguably,
> it
> > will help our podlings succeed if we simply stop differentiating them
> from
> > TLPs. So why do we distinguish podlings from TLPs at all?
> >
>
> Good points, I won't argue against them and the pTLP route imposes no such
> branding requirements. All I'm saying is that *if* we're going to impose
> *incubator* branding, then IMO the url is probably pretty ineffective and
> not a big change and my proposal to make the incubator logo more prominent
> would be better from a branding perspective. Having said that, I don't see
> much point in the *incubator* branding requirement, was just trying to work
> within the existing policy.
>
>
>
> >
> > Finally, to what extent does the Incubator have the responsibility to
> > involve
> > other entities at Apache (e.g. Marketing, Brand Management, Board) in
> > decisions to weaken podling branding requirements?
> >
>
> Yes, I think the brand VP should give an opinion. Presumably there was some
> involvement when the policy was put in place.
>
>
> >
> > My perspective on all these questions is that a balance has been struck
> > between inconvenience to the podling, the right of the the general public
> > to
> > know that a podling is incubating (and thus may put out releases that
> don't
> > adhere to all aspects of Apache policy, may not have a mature community,
> > etc.), and the reputatation of the Foundation. And therefore, reducing
> > inconvenience to the podling, while a worthy goal, is not sufficient
> > justification on its own to disrupt that balance.
> >
> > Better to seek out other ways to reduce podling inconvenience -- e.g. is
> it
> > possible to carve out some exception for Geode templates?
> >
>
> Good point. Lets see how this goes.
>
> Niall
>
>
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > [1] http://s.apache.org/3NU
> > [2] This is a tangential point, but I'm not enthused about replacing a
> > faceless technical mechanism with a policy that requires individuals
> to
> > serve as enforcers. I think that injects a negative dynamic into the
> > community.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Attached a patch to:
> >> > 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
> >> > 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
>
> Thanks, Niall.
>
> For the time being, I'm -1 and going to play devil's advocate, but I'm
> willing
> to be persuaded.
>
> > https://paste.apache.org/nQTK
>
> OK, now the can of worms opens up...
>
> Compliance with the existing podling website branding requirements is
> poor[1].
>
>From your review 13 compliant, 13 have 1 Issue, 10 have >1 issue. So I
would disagree with the characterization of poor. You could say 72% one
issue or less - maybe thats good!!
> What good is adding another requirement for people to ignore[2]?
>
If we want podlings to have incubator branding, then IMO a logo would have
far more effect than a URL.
But I don't think non-compliance is a good argument against - should be
judged on branding criteria
> If the website is at `podling.apache.org`, then why not the mailing lists,
> too?
>
> Some podlings find labeling releases "incubating" inconvenient for both
> techncical and social reasons. Why not dispense with that requirement as
> well?
>
> Some podlings find the requirement to brand themselves as "incubating"
> inconvenient for marketing materials (including the podling website)
> because
> the public may interpret it as implying an immature codebase. Arguably, it
> will help our podlings succeed if we simply stop differentiating them from
> TLPs. So why do we distinguish podlings from TLPs at all?
>
Good points, I won't argue against them and the pTLP route imposes no such
branding requirements. All I'm saying is that *if* we're going to impose
*incubator* branding, then IMO the url is probably pretty ineffective and
not a big change and my proposal to make the incubator logo more prominent
would be better from a branding perspective. Having said that, I don't see
much point in the *incubator* branding requirement, was just trying to work
within the existing policy.
>
> Finally, to what extent does the Incubator have the responsibility to
> involve
> other entities at Apache (e.g. Marketing, Brand Management, Board) in
> decisions to weaken podling branding requirements?
>
Yes, I think the brand VP should give an opinion. Presumably there was some
involvement when the policy was put in place.
>
> My perspective on all these questions is that a balance has been struck
> between inconvenience to the podling, the right of the the general public
> to
> know that a podling is incubating (and thus may put out releases that don't
> adhere to all aspects of Apache policy, may not have a mature community,
> etc.), and the reputatation of the Foundation. And therefore, reducing
> inconvenience to the podling, while a worthy goal, is not sufficient
> justification on its own to disrupt that balance.
>
> Better to seek out other ways to reduce podling inconvenience -- e.g. is it
> possible to carve out some exception for Geode templates?
>
Good point. Lets see how this goes.
Niall
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/3NU
> [2] This is a tangential point, but I'm not enthused about replacing a
> faceless technical mechanism with a policy that requires individuals to
> serve as enforcers. I think that injects a negative dynamic into the
> community.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Attached a patch to:
>> > 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
>> > 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
Thanks, Niall.
For the time being, I'm -1 and going to play devil's advocate, but I'm willing
to be persuaded.
> https://paste.apache.org/nQTK
OK, now the can of worms opens up...
Compliance with the existing podling website branding requirements is poor[1].
What good is adding another requirement for people to ignore[2]?
If the website is at `podling.apache.org`, then why not the mailing lists,
too?
Some podlings find labeling releases "incubating" inconvenient for both
techncical and social reasons. Why not dispense with that requirement as
well?
Some podlings find the requirement to brand themselves as "incubating"
inconvenient for marketing materials (including the podling website) because
the public may interpret it as implying an immature codebase. Arguably, it
will help our podlings succeed if we simply stop differentiating them from
TLPs. So why do we distinguish podlings from TLPs at all?
Finally, to what extent does the Incubator have the responsibility to involve
other entities at Apache (e.g. Marketing, Brand Management, Board) in
decisions to weaken podling branding requirements?
My perspective on all these questions is that a balance has been struck
between inconvenience to the podling, the right of the the general public to
know that a podling is incubating (and thus may put out releases that don't
adhere to all aspects of Apache policy, may not have a mature community,
etc.), and the reputatation of the Foundation. And therefore, reducing
inconvenience to the podling, while a worthy goal, is not sufficient
justification on its own to disrupt that balance.
Better to seek out other ways to reduce podling inconvenience -- e.g. is it
possible to carve out some exception for Geode templates?
Marvin Humphrey
[1] http://s.apache.org/3NU
[2] This is a tangential point, but I'm not enthused about replacing a
faceless technical mechanism with a policy that requires individuals to
serve as enforcers. I think that injects a negative dynamic into the
community.
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Attached a patch to:
> > 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
> > 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
>
> Thanks, Niall. However, the general@incubator list is configured to
> strip attachments, so the patch didn't arrive. You probably see it in
> your Gmail client because of Gmail's funky deduping, but the rest of
> us don't have it.
>
Ah OK, good to know.
>
> I suggest either using <https://paste.apache.org> or opening an
> INCUBATOR Jira. (Inlining the patch in the body of the email will
> probably result in line wrap messiness.)
>
>
https://paste.apache.org/nQTK
Niall
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Attached a patch to:
> 1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
> 2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
Thanks, Niall. However, the general@incubator list is configured to
strip attachments, so the patch didn't arrive. You probably see it in
your Gmail client because of Gmail's funky deduping, but the rest of
us don't have it.
I suggest either using <https://paste.apache.org> or opening an
INCUBATOR Jira. (Inlining the patch in the body of the email will
probably result in line wrap messiness.)
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As Rob said, if they're following the other branding requirements, then
> do
> > we need to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
>
> Well, I just looked[1] and many podling websites aren't following the
> branding
> requirements. And some bury the required elements, so they basically look
> like TLPs.
>
> At least a website URL with "incubator.apache.org" in it is something we
> don't
> have to police.
>
True, but I dont think the URL adds much to the branding. Having the
incubator logo prominent on the page would be more effective.
> > For me (and on behalf of Geode) I think we she leave the current status
> quo.
>
> The "status quo" is existing policy. The temporary availability of
> $(PODLING).apache.org websites is the result of a misconfiguration -- a
> technical error.
>
> If you do not like the proposed technical solution of installing 302/307
> redirects, please suggest another technical solution.
>
> If you instead wish to propose a change to podling branding policy, please
> provide a patch for discussion.
>
Attached a patch to:
1. change from poding.i.a.o to poding.a.o
2. Require the incubator logo and that it be prominent
Niall
>
> Regardless, we need to do *something*. It's not acceptable to leave policy
> and implementation in conflict.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] Review of podling websites for compliance with selected podling
> branding
> guidelines, 2015-12-04.
>
> D = Missing incubation disclaimer.
> I = First mention doesn't indicate incubating status.
> L = Missing Incubator logo. (This is a "SHOULD", not a "MUST".)
>
> --- http://apex.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://asterixdb.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://atlas.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://batchee.incubator.apache.org/
> --L http://incubator.apache.org/blur
> --L http://commonsrdf.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://datafu.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://eagle.incubator.apache.org/
> -IL http://freemarker.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://geode.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://hawq.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://horn.incubator.apache.org/
> D-L http://htrace.incubator.apache.org/
> DIL http://johnzon.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://logging.apache.org/log4cxx/
> --- http://madlib.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://mrql.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://myriad.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/
> -I- http://ranger.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://samoa.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://sentry.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://singa.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://sirona.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://slider.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://streams.incubator.apache.org/
> --L http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
> DI- http://tamaya.incubator.apache.org/
> --L http://taverna.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://tinkerpop.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://trafodion.incubator.apache.org/
> -I- http://twill.incubator.apache.org/
> DIL http://unomi.incubator.apache.org/
> --- http://incubator.apache.org/wave/
> --L http://zeppelin.incubator.apache.org/
>
> No website:
>
> http://cmda.incubator.apache.org/
> http://concerted.incubator.apache.org/
> http://cotton.incubator.apache.org/
> http://impala.incubator.apache.org/
> http://kudu.incubator.apache.org/
> http://openaz.incubator.apache.org/
> http://rya.incubator.apache.org/
> http://s2graph.incubator.apache.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As Rob said, if they're following the other branding requirements, then do
> we need to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
Well, I just looked[1] and many podling websites aren't following the branding
requirements. And some bury the required elements, so they basically look
like TLPs.
At least a website URL with "incubator.apache.org" in it is something we don't
have to police.
> For me (and on behalf of Geode) I think we she leave the current status quo.
The "status quo" is existing policy. The temporary availability of
$(PODLING).apache.org websites is the result of a misconfiguration -- a
technical error.
If you do not like the proposed technical solution of installing 302/307
redirects, please suggest another technical solution.
If you instead wish to propose a change to podling branding policy, please
provide a patch for discussion.
Regardless, we need to do *something*. It's not acceptable to leave policy
and implementation in conflict.
Marvin Humphrey
[1] Review of podling websites for compliance with selected podling branding
guidelines, 2015-12-04.
D = Missing incubation disclaimer.
I = First mention doesn't indicate incubating status.
L = Missing Incubator logo. (This is a "SHOULD", not a "MUST".)
--- http://apex.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://asterixdb.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://atlas.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://batchee.incubator.apache.org/
--L http://incubator.apache.org/blur
--L http://commonsrdf.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://datafu.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://eagle.incubator.apache.org/
-IL http://freemarker.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://geode.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://hawq.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://horn.incubator.apache.org/
D-L http://htrace.incubator.apache.org/
DIL http://johnzon.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://logging.apache.org/log4cxx/
--- http://madlib.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://mrql.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://myriad.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/
-I- http://ranger.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://samoa.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://sentry.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://singa.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://sirona.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://slider.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://streams.incubator.apache.org/
--L http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
DI- http://tamaya.incubator.apache.org/
--L http://taverna.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://tinkerpop.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://trafodion.incubator.apache.org/
-I- http://twill.incubator.apache.org/
DIL http://unomi.incubator.apache.org/
--- http://incubator.apache.org/wave/
--L http://zeppelin.incubator.apache.org/
No website:
http://cmda.incubator.apache.org/
http://concerted.incubator.apache.org/
http://cotton.incubator.apache.org/
http://impala.incubator.apache.org/
http://kudu.incubator.apache.org/
http://openaz.incubator.apache.org/
http://rya.incubator.apache.org/
http://s2graph.incubator.apache.org/
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Well, the transition is not that hard if:
> >
> > a) during incubation podling.a.o redirects (302/307) to podling.i.a.o
> >
> > b) after graduation podling.i.a.o redirects (301) to podling.a.o
> >
> > right?
>
> Discussion has quieted down. I plan to claim lazy consensus in a
> couple of days and address this situation by opening an INFRA Jira
> requesting that redirects be installed per above. I'll post the link
> to that issue in this thread.
>
I agree with what you said earlier - "incubation should be rigorous and
short" - and that is possible for some podlings (existing open source
projects with a diverse, meritocratic community) - but much harder for
others (single company, closed source).
One reason for allowing the podling.a.o that has come up for geode is that
they need to relocate their Schema locations from their corporate site - if
they have to do it once to podling.i.a.o and then later to podling.a.o then
its doubly painful for their users. While we don't want podlings to get
comfortable, we do want them to succeed and to mininise the pain of
transition to their users.
As Rob said, if they're following the other branding requirements, then do
we need to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
For me (and on behalf of Geode) I think we she leave the current status quo.
Niall
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>.
+1
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 4:33 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Well, the transition is not that hard if:
> >
> > a) during incubation podling.a.o redirects (302/307) to podling.i.a.o
> >
> > b) after graduation podling.i.a.o redirects (301) to podling.a.o
> >
> > right?
>
> Discussion has quieted down. I plan to claim lazy consensus in a
> couple of days and address this situation by opening an INFRA Jira
> requesting that redirects be installed per above. I'll post the link
> to that issue in this thread.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Sergio Fernández
Partner Technology Manager
Redlink GmbH
m: +43 6602747925
e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
w: http://redlink.co
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org> wrote:
> Well, the transition is not that hard if:
>
> a) during incubation podling.a.o redirects (302/307) to podling.i.a.o
>
> b) after graduation podling.i.a.o redirects (301) to podling.a.o
>
> right?
Discussion has quieted down. I plan to claim lazy consensus in a
couple of days and address this situation by opening an INFRA Jira
requesting that redirects be installed per above. I'll post the link
to that issue in this thread.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>.
Well, the transition is not that hard if:
a) during incubation podling.a.o redirects (302/307) to podling.i.a.o
b) after graduation podling.i.a.o redirects (301) to podling.a.o
right?
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> I seem to remember that INFRA used to do redirects but decided to stop
> doing them because it made the transition to TLP easier for podlings post
> graduation because their "final" URL was active from as soon as they start
> (assuming they don't name change during incubation)
>
> Pretty much any of the current crop of podlings can be resolved via
> podling.apache.org AFAICT
>
> e.g.
>
> http://eagle.apache.org
>
> This does look to be at odds with the branding requirements but provided
> that the podling is following other requirements e.g. clear use of
> Incubating in the name, incubation disclaimer etc I don't see that the
> IPMC necessarily needs to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
>
> Rob
>
> On 01/12/2015 07:21, "Sergio Fernández" <se...@redlink.co>
> wrote:
>
> >They used to have a redirects. But you' re right, looks like not
> >anymore...
> >So we should ask INFRA to get a 307 resolving the TLP domains.
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Greets,
> >>
> >> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
> >>
> >> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
> >> http://podling.apache.org
> >>
> >> See for example:
> >>
> >> http://systemml.apache.org/
> >> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
> >> http://mynewt.apache.org/
> >> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
> >>
> >> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
> >> following pages:
> >>
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
> >>
> >> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
> >>
> >> Marvin Humphrey
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Sergio Fernández
> >Partner Technology Manager
> >Redlink GmbH
> >m: +43 6602747925
> >e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
> >w: http://redlink.co
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Sergio Fernández
Partner Technology Manager
Redlink GmbH
m: +43 6602747925
e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
w: http://redlink.co
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> I seem to remember that INFRA used to do redirects but decided to stop
> doing them because it made the transition to TLP easier for podlings post
> graduation because their "final" URL was active from as soon as they start
> (assuming they don't name change during incubation)
Right, at the link posted by Niall elsethread. The implications of that
email snuck by me when it was posted -- it mentions DNS and email, but not
websites. I guess I should have read it more closely. In any case, if a
change in branding policy had been intended, that should have been made
explicit.
Since nothing has changed about the branding policy, what we have is an
implementation issue, and we need to figure out what actions we will request
of Infra to remedy it.
> This does look to be at odds with the branding requirements but provided
> that the podling is following other requirements e.g. clear use of
> Incubating in the name, incubation disclaimer etc I don't see that the
> IPMC necessarily needs to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
We have 46 podlings honorably striving to become Apache projects, but they are
not yet Apache projects, they are "incubating". If they don't like that
distinction, they should hurry up and graduate.
Measures which blur the distinction between podlings and TLPs and make life in
the Incubator too comfortable are counterproductive. Incubation should be
rigorous and short.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org>.
I seem to remember that INFRA used to do redirects but decided to stop
doing them because it made the transition to TLP easier for podlings post
graduation because their "final" URL was active from as soon as they start
(assuming they don't name change during incubation)
Pretty much any of the current crop of podlings can be resolved via
podling.apache.org AFAICT
e.g.
http://eagle.apache.org
This does look to be at odds with the branding requirements but provided
that the podling is following other requirements e.g. clear use of
Incubating in the name, incubation disclaimer etc I don't see that the
IPMC necessarily needs to continue enforcing the subdomain requirement?
Rob
On 01/12/2015 07:21, "Sergio Fernández" <se...@redlink.co>
wrote:
>They used to have a redirects. But you' re right, looks like not
>anymore...
>So we should ask INFRA to get a 307 resolving the TLP domains.
>
>On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Greets,
>>
>> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
>>
>> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
>> http://podling.apache.org
>>
>> See for example:
>>
>> http://systemml.apache.org/
>> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
>>
>> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
>> following pages:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
>>
>> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
>>
>> Marvin Humphrey
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Sergio Fernández
>Partner Technology Manager
>Redlink GmbH
>m: +43 6602747925
>e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
>w: http://redlink.co
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Sergio Fernández <se...@redlink.co>.
They used to have a redirects. But you' re right, looks like not anymore...
So we should ask INFRA to get a 307 resolving the TLP domains.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> Greets,
>
> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
>
> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
> http://podling.apache.org
>
> See for example:
>
> http://systemml.apache.org/
> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
> http://mynewt.apache.org/
> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
>
> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
> following pages:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
>
> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Sergio Fernández
Partner Technology Manager
Redlink GmbH
m: +43 6602747925
e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
w: http://redlink.co
Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>.
Yes, INFRA arguments are completely valid. But rather than the DNS
resolution of the domains, I think Marvin was asking how domains are
handled at the HTTP level.
Niall
Thanks for digging up the reference
I knew INFRA had made the change for a reason but couldn't remember the
reasoning
Rob
On 01/12/2015 16:18, "Niall Pemberton" <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Greets,
>>
>> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
>>
>> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
>> http://podling.apache.org
>>
>> See for example:
>>
>> http://systemml.apache.org/
>> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
>>
>> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
>> following pages:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
>>
>>
>See http://markmail.org/message/l4khtbfgq7b72hsw
>
>Niall
>
>
>> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
>>
>> Marvin Humphrey
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org>.
Niall
Thanks for digging up the reference
I knew INFRA had made the change for a reason but couldn't remember the
reasoning
Rob
On 01/12/2015 16:18, "Niall Pemberton" <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Greets,
>>
>> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
>>
>> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
>> http://podling.apache.org
>>
>> See for example:
>>
>> http://systemml.apache.org/
>> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.apache.org/
>> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
>>
>> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
>> following pages:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
>>
>>
>See http://markmail.org/message/l4khtbfgq7b72hsw
>
>Niall
>
>
>> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
>>
>> Marvin Humphrey
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Websites at podling.apache.org
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> Greets,
>
> It seems that podling websites are available at both these URL patterns:
>
> http://podling.incubator.apache.org
> http://podling.apache.org
>
> See for example:
>
> http://systemml.apache.org/
> http://systemml.incubator.apache.org/
> http://mynewt.apache.org/
> http://mynewt.incubator.apache.org/
>
> I believe that resolving podling.apache.org is a mistake based on the
> following pages:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding
>
>
See http://markmail.org/message/l4khtbfgq7b72hsw
Niall
> Shall we ask Infra to install 302 redirects?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>