RE: Some concerns - bigtop 3.0.0

[Marc Hoppins <ma...@eset.com>]

The latest from Ambari is that the project has not been moved to 'attic'. I assume this means that further development will not happen.  How will this affect BIGTOP development, is this project also 'dead'?

-----Original Message-----
From: Luca Toscano <to...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 4:40 PM
To: user@bigtop.apache.org
Subject: Re: Some concerns - bigtop 3.0.0

EXTERNAL

Hi Marc!

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 1:17 PM Marc Hoppins <ma...@eset.com> wrote:

> After Jan31 2022, Docker is not free for businesses with either >=250 employees or >=$10M of business. This creates a bit of a problem with trying to build/develop open source software now reliant on paid dependencies.

My understanding is that Docker Engine will stay free, meanwhile for big organizations Docker Desktop will introduce a new paid license. It is not ideal, Windows and Mac users basically need Docker Desktop to rebuild packages, meanwhile Linux users will likely keep going without problems[1].
Docker Desktop seems to remain free for open-source communities and personal use, that is a good sign. On the practical side, building Apache Bigtop packages should be possible in most cases without any change, but I agree that the true meaning of open-source tool/software may clash with the concept of specific service agreements (like paying in certain situations). For the moment there seems to be no rush to move away from Docker, but we should keep an eye on how things evolve and possibly explore other possibilities.
This is my understanding, I may miss something or be very wrong, in case let me know :)

> The bigtop jira page contains a reference to dropping support for Ubuntu 16.04. The build.gradle file makes no mention of any Ubuntu other than 16.04.

The docs in build.gradle are definitely old, we should update them, I opened https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BIGTOP-3633 to track the problem.

> The docs state “You CANNOT use root to complete the build…” but I tried a regular user build (./gradlew hadoop-pkg-ind -POS=ubuntu-20.04) and it failed almost immediately.

The docs that you mention is
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/BIGTOP/Quickstart+Guide%3A+Bigtop+Integration+Test+Framework+2.0
right (just to be on the same page). It probably needs an update as well :)

> Bigtop-ambari-mpack – which resolves down to bgtp-ambari-mpack (I think from Matt Andruff), and then, further down the structure, src/main/resources/stacks/BGTP/1.0/repos, seems to be poking about at http://repos.bigtop.apache.org/releases/1.5.0/ubuntu/18.04. Is this a workaround somehow for 20.04?

Very ignorant about mpack, I'll let others answer!

Thanks a lot for the report,

Luca

--
[1] https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/binaries/
[2] https://www.docker.com/pricing

Re: Some concerns - bigtop 3.0.0

[Luca Toscano <to...@gmail.com>]

 Hi Marc,

Ambari is only a part of the Bigtop distribution, so the project is not dead :)

Luca

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 1:28 PM Marc Hoppins <ma...@eset.com> wrote:
>
> The latest from Ambari is that the project has not been moved to 'attic'. I assume this means that further development will not happen.  How will this affect BIGTOP development, is this project also 'dead'?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luca Toscano <to...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 4:40 PM
> To: user@bigtop.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Some concerns - bigtop 3.0.0
>
> EXTERNAL
>
> Hi Marc!
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 1:17 PM Marc Hoppins <ma...@eset.com> wrote:
>
> > After Jan31 2022, Docker is not free for businesses with either >=250 employees or >=$10M of business. This creates a bit of a problem with trying to build/develop open source software now reliant on paid dependencies.
>
> My understanding is that Docker Engine will stay free, meanwhile for big organizations Docker Desktop will introduce a new paid license. It is not ideal, Windows and Mac users basically need Docker Desktop to rebuild packages, meanwhile Linux users will likely keep going without problems[1].
> Docker Desktop seems to remain free for open-source communities and personal use, that is a good sign. On the practical side, building Apache Bigtop packages should be possible in most cases without any change, but I agree that the true meaning of open-source tool/software may clash with the concept of specific service agreements (like paying in certain situations). For the moment there seems to be no rush to move away from Docker, but we should keep an eye on how things evolve and possibly explore other possibilities.
> This is my understanding, I may miss something or be very wrong, in case let me know :)
>
> > The bigtop jira page contains a reference to dropping support for Ubuntu 16.04. The build.gradle file makes no mention of any Ubuntu other than 16.04.
>
> The docs in build.gradle are definitely old, we should update them, I opened https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BIGTOP-3633 to track the problem.
>
> > The docs state “You CANNOT use root to complete the build…” but I tried a regular user build (./gradlew hadoop-pkg-ind -POS=ubuntu-20.04) and it failed almost immediately.
>
> The docs that you mention is
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/BIGTOP/Quickstart+Guide%3A+Bigtop+Integration+Test+Framework+2.0
> right (just to be on the same page). It probably needs an update as well :)
>
> > Bigtop-ambari-mpack – which resolves down to bgtp-ambari-mpack (I think from Matt Andruff), and then, further down the structure, src/main/resources/stacks/BGTP/1.0/repos, seems to be poking about at http://repos.bigtop.apache.org/releases/1.5.0/ubuntu/18.04. Is this a workaround somehow for 20.04?
>
> Very ignorant about mpack, I'll let others answer!
>
> Thanks a lot for the report,
>
> Luca
>
> --
> [1] https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/binaries/
> [2] https://www.docker.com/pricing