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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> on 2012/05/08 22:18:47 UTC
Troll warning
Just another warning to not feed the trolls. Now that AOOo 3.4
has been announced, we are starting to see some really untoward
behavior by some of the more vocal LO people.
Just let them go... the world will see that it's those people
who are fighting against cooperation between LO and AOOo and,
hopefully, wiser and saner minds will prevail.
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Tim Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
Oh dear, this is starting to feel like meta-trolling. Let's move on,
please....
--tim
On Tuesday, May 8, 2012, Simon Phipps wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On May 8, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 8 May 2012, at 21:18, wrote:
> > >
> > >> Just another warning to not feed the trolls. Now that AOOo 3.4
> > >> has been announced, we are starting to see some really untoward
> > >> behavior by some of the more vocal LO people.
> > >>
> > >> Just let them go... the world will see that it's those people
> > >> who are fighting against cooperation between LO and AOOo and,
> > >> hopefully, wiser and saner minds will prevail.
> > >
> > > Do you have specifics, Jim? I've not seen any, just messages of
> > congratulations[1]. If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF
> > Membership Committee takes a look.
> >
> > Yes, I do. But I'd prefer to not share them. All one needs to
> > do is simply spend a minute on GOOG.
> >
>
> I did, and I found nothing that was even as questionable as the stuff you
> dismissed. Perhaps you can send me the searches you are using?
>
> S.
>
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
> On May 8, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> >
> > On 8 May 2012, at 21:18, wrote:
> >
> >> Just another warning to not feed the trolls. Now that AOOo 3.4
> >> has been announced, we are starting to see some really untoward
> >> behavior by some of the more vocal LO people.
> >>
> >> Just let them go... the world will see that it's those people
> >> who are fighting against cooperation between LO and AOOo and,
> >> hopefully, wiser and saner minds will prevail.
> >
> > Do you have specifics, Jim? I've not seen any, just messages of
> congratulations[1]. If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF
> Membership Committee takes a look.
>
> Yes, I do. But I'd prefer to not share them. All one needs to
> do is simply spend a minute on GOOG.
>
I did, and I found nothing that was even as questionable as the stuff you
dismissed. Perhaps you can send me the searches you are using?
S.
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On May 8, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 8 May 2012, at 21:18, wrote:
>
>> Just another warning to not feed the trolls. Now that AOOo 3.4
>> has been announced, we are starting to see some really untoward
>> behavior by some of the more vocal LO people.
>>
>> Just let them go... the world will see that it's those people
>> who are fighting against cooperation between LO and AOOo and,
>> hopefully, wiser and saner minds will prevail.
>
> Do you have specifics, Jim? I've not seen any, just messages of congratulations[1]. If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF Membership Committee takes a look.
Yes, I do. But I'd prefer to not share them. All one needs to
do is simply spend a minute on GOOG.
>
> I'm sure you're already aware, but there's is a problem in the other direction[2] that I'm sure you'll want to act on.
Yes, I will.... just searching where he specifically states that he's
saying such with his AOOo hat on and where, exactly, he is being troll-like.
Maybe he is simply trying to prevent his work from being
mis-represented. Or are you objecting to him exercising his
freedom in choosing how his info can be used?
Nah, it couldn't be the latter, since that would imply that
you would be more supportive of a codebase, such as LO, being
under a more permissive license, like maybe the ALv2, so anyone
and everyone could use it as they wish... like how AOOo is, and
LO isn't.
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> here are a small number of active, vocal and
> negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
> the work we do here. They make a lot of noise, but 90% of their FUD
> just expired when AOO 3.4 was released. And the remainder of their
> FUD will expire in a week or two when Symphony is contributed to
> Apache. So it is almost not worth arguing with them at this point,
> since they are "still fighting the last war". We need to move on, and
> talk about AOO 4.0, and the things that will really excite our users.
>
Agree wholeheartedly.
FC
Re: Troll warning
Posted by imacat <im...@mail.imacat.idv.tw>.
Actually, I heard people very excited, talking about the release of
Apache OpenOffice 3.4. I suppose I do not need to care about
LibreOffice anymore. Someone asked me the question: "What about
LibreOffice?" I have nothing to answer. I think it reveals the
pressure on the LibreOffice side.
As I said, the only real problem we had was that we have no release
yet. Once we have our first release, the problem is gone.
On 2012/05/09 23:18, Jim Jagielski said:
>
> On May 9, 2012, at 11:03 AM, drew wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 10:49 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> There are a small number of active, vocal and
>>> negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
>>> the work we do here.
>>
>> That cuts both ways.
>
> That's true... In general though, I've found that if people
> mention OpenOffice, that many LO-related people will immediately
> jump in and turn the conversation towards LO (for example,
> someone will post or tweet something about OpenOffice and
> they will immediately reply "Hey, what about LibreOffice"),
> but I don't see nearly that amount of the reverse behavior.
>
> I guess partly that's to be expected...
--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <im...@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
Re: Troll warning
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 13:01 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> > The important thing is to maintain a generosity towards others and not to be drawn into argument with them about the pros and cons of their/our choices. The situation is likely to proceed to one of two directions: either the codebases and the features start to diverge dramatically, in which case they move away and any other product becomes sufficiently different that there need be no conflict, or there is some for of reconcilliation/amalgamation, in which case all have to work together, so the less aggravation that has arisen before that, the better.
> >
> > It is a generous thing to be able to agree to differ.
> >
>
> But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
> For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
> he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
> misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"? I'm
> happy to be generous when it is a matter of taste, Coke versus Pepsi
> or whatever. But when someone is denying our right to exist and
> taking active steps to cause our votes to fail, etc., then I think
> that is something else.
>
> We're called on to be generous and professional. We're not called on
> to be martyrs.
True - and you have made your point, IMO, a couple of times now -
regarding that piece of email. There are no martyrs here my friend.
//drew
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 19 May 2012 01:39, imacat <im...@mail.imacat.idv.tw> wrote:
> I figured it is nonsense, and not worthy of my time.
> If I do have spare time I would rather help the local LibreOffice
> community than fight with nonsense from the troll. So I ignored it.
> Period.
>
+1.
Just accept the fact that headlines that stir up emotion are the bread and
butter of journalism. It's going to happen time and time again.
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Troll warning
Posted by imacat <im...@mail.imacat.idv.tw>.
On 2012/05/10 01:01, Rob Weir said:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
>> The important thing is to maintain a generosity towards others and not to be drawn into argument with them about the pros and cons of their/our choices. The situation is likely to proceed to one of two directions: either the codebases and the features start to diverge dramatically, in which case they move away and any other product becomes sufficiently different that there need be no conflict, or there is some for of reconcilliation/amalgamation, in which case all have to work together, so the less aggravation that has arisen before that, the better.
>> It is a generous thing to be able to agree to differ.
>
> But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
> For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
> he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
> misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"? I'm
> happy to be generous when it is a matter of taste, Coke versus Pepsi
> or whatever. But when someone is denying our right to exist and
> taking active steps to cause our votes to fail, etc., then I think
> that is something else.
Well, reading through this thread, I found I got the same nonsense,
from a leader of a forked project. For me it is always OK to fork, from
either OpenOffice.org or Apache OpenOffice. I sincerely wish them to
grow strong, whether they are LibreOffice, OOo4Kids, BrOffice, or
anything else. Together we enrich the whole ecosystem. That's why I
(and many people here) help our local Taiwan LibreOffice community, too,
as much as I can. I figured it is nonsense, and not worthy of my time.
If I do have spare time I would rather help the local LibreOffice
community than fight with nonsense from the troll. So I ignored it.
Period.
--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <im...@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Wed, 9 May 2012 13:01:19 -0400
Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> > The important thing is to maintain a generosity towards others and not to be drawn into argument with them about the pros and cons of their/our choices. The situation is likely to proceed to one of two directions: either the codebases and the features start to diverge dramatically, in which case they move away and any other product becomes sufficiently different that there need be no conflict, or there is some for of reconcilliation/amalgamation, in which case all have to work together, so the less aggravation that has arisen before that, the better.
> >
> > It is a generous thing to be able to agree to differ.
> >
>
> But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
> For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
> he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
> misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"? I'm
> happy to be generous when it is a matter of taste, Coke versus Pepsi
> or whatever. But when someone is denying our right to exist and
> taking active steps to cause our votes to fail, etc., then I think
> that is something else.
>
> We're called on to be generous and professional. We're not called on
> to be martyrs.
>
> -Rob
You simply reply "You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong!" and walk away. If he is obstructive/agressive on list, he should be banned.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
>>> Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
>>>
>>
>> You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday.
>
> I too laughed at this.
>
> However, once I stopped laughing I read the
> article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well
> balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It
It tosses together sound bites of opposing views in order to give a
heightened sense of conflict. Add a provocative title and it is ready
to serve up to a hungry public.
A boxing match is "balanced" as well, but it is also based on conflict.
Personally I'd rather read a full-length opinion piece, thought out,
by a LO supporter than an article cobbled together from Slashdot
comments. Other's opinions may vary. There is certainly an eager
market for tabloid journalism, even in open source. But where is the
open source version of The Economist?
-Rob
> gives space to both the "LO" has won and the "AOO" will accelerate
> innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that
> innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play.
>
> Ross
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Wolf Halton <wo...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
> > >> Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
> > >>
> > >
> > > You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday.
> >
> > I too laughed at this.
> >
> > However, once I stopped laughing I read the
> > article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well
> > balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It
> > gives space to both the "LO" has won and the "AOO" will accelerate
> > innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that
> > innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play.
> >
> > Ross
> >
>
> I disagree -- I don't find it balanced at all! It's just one rant after
> another. Not an article really, a collection of (mostly) negative sound
> bites...and to what end? So many ridiculous statements, by folks with more
> emotion than any real business acumen. I could list a few of them and go
> into my own rant, but I'll pass....
>
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
> -- Mark Twain
>
Re Troll's Bane:
Don't you have to value their opinion before it can hurt your feelings?
--No, that is pretty cynical
Maybe this situation is a little like having a teenager rebelling against
their family. Open Office has the far better market penetration and
name-recognition. All we have to do is be calm produce announcements about
hitting the 1,000,000-mark in downloads to roll over the mean-spirited
people who want to rant against AOO. When my teenagers were rebelling, they
told me all the time what an awful mean, stupid person I was. I maintained
my temper (most of the time) and after a while they stopped rebelling.
Most of the people who use LO or AOO are oblivious to any contention and
really don't have a negative opinion about any other open-source office
suite.
-Wolf
--
This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
Open-Source Software in Libraries - http://FOSS4Lib.org
Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
Apache Open Office Developer wolfhalton@apache.org
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
> >> Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
> >>
> >
> > You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday.
>
> I too laughed at this.
>
> However, once I stopped laughing I read the
> article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well
> balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It
> gives space to both the "LO" has won and the "AOO" will accelerate
> innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that
> innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play.
>
> Ross
>
I disagree -- I don't find it balanced at all! It's just one rant after
another. Not an article really, a collection of (mostly) negative sound
bites...and to what end? So many ridiculous statements, by folks with more
emotion than any real business acumen. I could list a few of them and go
into my own rant, but I'll pass....
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
-- Mark Twain
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
>> Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
>>
>
> You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday.
I too laughed at this.
However, once I stopped laughing I read the
article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well
balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It
gives space to both the "LO" has won and the "AOO" will accelerate
innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that
innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play.
Ross
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
> Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
>
You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday.
FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary
act
- George Orwell
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 2:38 AM, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
>> For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
>> he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
>> misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"?
>>
>
> Speaking of which, this is interesting. I wonder who's behind so many RTs
> of that ugly article.
>
> https://twitter.com/#!/search/a%20tale%20of%20two%20suites
>
Conflict sells news stories. "OpenOffice and LibreOffice volunteers
work together on Community Support Forums" will never make a new
story. But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National
Anthem" will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times.
-Rob
> FC
> PS: Maybe it was deja-vu, but I'd swear I've seen that headline on twitter
> some months ago. I wonder if the article was re-published after minor
> editing, or if I'm congusing it with a previous article by the same author,
> regurgitating the same arguments...
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
> For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
> he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
> misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"?
>
Speaking of which, this is interesting. I wonder who's behind so many RTs
of that ugly article.
https://twitter.com/#!/search/a%20tale%20of%20two%20suites
FC
PS: Maybe it was deja-vu, but I'd swear I've seen that headline on twitter
some months ago. I wonder if the article was re-published after minor
editing, or if I'm congusing it with a previous article by the same author,
regurgitating the same arguments...
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> The important thing is to maintain a generosity towards others and not to be drawn into argument with them about the pros and cons of their/our choices. The situation is likely to proceed to one of two directions: either the codebases and the features start to diverge dramatically, in which case they move away and any other product becomes sufficiently different that there need be no conflict, or there is some for of reconcilliation/amalgamation, in which case all have to work together, so the less aggravation that has arisen before that, the better.
>
> It is a generous thing to be able to agree to differ.
>
But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all?
For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that
he would like us to fail and that he wants to "put us out of our
misery", then do we treat that as a mere "difference of opinion"? I'm
happy to be generous when it is a matter of taste, Coke versus Pepsi
or whatever. But when someone is denying our right to exist and
taking active steps to cause our votes to fail, etc., then I think
that is something else.
We're called on to be generous and professional. We're not called on
to be martyrs.
-Rob
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
The important thing is to maintain a generosity towards others and not to be drawn into argument with them about the pros and cons of their/our choices. The situation is likely to proceed to one of two directions: either the codebases and the features start to diverge dramatically, in which case they move away and any other product becomes sufficiently different that there need be no conflict, or there is some for of reconcilliation/amalgamation, in which case all have to work together, so the less aggravation that has arisen before that, the better.
It is a generous thing to be able to agree to differ.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: Troll warning
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 11:18 -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> On May 9, 2012, at 11:03 AM, drew wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 10:49 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> There are a small number of active, vocal and
> >> negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
> >> the work we do here.
> >
> > That cuts both ways.
>
> That's true... In general though, I've found that if people
> mention OpenOffice, that many LO-related people will immediately
> jump in and turn the conversation towards LO (for example,
> someone will post or tweet something about OpenOffice and
> they will immediately reply "Hey, what about LibreOffice"),
> but I don't see nearly that amount of the reverse behavior.
>
> I guess partly that's to be expected...
>
Hi Jim
IMO 'back biting', is what I would call this, is easily the most
destructive behavior that a person can partake in, eroding civility
amongst voluntary associations, if not kept in check.
It really is something that we all need to watch out for, directly.
I will try to refrain myself, the only person I can actually control ;)
and I think most of the folks I talk with on a regular basis on this
list and across the different projects (L&O) lists do also - there are
lots of 'extended associates', users, that will always do some of what
you describe, it will likely even increase from them here over the short
run, my guess anyway, but I think the core folks will not.
On the other hand, there are two successful groups of people here, L and
O, and there lots of Alpha's required to form successful groups on the
scale of these groups...
//drew
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On May 9, 2012, at 11:03 AM, drew wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 10:49 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> There are a small number of active, vocal and
>> negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
>> the work we do here.
>
> That cuts both ways.
That's true... In general though, I've found that if people
mention OpenOffice, that many LO-related people will immediately
jump in and turn the conversation towards LO (for example,
someone will post or tweet something about OpenOffice and
they will immediately reply "Hey, what about LibreOffice"),
but I don't see nearly that amount of the reverse behavior.
I guess partly that's to be expected...
Re: Troll warning
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 10:49 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
> >> If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF Membership Committee takes a look.
> >
> > What are LO advocates doing on this list?. Just curious....
> >
> > http://webmink.com/2012/02/19/libreoffice-video/
> >
> > Where it says "OpenOffice's succesor, LibreOffice...."
> >
> > Let me get this straight, the forkers destroyed StarOffice, spit
> > Oracle in the face then invited them for dinner (to join TDF), then
> > they get upset that Oracle does not comply with their demands, they
> > nevertheless go ahead with their fork, and when OpenOffice is donated
> > to Apache and continues having the brand recognition, the mind share
> > and the majority of downloads on the Windows platform, are we supposed
> > to play nice and friendly with people who can't promote their fork
> > without comparing themselves to Apache OO and some even spread lies
> > all the time?
> >
>
> Well, yes. We're supposed to be nice, even when others are spreading
> FUD and trying to derail the project.
>
> Of course, none of our saints, and even fewer of us are martyrs, so
> individually there is only so much abuse anyone of us is going to put
> up with. But as a project we must remain open and welcoming to all,
> especially to LibreOffice volunteers.
>
> That doesn't mean we need to agree with the FUD, or let misstatements
> go unaddressed. It just means we need to handle it in a calm,
> professional, non-argumentative way. For example, we can collect the
> top-10 erroneous statements about AOO on the wiki and prepare a blog
> post to respond to them.
>
> And this is not just about being "nice". This is also the most
> pragmatic thing to do. There are a small number of active, vocal and
> negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
> the work we do here.
That cuts both ways.
<snip>
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
>> If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF Membership Committee takes a look.
>
> What are LO advocates doing on this list?. Just curious....
>
> http://webmink.com/2012/02/19/libreoffice-video/
>
> Where it says "OpenOffice's succesor, LibreOffice...."
>
> Let me get this straight, the forkers destroyed StarOffice, spit
> Oracle in the face then invited them for dinner (to join TDF), then
> they get upset that Oracle does not comply with their demands, they
> nevertheless go ahead with their fork, and when OpenOffice is donated
> to Apache and continues having the brand recognition, the mind share
> and the majority of downloads on the Windows platform, are we supposed
> to play nice and friendly with people who can't promote their fork
> without comparing themselves to Apache OO and some even spread lies
> all the time?
>
Well, yes. We're supposed to be nice, even when others are spreading
FUD and trying to derail the project.
Of course, none of our saints, and even fewer of us are martyrs, so
individually there is only so much abuse anyone of us is going to put
up with. But as a project we must remain open and welcoming to all,
especially to LibreOffice volunteers.
That doesn't mean we need to agree with the FUD, or let misstatements
go unaddressed. It just means we need to handle it in a calm,
professional, non-argumentative way. For example, we can collect the
top-10 erroneous statements about AOO on the wiki and prepare a blog
post to respond to them.
And this is not just about being "nice". This is also the most
pragmatic thing to do. There are a small number of active, vocal and
negative people at LibreOffice who like to beat up on OpenOffice and
the work we do here. They make a lot of noise, but 90% of their FUD
just expired when AOO 3.4 was released. And the remainder of their
FUD will expire in a week or two when Symphony is contributed to
Apache. So it is almost not worth arguing with them at this point,
since they are "still fighting the last war". We need to move on, and
talk about AOO 4.0, and the things that will really excite our users.
-Rob
> ZDNet and IDG pubs have as usual been playing their cards
> predictably... suddenly everyone is "anti-corporate" and "corporate
> control" of a project is evil.
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/212578/4_reasons_to_try_libreoffice.html
>
> "Oracle's apparently profit-minded actions are part of the motivation
> behind The Document Foundation's decision to fork OpenOffice, and they
> are also a good reason to choose LibreOffice instead"
>
> (if profit bad? hear, hear, someone tell Novell and Meeks!, maybe
> Novell can stop payments to Microsoft...)
>
> Glyn Moody writes a story when he decries Apache's statement about
> misinformation from the LO camp "Leaving aside the rather catty remark
> about "the unwarranted spread of misinformation", there is a crucially
> important point here. "
>
> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2011/10/libreoffice-openofficeorg-and-open-standard-office-suites/index.htm
>
> And yet, he contributes to misinformation himself, by stating on the
> same article that ""...because Apache-licensed code requires copyright
> assignment from coders, and LibreOffice doesn't."
>
> He was corrected by Shane Curcuru, and had to strikeout the whole paragraph.
>
> Another example:
>
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386963,00.asp
> "If you're already using OpenOffice.org as an office suite, you owe it
> to yourself to switch to LibreOffice. "
>
> This is what Apache has to deal with...
>
> FC
> --
> During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
> - George Orwell
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On May 9, 2012 3:25 AM, "Fernando Cassia" <fc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is what Apache has to deal with...
... and we've consistently found the best thing to do is to follow
Gandalf's lead.
Gandalf (from Tolkien's The Hobbit) lets the trolls fight amongst
themselves until the sun rises and turns them to stone. He does not argue
with them, he does not try to prove them wrong, he does not fight them. He
simply prompts them to argue amongst themselves.
This is a masterclass on how to deal with trolls.
We get on with writing code and putting it out there. The trolls will
continue to argue until the sun rises. AOO and LO will still be here and,
without the trolls, will be free to collaborate.
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
> If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF Membership Committee takes a look.
What are LO advocates doing on this list?. Just curious....
http://webmink.com/2012/02/19/libreoffice-video/
Where it says "OpenOffice's succesor, LibreOffice...."
Let me get this straight, the forkers destroyed StarOffice, spit
Oracle in the face then invited them for dinner (to join TDF), then
they get upset that Oracle does not comply with their demands, they
nevertheless go ahead with their fork, and when OpenOffice is donated
to Apache and continues having the brand recognition, the mind share
and the majority of downloads on the Windows platform, are we supposed
to play nice and friendly with people who can't promote their fork
without comparing themselves to Apache OO and some even spread lies
all the time?
ZDNet and IDG pubs have as usual been playing their cards
predictably... suddenly everyone is "anti-corporate" and "corporate
control" of a project is evil.
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/212578/4_reasons_to_try_libreoffice.html
"Oracle's apparently profit-minded actions are part of the motivation
behind The Document Foundation's decision to fork OpenOffice, and they
are also a good reason to choose LibreOffice instead"
(if profit bad? hear, hear, someone tell Novell and Meeks!, maybe
Novell can stop payments to Microsoft...)
Glyn Moody writes a story when he decries Apache's statement about
misinformation from the LO camp "Leaving aside the rather catty remark
about "the unwarranted spread of misinformation", there is a crucially
important point here. "
http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2011/10/libreoffice-openofficeorg-and-open-standard-office-suites/index.htm
And yet, he contributes to misinformation himself, by stating on the
same article that ""...because Apache-licensed code requires copyright
assignment from coders, and LibreOffice doesn't."
He was corrected by Shane Curcuru, and had to strikeout the whole paragraph.
Another example:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386963,00.asp
"If you're already using OpenOffice.org as an office suite, you owe it
to yourself to switch to LibreOffice. "
This is what Apache has to deal with...
FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
- George Orwell
Re: Troll warning
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 8 May 2012, at 21:18, wrote:
> Just another warning to not feed the trolls. Now that AOOo 3.4
> has been announced, we are starting to see some really untoward
> behavior by some of the more vocal LO people.
>
> Just let them go... the world will see that it's those people
> who are fighting against cooperation between LO and AOOo and,
> hopefully, wiser and saner minds will prevail.
Do you have specifics, Jim? I've not seen any, just messages of congratulations[1]. If you forward me links I'll make sure the TDF Membership Committee takes a look.
I'm sure you're already aware, but there's is a problem in the other direction[2] that I'm sure you'll want to act on.
Cheers,
S.
[1] https://plus.google.com/u/0/101728170107556489506/posts/Er1bhNvC1jB and ripples
[2] http://erack.org/blog/archives/19-Filhos-Infographic-of-Debian-with-license-exception-does-not-allow-use-of-TDF-or-LibreOffice.html