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Posted to users@maven.apache.org by Alexander Kriegisch <al...@kriegisch.name> on 2022/02/01 00:57:01 UTC

Re: Question for Maven Plugin developers/maintainers

I am replying to Manfred rather than to Tamás, because I am only
contributing to one plugin, and it is not using any Beanshell stuff. But
I do use Beanshell scripting in a few projects where it is difficult too
avoid, because I have not found any proper plugins to do what I need.
Examples include:

  -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
     bsh-property, in order to unpack certain classes from Java 9+ JREs,
     using the jimage executable. I am doing this in order to instrument
     same classes and then prepend them to the bootclasspath using
     '--path-module' in some situations. If Maven JMOD Plugin was not
     dead, maybe that would be an alternative. But today it is not. You
     cannot do a lot with that plugin. Besides, for the Java 8 profile
     in the same project, I use Antrun with a simple unzip task in order
     to extract the same classes from tools.jar. That is easier, no
     extra BeanShell scripting needed.

  -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
     bsh-property, in order to create a marker file after some expensive
     steps (downloading and unpacking certain dependencies in order to
     create a specific directory structure), so that in later builds a
     file-based property does not activate the same profile again,
     avoiding the downloading and unpacking in later builds. Why I am
     doing that is complicated. Basically, it is because not all the
     files I am downloading are available on Maven Central, so I cannot
     simply use the Dependency plugin.

An alternative to Beanshell would be Groovy scripting in the above
cases, but pulling in heavy Groovy stuff for a little script in projects
which otherwise do not use Groovy seems to be a bit costly.

So Beanshell as such might be dead to some people, but even I who
otherwise claims to hate scripted builds cannot avoid it sometimes,
basically because I am too lazy to write my own Maven plugins, because I
do not wish to learn how to do so. Sometimes I just want to get
something done and usually have tried 5 other ways to solve the same
problem before yielding and resorting to Beanshell inside a POM.

-- 
Alexander Kriegisch
https://scrum-master.de


Manfred Moser schrieb am 01.02.2022 05:12 (GMT +07:00):

> I think beanshell is long dead. Any plugin that uses it would be for a
> very old Maven version and would need a lot of work when upgrading. So
> we should be okay to deprecate
> 
> And in terms of ANT .. if there are any out there.. similar things
> will apply and https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
> is available as escape hatch as well.
> 
> And there is also
> https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-scripting-plugin/
> 
> So overall.. I would say we are ok to deprecate that support.
> 
> 
> Tamás Cservenák wrote on 2022-01-28 05:52 (GMT -08:00):
> 
>> We'd like to get some feedback from anyone who implemented,
>> maintained or plans to implement a Maven Plugin (Mojo):
>> 
>> Did any of you see a Maven Plugin that is NOT implemented in Java
>> (but uses Ant or Beanshell scripting)?
>> 
>> Currently implementing Maven Plugins with these scripting solutions
>> is possible, we are not aware of any uses of it. Hence, we would like
>> to deprecate support for these (naturally, based on user responses).

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Re: Question for Maven Plugin developers/maintainers

Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
= the maven-script part of https://maven.apache.org/plugin-tools/index.html

Le mardi 1 février 2022, 09:16:36 CET Tamás Cservenák a écrit :
> Howdy,
> 
> Yes, the reason for this question was to deprecate the "scripting" bit of
> maven-plugin-tools, as many of us did not see such a beast in a while....
> 
> T
> 
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 2:10 AM Manfred Moser <ma...@simpligility.com>
> 
> wrote:
> > Fair enough and good examples for using beanshell in the pom. My point was
> > mostly that there are alternatives.
> > 
> > Also from all I understand Tamás asked about implementing part of a plugin
> > in beanshell. That is what you are
> > avoiding by doing it in the POM. And if you were to implement a plugin I
> > would assume would also choose Java.
> > I know I would ;-)
> > 
> > 
> > Manfred
> > 
> > Alexander Kriegisch wrote on 2022-01-31 16:57 (GMT -08:00):
> > > I am replying to Manfred rather than to Tamás, because I am only
> > > contributing to one plugin, and it is not using any Beanshell stuff. But
> > > I do use Beanshell scripting in a few projects where it is difficult too
> > > avoid, because I have not found any proper plugins to do what I need.
> > > 
> > > Examples include:
> > >   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
> > >   
> > >      bsh-property, in order to unpack certain classes from Java 9+ JREs,
> > >      using the jimage executable. I am doing this in order to instrument
> > >      same classes and then prepend them to the bootclasspath using
> > >      '--path-module' in some situations. If Maven JMOD Plugin was not
> > >      dead, maybe that would be an alternative. But today it is not. You
> > >      cannot do a lot with that plugin. Besides, for the Java 8 profile
> > >      in the same project, I use Antrun with a simple unzip task in order
> > >      to extract the same classes from tools.jar. That is easier, no
> > >      extra BeanShell scripting needed.
> > >   
> > >   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
> > >   
> > >      bsh-property, in order to create a marker file after some expensive
> > >      steps (downloading and unpacking certain dependencies in order to
> > >      create a specific directory structure), so that in later builds a
> > >      file-based property does not activate the same profile again,
> > >      avoiding the downloading and unpacking in later builds. Why I am
> > >      doing that is complicated. Basically, it is because not all the
> > >      files I am downloading are available on Maven Central, so I cannot
> > >      simply use the Dependency plugin.
> > > 
> > > An alternative to Beanshell would be Groovy scripting in the above
> > > cases, but pulling in heavy Groovy stuff for a little script in projects
> > > which otherwise do not use Groovy seems to be a bit costly.
> > > 
> > > So Beanshell as such might be dead to some people, but even I who
> > > otherwise claims to hate scripted builds cannot avoid it sometimes,
> > > basically because I am too lazy to write my own Maven plugins, because I
> > > do not wish to learn how to do so. Sometimes I just want to get
> > > something done and usually have tried 5 other ways to solve the same
> > > problem before yielding and resorting to Beanshell inside a POM.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Alexander Kriegisch
> > > https://scrum-master.de
> > > 
> > > Manfred Moser schrieb am 01.02.2022 05:12 (GMT +07:00):
> > >> I think beanshell is long dead. Any plugin that uses it would be for a
> > >> very old Maven version and would need a lot of work when upgrading. So
> > >> we should be okay to deprecate
> > >> 
> > >> And in terms of ANT .. if there are any out there.. similar things
> > >> will apply and https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
> > >> is available as escape hatch as well.
> > >> 
> > >> And there is also
> > >> https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-scripting-plugin/
> > >> 
> > >> So overall.. I would say we are ok to deprecate that support.
> > >> 
> > >> Tamás Cservenák wrote on 2022-01-28 05:52 (GMT -08:00):
> > >>> We'd like to get some feedback from anyone who implemented,
> > >>> maintained or plans to implement a Maven Plugin (Mojo):
> > >>> 
> > >>> Did any of you see a Maven Plugin that is NOT implemented in Java
> > >>> (but uses Ant or Beanshell scripting)?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Currently implementing Maven Plugins with these scripting solutions
> > >>> is possible, we are not aware of any uses of it. Hence, we would like
> > >>> to deprecate support for these (naturally, based on user responses).
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org





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Re: Question for Maven Plugin developers/maintainers

Posted by Tamás Cservenák <ta...@cservenak.net>.
Howdy,

Yes, the reason for this question was to deprecate the "scripting" bit of
maven-plugin-tools, as many of us did not see such a beast in a while....

T

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 2:10 AM Manfred Moser <ma...@simpligility.com>
wrote:

> Fair enough and good examples for using beanshell in the pom. My point was
> mostly that there are alternatives.
>
> Also from all I understand Tamás asked about implementing part of a plugin
> in beanshell. That is what you are
> avoiding by doing it in the POM. And if you were to implement a plugin I
> would assume would also choose Java.
> I know I would ;-)
>
>
> Manfred
> Alexander Kriegisch wrote on 2022-01-31 16:57 (GMT -08:00):
>
> > I am replying to Manfred rather than to Tamás, because I am only
> > contributing to one plugin, and it is not using any Beanshell stuff. But
> > I do use Beanshell scripting in a few projects where it is difficult too
> > avoid, because I have not found any proper plugins to do what I need.
> > Examples include:
> >
> >   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
> >      bsh-property, in order to unpack certain classes from Java 9+ JREs,
> >      using the jimage executable. I am doing this in order to instrument
> >      same classes and then prepend them to the bootclasspath using
> >      '--path-module' in some situations. If Maven JMOD Plugin was not
> >      dead, maybe that would be an alternative. But today it is not. You
> >      cannot do a lot with that plugin. Besides, for the Java 8 profile
> >      in the same project, I use Antrun with a simple unzip task in order
> >      to extract the same classes from tools.jar. That is easier, no
> >      extra BeanShell scripting needed.
> >
> >   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
> >      bsh-property, in order to create a marker file after some expensive
> >      steps (downloading and unpacking certain dependencies in order to
> >      create a specific directory structure), so that in later builds a
> >      file-based property does not activate the same profile again,
> >      avoiding the downloading and unpacking in later builds. Why I am
> >      doing that is complicated. Basically, it is because not all the
> >      files I am downloading are available on Maven Central, so I cannot
> >      simply use the Dependency plugin.
> >
> > An alternative to Beanshell would be Groovy scripting in the above
> > cases, but pulling in heavy Groovy stuff for a little script in projects
> > which otherwise do not use Groovy seems to be a bit costly.
> >
> > So Beanshell as such might be dead to some people, but even I who
> > otherwise claims to hate scripted builds cannot avoid it sometimes,
> > basically because I am too lazy to write my own Maven plugins, because I
> > do not wish to learn how to do so. Sometimes I just want to get
> > something done and usually have tried 5 other ways to solve the same
> > problem before yielding and resorting to Beanshell inside a POM.
> >
> > --
> > Alexander Kriegisch
> > https://scrum-master.de
> >
> >
> > Manfred Moser schrieb am 01.02.2022 05:12 (GMT +07:00):
> >
> >> I think beanshell is long dead. Any plugin that uses it would be for a
> >> very old Maven version and would need a lot of work when upgrading. So
> >> we should be okay to deprecate
> >>
> >> And in terms of ANT .. if there are any out there.. similar things
> >> will apply and https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
> >> is available as escape hatch as well.
> >>
> >> And there is also
> >> https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-scripting-plugin/
> >>
> >> So overall.. I would say we are ok to deprecate that support.
> >>
> >>
> >> Tamás Cservenák wrote on 2022-01-28 05:52 (GMT -08:00):
> >>
> >>> We'd like to get some feedback from anyone who implemented,
> >>> maintained or plans to implement a Maven Plugin (Mojo):
> >>>
> >>> Did any of you see a Maven Plugin that is NOT implemented in Java
> >>> (but uses Ant or Beanshell scripting)?
> >>>
> >>> Currently implementing Maven Plugins with these scripting solutions
> >>> is possible, we are not aware of any uses of it. Hence, we would like
> >>> to deprecate support for these (naturally, based on user responses).
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>

Re: Question for Maven Plugin developers/maintainers

Posted by Manfred Moser <ma...@simpligility.com>.
Fair enough and good examples for using beanshell in the pom. My point was mostly that there are alternatives.

Also from all I understand Tamás asked about implementing part of a plugin in beanshell. That is what you are 
avoiding by doing it in the POM. And if you were to implement a plugin I would assume would also choose Java.
I know I would ;-) 


Manfred
Alexander Kriegisch wrote on 2022-01-31 16:57 (GMT -08:00):

> I am replying to Manfred rather than to Tamás, because I am only
> contributing to one plugin, and it is not using any Beanshell stuff. But
> I do use Beanshell scripting in a few projects where it is difficult too
> avoid, because I have not found any proper plugins to do what I need.
> Examples include:
> 
>   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
>      bsh-property, in order to unpack certain classes from Java 9+ JREs,
>      using the jimage executable. I am doing this in order to instrument
>      same classes and then prepend them to the bootclasspath using
>      '--path-module' in some situations. If Maven JMOD Plugin was not
>      dead, maybe that would be an alternative. But today it is not. You
>      cannot do a lot with that plugin. Besides, for the Java 8 profile
>      in the same project, I use Antrun with a simple unzip task in order
>      to extract the same classes from tools.jar. That is easier, no
>      extra BeanShell scripting needed.
> 
>   -- Using org.codehaus.mojo:build-helper-maven-plugin, goal
>      bsh-property, in order to create a marker file after some expensive
>      steps (downloading and unpacking certain dependencies in order to
>      create a specific directory structure), so that in later builds a
>      file-based property does not activate the same profile again,
>      avoiding the downloading and unpacking in later builds. Why I am
>      doing that is complicated. Basically, it is because not all the
>      files I am downloading are available on Maven Central, so I cannot
>      simply use the Dependency plugin.
> 
> An alternative to Beanshell would be Groovy scripting in the above
> cases, but pulling in heavy Groovy stuff for a little script in projects
> which otherwise do not use Groovy seems to be a bit costly.
> 
> So Beanshell as such might be dead to some people, but even I who
> otherwise claims to hate scripted builds cannot avoid it sometimes,
> basically because I am too lazy to write my own Maven plugins, because I
> do not wish to learn how to do so. Sometimes I just want to get
> something done and usually have tried 5 other ways to solve the same
> problem before yielding and resorting to Beanshell inside a POM.
> 
> -- 
> Alexander Kriegisch
> https://scrum-master.de
> 
> 
> Manfred Moser schrieb am 01.02.2022 05:12 (GMT +07:00):
> 
>> I think beanshell is long dead. Any plugin that uses it would be for a
>> very old Maven version and would need a lot of work when upgrading. So
>> we should be okay to deprecate
>> 
>> And in terms of ANT .. if there are any out there.. similar things
>> will apply and https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
>> is available as escape hatch as well.
>> 
>> And there is also
>> https://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-scripting-plugin/
>> 
>> So overall.. I would say we are ok to deprecate that support.
>> 
>> 
>> Tamás Cservenák wrote on 2022-01-28 05:52 (GMT -08:00):
>> 
>>> We'd like to get some feedback from anyone who implemented,
>>> maintained or plans to implement a Maven Plugin (Mojo):
>>> 
>>> Did any of you see a Maven Plugin that is NOT implemented in Java
>>> (but uses Ant or Beanshell scripting)?
>>> 
>>> Currently implementing Maven Plugins with these scripting solutions
>>> is possible, we are not aware of any uses of it. Hence, we would like
>>> to deprecate support for these (naturally, based on user responses).
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> 
> 

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