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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart <Ed...@eng.sun.com> on 2000/02/09 07:43:31 UTC
CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
JSR-052 and JSR-053 were approved today. The next stage in the Java
Community Process (JCP), is the CAll For Experts (CAFE) for these two
JSRs.
The JCP process is described at
http://java.sun.com/jcp
To submit an expert you will need to become a "participant", which means
signing an agreement (JSPA). As with most of the JCP, the JSPA is based
on past experience and its main goal is to enable the practical exchange
of information within the expert group.
The current versions of the Reference Implementation and Tests for
Servlet and JSP specifications (Servlet 2.2 and JSP 1.1) are available
under Apache license, and this will also be true for the next versions
covered by JSR-053. The arrangement for JSR-052 will be made by the
expert group once formed.
We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual fee",
let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE period
closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
- The Servlet and JSP team at Sun.
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart <Ed...@eng.sun.com>.
[disclaimer: I am no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV]
The individual fee is pretty low (I hear $100) so it should not be (too)
much of an issue, but I hear what you are saying. The fee is to be a
"participant", which means you can ask to be in an expert group and you
get an extra early peek into specs; the intention of the fee is to help
cover the costs to run the JCP. It is not "per JSR" but a "per
participant"; I believe it is anual.
The agreement with apache was regarding RI and tests, my understanding
of the Jakarta license is that Sun is puting the RI and the tests under
apache license, which means Sun cannot charge for them. That seems
quite reasonable.
Hope this helps,
- eduard/o
Geoff Soutter wrote:
>
> Hi Eduardo,
>
> Thanks for taking up the torch for us individual contributors; good luck,
> and let us know how you go! I recently had to decline invitation to another
> JSR on the basis of cost: I don't have $US2k burning a hole in my pocket!
>
> Anyway, if you want my opinion, I reckon that individual participation ought
> to be _free_.
>
> In fact, IMHO (!), anything else would be an insult to the whole apache
> group, although I'm sure there are others around in a much better position
> to make that claim than myself.
>
> I mean, how can we develop the reference implemenation for sun for free, and
> sun asks us to pay $$$ to contribute our ideas back?
>
> Hmm, thinking about it, was this issue covered when tomcat/jakarta was set
> up? Any comments people?
>
> geoff
>
> "Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart" <Ed...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I know the JSPA does not list the individual fee. Last week I
> > discovered that and I am still trying to locate the responsible party
> > who can either change this formally in the document, or explain to me
> > why this is not listed. But the person who runs the JCP process has
> > told me this fee category exists. Additionally, please let me know if
> > the fees are undue hardship and need a waiver; clearly we cannot just do
> > that for everybody but that mechanism is also available.
> >
> > Sorry the JSPA is not clearer, I am frustated with that too.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > - eduard/o
> >
> > Geoff Soutter wrote:
> > >
> > > > We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
> > > > There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual
> fee",
> > > > let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE
> period
> > > > closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
> > >
> > > I checked the PDF "agreement" doc for another JSR the other day:
> > >
> > > http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
> > >
> > > it's USD5000 for companies and USD2000 for non-profit, there doesn't
> appear
> > > to be an individual fee.
> > >
> > > we pay sun to give it our ideas: must be the "new economy" :-)
> > >
> > > geoff
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Geoff Soutter <ge...@whitewolf.com.au>.
"Serge Knystautas" <se...@lokitech.com> wrote:
> What about the idea of the apache group putting some advertising so it
> can pay to participate? I see freshmeat.net is running some ads, as is
> slashdot.org and some other news sites. Okay, they're definitely not
> the same organization, but they are pushing the same open source
> concepts. Or what about seeking sponsorship from some companies...
> several organizations devote time and energy to the apache cause...
> maybe they can devote some money as well (yes we would be possible
> interested in a partial sponsorship). Is it $2k *per* JSR or just a one
> time joining fee?
I'm sure sun will waive the fee for apache if the appropriate people do some
hasseling, however, thats not really my point, I reckon in general
individiuals should be able to participate for free.
as for the costs, put your legal hat on and check the below:
> > > > http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
geoff
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
What about the idea of the apache group putting some advertising so it
can pay to participate? I see freshmeat.net is running some ads, as is
slashdot.org and some other news sites. Okay, they're definitely not
the same organization, but they are pushing the same open source
concepts. Or what about seeking sponsorship from some companies...
several organizations devote time and energy to the apache cause...
maybe they can devote some money as well (yes we would be possible
interested in a partial sponsorship). Is it $2k *per* JSR or just a one
time joining fee?
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies
http://www.lokitech.com/
Geoff Soutter wrote:
>
> Hi Eduardo,
>
> Thanks for taking up the torch for us individual contributors; good luck,
> and let us know how you go! I recently had to decline invitation to another
> JSR on the basis of cost: I don't have $US2k burning a hole in my pocket!
>
> Anyway, if you want my opinion, I reckon that individual participation ought
> to be _free_.
>
> In fact, IMHO (!), anything else would be an insult to the whole apache
> group, although I'm sure there are others around in a much better position
> to make that claim than myself.
>
> I mean, how can we develop the reference implemenation for sun for free, and
> sun asks us to pay $$$ to contribute our ideas back?
>
> Hmm, thinking about it, was this issue covered when tomcat/jakarta was set
> up? Any comments people?
>
> geoff
>
> "Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart" <Ed...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I know the JSPA does not list the individual fee. Last week I
> > discovered that and I am still trying to locate the responsible party
> > who can either change this formally in the document, or explain to me
> > why this is not listed. But the person who runs the JCP process has
> > told me this fee category exists. Additionally, please let me know if
> > the fees are undue hardship and need a waiver; clearly we cannot just do
> > that for everybody but that mechanism is also available.
> >
> > Sorry the JSPA is not clearer, I am frustated with that too.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > - eduard/o
> >
> > Geoff Soutter wrote:
> > >
> > > > We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
> > > > There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual
> fee",
> > > > let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE
> period
> > > > closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
> > >
> > > I checked the PDF "agreement" doc for another JSR the other day:
> > >
> > > http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
> > >
> > > it's USD5000 for companies and USD2000 for non-profit, there doesn't
> appear
> > > to be an individual fee.
> > >
> > > we pay sun to give it our ideas: must be the "new economy" :-)
> > >
> > > geoff
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Geoff Soutter <ge...@whitewolf.com.au>.
Hi Eduardo,
Thanks for taking up the torch for us individual contributors; good luck,
and let us know how you go! I recently had to decline invitation to another
JSR on the basis of cost: I don't have $US2k burning a hole in my pocket!
Anyway, if you want my opinion, I reckon that individual participation ought
to be _free_.
In fact, IMHO (!), anything else would be an insult to the whole apache
group, although I'm sure there are others around in a much better position
to make that claim than myself.
I mean, how can we develop the reference implemenation for sun for free, and
sun asks us to pay $$$ to contribute our ideas back?
Hmm, thinking about it, was this issue covered when tomcat/jakarta was set
up? Any comments people?
geoff
"Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart" <Ed...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
> Yes, I know the JSPA does not list the individual fee. Last week I
> discovered that and I am still trying to locate the responsible party
> who can either change this formally in the document, or explain to me
> why this is not listed. But the person who runs the JCP process has
> told me this fee category exists. Additionally, please let me know if
> the fees are undue hardship and need a waiver; clearly we cannot just do
> that for everybody but that mechanism is also available.
>
> Sorry the JSPA is not clearer, I am frustated with that too.
>
> Hope this helps,
> - eduard/o
>
> Geoff Soutter wrote:
> >
> > > We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
> > > There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual
fee",
> > > let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE
period
> > > closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
> >
> > I checked the PDF "agreement" doc for another JSR the other day:
> >
> > http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
> >
> > it's USD5000 for companies and USD2000 for non-profit, there doesn't
appear
> > to be an individual fee.
> >
> > we pay sun to give it our ideas: must be the "new economy" :-)
> >
> > geoff
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart <Ed...@eng.sun.com>.
Yes, I know the JSPA does not list the individual fee. Last week I
discovered that and I am still trying to locate the responsible party
who can either change this formally in the document, or explain to me
why this is not listed. But the person who runs the JCP process has
told me this fee category exists. Additionally, please let me know if
the fees are undue hardship and need a waiver; clearly we cannot just do
that for everybody but that mechanism is also available.
Sorry the JSPA is not clearer, I am frustated with that too.
Hope this helps,
- eduard/o
Geoff Soutter wrote:
>
> > We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
> > There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual fee",
> > let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE period
> > closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
>
> I checked the PDF "agreement" doc for another JSR the other day:
>
> http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
>
> it's USD5000 for companies and USD2000 for non-profit, there doesn't appear
> to be an individual fee.
>
> we pay sun to give it our ideas: must be the "new economy" :-)
>
> geoff
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: CAFE for Servlet and JSP expert groups
Posted by Geoff Soutter <ge...@whitewolf.com.au>.
> We encourage interested parties to submit names for the expert group.
> There is a participant fee; I am told there is also an "individual fee",
> let me (pelegri@eng.sun.com) know if you want details. The CAFE period
> closes 9am PST, Tuesday, February 22nd.
I checked the PDF "agreement" doc for another JSR the other day:
http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/JSPA.pdf
it's USD5000 for companies and USD2000 for non-profit, there doesn't appear
to be an individual fee.
we pay sun to give it our ideas: must be the "new economy" :-)
geoff